Dear Comrades on the Left – cheering Police abuse of power against gun nuts isn’t worthy of our movement & Simon Bridges ‘fear’ of a politicised Police force is a tad rich

1. The ‘woke twitter’ types control the Left now. The state of NZ politics is only going to get worse, and they will be driving a lot of it.

   • No way. Woke Twitter controls the lavatories. Woke Twitter blooms when debating and ideas retreat.

   • Sure looks that way Sean doesn’t it.
     Read the comments on the related articles on fb, it’s shocking how many people cheerlead the loss of others civil liberties and basic rights out of blind ideology and hate of the “other”.
     In war time various names have been given to such people, it is a mentality that allows the worst abuses of civil liberties by authority.
     Worth dwelling on for Martyn too with his constant “gun nut” smear for those he doesn’t understand.
     Good government is for all of a population, not just those you agree with.
     The woke are well on their way to seeing their team is a one term government and most of them won’t see it coming such is their self righteous denial of reality.
     A who-knows-how-sketchy survey by new conservatives reckons 46 percent of gun owners who replied, are changing their votes over the gun law debacle. That’s about 120000 votes looking for a home and I’ll tell you where that home isn’t.

     • Keepcalm, I don’t know how accurate the NC survey you speak of is, but as a farmer who has lost over 30,000 trees to feral goats and now lost the rifle I needed to control them I am very disgruntled voter (and anyone who believes in tree planting for climate change mitigation should be equally annoyed). If the election was tomorrow my family would represent 5 first time votes for ACT, partly over the firearms knee-jerk, but also over free speech, and woke issues generally. I don’t feel like my politics have changed, just that the left are now about the woke and no longer represent the working class, and in particular the more socially conservative working class epitomised in some of our Pacifica communities. Also the current Govt needs to understand that small business owners in NZ are also usually working class people (not ‘rich pricks’), and should be supported rather than burdened more and more.

       • I couldn’t agree with you more Ben.

       • Its not all about you Ben you vote act you vote for the rich pricks anyway cause that is all the one man party cares about. see-more is happy for low income people to languish on low wages and insecure work at a time when housing costs are at an all time high and act supported selling off two thousand state homes. Homelessness was exacerbated by acts and nationals’ policies. Two policies that attributed to homelessness and more inequalities are more immigrants (for cheap labour and selling of assets) now isn’t that interfering with the market and isn’t the market suppose to provide through competition driving down costs. Did this happen to our power nah! it keeps going up.

         • Fun fact, ACT formed as a spin off from the Labour Party.
           The only option left to those deplatformed by this is to speak at the ballot box,
           It is the only message politicians understand.
           And what is worse, neoliberals that value your personal freedom or neoliberals that pretend they aren’t, that consider themselves our moral guardians?

         • Amusing you attack one mob for selling houses yet say nothing about the current one who are currently, yes today right this very minute, pulling down state houses by the 100’s. They could sell them off and give someone a dwelling but no, they could sell the house off the site for $1 and give someone a cheap dwelling but no. The current government is destroying houses, literally, hand over fist. There are empty sections, some for well over a year now just covered in weeds doing nothing. There are a shit load of others just boarded up doing nothing.

           In the 25 years we have lived deep in a neighbourhood with a very high proportion of state housing we have never ever seen so many empty, never seen so many empty for so long (the turnaround between tenants is…or was only 2 -3 weeks but 2 next door have been empty for over a year and 2 more were boarded up in November.

           To suggest the previous govt was worse for housing in NZ, state in particular, than the current one is blatantly both groundless and ludicrous.

           And to Ben, I haven’t voted for a few elections as the Natz and Liebour are one in the same, fucken self centred greedy panty stains more concerned about themselves than NZers, and there has been no other options of worth. But I have recently started to admire, just a little, Seymours work ethic and passion, it is a little unusual to see that in a NZ MP. If he keeps that up I may just take 5 minutes out of my life to vote for him next time.

           • Who holds the record for selling of unprecedented state houses and who on record built the most state housing Mr Barry. And who said quote ‘there is no housing crisis’ for 9 long years like a scratched record.

           • Well vote for see- more Mr Barry and we wont see- any-more state houses

2. From that linked page (main article):
   Simon Bridges fears the police are being influenced by politicians and is urging the Police Commissioner to “guard against politicisation” of the police force.

   “Police being influenced by politicians…” That rings a bell.

   13th August 2014 Nicky Hager’s book, ‘Dirty Politics’, was released. That book contained sufficient evidence of corruption against then Minister of Justice, Ms Collins, that by the end of the month she resigned.

   Barely a month later, in the first days of October, Nicky Hager’s home was raided. Five police officers arrived and spent ten hours searching his house. They took “a large collection of papers and electronic equipment belonging to my family, including computers, drives, phones, CDs, an iPod and a camera,” he wrote on his website at the time.

   Standard practice in a search for evidence of hacking? Yet no such raid was carried out on National Party staffer Jason Ede, who had been directly accused of hacking (into the Labour Party website).

   Simon crying “Politicisation of the police force…”
   Yeah. Right.

   • And, to understand the import of that, think of all the info you keep on your computer and phone, and any backups. Think what it would mean for your day to day life to have all that suddenly removed. For Nicky it was worse. This was his livelihood, his life in effect. They may as well have cut off his arms and legs, in terms of the crippling effect that must have had on his life at that time.

3. The gun buy back was a disaster for Labour the cause was correct but they tried to do it on the cheap and did not get those they needed to win over on side. Now the police are the enemy to otherwise law abiding citizens. Gun crime continues so we know there are many weapons out there and the only one pounced on is a right wing blogger. I listen to the National station news and the basis of this police swoop was question on 2 occasions and then it vanished. I thought this was going to be the most open government yet.

   • Trevor,

     The gun buy back was most definitely not a disaster for Labour. You’ve been reading far too many of Bridges “hit jobs” and water on a stone trolling from Nat Party cheerleaders. From the moment the Me Me Me Latrine Rodent were sent packing, the narrative has been the same. The Coalition Government won’t last six months. The Sky is falling in. Everything they do is a disaster. They won’t last a year. They will only be a one term Government bla bla bla.

     How National can ever criticize the efforts of another Government in the area of housing is beyond me. Their indifference toward an unfolding housing crisis was absolutely staggering. They should be the very last people in our beautiful country to bleat about the subject.

     The Gun lobby have been wielding their political power year in year out. How dare anyone challenge the status quo. That amounts to the same audacity for any party in NZ to ever think they could Govern NZ. Only National of course are worthy of Governing.

     Ardern had to do something when the massacre unfolded in Christchurch. We are all sick to death of the same fucking bullshit narrative that gets spouted out by Trump every time there is yet another massacre of innocent young people in the States. “Our thoughts and prayers” go out to the family and loved ones of all the innocent young people slaughtered in their prime by those who routinely exploit the second amendment to the United States Constitution ….you know, that’s the amendment regarding the right to bear arms. Unfortunately, back in 1791 the founding fathers were talking about a completely different arms to bear than what we have now. A revolutionary era soldier for example could fire off three musket shots in 60 seconds. A modern AR-15 can fire off 100 rounds in ten seconds. They are light years apart in the damage they can cause yet both fall under the same right to bear arms amendment. Ardern had to act and she needed to do so quickly. We all appreciate the gun lobby would have preferred they just stick to the tired old useless “thoughts and prayers” horse shit. Anything else to them is a disaster. The saddest part of all this is the gun lobby being the ones with the loudest voice when that should be the families who’ve had to endure the pointless execution of their treasured family member by some shitheel and his / her rights.

     • I own guns. I am fully licensed and have been since I was 16. My licence renewal, a very onerous exercise, has been conducted twice at the dwelling I currently still live in so the Govt is 101% aware of how to contact me re firearms or any other matter.

       As I write this I still have no idea if my guns are legal, nor do I know where to find out, nor have I received even 1 single word in any form what so ever from the Govt about the rule changes. All I know is what I’ve seen in the media and a lot of that is conflicting and confusing. 2 of my cousins are in the exact same boat.

       Your definition of success would suggest your bar has been set incredibly low.

       • Peter,

         I wouldn’t concern yourself with where I set the bar. What is far more relevant is that you and your two cousins who own guns still don’t know if your guns are in fact legal despite all the publicity and potential penalties etc.

         I can’t speak Maori but I don’t believe any Government for that. If the motivation was strong enough, I’d learn Maori very quickly. Do you think a Judge will give you a free pass for owning illegal guns if your only defense is that you felt the information available in the media was conflicting and confusing? Surely, you have a responsibility as a gun owner to get all the important facts about legality from more than just the media?

         As for my definition of success. Where in my statement did I say it was? What I did say was the gun buy back was not the disaster for Labour that Trevor and co were portraying it as. They are politicians so it stands to reason there will be fuck ups along the way. Bottom line is there are now less semi automatic rifles around to fall into the wrong hands. Finding out who those wrong hands belong to is another ball game altogether. One thing we need to do as a country is not make it easy for extremist fuckheads and gangsters to obtain rifles that could wipe out an entire high school for example before the Police even arrived on scene. Ardern has gone some way along the right path in achieving this. She had to do something and quickly. Surely you agree with that?

         How has doing nothing except offering their oh so helpful “thoughts and prayers” worked for the United States?

         • Jacindafan the guy is just being honest that the information on what’s banned a) isn’t clear due to rushed clumsy wording and b) has changed multiple times which the powers that be can do with no warning.
           How is that his fault?
           Your mob want to give him 5 years in jail if he gets it wrong from your horrendous fuck up.
           The correct information is not available and the phone line will give different answers depending on who you get.
           An absolute debacle.
           Thankfully I’ve only ever owned bolt action guns or Gd be in the same boat.
           You are missing two other important pints from your spiel-

           The majority of the tiny hand back are not MSSAs, case in point the .22 lever action this raid was over (which he didn’t have).

           But most importantly, if you are claiming political success from driving likely over 100000 guns underground in to the grey and black markets, then you are a fool.

           • Keepcalmcarryon,

             For the second time, I haven’t claimed the gun buy back is a political success. Even if it was, the gun lobby and anti “my mob” would never in ten life times acknowledge it as being so.

             Labour isn’t “my mob”. I’ve spent my life journey viewing most politicians and political parties with disdain. Same applies now for the vast majority. I do respect Ardern and Peters. I have a reluctant tentative respect for several others but in my opinion, the rest are not worth a pinch of shit. I admit to having complete contempt for Bridges and Bennett. Both are latrine rodents that give politicians everywhere a bad name.

             Most of what you say is clearly coming from an anti “my mob” perspective. Where did you pluck the 100000 number of guns going underground from? I strongly suggest right out of your arse. There has always been an underground market for firearms in NZ. Always will be. The big change now is the penalty for owning certain guns. If you want to own a toy like that and you get busted, tough shit. You had fair warning. Meanwhile, semi automatic weapons will continue to arrive in NZ via our considerable free pass coastline. At least now those caught in possession can’t claim ignorance or no speak da English.

             I can’t say if the gun buy back was a success or not. Time will tell. What I can say is this. Ardern had to do something. Thoughts and prayers just don’t cut the mustard. There is also a shitload of epic killing machine type weapons no longer in circulation. Anyone who thinks that is a disaster for our country needs to dial back their medication.

             You agree that Ardern needed to act quickly with a gun buy back? I appreciate the “act in haste, repent at leisure” mindset, but when you see 51 New Zealanders including children mercilessly executed, you have to act urgently to prevent a repeat. Can you imagine the outrage if another massacre went down while Ardern sat on her hands having an extended consultation process?

             It’s my contention that the vast majority of the faux outrage we hear spouted about the gun buy back comes from vested interest groups who just happen to despise Labour regardless.

             My belief is that the biggest error of the buy back is to destroy all the weapons purchased. There will be ample avenues available worldwide to sell them legally and recoup at least some tax payer funds. I appreciate that may appear hypocritical but our goal is to make our country safer, not change the way other countries view firearms.

             If what you’re saying about confusing messages about gun legality has merit, lawyers will be all over it and clarification will result. Nobody will be doing 5 years if a genuine misunderstanding with merit can be proven. Just to get things back to reality, Judges in NZ have compared pedophiles collecting appalling photos of children being abused, to stamp collectors collecting stamps. Don’t be concerned with innocent gun owners going to jail for 5 years over a legitimate misunderstanding, be concerned about innocent children begging extremists carrying an AR-15 for mercy just moments before being executed. They are the people most in need of our concern.

             • the vast majority of the faux outrage we hear spouted about the gun buy back comes from vested interest groups

               Exactly!

               who just happen to despise Labour regardless.

               • Bollocks.
                 Go and talk to some gun owners.

                 • I do – too often. Fact of life where I live.

                 • Pretty much everyone around where I live owns one. Incl family and friends.

                 • I know some of this stuff from the inside, mate. And it’s a multi-pronged question. Here, there’s farmers, stag hunters, goat shooters, as well as gangs, and several Marae… AND many on Meths! AND a few ex-army blokes w/ their stashes. Take yr pick. We’ve been thru it!

                   • Deer hunters. They are called deer hunters in NZ.
                     Sounds like you are all over it.

             • extremists carrying an AR-15

               “Hello, brother” …echoed around the world

             • I strongly suggest you open yours eyes Jacindafan.
               KPMG estimated 56000 to 173000 guns were now illegal.
               High end police estimates given to ministers are 240000.
               With respect, from who’s backside did you receive the idea you (being a jacindafan after all) haven’t driven all those other guns underground? Because with the upcoming law changes they cannot be registered hence are ALL grey and black market guns.
               Get it?
               This (restricting certain semi autos) needed doing properly, with full compensation and listening to the firearm owning community, not insulting, threatening and not paying full value for seized goods.
               Gangs who said they wouldn’t give guns in got a cup of tea and asked nicely. Innocent gun owner got armed raid in front of his kids.
               Could they have done any worse?

               • Keepcalmcarryon,

                 You seem determined to misrepresent what I say.

                 Yes, I’m a Jacinda fan. I make no secret of that but don’t mistake that for me believing she can do no wrong. On this very forum, I strongly objected to Ardern chopping Shane Jones off at the knees regarding threats the Indian community leaders made about the Government having the audacity to not place the same value and merit on Indian arranged marriages as they do on conventional Western marriages. Jones rightly said if the Indian community are going to bitch and moan about it, call our Government racist and make threats, the airport is that way —–> Jones had the support of a great many Kiwi’s but Ardern overruled him and caved in to Indian threats. In my opinion, it was the biggest blunder Ardern has made. It devalued NZ marriages, it totally undermined an important coalition partner and buckled to threats. Lose, lose, lose. The only winners there are Indians and all those from that part of the world who use arranged marriages as a key component to immigration fraud. I support Ardern but not blindly or without condition.

                 Interesting that you make no mention of all the innocent victims that have been executed via semi automatic firearms but repeatedly talk about the poor old gun owners and now the poor old provocative right wing blogger having his home searched in front of his children after making comments online about certain firearms / components. If he wishes to draw attention to himself and then paint himself as a martyr for gun owning Government haters, then boo fucking hoo. Once again I repeat, my concern is with all the innocent victims of firearms. Any thoughts on them? Not even anything perfunctory?

               • Also, re gangs owning guns. Once again, this has been the case since Adam was a cowboy. Why would they surrender certain firearms? Being in a position where you have less firepower than rival gangs is hardly a position many gangs would embrace. If a gang resides at a gang pad, there will always be prospects around who will take one for the team. That aside, when was the last time that multiple innocent members of the community were gunned down in NZ by gang members? In general terms, gang members are only interested in conflict with other gang members.

                 As for paying “full compensation” at gun buy backs. There will be those who lose out but I distinctly recall some gun owners at buy backs being delighted with the amount they were paid out. Swings and roundabouts. In regard consulting with firearm owning community. Really? How long would that process take? 2 years? 5 years? Maybe long enough for there to be a change of Government where the new crowd promised to look after gun owners. Ardern had to move and she did. Lets face it, the only action most gun owners would have preferred is no action whatsoever. That wasn’t an option for Ardern and she was in no mood to play that charade.

               • Not 5 years in Prison and no howls of protest.

                 The maximum penalty for an offence is invariably never reflected by the actual sentence in court.

                 https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/118814597/man-caught-with-banned-firearm-procrastinated-about-handing-it-in

                 • Lol

                   The guy doesn’t have a gun license.

                   5 years jail is only for license holders.
                   Gangs and garden variety ferals don’t even get a raid.
                   They get a cup of tea and no jail.

                   Look where your semi autos are turning up.
                   What a massive success.

             • “There is also a shitload of epic killing machine type weapons no longer in circulation.”

               I think this, inadvertently, illustrates the major issue with the rushed and confused nature of the legislation changes, that also allowed the disturbing new Police powers to be pushed through with little serious debate on their coat-tails.

               Minister Nash has said the firearms prohibited were only those intended to kill people, not those for hunting deer/pigs/rabbits. This is either an enormous lie or enormous incompetence because its just not true. Two thirds of the firearms handed in were not semi-auto centrefire.

     • When they were debating the law change the estimate was 150000 guns and buy back could cost in the range of $2 billion. The figures so far are 56000 guns handed in at a cost of $64m so there are a lot of guns still out there. The ones handed in would be from those who cannot risk getting on the wrong side of the law but many of those would be angry at Labour for the imposition .

4. ” Open government ” yeah like that was ever going too happen !!
   Just another thing Jacinda should never have promised it is making her and her colleagues look foolish.
   The Key – English years have had a lasting impact on how i view our government and my fellow New Zealanders who vote for these people without ever stopping too think of the damage they have caused.
   That along with the MSM have made me deeply cynical about the country i live in but that is the outcome of decades of pure market ideology that despite the current government has not changed it is just that our PM has become another celebrity in an age of fashionable icons , Key led the way on that with his behaviour that would never have been countenanced by Kiwis in years gone by.
   Bridges and his own party are responsible for the politicization of the police and was used very effectively by Key and his political thugs too exact revenge on journalists and others only a few short years ago and Key has escaped any tarnish on his political legacy or been held too account.
   Even Collins is dirty but goes on with media glorification of her possible accession too the top job , yet her behaviour is not even questioned as making her totally unacceptable as a possible PM.
   These are our new standards for leadership ?
   And Bridges is upset about the gangs !!!
   It is hard not too be cynical when i look around at the country i was once so proud of.
   It has been stolen away in front of our very eyes.

   • totally unacceptable as a possible PM.

     Or as an M.P.!!! … if there were any intention at all to clear out the rot and clean up our democracy.

   • It is hard not to be cynical when i look around at the country i was once so proud of.
     It has been stolen away in front of our very eyes.

     That spirit that we’ve been so proud of is still there. We just need to get ready now, to restore it. Or to at least begin to do so.

5. Its not all about you Ben you vote act you vote for the rich pricks anyway cause that is all the one man party cares about. see-more is happy for low income people to languish on low wages and insecure work at a time when housing costs are at an all time high and act supported selling off two thousand state homes. Homelessness was exacerbated by acts and nationals’ policies two policies that attributed to homelessness and more inequalities are more immigrants (for cheap labour and selling of assets) now isn’t that interfering with the market and isn’t the market suppose to provide through competition driving down costs. Did this happen to our power nah! it keeps going up.

6. Two things will define the outcome of the general election:

   1. NZF will be wiped out

   2. ACT will bring in a couple more MPs

   Go figure the consequences – all good in my opinion.

   • Andrew,

     National and their supporters are desperately clinging on to your perspective.

     Unfortunately for them, your perspective is totally wrong in at least one area. NZF is not going anywhere. Forget all the Nat supporters spouting off how they voted for NZF in 2017 but won’t again bla bla bla. Anyone who underestimates Peters and his ability to time his election run to perfection is not learning a thing from history. Peters has many gears in his machine. He’s presently in first gear. He has many aces up his sleeve. No point in running your race before the race has even started.

     • Some truth in Winston never gone when you think he is, but he’s damaged his base badly over his support for the way this law was done.
       It will be an interesting election that’s for sure.

       • Most interesting in my 50 odd years for sure. Any hope of it being a good clean fight?

         0%

   • I would think the Greens could be under 5 % as they have done little for the enviroment and spent most of their energy as social warriors. It will be an interesting election.

   • yes andrew act will take some of nationals votes hoorah! is that what your saying

7. Banned from TDB (a public platform after all) for expressing views contrary to Bradbury, his TDB brown shirts & all the middle class chardonnay socialists & fake radicals who follow him. Be courageous DB & publish this with an attached statement of banishment. Nah, to gutless I suspect.

8. ” It will be an interesting election ”

   No ! the outcome will be the same…. the status quo.

   It is always the same bullshit and promises of brighter futures ( for the usual suspects ) or ” Lets do this ”
   but can’t and won’t but the stardust and cliches will look like we are.

   Just the same has beens collecting their salaries , superannuation and perks in return for political favours done for the fishing industry as an example.

   For most of us it is post November or earlier election day life still goes on with another biased election campaign and coverage is done and dusted.

   The more things change the more they stay the same.

9. Carryon wrote January 16, 2020 at 3:32 pm

   Deer hunters. They are called deer hunters in NZ.
   Sounds like you are all over it

   Ahh – We can call them what we like, mate. And no, I’m not going to give you specific directions to the farm/ station I’m on, which you seem to be angling for. Enough!

   • PS: There’s a few choice words that I would like to call some of them around here… Am exercising considerable restraint in not doing so.

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