Conflict with China builds

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As more questions are raised about the role of the Wuhan Lab in this pandemic…

Covid-19 coronavirus: Wuhan lab ‘had emergency shutdown’ last October

US intelligence agencies are investigating mobile phone data which suggests the Wuhan Institute of Virology had an emergency shutdown back in October last year.

NBC News has reportedly obtained records which show that a “hazardous event” at the institute’s high security National Biosafety Laboratory may have occurred between October 6 and 11.

This allegedly led to a shutdown of the P4 laboratory from October 7 to 24, during which there was no mobile activity, news.com.au reports.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

The laboratory, located a short distance from the Wuhan wet market at the centre of the coronavirus outbreak, is the facility the Trump administration is blaming for starting the pandemic.

The report, which NBC says was carried out by private investigators, also suggested roadblocks around the laboratory were set up between October 14 and 19.

…things are heating up diplomatically with China.

Personally I think the most likely explanation is usually the right one. It is most likely this damned plague jumped species through the poorly run wet markets and spread there, but that the Wuhan Lab was working on bat viruses and had previous poor safety standards criticised by visiting American scientists in 2018, the possibility if the Wuhan Lab being the cause of an accidental release does need to be investigated alongside the much more likely role of the wet markets.

Both sources need investigation because you know, millions infected, hundreds of thousands dead and a global economic depression were all sparked by this plague, and knowing where it came form and how to stop it in the future is kinda important.

China doesn’t want an investigation because it is an enormous loss of face and asks hard questions about the deceit China used in the early days of the pandemic where as Trump wants an investigation on China to help deflect attention from his criminal negligence of a response to the American nightmare he has helped spawn with his incompetence.

So we have two Superpowers wanting to deflect. Conflict is almost guaranteed under these circumstances.

And we are seeing that pressure start here…

China bans Aussie meat exports as Covid-19 tensions rise

China has reportedly suspended meat exports from four Australian abattoirs as simmering tensions about the origin of the Covid-19 outbreak rise between the countries.

The Asian giant – which is New Zealand’s biggest meat export destination – suspended four Australian export abattoirs overnight but did not officially delist them, according to The Australian media outlet.

…and here…

China criticises New Zealand over support for Taiwan at World Health Organisation

China has issued a stern rebuke to New Zealand, urging it to “stop making wrong statements” on the issue of Taiwan’s membership of the World Health Organisation or risk damaging the two nations’ relationship.

The comments came from Chinese Foreign Ministry spokesman Zhao Lijian, who told a news conference in Beijing that New Zealand’s stance was a violation of the “one China'” policy, which he said is the political foundation of our bilateral relationship.

“We express our strong dissatisfaction with the statements and resolutely oppose it, and we have already made stern representations with New Zealand,” Zhao said.

“China urges New Zealand to strictly abide by the ‘one China’ principle and immediately stop making wrong statements on Taiwan, to avoid damaging our bilateral relationship.”

…Winston Peters wants to bash the Chinese because China bashing is going to be this election seasons favourite go to punchline seeing as everyone is now a beneficiary and bashing beneficiaries will be considered off limits.

The difficulty NZ has always had in trying to follow two masters is about to get tested, are we American slaves or Chinese slaves?

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74 COMMENTS

  1. I feel Martyn has it right. My problem is why would you try an antagonise our biggest trading partner with the only money earner we have left, primary industry meat and dairy. Just for once could we stop beating our chest on the world stage and suck humble pie. Nothing is proven here so let’s take a back seat and keep our head down. Trying to trade with all the rest of the wrecked economies around the world won’t be too lucrative I wouldn’t have thought so let’s not go out of our way to piss China right off just to show how virtuous we are.

  2. For me I can see why people would be for or against either China or America. There’s this humongous gap where ordinarily China and America would be a good thing together but it’s like really bad right now. Honestly why would anyone want to crap jobs that robots or AI could do and save on all this argy bargy but this is not why we have automation. We have automation in order to increase profits.

    So now we are in this terrible situation where most human beings exist in this situation between now and the future in which Chinese and American relations can be a good thing and I can see how a Universal Basic Income (UBI) can paper over that gap and provide a bridge to that future except a UBI would have to come out of the profits and that’s the problem of a declining rate of profits.

    What is most worrying about a UBI isn’t that it feeds the right wing narrative to get rid of the welfare state or that disabled people might be left behind but what is most worrying is that a UBI extricates capitalist from being held hostage by workers. Yknow if you’re able to deceive workers into taking up arms against each other with out a safety net then capitalists can just fire people who speak up against war or worse.

    • I’d suggest we should read the Big Kahuna, I guess it’s been updated since about 2000 when I first read it?
      A UBI (or similar) would actually save money, as WINZ/MSD basically disappear. IRD get’s scaled back and ‘those civil servants’ get to find a REAL job and see what reality is like for the rest of us.

      PLUS and I think this is a MASSIVE benefit, it solves this Govts fear or inability to change WINZ/MSD into a helpful, decent & honest agency. Just close it down and introduce a UBI, at about NZ$300 p/w (best guess f inflation proofing since 2000) for all 16 yrs olds and above.

      • It will be very interesting to see whether or not Jacinda, Winston Peters, Grant Robertson, James Shaw and Marama Davidson could fully comprehend and appreciate the subtleties and nuances of a UBI.

      • More New Zealanders work than otherwise, so affording it requires a fall in income for those in Super, a land tax, either a wealth tax an estate tax and an across the board 33% tax rate from the first dollar earned.

      • The devil is in the detail.
        Top has taken this as their big ticket but there is a load of fishooks like flat tax.

  3. I keep hearing “wild card”and “Russia” bouncing around the old thinkbox… Now how could they best use the growing stalemate between their puppet, and their quasi ally?

    • New Zealand is a puppet of China and America precisely because of the budget cuts to the NZDF and foreign affairs and trade ministries.

      • Is this meant to be a joke? How much would it cost for a military that is strong enough to resist either?

        • Military spending depends on the threat profile agreed upon by cabinet in Defence White Papers the last one being released last year. It’s got nothing to do with how much something might cost. Given the best of all possible information it is the responsibility of the government of the day to protect the sovereignty and interests of New Zealand and it’s people.

          I honestly would have thought that by now the corona virus would have cured tree huggers of there delusional tolerance for incompetent leadership. Being impotent in the face of this massive shift in power is indeed the highest form of incompetence.

  4. There had been a lot of interaction between the Wuhan lab and the fort Detrick lab of the US army bioweapons lab which was shut down in August last year for similar poor safety behaviour . Some of this Interaction involved Fauci the US advisor on controlling this pandemic .
    If this virus is a manipulated pathogen then I strongly suspect that both the US and China know a hell of a lot more about it than either of them are prepared to make public, and the US is leveraging on the knowledge that Chine can no more reveal the truth to their public than America can to theirs to manipulate public opinion for domestic political reasons.
    D J S

    • Assuming it is a lab release, from the science it would appear more likely to be a sample of a coronavirus accidentally released from a lab rather than an engineered organism. Once in the wild mutation via Pangolin at the wet market. Before you can prove conspiracy, you first have to rule out incompetence. Anyone who has seen Chernobyl knows how things work in a communist system. It is possible low level functionaries tried a cover up hoping to ingratiate themselves with the party leadership. Senior leadership moved fast when they were made aware. We may never know, but sometimes these people do write everything down. Fort Dettrick and the world military games is a lead that needs following up, if only to rule it out.

      • Alan the Wuhan P4 lab is a fortress, staffed by Chinese, French , American and other specialists.
        It is audited along with all staff regularly by international agencies as well as Chinese authorities.
        The virus “escaping” from that lab is plain speculation. The lab is at least an hours drive from the much maligned wet markets in Wuhan.

  5. China can’t /doesn’t produce enough food to feed itself especially protein.
    Encouraging your peasant class to move to cities to become factory workers produces this result.
    We do not need to kowtow to China. The whole world wants and needs our food production. The FTA with the PRC needs to be renegotiated now. China needs us more than we need China.
    Winston has done nothing untoward. He has merely supported Taiwan’s application to have observer status at the WHO.
    China is a thug and a bully.And needs to get over itself.
    Their particular brand of gangsterism has had it’s day.
    We do no t need Chinese workers in NZ spreading this virus.As happened in Italy.
    China needs to clean up it’s act and be more transparent.
    Fuck em.

    • Ok Shona. So Chinese workers are in NZ spreading the virus. Mmm. Not a proven accusation I take it. Don’t like China obviously. Think everyone else will buy our produce. Err wrong. I’m a retired still working farmer and in my opinion we really need that market. Just look how China is all ready punishing Australia. Of course we are different aren’t we Shona. We have to trade with all sorts of countries. You can’t let your little prejudices blind you to the reality that we are a pimple on the arse of the world and most of the larger countries couldn’t give a shit about us. Yes they’ll buy our produce if we don’t insult them.

      • Yes , perhaps it is time we can leave the 5 eyes agreement and trade with Russia , then we could insult all of the bastards and say to them ” You want it?- then accept we have stakes and an opinion in all of this as well,- and forget your bloody lack of protein production , China, that’s not our problem – and you’re just a bigger pimple on the arse of the planet, – so pull your arrogant bloody head in !”.

        There. That’ll f@ck em !

        Meant satirically , but the fact remains, – we are not a ‘non country’ to be fucked with either. We actually are known as the SOVEREIGN STATE OF NEW ZEALAND.

        Or at least we were before Roger and Ruth , Labour and National all but effectively stuck it to that notion of being a sovereign nation.

        And the new trade deals with Russia is to be taken quite seriously. Play the buggers off one another- highest bidder gets the contract, – the lowest bidder gets the scraps.

        • As China includes more Western food in its diet the incidence of both heart disease and cancer are on the rise.
          Protein – you don’t need much and animal protein is not traditional in many large rural areas of China where immune disorders were very rare.
          Milk particularly has not been helpful.

      • We do not need to confine our food production to the Chinese market. I did not say we did not need the Chinese market my point is we produce good quality food and our food is sought after by more than one market. We have been bullied by China due to the FTA which has given China far too much clout. The dirty dodgy buy out of Silver Fern Farms by the Chinese is a prime example. Prosperous NZ farming co-cop with greedy grasping dirty management.Selling out for no reason at all. We are deaf dumb and blind in this country to how wealthy we truly are. China is corrupt . The Chinese do not know how to farm our land and they do not give a rats arse about us, our land or our values. Wake the fuck up!

      • China never hesitates to insult ,instruct and talk down to us.The Taiwan salvos are an example. Perhaps it is a lack of finesse and nuance when using English, but the overall tone is bullying and arrogant. Like I said Fuck em!

        • IMHO China has delivered this virus to the world and is destroying peoples lives, jobs and countries economies. Intentional or not they are covering it up. We don’t need there plastic crap. NZ should do our manufacturing in NZ with kiwi workers. Stop China water bottling in NZ and sending them our logs. Fuck em!

        • Well Shona, it would seem if peters is allowed to keep on with his grovelling to the dying empire, both he and many others yourself included will soon discover if we do need China. Hey just a thought, maybe our bestest 5 eyes buddies murrica would allow our exports in???

      • The Chinese would prefer to own the farms, but for now accept local farm tenants of bank lenders who supply produce to Silver Fern and Synlait and Fonterra (who assist the development of farming in China and buy local partners.

        We are blessed to own the land that produces the exports even if much of the revenue goes offshore to Oz in mortgage payments. And in good years even get some income tax payments from farmers, if nothing at all when the farm is sold for a CG.

        But in return we must not offend those who consume the meat, for mammon comes before pride. A dependent labour worker and a capitalist boss. A people and a tyrant.

        • New View – you are not a farmer – you post regularly on this forum – you are always advocating a pro China viewpoint – the world has seen China unmasked in this pandemic and most countries do like what they see – we should be working together but can only do this if everyone is truthful – making threats against trading partners is foolish – as Shona said China has to import food to feed its huge population – Oz and NZ are reliable partners not subservient partners – it worries me the number of anti West and Pro China at any cost contributors that use this forum to try and create division in New Zealand – accept who we are mate and assimilate

          • IWWT. You don’t read many of my posts or would know I farm in retirement along side my son in CHB where we are suffering one of the worst droughts in my memory. I am not pro or against anyone. The reality is that if you’re going to take the moral high ground in trade you’ll end up trading with yourself. Every country has its dirty history and that includes us. Australia our supposed best buddies has a shocking human rights record so where are you going to draw the line here. You are entitled your point of view but don’t bother telling me who I am otherwise your lie should be deposited up a dark place on your anatomy where the sun doesn’t shine.

  6. When the Chinese sense a “loss of face” coming, they become very intractable.
    Trust me, I know.

    • Well that’s their weakness and shouldn’t be our problem, UNLESS of course we really are their slaves, as we are Americas.

  7. Martyn, to answer your question at the end:
    Hmmm…looking at Trump and the USA right now, and looking at the way the Democrats are about to fuck it up again, and at the same time watching Tiger King on Netflix…well…ehr…we might be better off being Chinese slaves!

    • The herald should only be read to see what the present right wing spin on current affairs is ,,, As a news source they are reliable as the word of John Key or Mike Hoskings ,,,

      The Herald was inner circle Dirty politics foundation members ,,, ‘Influence through misinformation’ ,,, is what they have always peddled.

      Winston Peters has been such a disgrace and usa stooge of late ,,,, that Im wondering if he got himself ensnared on film ,,, in a Epstein candid camera underage porno sting ,,, ( of course I’m just joking ,,,, The only New Zealander I’m aware of with ties to The pedo pimp and blackmailer Epstein ,, is Peter Thiel ) https://www.mintpressnews.com/cia-israel-mossad-jeffrey-epstein-orwellian-nightmare/261692/

      https://narativ.org/2019/07/27/building-big-brother/

      Anyway, I’m very disappointing in some of the crap Winston is coming out with ,,, and I consider him the ‘Key slayer’,,,In the sense that Johhny made off because of winston .

      How so ? ,,, I suspect Key did the maths before the last election ,,, and it was a better than 50% odds they would need to form a coalition with NZ first ,,, Peters would have demanded keys head as part of the deal ,,, and the nats would figuratively have cut dear leaders throat in a heart beat to stay in power.

      Of course I could be wrong and key was just continuing his career modus operandi ,,, of bailing out before his sub-prime work results in shit hitting the fan.

      Regarding China, John Key thinks the Chinese are alright ,,, $23.5 million dollars in conflict of interest real estate profiteering tells him so…
      *********

      New Zealanders need leaders who stop putting us in the ‘ bent over a barrel’ position ,,, It used to be a British barrel ,,, now its a big Chinese one we are bent over ,,, with the USA reaching through and having us by the financial balls at the same time.

      Its all a bit like an old saying ,,,,’ When standing on tip toes in a sea of shit,, and its up to the level of your lower lip ,,,, Don’t make waves.’

    • Right!! At least China builds dams and highways and local infrastructure with its foreign policy, and doesn’t drone bomb and prop up fascistic puppet govts to protect its corporate interests. Sometimes it’s worth seeing past what is familiar (western) and what could actually be better for the next generation. Here’s a newsflash: what’s better doesn’t always have to appeal to a nostalgia for the liberal boom of the 80s.

      China has already proven a better global leader than the imperialist USA and many downtrodden countries will agree.

      • Yes Halcyonis, and they did it as the spreaders of “freedom and democracy” were busy bombing large parts of the planet back to the stone age. (Great for weapons suppliers share prices.)

        • Selective, – what about the Uighur’s, the Tibetans, the Indians caught up with border clashes, and any one of a thousand ethic conflicts held to together by brute military and police force. And they were just as bad as the USA in not declaring war in Vietnam and supplying troops and advisors. And they were there earlier in the Korean conflict as well, doing the same basic thing.

          And finally , Tienanmen Square and body organ harvesting from convicted criminals, anyone?

          Like a bit of that on your toast with your Marmite ?

          Scratch the surface and you’ll see just how biased are your posts , – both of you.

          • It always amazes me how people can compare events in the vicinty i. e. right next door or within the territory of China with the worlwide Domination and destruction of the USA. Tibet doesnt even begin to compare even with the single events of either North Korea or Vietnam let alone the rest of the bombing into submission of any other country daring to strive for some sort of independence. All you do is show your ignorance.
            Also, most of the Uighur narrative is a US beatup.
            https://thegrayzone.com/2018/08/23/un-did-not-report-china-internment-camps-uighur-muslims/

            • Nah sorry mate- Vietnam was a war that lasted over 10 years and in which tens of thousands died. Most of them Vietnamese peasants. And China was JUST as complicit in that as was the USA. And the same goes with Korea.

              Ignorance?

              Pah !

              …’Tibet doesn’t even begin to compare?…

              Tell that to the Tibetan people – I think its YOU showing your ignorance and sycophancy , mate!

              And as for :

              …’ It always amazes me how people can compare events in the vicinty i. e. right next door or within the territory of China’…

              A little bit like bullying Taiwan , eh , mate? – except the Taiwanese people don’t seem to think they are either in the ‘vicinity’ of China nor part of their jurisdiction, – in fact , – they believe they are INDEPENDENT of China. Too bad China in its arrogance just don’t seem to get the picture, eh ? Or to know when people say NO !!!

              And while were at it :

              Tienanmen Square and body organ harvesting from convicted criminals, anyone?

              Like a bit of that on your toast with your Marmite ?

              • WK
                The American war against Vietnam was never meant to be when the UN agreed with France and Vietnam ( French Indo China) that the UN would provide a peacekeeping force while the French with drew, the Vietnamese who were fighting the French withdrew to the North and the peacekeeping force would organise with the Vietnamese to set up whole country elections.

                It was extremely bad luck for Vietnamese, Cambodians, Loas and Thailand that the UN allowed the USA to provide “peacekeepers” for the UN.

                The US did not set up discussions but arranged limited elections in just a part of the South and set up a Thieu family US puppet government.

                The US brought in more of its “peacekeepoers” and called them “advisors” A million of them launched into suppressing protest and then attacking the North using helicopter gunships and toxic agent orange defoliant to get rid of the jungle as well as spraying peasants with toxic DNA damaging herbicide and napalm, both contrary to UN rules of engagement.
                The bombing by US increased and the Vietnamese were forced to defend themselves.
                Cambodia and Laos were also carpet bombed as the USA increased its territorial ambitions.
                China eventually supplied the North Vietnamese with some weapons and support but much of the war was fought with both sides using US weapons. China did not enter the war.

                Finally after the lies out of the US became harder to hide and international pressure as well as within US protest got stronger, then the US withdrew defeated.

                But what a price paid to all concerned.
                Agent orange is a 2,4,6,T based highly toxic defoliant produced in New Zealand, the shame of which we cannot ignore. NZ and Ozzie also took part in the war against mainly Vietnamese peasants defending their country.

            • Sp B
              I have spent many dozens of hours hunting through the various rants about claimed Uighur subjugation and all reports I have found todate similarly link back to US based or nurtured mouth pieces.
              Muslims in China are a minority with the largest Muslim group being Hui who intergrate more freely with Han.

              For those who don’t have the time to investigate allegation I would advise not to become one who just passes on what they read without checking it over thoroughly.

              More Maori per capita are incarcerated in NZ than Uighur in China.
              Some Uighur are entangled with ME terrorism and on returning to China and offending some de-radicalisation is attempted with a small number.

              Its a bit like the US myth that Mao murdered 80 million which is a load of codswallop. During his leadership China doubled its population and life expectancy.

              • Lots of information about the Uighur’s to be found on Youtube, BBC, CNN. ABC, Independent, The Guardian, Aljazeera – just a quick look over lunch – go to search and type in Uighur – all of it damning

  8. When it comes to human rights & values then what do we share with China?
    Diplomacy & trade is important, but when the bigger player starts to become a serious threat to our sovereignty and natural resources then we need to wise up fast and stay very wary.
    China must take responsibility for this as a international leader & do everything it can to make things right. That starts with humbly apologising at the UN. Yes…. I know the US ain’t exactly known for this either by a long shot..
    There’s a huge economic lesson here aside from health related ones. Do NOT let one country control almost the entire manufacturing sector.
    None of us want war with China. But they need to own this!

    • NZ soil should never be for sale to other than Kiwi citizens with well established residency.
      But we have another problem that is over riding many other and that is our news sources are from the US driven Western agencies which feed Kiwis with blatant US bullshit and propaganda.
      There are other sources but no balance seems to be sought.
      So all US conflicts are some one else’s fault, sovereign countries taken over by US puppets become “freed” for the rape of resources and US agencies creating mayhem in Hong Kong are never mentioned in spite of the CIA and congress funded NED is in there supplying money and weapons to fight Honk Kong Authorities.
      The IPCC investigation recently published show Hong Kong Police to be battling organised terrorism with restraint and our MSM distort that completely with an imposed summary of events plus fake video footage.
      This has all been exposed but our USA compliant MSM ignore that.

      How many news reports do we get from China about what the US is doing or from Russia about the US P4 labs just outside their borders or WHO summaries of coronavirus genome international research..

  9. Further to your article, isn’t it interesting that it’s Winston doing the stirring and pissing off the Chinese! Figures – he couldn’t give a rats arse how it affects the rest of us. Serious, he does not care one bit. He is appealing to his voter base. Hilarious, they’re all 70 plus, tight arse and they all shop at the Warehouse which is full of Chinese goods.

    • …’ Hilarious, they’re all 70 plus, tight arse and they all shop at the Warehouse which is full of Chinese goods’…

      ——————–

      Might have something to do with the general levels of poverty in this country induced by the 1984 introduction via ‘Big Rodger’ with his little neo liberal games, dontcha’ think?

      – Something that Peters has opposed vehemently ever since. China isn’t the be all and end all of trade and they certainly are not the only country on this earth. And like Winston has said, … there’s always Russia to start trade negotiations with. Which geo-politically , – would be a good place to start to extricate ourselves out of the coming Sino- American stoush.

      Sure, keep the contract with China, … but just quietly let them know they are not the only players around and we don’t necessarily give a shit about their egotistical need to ‘save face’ or the need they seem to feel to bully smaller trading ‘partners’.

      • Wild Katipo “…there’s always Russia to start trade negotiations with. Which geo-politically , – would be a good place to start to extricate ourselves out of the coming Sino- American stoush.”

        Yep. And with the USA now publicly and ignobly lying about Russia, and the Russian people’s great contribution to victory in WW11, to try and position itself as ‘the’ world leader, shows that it is a perfidious ally. Viz –

        “Moscow won’t fail to take note of the White House decision to completely exclude the Soviet Union from its message marking Victory in Europe Day, the Foreign Ministry said, calling the act a “distortion” of World War II history.
        “The US officials have found neither the courage nor the desire to … do justice to the indisputable role of the Red Army and of the Soviet people, and to the enormous sacrifices they made in the name of humanity,” Russia’s Foreign Ministry said in a statement. It added that ignoring the historical facts due to current political likes or dislikes was unthinkable.

        We are planning to have a serious talk on the issue with American officials.

        The Soviet Union bore the brunt of fighting Nazi Germany, with at least 27 million of its people killed in WWII. Few families were left untouched, and so celebrations of Victory Day and remembering that war’s tragic toll are still a big deal in Russia.

        This is why many reacted with disbelief when media cited a message from the White House that said “on May 8, 1945, America and Great Britain had victory over the Nazis” and failed to even mention their Second World War ally, the USSR. The Twitter post with Donald Trump’s soundbite was soon pelted with tweets that graphically reminded the White House how it was the Red Army that took Berlin.

        Russians were, of course, far from the only nation insulted by the White House message, with WWII-era posters showing that the US acknowledged many more allies back in the day.” RT

  10. I have never understood the appeal Winston has to older voters .He is a twisted bitter man being the bridesmaid never the bride . Hopefully he knows he is on the way out and he is determined to settle some old scores . He does not care about the outcome to those hurt by upsetting China . It is a bitter pill to swallow for some but we need China to buy our goods and we do not need Winston upsetting them .
    Years ago we upset USA by the nuclear ship ban and it has taken years to get a foot in the door again. We are a small nation a long way for markets and with mass tourism a distant dream we need to draw on our second strength which is food production

    • Trevor – Peters looks good in a suit. The first politician since Geoffrey Palmer who knows how to wear a suit – and show to advantage the craft of the bespoke tailor like Italian. I might vote for him for that. Good a reason.

      He also has a ready wit – better than the usual half wits.

    • Rick.
      “It is becoming apparent that people are getting sick because they are being isolated and effectively living under house arrest, condemned as “murderers” if they so much as think about breaking curfew, being snitched on by neighbours for “gathering” more than two people together in their back gardens.”

      Becoming apparent????
      That is utter bullshit as is the rest of the sentence.
      Just read it slowly.

  11. It’s a testament to NZ’s disappearing identity based on undermining the Treaty of Waitangi, that now people seem to be identifying with..

    ‘The difficulty NZ has always had in trying to follow two masters is about to get tested, are we American slaves or Chinese slaves?’

    Lets go option C, neither!

    NZ may be a nation full of government and private sector sycophants to China and US, but most of the population is less than impressed with that destiny.

    • +1 re option C
      Except its actually option A with B C and D being USA, China and Britain, and not necessarily in that order.

    • +100 saveNZ….jonkey stopped us trading with Russia when we should/could have…follow the money with the Nacts….compromised

      • Red Buzzard – Why did John Key stop us trading with Russia ?

        Like others, I have a huge love of Russian culture, its literature, music and so on – and respect for much of the ancient culture of China; we could have been enriched by closer links with Russia in more than monetary ways – and infinitely more than from the Hollywood-type culture which seemed to impress Key so much that he was prepared to mess up our Kiwi workers to serve it; was he just star-struck or what ?

  12. Since we’ve become enthralled by cheap Chinese product which is why we buy Chinese product then surely, it can be argued that it is we who hoist ourselves up by our own petard.
    Isn’t it like feeding, clothing and nurturing an abuser just to have the abuser beat the shit out of us repeatedly?
    And indeed, is that, in fact, the case? Are the Chinese really that bad? Overall? Are they so bad to us?
    While not wanting to make things personal but I must to make my point; my family and myself lost our fortune and our way of life not to Chinese people but to old, small-town, fat, white, Kiwi male, middle management people. None of them were Chinese.
    And our people in the street…? The voting AO/NZ’er? How many of them are knowledgeable of Chinese culture? I mean genuinely knowledgeable. And the same thing can be asked of Chinese people and of how much they understand of ours. For example… The Chinese delight of eating cat and dog meat is disgusting to many of us. But are they any worse than we who eat cows, lambs and deer?
    I don’t know much, but I do know that the only value in ignorance is the ease with which it can be exploited.

    • /Agreed – in as much as we did it to ourselves while under the influence of ideological dogma.
      And it’s not as though there weren’t people warning of the consequences.
      Whether its been losing timber processing capability such that a hunk of NZ pine 4×2 is cheaper in places offshore; or the reliance on “export education” that sees our education standards falling; or flogging off everything that isn’t tied down to foreign “investors” such that we’re now dependent in order to carry out the most basic functions (like building houses to maintaining – even building railway wagons).

      I sure hope that we’re ready to pull the SWIFT link when things get really tight.

      Interesting too that among the many immigrants we’ve brought in from offshore for whatever reason, many come from cultures that are much closer to our indigenous with knowledge of the societal collective and cooperation than the culture of our former and current masters. And its often simply that where they come from places of large high density population – ruthless competitiveness is sometimes necessary to survive.
      No wonder they want to escape

  13. We have supported Taiwan as an observer at WHO and seen this as consistent with our one China policy. Peters has just restated it.

    China has simply said they do not see it as consistent with a one China policy, but have not minded as it is not something that comes up often, and certainly not as part of something central to world news – a pandemic.

    Peters has stated it because it is relevant during a pandemic.

    The Chinese have objected because of connection to WHO investigation of the origin of the coronavirus – it speaks to the issue of competence in pandemic management and wider concerns about Wuhan lab security and its wet market (casts China in a poor light compared to Taiwan) that the USA and Oz have raised.

    The associated block on Oz meat exports to China is a warning to us about the way power is going to be exercised in the post pandemic era.

    We need to be concerned to broaden our export markets (ASEAN/RCEP and EU) and to avoid the debt trap (pandemic credit card the first year cost and throw the card away) that neo-libs have in store for indebted nation states.

  14. Morning Bomber, not long after making my comment on this particular article last night i found myself unable to load even load your website on All devices & platforms in our home. This remains the case this morning, ONLY your website is blocked, everything else comes up straight away. im currently accessing your site now via my phone at present bi-passing our wifi/ip address to write this message to you.
    Anyone else reporting issues?
    Can you confirm whether i have been blocked?

      • DX5 Everyone’s watching Ross – they probably all just happened to converge at once.
        Needs to be a Ross Roster to avoid this, or more open sharing of information, and there would be if the spooks trusted each other, which I wouldn’t if I were them.

        Ngoh m gaai yi hui tai, daan hai ngoh m seung chaam yue. What a pretty pickle !

  15. China’s shading handling and extreme hubris over this matter could be their undoing IMO.
    They caused the virus, covered it up, stole medical supplies destined for other countries and are now threatening countries who won’t be brought to heel over the PRC party line.
    By doing this, they seriously risk galvanising the Western economies against them, leading to their own economic apocalypse. Countries were already shifting their supply chains from China to other countries, this will only hasten this.

    • I agree Jays, countries might start looking for different trading partners and change to more localized manufacturing to reduce there exposure to China as a precaution for the future, given the shit they’re causing now. They have been spreading out their population and buying into foreign land for a long time now, who knows for what end but a pessimist like me see’s 1.5 China on the way. If push comes to shove, I’m inclined to side with the Yanks any day. They’re not inclined to invade your country and there military is No 1 by a very large margin.

      • GB.
        Look carefully and you will read that the shit is coming from the US and a few allied mouthpieces…….not China.

          • The US has invaded more countries than any other during last century and this one.
            They now appear to be preparing for conflict with China and we will get dragged in as we were with the American wars in Korea and Vietnam.

            The virus spread in China but there is no evidence it was spawned in China, just conjecture and political finger pointing of political convenience. China has controlled the virus and in spite of its size appears to be on top of its spread and now new case numbers are very low. Unlike the USA and Sweden
            Three virology scientific agencies independently find the virus did not come from a source in China.
            It is easy to blame China but if you want the truth try relying on scientific exploration of the virus history rather than mouthpieces from political alliances.

            But even more of a worry is that the SARS virus which was much more lethal, was controlled by confinement of cases, following up all contacts cases had, control of entry to countries and that effectively eradicated the spread of the virus before it got into countries without modern health systems. There has not been a SARS case reported for a decade and a half.
            With Sweden , the USA. the UK where the virus has prolifferated without effective controland now Africa all without effective control the covid19 may be with humans for the duration.
            NZ has done its bit well no thanks to business NZ, but other countries have caved in to business interests thus leaving the world unprotected.
            There is no evidence of herd immunity nor whether any vaccine will stop covid19.
            MSM rumours are not reliable information.

  16. What a lot of bollocks all this China done it is. Can anyone find an actual virologist who supports this theory. The list of those who say it jumped species potentially via an intermediary such as the raccoon dog is long. A case in point from across the ditch is nobel prize winner Peter Doherry who won his prize due to work on the mechanism of viral infection. What does he think of the Wuhan Lab theory?

    “Doherty digresses long enough to add that the Chinese provided the virus gene sequence extremely early, which he says is critical for quickly developing a vaccine. It is why he says the politics around China is a colossal exercise in stupidity….”
    http://archive.li/nWUHm

    Fauci in the Usa says it wasnt from a lab and then there is all these…
    https://www.moonofalabama.org/2020/05/as-death-toll-increases-blame-china-campaign-intensifies.html

    And as for Judy Mikovits..
    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2020/05/fact-checking-judy-mikovits-controversial-virologist-attacking-anthony-fauci-viral

    Why the NZ Herald is suddenly an agenda free source for blaming China Im not sure.
    Anyhow, Trump will be loving it. Now he gets to gamble with the economy versus peoples lives with a free pass to tote every death onto China. I didnt do this. China did. Its a winning strategy for the election which at the moment is all he cares about

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