BREAKING: NZ in Level 4 until 11.59pm Monday 27th

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Death Cult Capitalism – 0
Common Good – 1

And she’s done it.

Jacinda has announced Level 4 will remain in place until 11.59pm Monday 27th. Tuesday is a Teacher’s only day so Children will be retuning on Wednesday.

Level 3 will stay in place for 2 weeks and Level 2 after that.

Level 3 is still very strict. Think of it as Level 4 but with takeaways.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

The real reason why the extension has occurred is because the Ministry of Health simply don’t have the track-trace-quarantine infrastructure in place and that will be the main tools to stamp out any flair ups of the virus

What we need to start thinking about now is how the country rebuilds from the economic armageddon we now face.

New Zealand has dodged the public health nightmare, we now face just as enormous a threat from the economic fallout.

The borders will remain closed so tourism is out alongside the International Student Industry and migrant worker exploitation.

Until we have a vaccine – which is in of itself a challenge to gain – New Zealand’s economy, culture and politics will be altered forever.

69 COMMENTS

  1. Ardern spends 15 minutes talking about the need to protect public health and then declares the lockdown will be eased for the good of the economy. My bullshit meter will remain at Level 4 for a while yet.

    • Making a career out of missing the point is not going to look god on your resume.. The “bullshit” partisan politics that far too many are still inflicting upon us really has gone past its used by date. If you want to prove some obscure point by locking yourself away for the next couple of months, then be our guest.

  2. 1918 all over again for Maori.
    Genocide revisited.
    The Colonisers are having another crack at wiping Maori out by a “Manufacturing Consent” with 2 weeks of virtual messaging.

    Tino Rangatiratanga time!

    • I have not seen a break down of the percentage of cases that were Maori Pacifica or parkeha do you have them.

    • You can stay indoors with the iwi ‘elite’ who have $millions in their bank accounts to help you! Your choice! I’m back to work next week earning $$$

    • Your salvation is in your own hands. The responsibility to do right by your own is completely up to you. What ever decisions are made in Wellington are made, if you don’t feel that those decisions are helpful, then do what you need to to keep your families see. Don’t be wasting people’s time with petty party political insults.. plenty of time or the once things go moving gain.

    • DennyPaoa: “Genocide revisited.
      The Colonisers are having another crack at wiping Maori out by a “Manufacturing Consent” with 2 weeks of virtual messaging.”

      Oh for chrissakes….enough with the disingenuousness! Here’s why Maori died in such numbers during the 1918 flu epidemic.

      The disproportionate death rate was a result of an unfortunate confluence of factors. Most Maori lived rurally, and therefore missed getting any immunity benefit from the mild first wave of the 1918 epidemic, which affected largely the towns and cities.

      Most Maori were poor, with poorer food and housing. Many also still lived communally, which permitted greater transmission of the flu.

      Tuberculosis was also widespread among Maori, which left them more susceptible.

      And finally, many Maori smoked or chewed tobacco, which also compromised their health. The death rate for Maori women was a reflection of the fact that as many women used tobacco as men.

      https://i.stuff.co.nz/national/health/coronavirus/120880013/coronavirus-mori-have-every-reason-to-be-concerned-about-the-pandemic

        • DennyPaoa: “The settlers brought it here and spread it.”

          Nonsense. That’s a most egregious piece of revisionism. The virus which caused the deadly 1918 flu did what viruses do. Nobody knows for certain how it got here, but it arrived by ship, as did all diseases in those days. There were troops – Maori and Pakeha – returning from Europe, along with ships bringing freight and taking exports away. There were a number of ships visiting NZ at the time, any of which could have brought it. See this:

          https://nzhistory.govt.nz/culture/1918-influenza-pandemic/earlier-outbreaks

          Had you read the link I posted above, you’d have seen that the milder form of the flu which circulated earlier in 1918 had conferred a degree of immunity on many citizens in the cities and towns. East coast Maori had also acquired some immunity during that period.

          You may wish to believe woe-is-me stories of the sort you adduce here; it doesn’t follow that there’s any truth at all to them. It seems to me that you’d do better to read some history. There’s quite a bit of it, and it’s accessible online.

          • Look the government is running above capacity, the place has been run down. The government couldn’t help even if Jacinda wanted to. Once a day someone posts a heart breaking video of the ministry for children uplifting children during this time and I’ll tell them exactly what I’m going to tell you. You’re on your own.

      • DennyPaoa: “Coronavirus: Māori, Pasifika twice as likely to die from COVID-19 than Pākehā.”

        Hahaha….bloody bollocks! Viruses are equal-opportunities threats: they don’t recognise skin colour or culture or eye and hair colour. Or any other damn thing that you fondly imagine differentiates Maori from Pakeha, people from the Pacific Islands, Indians, Chinese or whoever.

        For pity’s sake, go read: Steve Elers, whose comment I posted above, makes exactly the same point. And – a fortiori – he’s Maori.

        I’d add that the stats don’t support the assertion you make above.

  3. Its taken this pandemic to realise we have to fix the health system. That old saying about clouds having silver linings has never been truer. Great decision Jacinda.

    • Kat: “Its taken this pandemic to realise we have to fix the health system.”

      Yup. I’ve said the same thing elsewhere. The best thing that could come out of this ghastly situation is that the government finally accepts the need for our hospitals – and our health system generally – to be properly resourced in all facets of operation. The funding of the health system has been gradually screwed down, beginning when I still worked in it, 30ish years ago.

      However. Everyone needs to remember that the hospital system hasn’t been overwhelmed by coronavirus cases. It actually hasn’t been busy at all: if you want proof, just look at numbers in hospital at any one time.

      And the same has applied to the GP system. Patients cannot use their local medical centres, so there is very little happening in them.

    • Even the COVID 19 virus will NOT fix the rotten NZ health system. It is government propaganda that we get 24/7 at present, all supposedly going so well. Jacinda is an effective propaganda and communication specialist, she will have a great future in marketing.

      The truth at the coalface looks rather different.

  4. And Jacinda is setting herself up to go to and accept a position at the UN after the election, I believe.

    She does not want to go through years of pressure of New Zealand’s economy, culture and politics that will be altered forever.

    • Yes and apparently that “position” at the UN is located on Mars and comes with 26000 sq meter multi story mansion complete with private school and shopping facilities and includes free travel to and from Venus for extended holiday periods with her favourite leaders Xi Jinping,Trumpy, ScoMo and Soimon..

  5. “Simon is campaigning again” – Sam Hayes, News presenter on Channel 3, as mr bridges did just that – continued his rather toxic form of campaigning.

    His campaign so far consists of attacking the govt actions, and of trying to place blame for any and all negative effects of the pandemic entirely on the govt. He said nothing positive at all, nothing helpful. Nothing to inspire or to encourage the people of Aotearoa.

    This, despite having “promised” to put aside any campaigning and to work with the govt in dealing with the pandemic. And again, he hauls out the same untruths about how “Australia is doing it so much better” (a lie – no surprises there).

  6. TBH, would have preferred another 2 weeks at Level 4, simply because unlike the PM I do not trust New Zealanders. The numbers we see today are a reflection of what we doing 2 weeks ago.
    Jacinda has come under enormous pressure from the bizzniss community – the only voice we seem to hear on the “media”, whinging and crying on screen about how they’re doing it so tough. Never mind everyone else.
    Time for a major restructuring of our economy – ie. who employs who, and where the money comes from.

    The right to strike has not been diluted by the current circumstances – in fact, given justifiable safety concerns – it’s never been stronger. The power is in our hands. The last four weeks have revealed who the real parasites are in our society.

    • …” The last four weeks have revealed who the real parasites are in our society”…

      …”The last four weeks have revealed who the real parasites are in our society”…

      …”The last four weeks have revealed who the real parasites are in our society”…

      …”The last four weeks have revealed who the real parasites are in our society”…

      …”The last four weeks have revealed who the real parasites are in our society”…

      ——————-

      Third stone from the sun- Jimy Hendrix ( Reverse)
      https://youtu.be/fbufTbX3Ujw?t=178

    • And you can bet the biznuss community will be the first ones to heap blame on Jacinda if she opens everything up too quickly and the disease rips through the country like it did in Italy, Spain and Wuhan.

  7. wow what a surprise: back to Business as Usual, as soon as possible.

    I can’t decide if now officially having no future in NZ is a bad thing, or “Freeing”.

    People will never learn that you can’t kill an economy. It is, after all, just human activity. We argue how we will be active all the time, but miss the point. Dead humans are reputed to be incapable of activity, but I guess Jacinda “my words mean whatever I want them to mean” Ardern, knows best. If she says, “Virus, be not virus!”, it be not the virus previously described over and over.

    If it only takes one surfer to start it all over again, then two MP’s and several thousand staff will… create outcomes… wait… what? Ok, but what about the virus cycles of two weeks… that means we should work in blocks of two weeks, no wait, one week… huh?

    So there’s some more personal energy saved: don’t have to listen to a word the government says anymore, as logic does not apply.

    Lesser triumphs of this government include wiping out small local business in favour of those big box megastore chains who have online capabilities and distribution centres, and clearing away sickly people for added profitability. But if that gets you down, cheer up, it’s not as bad as actually having to live in NZ. When Jacinda says you will be better off, you will be better off!

  8. Bad decision.
    I had rather hoped that our masters would listen to eminent epidemiologists and virologists rather than professors of sociology, physics, a certain pink-haired individual – and would be persuaded by the data now emerging.
    Two studies (Denmark 1,487 samples and Stanford University 3,300 samples) have arrived at a morbidity rate of .16% and .14% (roughly equivalent to the morbidity rate for seasonal ‘flu).
    The simple and very obvious fact is that this pandemic will end with herd immunity and nothing less than herd immunity – just like all similar pandemics in the past.
    For those who place their faith in vaccination I have some bad news. Apart from the fact that a tested and reputedly safe vaccine is at least 18 months away, vaccines have a dismal record when it comes to corona viruses. Deaths from seasonal ‘flu have not been impacted by the “flu vaccine in recent History. A corona virus is implicated in causing the common cold.
    Everyone is being spooked (a word used by one of the most qualified epidemiologists in the World:

    Dr Sucharit Bhakdi is a specialist in microbiology. He was a professor at the Johannes Gutenberg University in Mainz and head of the Institute for Medical Microbiology and Hygiene and one of the most cited research scientists in German history.
    What he says:
    “We are afraid that 1 million infections with the new virus will lead to 30 deaths per day over the next 100 days. But we do not realise that 20, 30, 40 or 100 patients positive for normal coronaviruses are already dying every day.
    The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous. The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people. The consequences on medical care are profound. Already services to patients in need are reduced, operations cancelled, practices empty, hospital personnel dwindling. All this will impact profoundly on our whole society.”
    All these measures are leading to self-destruction and collective suicide based on nothing but a spook.
    ….. by deaths among the old and vulnerable (I am both of these).
    Nowhere will you see comparative data concerning the usual, expected morbidity rates from seasonal ‘flu in the media. I think we need that information in order to make an informed judgement as to whether the destruction of our economy and way of life is justified.

    • Brewer: “…by deaths among the old and vulnerable (I am both of these).”

      As am I. I agree with everything you say here.

      When the government announced that we’d all be put effectively under house arrest, the PM told us that it was to protect people such as us. She told us what was going to happen: did her government consult us? Nobody asked me, that’s for sure. I have agency: I take a dim view of others making decisions for me regarding my health and my freedoms, without my say-so.

      But looky here: just a day or so ago on Morning Report, when she was being challenged about the fact that Oz’s rules are much looser than ours, yet their results are very similar, she said airily that the reason for the difference was that NZ society is more vulnerable. What? said the interviewer. Yes, she said, we have Maori and Pacific people…no mention of the old and vulnerable: we seem to have fallen off the radar.

      Really: does Ardern seriously expect us to believe this twaddle? As if Oz didn’t have many Maori and Pacific people (and old people, come to that) living there. And of course aborigines. Good grief!

      In any event, the latest bar graph shows clearly that the over-70s make up a very small proportion of cases. And we now know that Maori and Pacific people are also underrepresented in the case numbers.

      So why have we been put through this? Who benefits? I suspect the unvarnished truth is that the government was spooked by the hysterical reportage from overseas. It knew that our health system has been systematically underfunded for at least the last 30 years, and they were afraid that we – the old and the vulnerable – would flood and crash the hospital system.

      Now it is faced with the embarrassing fact that bugger-all people have been sick enough to be in hospital, and even fewer have died. And no: putting us under house arrest only slows spread. It doesn’t alter the progression of the disease. And there have been 1445 cases to date: from what we’ve been told about illness and death rates overseas, both ought to have been much higher than they have been here.

      To be honest, I’m astonished that NZers have just meekly accepted this whole house arrest thing, as if it were unexceptionable. I’ve been sceptical from the outset, and horrified at the degree to which our civil liberties have been crimped: surely there are more of us than just you and me?

      • “To be honest, I’m astonished that NZers have just meekly accepted this whole house arrest thing, as if it were unexceptionable. I’ve been sceptical from the outset, and horrified at the degree to which our civil liberties have been crimped: surely there are more of us than just you and me?”

        Perhaps you might consider that this isn’t just about you, or me, or any other single person, D’Esterre. Our actions have a direct impact of others. If we choose to disregard the lock-down because you “have agency”, then it’s a decision you make that has implications for others.

        We hear the same argument from the Right and business: that individual rights trump collective responsibility and safety. Like having the right to open up hundreds of liquor stores throughout Aotearoa’s poorest areas because those store owner “have agency”.

        If we don’t act collectively to fight a pandemic then we can’t act collectively on any issue. We have asserted the primacy of the Individual over the Collective Good. and Libertarianism, Individualism, the neo-liberal creed of Me First has won.

        “I take a dim view of others making decisions for me regarding my health and my freedoms, without my say-so.”

        That sounds like something a trenchant ACT supporter would say.

        No thanks. I want no bar of that.

        • Frank: enough already with the censoriousness! Give us all a break, for heaven’s sake.

          I’m in the so-called “vulnerable” group, as are the surviving members of my immediate family. I know of nobody at all who has even been diagnosed, let alone got sick or been hospitalised. And when we look at what’s happened here, that’s not surprising. There have been bugger-all hospitalisations, very few deaths (all in the “vulnerable” age group, it must be noted).

          There has been no outbreak in this neck of the woods. Or: if there has, nobody’s getting sick enough to go to the doctor. So we can all stop the obsessive worrying that’s seriously messing with some people’s mental health.

          Given what we’ve been told – repeatedly – by the msm about the situation overseas, it would have been reasonable to have expected many more in hospital, many more deaths here than we’ve had. The virus is no respecter of country borders and the like: it will behave the same way, regardless of where people are, or what their ethnicity may be.

          You’ll be too young to remember the polio outbreaks and epidemics here, but I surely am not. Then as now, quarantining limited the spread of the virus, but those who got it were just as sick. Children my age and older fetched up in hospital: there were deaths, and among the survivors, lifelong disability. Nobody my age could forget the classmates with leg-irons.

          So: with regard to this coronavirus, take a sceptical view of what the msm tells you about what’s been happening overseas. And: just stop worrying. You’re very unlikely to get it, and even were you so unlucky, your chances of dying are, by the looks of it, slightly lower than if it were the seasonal flu afflicting you.

          “That sounds like something a trenchant ACT supporter would say.”

          I am – I judge – quite a bit older than you. And I’m an old lefty. Though I’m a boomer, so born very soon after the war, nevertheless I’m much closer than you to the first-hand accounts of what happened during that time.

          Freedom of speech, freedom to question and scrutinise government actions – and the freedom to exercise agency over our own lives – are core post-war values. And there is no time than right now at which that has been more important.

          You use the term “ACT” as a pejorative: I do not see it that way. Far better the values of individual freedom espoused by the ACT party, than the self-righteous woke leftery to which we have been subjected in recent times. Down that road lies fascism: of all commenters here, I’d have expected that it would be you, inveighing against the crimping of our liberties entailed by the house arrest to which most of us have been subjected over the last month.

          • D’Esterre
            “Frank: enough already with the censoriousness! Give us all a break, for heaven’s sake.”

            Be nice lad.
            Frank has an opinion and usually backed with more research and cogitation than most. I and many others welcome such input as mind food.
            As a pre boomer, I well remember taking time off school for the polio epidemic and doing assignments through correspondence school at home.
            We also had family members who remembered vividly the 1918 flu and an earlier bout in the late 1890s in which we lost children

            There was not a referendum for the polio bout school closure nor should there have been. The powers of emergency can be invoked by Govt and acted upon as has been done just recently.

            “Down that road lies fascism: of all commenters here, I’d have expected that it would be you, inveighing against the crimping of our liberties entailed by the house arrest to which most of us have been subjected over the last month.”

            Your use of the word “fascism” is curious.

            The house arrest is also puzzling but seems to have become a term used by a few enjoying hyperbole.

            But the more general comments you have made I agree with regarding few or no local infection being know, and some sector of the population having few cases of Covid19.
            That may well be regarded as supporting the effectiveness of measures that have been in place.
            Obviously for Air NZ staff and some health and aged care workers, those measures have not been rigorous enough. PPE stocks are lacking through insufficient preparation before the event.

            I too have family members and many friends in the vulnerable group for various reasons, and all of whom are complying closely with recommended practices the best they can, happily.

    • Brewer
      Herd immunity is hardly a predictable outcome when to date there is no evidence of it being an outcome. Reinfection is being discussed and the reasons for it happening seems to be some variability with circumstances. Also there appears to be variation with covid19 outbreaks of varying origins and genomes.

      Your choice of data and selected opinions don’t make much sense.
      Of course figures about the common flu are well known and not relevant in discussing measure for covind19.

      In spite of lockdown there has been transmission which will continue until we achieve elimination.

      “The government’s anti-COVID19 measures] are grotesque, absurd and very dangerous. The life expectancy of millions is being shortened. The horrifying impact on the world economy threatens the existence of countless people.”

      Thats a bold statement and perhaps you feel that, way but it does not reflect reality.

      The vaccination subject is extremely complex as to what may be likely and what outcomes may be with effectiveness, side affects and whether immunity can be achieved even in the short term.
      China may well have some useful information soon available.

      Comparing NZ with Australia means making many assumptions without clinical data nor a through analysis of the varying condition involved. A comparison otherwise is pretty useless.

  9. The timing is not as fixed as you explain it Bomber. The idea is that each move to a lower level is not automatic, each move will be carefully assessed before it happens. We have to trust in the tools for assessment.

    I was relieved we are not going out of level 4 tomorrow. BUT I feel Denny Poua’s trepidation and the uncertainty around the lethal nature of this virus. How ridiculous ‘business as usual’ is such a big deal. Survival of people tops everything.

    We should be putting big business under state control, so we, the people, can control it. Many Maori have argued for Maori to run things Maori. That would be a precedent for non-Maori to do the same.

    • Our health system is run by the government and it is hardly a example of a smooth running operation.Are you suggesting the same ego driven so called public servants could do a good job of running our businesses. Pre Douglas we saw the political football played with the likes of Kiwi rail to win votes. In this COL we see this happening with the Provincial Grow Fund a great idea but used to feather the nests of Shane’s Jones mates

  10. Guess what happens next? MSD/WINZ will contact all those employers to offer up beneficiaries for jobs. Cheaper & with subsidies!

    Employers will love this! “Give me more money!” Meanwhile layoffs and redundancies will be massive!

    • I’m of the opinion that any large concern over a certain number of employees should be staring down the barrel of being nationalized if they want to continue pushing the envelope.

      Whether that be food production or aluminium production,…if they want to test the winds and try abusing their workers with mass redundancy’s and wreck our economy by doing so , a good sharp slap over their snouts may be just enough to cause them to pull their heads in.

      Either that , or ‘suffer the consequences’ to term a 1990’s phrase.
      Because as we all know,… ” whats good for the goose , is good for the gander”.

      We owe all these big concerns nothing but a right royal kick up the backside.

    • Too late comrade. Haven’t you heard? Even the Taxpayers “Union” is socialist now.
      Bloody bludgers!
      In my day we had work 20 hour days and eat dirt to survive. *grumbles & fiddles with radio dial trying to find Newstalk ZB*.

      Any moves to socialism now would be timely and may just save the planet and it’s residents from over exploitation.
      FIFY

    • Too late. Already have. Bailouts for businesses!

      How else does Capitalism get to live another day.

  11. I predicted that we would go to Level 3 after ANZAC Day.
    Though I have to admit, I had a wee bit of assistance. Admittably I was a bit sceptical about buying it at first, but that crystal ball from the 2 dollar store sure comes in handy sometimes

  12. An ok outcome in the circumstances.
    Time for me to time out again for a while, I’m tired of posts being censored, most of mine are now and I have better things to do, including some more essential work would you believe.
    Be happy, one eyed partisanship is not the answer.

  13. My recent experiences with the Ministry of Health are abysmal. Emails not answered, well paid health bureaucrats not showing any accountability for real issues that exist.

    If we are supposed to rely on their ‘leadership’, we may as well pack in and let the virus run its course.

  14. And Jacinda wants to make us believe we will actually wipe out the virus here in Nirvana NZ Inc.. So to ensure that will happen and remain to be the situation for the future, we will have to stop all movements of humans in and out of the country, as the humanity outside NZ will be so infected en masse, many being un-symptomatic, we will be unable to ensure any migrant or tourist, or NZer travelling out and into the country will not have had contact with potentially infected persons.

    Or will we quarantine and test persons into eternity, well at least until a vaccine is available and used?

  15. Oh Hang on then, whats tikanga and toanga?

    Really lets hear it…

    I must admit ,..I was really very , very drunk at the time…it would be nice to hear it….

    So lets hear it….

    • Wild Katipo: “whats tikanga and toanga?
      Really lets hear it…”

      I think that you’ll be waiting a wee while for that….

  16. Basically a pragmatic decision.
    But I wonder how well it will work with some schools and pre-school learning centres reopening.
    How do you practice “social distancing” with pre-school kids?
    It will be hard, and I can understand why a lot of them are nervous about it.

  17. Apparently many Kiwis found mr bridges response, yesterday, to be repugnant:

    Bridges’ repeated mantra, that sometimes “the medicine is worse than the cure”, both made little sense (the traditional saying is that sometimes the cure is worse than the disease) and came uncomfortably close to US President Donald Trump’s arguments for reopening the economy despite his country’s death toll passing 40,000.

    His pining for an approach closer to that of Australia also rang false, given many experts have said the two countries are more similar than they are different at present (even though you can get a haircut across the ditch).

    Bridges would have expected criticism from the Twitterati – but even he may have been taken aback by the torrent of negative remarks on his Facebook page, while not all in his caucus seemed happy with his approach. Sam Sachdeva – Bridges Missteps

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