Four and a half years after our son died while in the compulsory care of Waikato DHB’s Mental Health Unit, my family got the chance to have their say as part of an independent hearings process at the Coroner’s Court.
That was four and a half years of upset, grief, anger, sleepless nights and ‘what ifs’ for our family.
That was four and a half years of fights with lawyers, protests and presentations to health and Government authorities, and spending all our spare money on our own lawyer (that part only lasted for a few months).
And it was followed by months more of the same – as a direct result of a health system that objected to being held accountable for their inaction and attempted (unsuccessfully) to get the Government to overturn the Coroner’s findings.
But, as long and painful as that time was for us, there are many families who have been – and still are – waiting longer, much longer in some cases, for their chance to tell the story of their loved ones in a Coroner’s Court.
Some families have been waiting over six or seven years for their promised Coroner’s Hearings, and in two cases mentioned in a recent media article, the families have ‘been through’ three different Coroners, and are yet to get Hearing dates.
Having a chance to speak for your dead loved one, and to put the alternative view on the care they received to that of the sham ‘internal DHB reviews’ and other medical system-mandated snow jobs, is a very important part of the grieving process. We felt enormous relief at having completed the Hearing, even well before the Coroner’s findings upheld our views.
It’s an outcome that the Ministry, and Minister, of Justice would do well to remember is one of the primary purposes of Coroners’ Hearings in suicide cases.
Unfortunately, things don’t yet seem to be moving in the right direction. Statistics from the Ministry of Justice show that the proportion of families of suicide victims waiting for hearings for more than 12 months has risen from about 30% to nearly 50% in the last five years (see graph).
These terrible delay statistics are well known to Government and its responsible Ministry of Justice arm – in the last year they have appointed eight new part-time Coroners to help cope with the workload, but at the same time have lost five full-time Coroners to retirement and other jobs – ironically the Coroner for our son’s hearing has now retired, while another was appointed as the new Suicide Prevention Office Director. They’ve stuck their finger in the dyke, but are finding the water is overflowing the flood protection wall above them!
To add insult to injury, the tax-funded institutions involved in the care of suicide victims are “lawyering up” as the Coroner in our son’s case described it, causing further delays and often massive extra legal costs for all involved. We had 4 lawyers arrayed against us – two of them QCs – but for most of the four and a half years we had to handle the case ourselves after our money ran out in no time.
On one phone conference call, my partner and I were arrayed against a QC for the Doctor responsible for our son, a QC for the Police, a medical lawyer for the DHB, a lawyer for a community care facility that had earlier been responsible for our son, a lawyer for the Coroner, and of course the Coroner himself, another lawyer. All of their holidays and other work commitments had to be co-ordinated to make anything happen, while we were often the last ones consulted, despite attempts by the Coroner’s office to be helpful.
Even though our son Nicky was a compulsory patient of the DHB when he died, the DHB twice refused to give us one cent towards our legal costs, yet spent a six-figure sum on trying to cover their backsides in the Hearing, and then to overturn the Hearing result when it wasn’t favourable towards them.
My partner Jane worked hundreds of hours to prepare materials for the Hearing, and we were extremely lucky that a good friend of the family – who happened to be an experienced QC himself, but from a distant city – helped with the final preparation and flew up to Hamilton to help with the hearing itself.
Almost all families of suicide victims are facing the same sort of legal hurdles, or worse, as they try and get a voice for their loved ones. We were lucky to get some help – most do not.
Almost all institutions involved in the mental health and legal side of theses cases are determinedly resisting change, with the honourable exception of individual Coroners and some other legal practitioners.
Minister of Justice Andrew Little, who we have a lot of time for, was reported in the media discussion as saying he might look at ‘Legal Aid’ for families in this situation – the problem with Legal Aid is that it is pathetic, because we had one and a half salaries we didn’t qualify, and even if we had, we would have been required to pay it back. And, almost by definition, if you’ve only got ‘Legal Aid’ you won’t be getting a decent lawyer anyway!
The families get their lives wrecked, and have to pay time and money for the privilege, while the ‘responsible’ authorities and their lawyers get funded to defend their system. In our case, the DHB, even though the Coroner ruled that Nicky’s death while in their care was “avoidable”, didn’t have to pay a damn thing as a result, even after their attempt to reverse the result fell over.
Justice in cases like suicides is truly not a level playing field.
The Government must recognise that, and start redressing the imbalance.
Dave Macpherson – TDB mental health blogger & Former Waikato DHB Elected Member whose son was killed by public health incompetence.
Sorry to hear about your saga of being denied what by natural law would be yours.
You say you have a lot of time for Andrew Little. I don’t. In my personal dealings with him I found him to be a liar, a coward, and to be unreliable. The last time I spoke with him he was personally insulting and made slanderous statements in public.
I put it to you that you find him as useless as Minister of Justice as he was getting elected in the city her grew up in (got in on the party list), and as useless as Minister for Justice as he was as leader of the party (gave up and handed it to Jacinda).
I think you find he will run from the truth as fast as his legs will take him, as he literally did when confronted with it several years ago.
The phrase ‘was reported in the media discussion as saying he might look at ‘Legal Aid’ sums it up. He might not.
And is what is legal aid, other than yet another rort, designed to fill the pockets of lawyers whilst failing to address any of the fundamental issues.
Pardon my cynicism but I’ve seen too much of the way these prick operate.
Dave McPherson I am so sorry to read again of the pain and suffering you and your family are going through. Instead of admitting liability or at the very least assisting you through your trauma by assisting with financial compensation the organisation that was meant to care for your son and other associated organisations are acting in a cowardly and pernicious manner designed to cover their own failings and in doing so heaping them on you and on your son. The system supports its own and continues to ride rough-shod over those who challenge it.
While it will do little to assuage your trauma and grief please remember that there are many, many people who are supporting you.
Afewknowthetruth,
I get you dislike Andrew Little. Fair enough. I not a fan myself either. He should never have been Labour leader and I’m incredulous at the fact he offered absolutely zero in the role and should have stood down at least 18 months before he finally did. His rating actually went down when John Key suddenly resigned. He robbed everyone who despised what National was doing any hope or reason to feel optimistic. His personal ambition along with his apparent belief that Labour would win by default as a result of National being voted out proved to be 100% wrong. A large % of Labour voters woke from their long slumber and started donating $$ the moment he resigned. That aside, as a politician, he “appears” to be a decent enough one.
That aside, I feel it’s grossly unfair and unreasonable to state you’ve had personal dealings with him and state he’s a liar and a coward. Nobody should be able to accuse a public figure of such reprehensible personality traits that reflect very badly on the guy both personally and professionally without offering a shred of evidence. He’s not here to defend himself so we should ask ourselves how we would feel if an anonymous person was denigrating our father, brother, son etc and attempted to add weight to their perspective by stating they’d had personal dealings with them.
Okay, jacindafan, I’ll give you the details, the evidence.
As a resident of New Plymouth, I was cycling along Vivian Street and noticed that a hut had been located behind the union building in that street, as campaign headquarters of Andre Little.
Having been a work colleague of his father, Bill, and having played bridge at the same tables as his mother, Cicely, on numerous occasions, I felt sufficient connection to seek out Andrew Andrew and question him on the crucial issues of the times we live in.
At first Andrew appeared to very interested (one might even say enthusiastic) when I pointed out New Zealand’s energy predicament -being 80% dependent on imported oil, which had already peaked in extraction and was in terminal decline. He bought a copy of the book I had written, which covered not only the energy predicament and the environmental predicament resulting from fossil fuel dependence (planetary meltdown) but also the Ponzi nature of the financial system. Andrew was so interested he wanted to meet me the following week for a follow-up.
I pointed out to him that I would be comfortable with him not mentioning the crucial issues of our times during the campaigning but if he were to become an MP and STILL NOT DEAL WITH THE CRUCIAL ISSUES, he would be a ‘marked man’.
The follow-up meeting took place and he was ‘all ears’. A meeting for the follwoing week was arranged. I turned up be he didn’t. He apologised, and said he would be there the following week at the appointed time: I turned up but he failed to turn up!
I wrote in the Labour party campaign book: If you are so unreliable BEFORE THE ELECTION [when you are seeking community approval and votes], what are you going to be like AFTER THE ELECTION [when you no longer need to us]? His PA gave me a sour look but had to acceopt my point was perfectly valid.
Now you might say it means nothing, but, despite his mother being a player at the club, no one at the bridge club had a good word to say about Andrew Little.
Having been let down by Andrew twice in as many weeks, the next tine I saw him [on the camaign trail] I asked in a loud voice “You know that the oil supply has peaked, you know we are experiencing planetary meltdown, and you know he banking system is a Ponzi scheme. So why are you lying to the people?”
He ran away -literally- and as he ran I said: “Running from the truth Andrew?”
The next time I saw him I asked: “Still lying to the people, Andrew?” That elicited no response, other than a sour face.
Such was the level of dislike of Andrew Little in the city her grew up in he failed to take back what had been a safe Labour seat for decades (until Harry Do-nothing lost it to completely unknown outsider, Jonathan Young.
I even went to Jonathan Young’s electorate office after the shemozzle with Andrew Little and apologised to him decrying the National party, saying that Andrew Little was worse, being utterly unreliable. He bought a copy of my book (though I doubt he ever opened it: avoidance of inconvenient truths is the name of the game).
So Andrew Little entered parliament as a list MP.
I interacted with him on just one other occasion, when he turned up at a climate crisis young person’s event (I would say typical of a politician to hi-jack a children’s event for political purposes). Now since the event was about tackling the out-of-control emissions that are ruining the future for young people, I asked Andrew: “Are you still promoting economic growth and planetary meltdown, Andrew?” -knowing full well that he was.
His response was to call me a criminal.
I had a lengthy discussion with his administrator, and agreed to a meeting brokered by her. Unlike Andrew Little, she was actually quite reasonable -Raewyn from memory but don’t quote me on that.
Weeks went past and Andrew was never available.
That ‘unavailability’ is the ploy politicians use to avoid meeting people they have no answers for. Harry Do-nothing used he same ploy after I had told him: “There’s only one thing to do with coal: leave it in the ground!”
As Associate Minister of Loot and Pollute -oops, I mean Crown Resources, his mission was to get coal out of the ground, sold and burned via a deals with a private companies. And bugger his children’s future.
Harry Duynhoven (life-long trough-feeder after giving up woodwork) aside, I gave up trying to get any sense out of Andrew Little, having better things to do with my time.
I got out of New Plymouth -the subservience to the oil sector, the gridlock, the overpriced housing and the away-with-the-fairies district council enough to deter me from persisting there any longer.
I can fully sympathise with Dave Mcpherson, since he was lied to and given the runaround by ‘cover-our-arses’ bureaucrats.
What I am saying now is this: don’t pin your hopes on the likes of Andrew Little to fix anything. his track record is appalling. And following my personal experiences with him, I would never vote for a political party he was closely associated with.
Just for clarity, I find National, ACT, NZF appalling and the Greens worse than useless.
One other thing before I get back to what I should be doing (preparing for the global financial meltdown): Andrew Little is free to respond to the points I made on TBD.
Apologies.
I hate it when I discover I have made numerous typing errors after submitting a comment. My only excuse is time is short and I have lots of projects to complete.
That should read:
Okay, jacindafan, I’ll give you the details, the evidence.
As a resident of New Plymouth, I was cycling along Vivian Street and noticed that a hut had been located behind the union building in that street, as campaign headquarters of Andrew Little.
Having been a work colleague of his father, Bill, and having played bridge at the same tables as his mother, Cicely on numerous occasions, I felt sufficient connection to seek out Andrew and question him on the crucial issues of the times we live in.
At first Andrew appeared to very interested (one might even say enthusiastic) when I pointed out New Zealand’s energy predicament -being 80% dependent on imported oil, which had already peaked in extraction and was in terminal decline. He bought a copy of the book I had written, which covered not only the energy predicament and the environmental predicament resulting from fossil fuel dependence (planetary meltdown) but also the Ponzi nature of the financial system. Andrew was so interested he wanted to meet me the following week for a follow-up.
I pointed out to him that I would be comfortable with him not mentioning the crucial issues of our times during the campaigning but if he were to become an MP and STILL NOT DEAL WITH THE CRUCIAL ISSUES, he would be a ‘marked man’.
The follow-up meeting took place and he was ‘all ears’. A meeting for the following week was arranged. I turned up be he didn’t. He apologised, and said he would be there the following week at the appointed time: I turned up but he failed to turn up!
I wrote in the Labour party campaign book: If you are so unreliable BEFORE THE ELECTION [when you are seeking community approval and votes], what are you going to be like AFTER THE ELECTION [when you no longer need to us]? His PA gave me a sour look but had to accept my point was perfectly valid.
Now you might say it means nothing, but, despite his mother being a player at the club, no one at the bridge club had a good word to say about Andrew Little.
Having been let down by Andrew twice in as many weeks, the next tine I saw him [on the camaing trail] I asked in a loud voice “You know that the oil supply has peaked, you know we are experiencing planetary meltdown, and you know he banking system is a Ponzi scheme. So why are you lying to the people?”
He ran away -literally- and as he ran I said: “Running from the truth Andrew?”
The next time I saw him I asked: “Still lying to the people, Andrew?” That elicited no response, other than a sour face.
Such was the level of dislike of Andrew Little in the city he grew up in he failed to take back what had been a safe Labour seat for decades (until Harry Do-nothing lost it to completely unknown outsider, Jonathan Young.
I even went to Jonathan Young’s electorate office after the shemozzle with Andrew Little and apologised to him for decrying the National party, saying that Andrew Little was worse, being utterly unreliable. He bought a copy of my book (though I doubt he ever opened it: avoidance of inconvenient truths is the name of the game).
So Andrew Little entered parliament as a list MP.
I interacted with him on just one other occasion, when he turned up at a young person’s climate crisis event (I would say typical of a politician to hi-jack a children’s event for political purposes).
Now since the event was about tackling the out-of-control emissions that are ruining the future for young people, I asked Andrew: “Are you still promoting economic growth and planetary meltdown, Andrew?” -knowing full well that he was.
His response was to call me a criminal.
I had a lengthy discussion with his administrator, and agreed to a meeting brokered by her. Unlike Andrew Little, she was actually quite reasonable -Raewyn from memory but don’t quote me on that.
Weeks went past and Andrew was never available.
That ‘unavailability’ is the ploy politicians use to avoid meeting people they have no answers for. Harry Do-nothing used he same ploy after I had told him: “There’s only one thing to do with coal: leave it in the ground!”
As Associate Minister of Loot and Pollute -oops, I mean Crown Resources, his mission was to get coal out of the ground, sold and burned via deals with a private companies. And bugger his children’s future.
Harry Duynhoven (life-long trough-feeder after giving up woodwork) aside, I gave up trying to get any sense out of Andrew Little, having better things to do with my time.
I got out of New Plymouth -the subservience to the oil sector, the gridlock, the overpriced housing and the away-with-the-fairies district council enough to deter me from persisting there any longer.
I can fully sympathise with Dave Mcpherson, since he was lied to and given the runaround by ‘cover-our-arses’ bureaucrats.
What I am saying now is this: don’t pin your hopes on the likes of Andrew Little to fix anything. His track record is appalling. And following my personal experiences with him, I would never vote for a political party he was closely associated with.
Just for clarity, I find National, ACT, NZF appalling and the Greens worse than useless.
One other thing before I get back to what I should be doing (preparing for the global financial meltdown): Andrew Little is free to respond to the points I made on TBD.
PS. I didn’t give time references for the above.
Discussions with Harry Duynhoven about the unsustainability of the economic system and the dire effects of pollution: 2007.
Discussions with Andrew Little about the unsustainability of the economic system and the dire effects of pollution [detailed in the book]: 2011.
Since then every significant factor has been made worse by the policies promoted by, and implemented by, politicians in power.
Comments are closed.