Horror of our toxic welfare system laid bare to working class white people & why that will hurt Labour


Working class white folk are horrified at how toxic our welfare system really is…

Breadwinner asks: Why can’t I access Government support?

Wellington woman Michele Cairns says she’s spent a lifetime paying taxes – but the Government’s expectation that a household can live off one income means she can receive no support now that she needs it.

Cairns finished at her job a month ago, ready to start a new position as an accounts manager on March 30.

Then, the country went into lockdown. Her new employers told her she could not start her job until the end of April.

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“I’m the main breadwinner and it was a huge hit for our family,” she said.

Her husband works for a business that supplies cafes and restaurants.

For now, he is receiving the wage subsidy and is on 80 per cent of his $47,800 annual income.

“It took Work and Income two-and-a-half weeks to tell me I can’t get the benefit because of my husband’s income, but he only earns enough to meet our rent and keep food on the table. What about our power and other bills?”

She said it seemed out-of-date that someone could not access a benefit if they had a working partner.

“My husband and I have always had separate accounts. I have always paid my taxes as an individual, and in my time of need the Government should support me as an individual.” 

The couple has one child at home and Cairns said they had been living off her overdraft until she was able to start her new job, on limited hours, this week.

On Jobseeker Support, couples can only earn up to $90 a week between them before it starts affecting the amount that is paid. A single person can earn up to $90 individually.

…it is a shock to the system of any white working class person when they are suddenly forced to be treated the way brown poor people are.

Schadenfreude to one side, the intentionally toxic culture inside WINZ and MSD must change urgently or hurt Labour.

I recently pointed out in my Waatea News column that Labour’s failure to tackle the toxic culture at WINZ and MSD would become problematic once large numbers of NZers were forced to apply for welfare…

This Government are too frightened to take on the toxic culture in WINZ and force real change so that the welfare of beneficiaries is more important than the welfare of MSD.

Labour have failed to implement 40 of the 42 recommendations the recent Welfare Expert Advisory Group put in front of them and the toxic culture legacy has seen beneficiaries waiting all day on the poorly staffed 0800 numbers often finding more pointless red tape for them to wade through to gain access to help.

WINZ is purposely built to be difficult and obtrusive to use so as to put off desperate and vulnerable people from accessing benefits. When there is a stampede of need for access, the way we are seeing with this pandemic, that purposely built difficulty of access creates vast log jams and gridlock within a system that isn’t designed to say yes in a way that alleviates stress.

If anything, WINZ is there to manufacture a sense of unease and fear.

WINZ is a neoliberal weapon used to punish, intimidate and terrify those unfortunate enough to require their assistance. It’s not built to actually help people and now it’s being required to, there is massive bottleneck from the purposely obtuse processing regime.

WINZ & MSD required an enormous cleansing of their toxic culture, now the Government need them to be kind, they don’t have that capacity.

This requires urgent oversight before the explosion of complaints start on social media.


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  1. The benefit system has never been based on real costs that real people need. It was started off with the same amount of thought for price levels as the middle-class pensioners had at the op shop I worked at – ‘They (the customers) should pay that, it’s what I reckon is right.’

    People who work in social policy have advised for years that their payments are too little. They have advised that the sort of food that is a good diet is unaffordable on the family or unemployment benefits. That dental care is unaffordable, that medical care is too expensive, that transport should be free for families as for old age pensioners, that beneficiaries should be encouraged to give their children good care and values but poverty and erratic or long working hours prevent this, that people should be able to form their own networks of support but now as soon as someone gives them a cheery word and help to carry the rubbish out they are regarded as forming an economic unit and get less, that people should be allowed to earn lots on top of their benefits so they can cope with their parental role well and get prepared for being in the workforce longer as their children grow older.

    Blah Blah. How boring everyone says. Don’t you ever have anything different to say. And the answer is no, because the government will not bring in these practical, humane and cost-efficient measures because they love to despise people who are poor. The country has slid right back into class barriers and equality is just a mirage, but one not looked at too closely as seeing might be believing, and people who have acquired a string of houses are too high up in society to bother with the riff-raff. The main parties for a long time have behaved like a moralising bunch of narrow-minded. superior, class-oriented people who disdain others who don’t follow their materialistic capital-mad rules. NZ has slipped back into the attitudes of early colonial times, and we are almost back to sweated labour which could become frequent as more jobs are lost because of Covid-19 as well as waves of low-paid foreign workers, and the inexorable replacement of warm hands on the job by cold machines.

    And the proof of this is that Labour Party itself slipped the stiletto into the living bodies of unionists.
    A social anthropologist (Thomas Belmonte) who did a study of a Naples suburb with centuries’ ingrained poverty, said that when a man came up to you in an apparently friendly way and draped his arm over your shoulders, you should grab the other arm firmly, look him in the eye and defy him to kill you in cold blood with the knife he has hidden in his hand. Your task today, if you will accept it, is to look Labour politicians and their mentors, in both eyes and expect nothing but flabby, underhand dealings from them for the poor or disadvantaged, until you can apply some moral or other pressure in sufficient quantities to arrest the default position they adopt – following the smell of money and perks like bloodhounds. And not forgetting that the administrators and workers who work in the civil service have had these attitudes ingrained for longer than many politicians have been in power. It’s not a case of a pollie saying ‘Jump’, and the department saying ‘How high’, possibly the reverse in WINZ case; it’s in the Ministry of Social Development but some people say Misery is the right word.

    For a 1984 example of doublespeak (doublethink), I’ll end with a cheery note from the Ministry:
    Ministry of Social Development: MSD http://www.msd.govt.nz
    The Ministry of Social Development helps people to be successful in their lives. … education, a responsibility or an opportunity, we build their security and welfare. … The impact of multiple disadvantage on subjective wellbeing in NZ families …

  2. 100% correct Martyn,
    I begun work at 10yrs old as a milk run boy, that got up at 5;45am every morning to go out and walk a ‘milk cart’ down the foot path on Mc Grath Street Napier to deliver milk to over 100 homes of napier south in 1955 then after at 11yrs old had the worst paper run in Napier every day from 4pm to 6pm.

    At 14yrs old I had a Post office after school job sorting mail this was before I officially started work at 15 yrs old in Woolwarths before i begun an aprecifhip in my 16th year.

    Now at 75 I am disabled and can’t get any disability assistance from MSD, as the Pension is so low that I cant afford any treatment that I need and have to pay for, as the Ministry of Health has no treatment for my disabilties.

    When I wrote to Carmel Sepiloni as Minister for disabilities in 2019 about my hardship, she failed to respond.

    So I sent another letter to her, and sudeenlly got a call from MSD to meet a woman at MSD and after 30 minutes taking to her she had no support for my disability other than “we can perhaps get some to mow your lawns?”

    That was a kick in the head to me as I have many other medical issues that mowing a lawn would not help fix.

    Martyn, yes the MSD needs an overhaul quick smart.

  3. Yknow listening to John Key go on about cutting up to 20% of employees is like watching a drunk with a steak knife in one hand and a book about Greys Anatomy in the other hand trying to give himself an appendectomy. It’s just so inept but it feeds this subliminal ideological message about punishing the most vulnerable people in society.

    Corona has exposed with crystal clarity who is truly inept and I say keep on talking people. Just keep on talking because eventually the people will abandon the truly shit scum bags.

    • I wonder if there is something in starting a movement that announces that their people won’t vote unless better conditions for citizens are brought in, along the lines of a petition that will be handed in to Parliament. Those that didn’t vote would face being fined, but would only pay the fine to one of a chosen group of charitable bodies.

      If we are going to have a wealthy elite handing out crusts to the needy, better give money directly to where it is so needed. There might even be prison sentences in store for those who don’t comply. Remember how upset Helen Clark got at people burning the NZ flag, in the open, there was no possibility of damage to a building, books, a tree or shrub or bush. A flag – just a symbolic piece of coloured cloth.

      I wonder which charities should be on the list first. I declare I am thinking of young families. Sorry I think that the older people get plenty of sympathy, as a rule, though there was that guy who travelled in his mobility chair quite a way down the State Highway in Northland I think, to try and get some sense out of the Dept and PTB over his benefit. Perhaps there could be a blog/facebook where people write in and tell us all their problems so NZs
      have to face that this isn’t Godzone, and they can get a voucher that will pay for one or two things which will make life a tiny bit better that day.

      But say Womens Refuge, Men’s low alcohol-allowed ‘wet houses’, taxi transport there and back to take a sick family to the doctor, and pay for all the prescriptions too. A roving reliable, repairman paid for by a charity, who will travel to three or four jobs in a distant town, fixing washing machines, fridges etc. for koha.

      A small charity set up for blokes on the streets to call in to a central kitchen and get two muffins home-made, either sweet or savoury. That would be nice, they often don’t get much attention, and don’t want too much either, quite private chaps, but this would be a lift for them, with a smile and a cup of tea/coffee, cool juice, before they go off on their habitual route.

      We need to cheer each other up, especially those thumped hard by life, to make up for the Dickensian characters of the ‘caring professions’. Looking at stuff about Dickens this piece about a nasty prison called Marshallsea gives background to where the vicious in his upper class society consigned the people they called vicious in lower income society. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshalsea

      Anne Perry writes about those hard times in books packed with detail and complicated plots which seem far fetched , hard to believe, but I read recently about the depravity of some Lord who lived with Harold Macmillan’s wife while he was Prime Minister 1957-1963, and was involved with the notorious Kray brothers. Just amazing how tightly controlled vice is in the upper classes while they punish the poor harshly. We don’t want to get like the UK do we! Our forebears came here to get a better life, let’s set our mind to getting it right this year!

      • In a low information environment we don’t really want to take risks moving in and out of level 3 to level 2 restrictions. There’s still a shit ton we don’t know about corona I mean what does A-symptomatic even mean? And well it means we don’t know.

        It’s almost certain that what we know about the previous 18 corona virus that there’s infectious people walking around with no symptoms and they don’t even know they’ve got it. That’s just how flues work.

        So if we want to reopen the economy and we should reopen the economy then we will have to assume half the population gets reinfected and a 2% death. It’s better to just assume the in a low information environment and be prepared for it, Yknow use this period of instability to build up the minimum required levels of objective medical resources and just open her up and take what may come.

        We are going to have to reopen the economy we can’t leave it idling in neutral for a couple years Yknow hospitals need to get built, doctors and nurses and medical staff pay is going to have to go up. These people are getting crushed so conditions for these people are naturally going to go up.

        Already shaking hands isn’t going to be the same as pre-corona. The way we great ech other, the way we work will change. I mean do hospitals really need 30% administrative staff levels to be deployed over the hospital or could that be done with a website. Could the CEO work from home and does he really need an assistance to do that? Yknow all these non essential roles have to be radically reassessed and money diverted into creating a 25-30% extra capacity in the health system because currently the Health system is running at or over 100% capacity.

        So Yknow Fisher & Pickle they produce respirators for the Australian and New Zealand Market a really good company, revenues aren’t that great but the story is in their low borrowing and earnings last quarter they experienced about a 10% boost which is very interesting after trading flat for along time.

        Yknow this industry is just going to pop up out of no where around the health sector and I want to be down stream of that. These doctors and nurses if the are to have improved conditions and pay we are going to have to open the economy and they’re going to want to have better food, better entertainment and those businesses that do spring up around them are going to have to have new and different customer service skills that reflect the new operating environment.

  4. Lockdown in New Plymouth.

    Mental Health Foundation chief executive Shaun Robinson said the rumour was wrong and spreading it could increase harm by normalising suicide as a response.

    “There is absolutely no truth to this rumour,” Robinson said.
    “It is totally irresponsible and untrue.”

    Then… this mama’s boy states:

    “There are very few people in the country who are able to accurately assess numbers of suicides at a national level in real-time,” Robinson said.

    So….IT COULD BE TRUE and he doesn’t have evidence to prove otherwise!

    “It is critically important not to contribute to misunderstandings and false information about suicide in New Zealand.”

    He said spreading such rumours could in fact lead to increased harm.

    “These rumours and their accompanying commentary imply that suicide is an expected, understandable and proportionate response to COVID-19, and that’s both untrue and an extremely unhelpful thing to suggest.”

    “Whenever we have a public discussion about suicide, people who are currently suicidal or who are vulnerable to suicide are always listening,” Robinson said.

    Ohh,,right…How would he know? Is he listening in on their conversations or just a ACTUAL mindreader?

  5. Why is it the system treats you as an individual if they want to take money away from you (IRD) but treat you as a couple when it comes to welfare?

    • I think you know the answer to that question, Mark. It’s all about figuring out who are the ‘deserving poor’, and who are just sponging idlers looking for a handout. The Ministry, like the agile, compassionate and competent government department it is, responds appropriately. (Like a blind, multiple-amputee on a three-day bender.) Ruth Richardson and Jenny Shipley did untold amounts of damage to our capacity to efficiently and adequately care for the needs of our less fortunate. We’ve yet to recover, despite the frequent name-changes, colour schemes, and new stationery and furnishings. (If that money had been spent on actual beneficiaries, some people would probably be considerably better off.) National, no matter who is in charge, or when they’re elected, or however long they’re in office for, can be relied upon to do one thing — put the boot into beneficiaries. It’s just what they do. I expect better from Labour… but I’ve grown accustomed to disappointment.

  6. The good news (Sarcasm) is that there is only a tiny percentage of racism in NZ against Māori and Pasifika according to the NZ race commission’s release.

    Apparently out of 250 complaints to the race relations commission only 82 were race related and 30% of that was about Chinese/Asians (about 24 people in total), therefore A special task force is being set up for Chinese/Asian to collect data of experiences of racism during the crisis in response to the dearth of evidence.

    Ok then, there is a death of evidence about the racism complaint to Chinese/Asian they are setting up a special task force to create some!


    I guess the PRC propaganda machine needs to get into full mode in NZ as the victims of everything using racism as part of political propaganda for them around the world.

  7. Why is this woman’s complaint getting so much airtime. Nothing has changed since when I was on the benefit in the late 80’s.
    When she left the previous job there would have been holiday pay . As an account manager I am sure she would have been pulling in more than the minimum wage .Where is any sense of standing on your own feet. Obviously I do not know the whole story but if the country was expected to surport all couples to maintain the status quo when one party was laid off or sick the taxes would need to be enormous . Did hey not put any money to one side for a rainy day. Do they get coffee each day buy lunch go on overseas holidays .
    Winz do need a shake up in the way people are treated but this type of case is one that on the face of it does not have a strong case. In the next few months there will be many stories of real lose .

    • “I bet they’re eating avocado on toast too, the shameless wasters! If she had saved earlier, she’d have been able to purchase some quality bootstraps by which she could now hoist herself and thus avoid having to sponge off the (hard-working Mum and Dad) taxpayers (who are just trying to get ahead). Appalling! Personal responsibility! A hand-up not a hand-out! Building a brighter future!”

      I think I covered all the bases on that one.

  8. If these insidious Neoliberalist BXXXXXXds don’t grasp the opportunity to change their ways in the wake of this global Pandemic and impending recession / depression, then they deserve to be swept away in the Social uprising that will shortly follow Covid19’s exodus.
    Not that National deserve any consideration at all, as personally, I would never EVER vote for them under any circumstances after their last “Brown Shirt” go-round on the wheel of power, but considering both Party’s are strong proponents of Neoliberalist Economic Management Policy’s, they’ll both go in the first social uprising to follow the Pandemic.
    I would rather live in the Busom of Chaos, than continue to struggle under this horribly failed Economic System any longer! Give me Liberty or give me death and if anyone tries to force feed me this twice chewed and upchucked Dog’s Breakfast any longer – shame on them…
    The complaints are already circulating on Social Media on WINZ & MSD’s Toxic Culture, so the middle working class will get to see this Franken-Monster 1st hand and feel the Toxicity they emit. Their only hope for survival will be the success or failure of the front line 0800 brigade on duty to take their calls. If the pain continues once COVID19 is gone and they have to start talking to MSD / WINZ staff in person, it will get very ugly VERY fast as the current batch of Case Manager’s only know how to say “no”, regardless of any help you or your family might need. With any luck, we’ll see the backside of these sub-human immoral pricks. Maybe some of them can be repurposed, maybe not, but if any of these front line managers and their poorly trained Case Management staffers ever find their way into another position requiring contact with the public they might easily be mistaken for the cockroaches they are and be squashed like common pests as they should be for their past crimes against our Humanity.
    At the moment we have 2 critical tasks on our social plate. 1.) Get past this Pandemic 2.) Get past this Neoliberalist Economic Meritocratic Market Management System that’s strangling the Global population to death every next second it is allowed to exist. It may require repurposing our entire Government & Ministry’s in order to end this reign of terror. So be it, let the games begin in earnest! We all deserve better than this current lot of Public / Private Usurpers.
    Good Article Bomber, accurate, succinct and to the point. well spoken!

  9. How will this hurt Labour? National are even worse and roughly 75 % of voters would not vote for any other party. The only alternative that night improve things is the Greens.

  10. I heard something on radionz today, can’t remember when and which program, probably morning. Someone I think in the UK is being taken to Court for sexism, sexual advances or whatever. It happened 30 years ago and two women were employed to welcome attendees to a conference, all legitimate. The boss told one of them that she was great for the job as she was so nice looking and had good legs. She says that upset her and hurt her feelings! Thirty years ago that was an okay compliment and a woman was pleased to receive it, and accepted it in the same way that it was offered. What a load of whimps or tricky actresses some women are these days. Women have won the right to be called simply ‘actors’ without gender defining their careers. But

    The Conchords – I’ve got hurt feelings. Funnny.

    • Greywarbler: ” Someone I think in the UK is being taken to Court for sexism, sexual advances or whatever. It happened 30 years ago and two women were employed to welcome attendees to a conference, all legitimate. The boss told one of them that she was great for the job as she was so nice looking and had good legs.”

      It’s Joe Biden: would-be Dem president of the US. God help ’em all…..

  11. That is true. We had the same problem. The system is rotten and unfair. We pay tax to feed lazy people and when we get in trouble there is no help. They said to us if you were separated we would pay around $500 a week but because you are together the working spouse must take care for the whole house hold expenses.

    • The bizarre relationship rules are driving many families to break up too, which is not good for the children and society.

    • Eugenia – How do you know they are lazy? Give us your proof, and also prove your need. The government can’t just pay out to anyone who says they deserve benefits. You may be no different than those others you glibly put down.

  12. I think that the culture you describe is entirely intentional and is the neoliberal ‘tail’ wagging the dog – so to speak. While I do not always agree with you, I think you are on the money here. While the current government are only ‘neolib-lite’ compared to it’s predescessor – the managerial strutures developed under the previous administration within a number of government departments has not been changed and so any decent ideas to be enacted by this government must first work through the neolib bureaucrats to get to the needing recipients. In Oranga Tamariki this is massively evident in the removal of the previous chief social worker (Paul Nixon) due to his not being a ‘yes-man’ and the upper management structure full with people with little or no social work background who really don’t understand social work practice – the outcome is poorly thought through policy that is repeating the mistakes of the past (e.g. the rescue model for traumatised children) with no acceptance of the impact of poverty on people who are forced to engage with the ‘service’.
    Frankly, the sooner we move to UBI the better. Then we can replace the neolib bureaucrats with more socially just options who can run MDS as a caring and support organisation rather than a gatekeeper to the already massively dispossessed. Nixon was replaced by Grant Bennett who will do what he is told and seek to spin neolib guidelines to the substantive social worker population within the organisation.
    As you suggest, the toxicity of MSD is only now being ‘noticed’ because some of the white middle class are being subjected to the patronising and obstructive behaviour of an organisation that is supposed to actually help NZers’

  13. The Centre Right Neoliberal Labour party followers, the white middle class dont like the poor or beneficiaries even if you were one of them, youre an outcast now that you’ve crossed that line.

    With 240,000 kids still living in poverty and now, 359,000 people unemployed and/or in receipt of a support. This government isnt interested in these peoples well being at all.

    The Minister of Poverty and Starving Kids, the PM, just cant wait to say, again at the next photo-shoot, “we are all one, and I (dont) care!”

    Muddle NZ is a sucker for the vacuous meaningless statements from a wishy washy PM. It resonates with muddle class white folks and conservative brownies as well.

    $10.6b is wage subsidies is about to run out in the twelfth week, then what? Fuck the virus she says! Fuck off back to work and dont even think of signing onto the dole! That’ll be an instant 4 week standown!

    This government is ‘Clueless’ and have let a opportunity go to waste.

    PS: Theyre all children born (1983-1993) in a crisis but never lived and have experienced one. They were feed the Neoliberal doctrine of that Rogernomics & Ruth the Butcher Richardson era and are doomed to repeat that part of NZ history …

  14. Understand there is only so much a govt can do in a small amount of time that they are in power also understand that labour has only been in one term it is literally trying to fix all of nationals shit it was the nats that implemented the winz culture but yes it needs to change let’s give labour the chance to fix it

    • Fran. So how fucking long do they need. You and others here are apologists for a Government that promised massive changes to just about everything and have half delivered on a handful. National haven’t been governing for three years leave them out of it. . It would take a five minute chat with The minister and WINZ managers to let them know what is culturally required, but JA put Sepuloni there to run a tight ship, not to loosen the ropes. Changing the culture requires replacing managers not practicing the right culture with people that will. Is that hard. Seems to be for this Government.

      • New view
        Changing the humans at work in social welfare departments, and their attitudes and values, would be as easy as changing those things in you. I think you are fairly tightly woven into your prejudices and whiny approach.

        • Graywarbler A no nothing comment that shows you don’t have anything to add except you don’t like what I say. I have dealt with WINZ on behalf of my Son and know exactly the type arrogant unhelpful people that are employed there. Not all but a few. Tell me why it’s so hard to get those people to communicate in a sympathetic way. As is pointed out on this forum the private sector shed unnecessary and unsuitable staff without delay. Why should government department staff be any different. If the policy decisions affecting WINZ need changing, Change them. Don’t tell me they haven’t had enough time like Fran. This Government has plenty on its plate now, but the last government had plenty happening to keep it distracted. No one here cuts them any slack. All you hear here is the nine years. People forget you have to be re elected to stay nine years in government. How did that happen.

  15. “Working class white folk are horrified at how toxic our welfare system really is….”

    White folks obliged to engage with the welfare system already know this.

    It’s by no means the case that only brown people are beneficiaries.

  16. BTW – before Covid the largest growing group in poverty was pakeha homeowners on wages with 2 kids. So I think before the woke race based headlines, at least work out if you are spreading fake news.

    Left bloggers are helping right wingers and woke by spreading this idea that people with housing are rich – one of the biggest growing poverty groups seem to be those on wages with kids, WITH a house and mortgage.

    From 2018 Invisible Children
    by Brian Easton

    “I discovered that measured poverty in the country was dominated by children and their parents. This was a revolutionary finding at the time and it took only four decades for it to become the conventional wisdom. Even today, you will find people who focus their poverty discussions on beneficiaries, ethnic minorities, single-parent households, and those in rental accommodation. The research evidence points to the most common household in poverty is a Pakeha couple with children living in their own house (with a mortgage) and being dependent upon wages. “

    • In say 70’s the poorest people in NZ were single women. How much do we hear about them now and yet I would imagine the problem is the same, low wages, and discrimination in measurement of wages between men and women with women always being around the 80% mark of men – average or mean, don’t know which. And then when paying for any of the basics it is the same price for women as well as men. There is a real prejudice about poor women on their own. Poor women with children cop another sort of prejudice. It seems if you look quickly at the stats, that society secretly dislikes women. And at one time women never had any rights, they were under guardianship of fathers, and then husbands, or pimps. In the 60’s a woman couldn’t open an account with a department store without a male guarantor, couldn’t buy a house, ditto, was expected to leave work on marriage, or was questioned as to when she was going to start a family. Which wasn’t entirely unreasonable as the pill was just getting going then.

  17. Oh what a surprise. Toxic culture is prevalent, Police, Defence, Winz, Legal firms, Government, MSM, RMA, RNZ, TVNZ, Workplace bullying, suicide, self harm etc. Face it, our society is toxic, and these are the consequences. What to do? Be kind to each other, stay locked up at home and all will be good, oh and vote for me!

  18. Wow, racism is alive and well I see. Why does this read “Working Class White People”. Martyn Bradbury, you really need to extend you narrow minded thinking cause I for one, am not white and I work, I pay taxes, and if I had to join the long line of people struggling through this pandemic, I myself would find it a total culture shock.
    So please be mindful of all peoples.

    • What? So you’re just going to ignore every single white person because of “Martyn Bradbury?”

      No matter what you want us to say we are inclusive. Wana be a white supremist, fine go for it. Want to be anti German then fine, go for it. You just can’t kill no one and full employment is greater than ideology.

      Again why the hell are you assuming that anyone who welcomes white working class into the fold is some how racist?

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