Don’t dare take my criticism of Labour or Greens as support for the malicious National Party!

By
Martyn Bradbury
-
69
6083

I’m fairly critical of Labour and the Greens.

The lack of a truly transformative agenda is a bitter pill to swallow after the excitement of Jacinda’s rhetoric and empathy.

We believed in her.

We haven’t seen much transformation.

Some of us feel slightly betrayed.

Even the so called wins are petty baby steps from a sleeping infant. Carbon neutral in 31 years isn’t a meaningful response to the unfolding real time climate crisis; the pathetic direction given to WINZ has allowed for a jump in overpayments and getting beneficiaries into debt (the State then view that debt as an asset!!!); acute poverty isn’t decreasing with more suicides and 14000 on emergency housing waiting lists.

The working lives of Gen X, Gen Y, Millennials and Gen Z are precarious and gig economy based while trans-national corporations plunder the economy without paying tax to benefit that economy.

Generations are locked out of home ownership and don’t have social equity stakes in their communities .

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

While the lack of transformative policy is a dead rat to consume, the perfect must never defeat the good and the leadership Jacinda has shown at moments of crisis made us a better people and a better nation. I would prefer her leadership a thousand times to that of the bloody National Party!

The audacity for National to hold up the negative social stats when it was their decade of underinvestment that has contributed to this bitter harvest is not only intellectually bankrupt, it’s down right deceitful.

The social media campaign National are running are grotesque manipulations and  half-truths, full lies, but watching them cry crocodile tears over the spiteful legacy of their own draconian welfare policies is the height of philosophical dishonesty.

So don’t dare take my criticism of Labour or Greens as support for the malicious National Party!

Ever.

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69 COMMENTS

  1. “The lack of a truly transformative agenda is a bitter pill to swallow after the excitement of Jacinda’s rhetoric and empathy.”
    And;
    “Some of us feel slightly betrayed.”
    So? How does that roll with you then @MB for having a more than twenty year personal relationship with Adern and her partner Gayford?
    I’ve had fatal falling’s out with friends over questionable loyalties and dubious agenda’s so how do you do it?
    Serious question.
    I’m going to go with Vivianne Westwood here when she was asked her opinion on the attacks on the Twin Towers.
    She said and I quote ” I’m going with what my eyes saw, and my eyes saw a demolition job. ”
    See? That’s good enough for me. She was there. She saw what was happening, she’s an astute business person with a world of life experiences and she saw what she saw.
    When I look at our politics through Vivianne Westwood’s eyes I see multiples of swindles.
    But our swindles aren’t the sort of swindles the cops can get a bite on. The architects of the swindles made sure of that when they designed [them].
    Our swindles are the kind of swindles we need to be French to see and to sort.
    But we’re not French, are we? That should be obvious.
    While jimbo bolger renegade on increasing the old age pension as he promised he would to get that grey-vote demographic, he instead had to bail the crooked bnz out with tax payer money to the tune of about $300 million dollars. But then it get magnificently hilarious. He INCREASED the age of retirement to 65! Ba ! Ba hahahahaha !
    But wait? There’s always more ! ?
    Once WE paid for the, some would argue, deliberate crippling of the bnz, Fay/Richwhite Group bought the tax-paid-for patched up bnz then sold it to Australia for millions and lets not forget what ron brierly did to our domestic industries which put thousands of people out of work and set AO/NZ back to pre ww2 levels of austerity?
    But wait?
    We all know who set those particularly shrivelled old balls in motion, don’t we?
    Yes. It was the labour party who kicked off that fiasco.
    ( And it was only a fiasco if you were not the few who made vast fortunes out of that neoliberal misery foisted on us many. )
    When I put on my Vivianne Westwood goggles and gaze at national and labour and their sundry struggling little fly hangers on parties I see swindles, swindles, swindles.
    But do we go all French on the fuckers? No. We go all sheep. We crowd in to a corner of the paddock they have us locked in to and bleat and complain and squabble amongst ourselves while very clever and well educated people have us think there are alternatives when there are none.
    Except, of course, direct action, rioting, striking and marching with pitch forks and flaming torches.
    When one think’s about it? Those scum who did [this] to [us]?
    They can still walk about the streets in broad daylight, seemingly immune to any of the dissent they rightfully deserve. Amazing.
    labour? national? But, they’re the very same thing.
    Clearly, nothing’s changed for us, so they must be.
    What, about that, is difficult to understand?
    The 2020 ‘election’ ? It doesn’t matter. Voting without the backbone to defend our democracy is nothing more than a pointless custom.

    • Do you have a reference for your Westwood quote? I couldn’t seem to find it. This comparison highlights the issues with your claims. Vivian isn’t an engineer, she was an eye witness. just because she was there doesn’t give her view anymore creedence. There same applies to your comparisons with the government. You start with a fallacy that if you observe something to be true it must be true. This is known as the psychologist’s fallacy. No person is infallible, despite what they think. Instead you need to look deeper into the facts figures and machinations to develop a more holistic view. For an example here is an engineering breakdown of what happened with the twin towers https://www.thoughtco.com/why-world-trade-center-towers-fell-177706

  2. There is somuch trutyh in what you say Matryn.

    We are all faily disapoiinted in the loss of “Jacindamania” as our perfect future she made us believe in her for.

    The media has been constantly undermining her credibility also by giving far more “credability to the gressy “brycream kid” we know as Simon Bridges:

    Simo n is one who is a “ghost of Steven Joyce” in all our eyes.

    Simply the labour party with help from NZ first need to get that “free to air public voice” channel up and runing sooon to “neutatlise the biased media” selling doom and gloom to us all ahead of the 2020 election.

    As we fear that if Labour coalition have no voice for the people all will be lost to ua all.

  3. While the lack of transformative policy is a dead rat to consume, the perfect must never defeat the good and the leadership Jacinda has shown at moments of crisis made us a better people and a better nation. I would prefer her leadership a thousand times to that of the bloody National Party!

    …” The audacity for National to hold up the negative social stats when it was their decade of underinvestment that has contributed to this bitter harvest is not only intellectually bankrupt, it’s down right deceitful.

    The social media campaign National are running are grotesque manipulations and half-truths, full lies, but watching them cry crocodile tears over the spiteful legacy of their own draconian welfare policies is the height of philosophical dishonesty ”…

    ————————————

    Oh yes , …the two Board members of the Mont Pelerin society , Roger Douglas and Ruth Richardson kicked us in the balls fair and square ,- along with a few corrupt Union leaders who were in cahoots with them…. and we have never recovered.

    And so that is the price we pay.

    And Labour have still not apologized… which leads one to question,… do they still harbour the same neo liberal scum ( in spirit ) as they did in the 1980’s?

    All that aside… I still support this coalition above anything the odious and corrupt National / ChiNational party of the last decade,… actually in fact , despite people not liking him,… even Sir Rob Muldoon… at least he was in image / theory / economics more akin to the Kiwi battler….

    But support Adern we must, … if anything for the fact that this admission by her about some future euphoric restoration to the NZ public , a softer society , a more equitable society ,…justify’s deeper questioning… such as … JUST WHY did Labour not apologize, and WHY did Labour not renege on neo liberalism and JUST WHY did the ChiNational party under Bolger and Richardson carry on the same Labour / Mont Pelerin society agenda against the democratic will?

    Personally I think its time for all NZ current politicians to fuck off.

    I’ve said the F word. I shouldn’t have.

    But that includes you , Winfred, great political leader as you are. You have all been ineffectual to the point of gross negligence in rolling back the neo liberal agenda.

    For 35 years we have had to put up with this shit, and the best years of my working life were raped because of it. There are many more just like me. There are many small children who died in moldy damp state houses during the John Key years from preventable third world diseases , according to eminent medical officials reports.

    Let alone Pike River and the neo liberals penchant for rip shit and bust profits and wrecking unions and mines inspectors.

    You murderous bastards.

    We have questions.

    Many of them.

      • I used to say that the far right wing and the far left wing are wings of the same bird so far outstretched that they met in the middle: aka totalitarianism.

        I still believe that to be true.

        Nowadays, however , we have the Afro American term ” stay woke”… which has morphed into the word we now know as the ‘ woke left’.

        It is the ‘woke left’ that now replaces the far left in its totalitarian agenda. Both the far right and the woke left are the enemy’s of the working people. And nowadays the ‘ working people’ include middle class workers- your technicians, semi professionals and indeed , professionals.

        You are being led by the nose by an autocracy that has no public face.

        Yet you do not / refuse to recognize it. Which is exactly what is required / demanded by those who pull your strings. You are blind sided and sucker punched. You are set one group against another. You have no notion of tribal or the national unity, nor of the common purpose. You have been dumbfounded by modern technology and mass communication only going one way. You have been easily corralled and divided.

        And for every yes man and woman who serves that purpose, they are in the thousands compared to the ones they serve.

        Rome did the same to the indigenous populations of many nations with but a handful of troops.

        You have never learnt a thing .

        Not one thing.

  5. Labour, definitely over promised when in opposition. If we were going to be totally honest, we’d acknowledge two big facts.

    1) In August 2017, Labour under Andrew Little had no hope of winning the election in any way shape or form. Little was never PM material for the entire almost 3 years he led Labour. Should have stood down 18 months before he finally did.

    2) Despite Ardern being a once in a life time type politician, she is unfortunately surrounded by at least some players that don’t belong in the “A Team”, in fact a couple of them would struggle to get on the subs bench for the “B Team”.

    The above explains the perceived failings of the Ardern Government who were just flat out not ready to be Government in 2017.

    The paradox of Ardern is that one of her biggest strengths just happens also to be her biggest weakness. “Kindness”

    National are extremely arrogant. This was on show in lights during the 2017 election campaign and that same mindset is as strong today as ever. They despise anyone or anything that prevented the entitled party getting back into Government.

    National Party Hate list in order.

    1) Ardern.
    2) Peters.
    3) Labour.
    4) MMP.

    National’s goal for 2017-2020 is score hits incessantly against the Government. It matters not one jot if the “hit” is based on fact. All that matters is throwing enough shit onto a wall and hoping that at least some of it sticks. That’s their definition of a “hit” and it’s being led by vile latrine rodents, Bridges and Bennett. If they’d had their way Ardern would have been executed at dawn for her alleged cover up of farcical alleged sexual abuse. Their conduct was reprehensible and the polar opposite to how Ardern etc handled the J.L.R situation. An opportunity to highlight the diabolical inner workings of the National Party was gifted away. How was that repaid?

    Where is that donation? Are Chinese really worth more than Indians? Can you buy a seat in the National Party? Are your married colleagues really fucking other married colleagues within Parliament? Do you really have colleagues that you wished would just retire? Do you really have female colleagues that are fucking useless? etc… Did you really have ongoing inquiry about the treatment of females within the party yet not interview one single female? etc etc etc etc etc.

    National MP’s feed their online trolls day and night anything they can dream up that can be used to ridicule and undermine in that extremely busy 24/7 online campaign. Water on a stone has been replaced with a fire hose on a stone by the desperate Nats. Look for more of the same, only worse.

    NZ were subjected to a farcical “rock star economy” by the Me Me Me Party. Just what exactly is that a euphemism for? When the value of assets and investment portfolios of National Party members and their supporters go through the roof? When the gap between rich and poor reaches appalling record levels? When there is money on the books creating a false economy by woefully neglecting infrastructure? When you force a low wage wage economy so you have people to stay on struggle street while “others” reap the rewards? When young NZ families feel that moving to Australia is their only realistic hope of home ownership? When you have nurses knowing it’s 100% pointless protesting wages and conditions again to Jonathan Coleman because they all knew that would be a complete fail. Exact same scenario in education etc etc etc.

    The Government had an enormous “to do” list. Huge. This was due to the carnage created by the Me Me Me Party. How ironic that they are the ones bleating loudest now. Their faux concern for “hard working New Zilanders” is nauseating. They couldn’t possibly care less.

    The Government has made sound progress in many areas despite cries of the sky falling in every step of the way by the usual suspects. Every Government makes errors along the way but National is all about exaggerating and even totally misrepresenting the errors made by the Government. This is full time divisively undermining a Government so punters would consider voting back in the selfish, arrogant untrustworthy bastards…aka The National Party.

    My three tips for the Government in 2020.

    1) Don’t let dirty politics get any traction. Highlight that for what it is immediately it’s ugly head reappears.

    2) Don’t encourage any further loyal party people to fall on their sword hoping that will take the heat out of a latrine rodent campaign. It won’t.

    3) Gloves off.

    • “surrounded by at least some players that don’t belong in the “A Team” ”

      Yes. That bit.

      The attacks are being made as if this were a one party govt, for one thing, when it was cobbled together, with three parties working together. It’s called democracy, I think. It involves compromise, on the part of each.

      Remember that lead-up to when Winston was supposed to be deciding where he would give his party’s support? He waited three weeks, and had little talks with both Bling an Jac. (And seemed to enjoy keeping us all waiting to see how it would roll.) Agreements were made, with both NZ First and with the Greens. Yet somehow now, a bit down the track, it is only Jacinda who is being pummelled and stoned for all that people feel is as yet unfinished.

      Not only but also, she inherited a party that was beset with infighting – four different leaders preceded her in fairly rapid succession (Gough, Shearer, Cunliffe and then Andrew Little). And, they were all old school.

      As well, the people that would be her team were all her seniors, with more history and greater weight within the party. If you compare that situation with either of the other leaders in the coalition, or with Bridges, …All those other pollies had had far more time to scan their respective teams for potential ministers etc. Jacinda had – what – some six weeks I think it was? From when she was asked to take on the unpopular role of Labour leadership at that time, and accepted it. Six weeks to sort out possible placements etc, as well as for campaigning.

      And then, once instated as PM, there was the long, long, hard slog of winding back the mess that was left behind from nine long years of ‘governance’ by the monied party. The greed-is-good, sell-our-natural treasures party. The nab-all-the-houses party, and the flog-homes-off to foreign owners/ foreign landlords party. And call that “investment”. … The bring-on-big-oil party, the “Drill, drill, drill” party. The spy-on-everyone party, the call-it-for-your safety and protection party (when we do spy on-ya). The grab-the-babies party (just the brown ones). The privatise prisons party. etc etc

    • Sorry dude, over promised doesn’t even come close to what they did.
      They flat out lied their arses off which should come as no surprise- they are politicians after all.
      They have not delivered on any of their significant promises.
      More tertiary students? No.
      Billion trees? No.
      Cheap and plentiful housing? No.
      Significant tax reform? No.
      Green Government fleet? No.
      Reduction in child poverty? It has actually gotten worse!

      Either these clowns grossly over promised without a clue that they couldn’t deliver or over promised knowing they couldn’t. Neither is a good sign.

      I miss Clark. Fuck even Key didn’t fuck shit up this badly despite being a hair pulling perv.

        • As is Adern. Under this Labour government, child poverty has increased significantly.
          I don’t give a fuck whether Adern hugs kittens or not. I care about results and this Government has achieved fuck all.

          • And no Houses built, but will spend billions of dollars on ‘Infrastructure’ to sustain the already housed wealthy who’ll capitalise on this building of infrastructure when they buy their next rental property!

        • Many of these children are born into poverty to parents already on the benefit.. When is either party going to encourage that couples do not have children they cannot afford . It is a privalige not a right . Why do people have children then hold out their hand for others to pay for their upkeep .

        • Its simple Jays
          Labour makes an electioneering statements.
          Labour doesn’t get a majority
          Labour negotiates a coalition
          The coalition doesn’t allow Labour to meet some electioneering statements.
          Jacinda gets rubbished by people who appear not to understand coalitions.

          Now where is the weasel.

    • Too much Jacindafan once again you have summed it up only I would put Winston in nationals number 1 hate list spot and Jacinda in the number 2 and I would add the poor as number 5

  6. I think much of the disappointment in the lack of profound change should lie with the fact that Labour did not win enough seats to push through their entire agenda.

    People misunderstand MMP. Having this coalition is a million times better than anything national and crooked Co could have provided, but they had to dial back the urgently needed social repairs promoted during the election to appease Peters, and possibly the Greens, though I don’t think so.

    • You ‘dont think so?’

      Then why say it ?

      The truth is they promoted much in populist imaginations, then reneged.

      Chief among them was the TTPA deal. They sold us out. And there were other issues they backed down on. The housing deal being one of them. Labour, in particular,.. are still too much wedded to the neo liberal ideal.

      We wait patiently for their apologies for 35 years of neo liberal putrefaction.

      It has yet to come.

      We are a patient people, we New Zealanders,… slow to anger, forgiving and prone to unnecessary self rapprochement. Unfortunately in the minds eye of these rapacious predators ,… that gets misinterpreted as being ‘weak’.

      Yet I assure you ,… we are not ‘weak’.

      And when their time comes for judgement , their cast on society , and the deaths they have indirectly and surreptitiously caused,… they will be judged, by this generation and future ones , as the murderous, avarice filled , political opportunists that they are.

      History will not be looking kindly at all on such as these.

    • Bullshit!
      If that were the case Adern would have sought a mandate for CGT in 2020 instead of what she did.
      That said i think what she did was necessary to cauterize the wound creates by how badly she handled the whole tax working group.

      • Jays
        “If that were the case Adern would have sought a mandate for CGT in 2020 instead of what she did”.
        Could you explain your reasoning as it is not self evident.
        Coalition building can take place long before electioneering

  7. ‘Some of us feel slightly betrayed.’ And I’m sure that that is true.

    I feel immensely betrayed by Neo-Labour, and I know that I am not alone in this. I am tired of people saying that our Prime Minister behaves nobly in times of crisis. That is only needed if you use George W. Bush and Donald Trump as your yardstick. Doing noble and humane things after a crisis is not that difficult for well balanced humans. Doing good in the daily grind is something more difficult. Being transformative takes a lot more effort and commitment.
    If I critise Neo-Labour I also am not giving my support to The National Party.
    We seem to have the politics of FPTP under the name of MMPR. I no longer see any meaningful difference between Neo-Labour using the neo-liberal operating system and The National Party using the neo-liberal operating system.

    • Neo-Labour .

      I do believe you have coined a new reference point for the ‘Labour’ party.

      Thank you for that.

      The ChiNational party and the Neo – Labour party.

      Sheer brilliance.

      It is good to have descriptors for these odious and pretentious political machines that rape and abuse the people of NZ. The sell outs, the grifters, those who lie bald face to us every night of the week , the authors of lies and newsreels of murderous industrial events that claim the lives of ordinary New Zealanders and who weep crocodile tears before the cameras then go home to their chardonnays and comfortable surrounds…

      The French had a way of dealing with them,… though that is perhaps a bit extreme regarding the degeneration that followed,… perhaps a simple 20 year prison sentence for treason would suffice. I dont know. But 20 years would ensure they certainly never enjoyed the fruits of their thefts….especially if their family’s never had time to convert their ill gotten gains via the public purse into shares and asset holdings….

      Food for thought, though perhaps 35 years too late.

      Are we THAT much of a slow learning bunch ?

      Or just too kind hearted and always giving the benefit of the doubt?

      I think the latter.

      We are just too soft hearted.

      I can tell you, I’m not.

  8. Martyn will never be happy until John Minto, Hone or Willie Jackson is the PM!
    Martyns biggest regret is not being born Maori or a minority of some sort, still full of guilt for being a white male and trying very hard to make up for his white privilege by being what most white far left leftists do….try and be more of a minority activist than the actual minorities!

    • You are quite stupid, aren’t you.

      Very emotive cry from one so frustrated and lost in a cathedral of thought such as you are. Your quite confused, dear man.

      Still, in the interests of All Americana as they adopted it ,…such as you are,…

      …’ I Disapprove of What You Say, But I Will Defend to the Death Your Right to Say It ‘…

      Even though it means you hold yourself up to public ridicule for the sheer stupidity that you feel is your right to display publicly…

      Indeed,… Be my guest.

    • Think you should change your pseudonym “Im right (winger)”
      Cause this evidence says you’re all wrong – Your own post here on TDB, July 2017:
      Im right July 27, 2017 at 12:44 pm
      “Hahaha, delicious! Labour not openly condoning MT will see their support drop to 25%..again, the Greens will bottom out at 8-10%, ohhh how the last 9 years have been so much fun, looks like another 3yrs of National in Govt and a good thing too!”
      Here’s the link – hope it works: https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2017/07/27/dear-beneficiaries-of-nz-im-beyond-being-polite-please-read-this-share/

      Martyn and the TDB must be having an effect out there when the right whingers start yowling around and tossing out crap from their buckets of porcine manure.

    • Martyn will never be happy until John Minto, Hone or Willie Jackson is the PM!

      Oh don’t be ridiculous, that is never ever going to happen.

      Good on you Martyn saying it like it is!

  9. Just be aware that every criticism of labour and the greens plays nicely into one of National and the msm meme eg “labour not delivering “.

    Of course they are not delivering as much as I/we would want. They have to balance a whole lot of factors. We likely have the best govt in the world. Get in behind to get them re-elected or see National (thinkScomo (smoko), Trump, Johnson elected). Remind yourself what arseholes key and National were, remember state house sell off, bogus meth testing, dirty politics and waitresses having their hair pulled. Be pragmatic and realistic. Labour and greens is our very best choice. Now talk up what they have done as they have done some, gun laws, pike river, building state houses, minimum wages up, plastic bags or risk National. If you don’t and we get National, don’t complain

    • Please don’t threaten with the big ‘don’t complain’ threat.

      Apart from that ,? – a very very good post and one which we should always keep in mind.

      HOWEVER ! , – we as New Zealanders should NEVER settle for second best or any mealy mouthed compromise. We pay these elected politicians handsomely.

      We do so out of our taxes and with the expectation they will execute OUR WILL. NOT THEIRS. And not according to some post grad brainwashing they received from some political/ economics Professor who endorsed the neo liberal agenda because he / she gained good funding’s and thus a secure and cushy lifestyle from it.

      Oh no , no no ,… that’s not how it all works, my friend.

      When we look back at the early origins of the Labour party we see people who came from the school of hard knocks. Not the school of the well to do. We see the likes of Michael Joseph Savage who was a leader of the ‘Red Feds’,… and was arrested for his beliefs.

      Working men and women who really knew what it was to live in struggle street.

      Not some bloated poncy career politician who shifts his / her direction every which way the political winds may blow to keep them in a well paying job.

      Most of them didn’t even hold a diploma, let alone a degree in political science.

      Oh no no no,… that wasn’t how it was done.

      It was done by men and women who actually STOOD for something, – such as social justice, fairness and equity.

      Unlike the current crop of lying neo liberal wankers we have today.

    • I was in Australia for their election and in England for theirs and in both countries Labour lost when they should have won.
      Boris and Scomo are both light on the truth but Labour had leaders that were out of touch and a message that their supporters could not accept. Labour here has a good leader but she is pulled two ways by vastly different partners and a support team that you not wish on your worst enemy. Think Twyford Nash Clarke.
      Your list of credits leave me non plus. Gun law a disaster / Pike River 36m and rising / state houses not bad but what about Kiwibuild /wages up good but where is the policies to increase productivity to pay them /plastic bags were going anyway but really is that any more than virtue signaling.
      The question is it enough to get more votes than last time . Personally I do not think so but that is just my opinion

      • … ‘ Boris and Scomo are both light on the truth but Labour had leaders that were out of touch and a message that their supporters could not accept ‘ …

        ———————————-

        … ‘ Labour here has a good leader but she is pulled two ways by vastly different partners and a support team that you not wish on your worst enemy ‘….

        ———————————-

        Simple and straight to the point.

        Excellence.

        I cant imagine Adern , empathetic as she is,… truly wanting to see NZ going the way it it. She loves people. Shes family orientated. Its as simple as that. I cannot for a moment see her as a ruthless capitalist wanting to screw people down for their last dollar and see them turfed out onto the street. Such as we had with the ChiNational party under tax haven John Key and the Double Dipper, Bill English.

        I don’t believe the shit emanates from her at all.

        I believe it emanates from those career politicians already in the Neo Labour party. And you know who I mean. And they are cancer. To you , and to me. I believe if Adern could extricate herself from these cancers she would. But the problem is as it always has been : working for change within a toxic environment.

        Julius Caesar experienced the same thing.

        And essentially therein lies the problem.

        Neo liberal MOLES.

    • Oh it does not play into their hands. It is being said like it actually is. Are we meant to button our lips and not make any criticisms.

  10. So Labour have flushed billions down the tubes whilst most measures of progress have gone backwards compared to National.
    So which is better? Probably National, not that I’d vote for them.
    I think Clark was a reasonable balance between fiscal responsibility and social outcomes. Certainly she did better than Adern.

    • Clark had a majority.
      Adern has a coalition.

      There is a very big difference.
      Flushing billions down which tubes.
      What measures of progress are you referring to

  11. Very good post, Martyn, and also excellent comments to (most) who replied. We CAN criticise Labour and the coalition, and sometimes quite sharply. And I am really very angry at them for lack of action on housing. But it certainly does NOT mean National would do better. They would do much worse; they would do nothing and they would blame those who suffer for their suffering. At least we don’t have that now.
    But what those of us who support change need to do is to figure out how best to push the government to actually do more, to set aside neoliberal policy which has, for well over 30 years, done nothing but hurt the poor, the workers and most of the middle class. What do you all suggest??

    • That’s it.
      The hidden power of big money controls NZ govts.
      Money does change hands but not in the open.

  13. Question will become Trevor who do you vote for (no need to answer me) because come Election Day, that will be what matters. But if people keep talking labour down, the general population who don’t pay to much attention to politics will go oh yeah, oh, kiwi build yah na….and vote National.

    Btw I think kiwi build a good policy. Houses snapped up in Wellington. It’s flying below the radar, but I hope it keeps going. Just not enough of them

  15. The better of the two bads. A little less than America.
    Reading Sue Bradbury’s bio I’ve lost my enthusiasm for the Greens as a default for the people.
    That solid 45% for power. Someone to talk for demo cracy from a high pulpit.
    I think it’s vital, 2 things, a high pulpit and a magnificent talker. If the media worms could do it for the Johnsonville no-account.
    We don’t produce talkers anymore. But do-ers , no one was more surprised than Bruce Jesson by his effectiveness. There must be someone intelligent and full of our rightful ideal who will be surprised by their voice. Chris Trotter, like me, isn’t that person. Step up, the only grandees I recognise, those for the people. Even the Campbell bought off at the start who tries to keep his integrity.

  17. The private companies and the Natz benefit from our current global neoliberal agenda, because the NZ government has been allowing the deliberate overloading our social services with new residents who can assess many benefits including voting and free health care, straight away or within a few years!

    Follow the money – it is is private big business interests to make all Kiwi’s pay for private health care and private education and super, and they are doing that by overloading the ‘finite’ public health system and social welfare.

    Jobseeker up 11%.
    The number of Māori aged 65+ will more than double (from 48,500 to 109,400) between 2018 and 2034, as will the senior Pacific population (from 21,300 to 46,700), while the number of senior Asian New Zealanders will almost triple (from 59,500 to 171,900 (Hang on, NZ was told that migration was to help fund the NZ ageing population, but somehow we seem to have more aged Asian migrants than Maori or Pacific Islanders to support, what went wrong with that picture?)

    Meanwhile the health providers are now putting out articles telling the Kiwis who were born here to start paying for private health insurance instead of those who just came or holidaying here, who apparently get to piggy back of the NZ finite system indefinitely!

    Waiting in Pain: People without money and insurance the ones who suffer
    “Access to public treatment is rationed for a reason: resources are finite.”
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/health/118317646/waiting-in-pain-people-without-money-and-insurance-the-ones-who-suffer

    No wonder NZ visas are overflowing with massive back log of applications we practically give our social welfare system away to anyone coming here and it is so easy to get residency!!

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_permanent_residency

    “Similarities between a resident and a permanent resident visa[edit]
    The holder of any resident class visa is entitled:[1]

    to stay in New Zealand indefinitely
    to work in New Zealand or in the exclusive economic zone of New Zealand
    to study in New Zealand
    to receive free or subsidised health care at publicly funded health services.[2]
    to free education at state-run primary and secondary schools, and subsidised fees for domestic students at private schools and tertiary institutions.[3]
    to enrol and vote in elections (after one year of residence).[4][5]
    to receive a social security benefit (after two years’ residence for Jobseeker Support, Sole Parent Support and Supported Living Payment; after ten years’ residence for New Zealand Superannuation; varies for other benefits).
    to sponsor a partner, parents or dependent children during their visa application[6]
    Differences between a resident and a permanent resident visa[edit]”

    Labour and Greens and NZ First came with an agenda to tighten up immigration, instead temp visas running at 150,000+ per year for fake and questionable jobs, study and through relative entry.

    Once here we can’t get rid of anybody, either as they appeal their deportations and our laws are so pathetic to encourage crims and lawyers profits that the crims get to stay or take up years of legal action and housing and resources, to get rid of them!

    • Thanks, saveNZ. “…it is is private big business interests to make all Kiwi’s pay for private health care and private education.”

      I think this was why English and the Nats were running down the public health system in New Zealand, with a view to privatising it. I had health insurance, don’t now, and am the only person in my whanau without it. My medico relatives say that we need it, and one said it’s essential for everyone over 40. Perhaps more unfortunately, it now looks as if it could be crucial for babies and children too – that’s assuming that we want children to grow up healthy – the system’s too patchy. The UK is currently facing the threat of the NHS being privatised – maybe sold to American interests.

      People now taking out second mortgages to enable their kids attend the private schools which Bill English’s kids did, often have good reason for doing so. Schools can be patchy too. My children attended a mix of private and state schools – we moved a lot, and a couple of times struck dodgy, paid what we couldn’t afford.

      “Once here we can’t get rid of anybody, either as they appeal their deportations and our laws are so pathetic to encourage crims and lawyers profits that the crims get to stay or take up years of legal action.”
      Sometimes lawyers spin things out because they can make more money that way. Sometimes they’re inept too.

  18. Good news for the homeless, working poor, and middle class NZ citizens then… sarcasm… they may not get a house in NZ and get to be poorer within their own country, but they do get 2 months of extra visa to work in Singapore courtesy of our amazing NZ negotiators and government !! Yipee

    Singapore gets to buy up NZ to the tune of $5.1 billion of two-way direct investment in 2018 and lets face it, most of that is probably NZ land sales to Singapore nationals!

    Holidaying in Singapore to get easier under improved Free Trade Agreement
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/118522955/holidaying-in-singapore-to-get-easier-under-improved-free-trade-agreement

    Those who can still buy land in NZ from overseas (Singaporeans and Australians can as of right buy NZ land as well as everyone else it seems… )

    So, who can buy residential land as of right in NZ?
    These people are some of the people who can:

    https://www.alexanderdorrington.co.nz/buying-residential-nz-land-without-the-need-for-consent/

    “1. New Zealand citizens

    2. Persons who are ordinarily resident in New Zealand (for the purposes of residential land), i.e. persons who:

    • have a residents class visa; and

    • have been living in New Zealand the last 12 months; and

    • are tax resident in New Zealand (e.g. have been in New Zealand for 184 days and tax residency has not “stopped”); and

    • have been in New Zealand for 183 days or more in the past 12 months.

    3. A company where no “overseas person” has:

    a. ownership of 25% or more of the shares; or

    b. the power to control 25% or more of the board; or

    c. the right to control 25% or more of the votes.

    To determine this we will need to consider who are the directors, who are the shareholders, what does the Constitution say and what do the shareholder agreements say, if applicable.

    4. A trust where no overseas person (or persons):

    a. comprise 25% or more of the trustees, or

    b. are entitled to or have beneficial ownership of 25% or more of the trust property; or

    Where a discretionary trust is concerned then provided one of the discretionary beneficiaries is a New Zealand citizen then this test should not be triggered because an entitlement to “be considered” as a discretionary beneficiary is not the same as having an entitlement to the assets or ownership. If however, all discretionary beneficiaries became overseas person then the trust would become an overseas person too.

    c. hold 25% or more of the power to amend or control amendment of the trust deed; or

    Typically this is about checking who the settlor is or who holds the specific power of appointment to change beneficiaries.

    d. hold 25% or more of the power to control the trustees (e.g. the appointor).

    Exemptions
    You are also excused the need for consent or have different rules that apply to you if an exemption applies. There is a long list of exemptions in the Overseas Investment Regulations 2005. For example, exemptions are potentially available to:

    certain company restructures
    a change of trustee
    beneficiaries inheriting property under wills
    permitted security arrangements
    relationship property where one spouse is an overseas person
    the owner of the freeholder who acquires another interest e.g. the leasehold
    charitable entities
    Australian citizens
    Australian permanent residents who are ordinarily resident in New Zealand
    Singaporean nationals
    Singaporean permanent residents who are ordinarily resident in New Zealand”

  19. Health care in other countries is patchy and not free in most case.

    Our government is so generous to help billions of middle class people in economies far stronger than NZ, with free access to the NZ health system for hundreds of thousands of new people with allowance for ongoing satellite family growth operating here…

    Public Health care in India is poor quality and most people don’t use it…

    “The Indian public health sector encompasses 18% of total outpatient care and 44% of total inpatient care.[10] Middle and upper class individuals living in India tend to use public healthcare less than those with a lower standard of living.[11] Additionally, women and the elderly are more likely to use public services.[11] The public health care system was originally developed in order to provide a means to healthcare access regardless of socioeconomic status or caste.[12] However, reliance on public and private healthcare sectors varies significantly between states. Several reasons are cited for relying on the private rather than public sector; the main reason at the national level is poor quality of care in the public sector, with more than 57% of households pointing to this as the reason for a preference for private health care.”

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_India

    Public Health care in China is not free for urban nationals…

    “Residents of urban areas are not provided with free healthcare, and must either pay for treatment or purchase health insurance. The quality of hospitals varies. ”

    “Despite this, public health insurance generally only covers about half of medical costs, with the proportion lower for serious or chronic illnesses. Under the “Healthy China 2020″ initiative, China is currently undertaking an effort to cut healthcare costs, and the government requires that insurance will cover 70% of costs by the end of 2018”.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Healthcare_in_China

  20. Maybe its time we look at Politics for what it really has become. Politic’s is an Industry that fills a niche position in the TTPA Corporatist chain. Politic’s is a hybrid HR Department. A department that sells Company policy to the worker Bee’s like a smorgasboard, a buffet, a fast food franchise. A Private Enabler and a Public Disabler that base Social Policy on costs not needs.
    Politics has become a clearing house for Consultants that would otherwise be unemployable in a fairly and democratically based society where the majority make the list of “Things to do and prioritise by social need”. Politico’s delegate their jobs as Ministers to the Accounting Department for spending approval, then relegate to the Mezzanine Floor where the Senior Bureaucrats decide pay scales for each Public Sector, subtract their chunks of paper-flesh and then pass down the balance of whats left over after the Jacklas buy lunch and Latté’s for their Banker Buddy’s. Not once is the bag o cash called “funding” as that word is Tapu in the Neo-Public Service Sector circles. Allocations is a much softer word off the pallet.
    Billions of Tax, GST, Levy’s, Fee’s, and Beneficiary-$$$ get put in the Hopper and what dribbles out the bottom is the Trickle we were promised from our Meritocratic contribution before they went to lunch. By the time the Jackals get back from lunch the Public Sector spending tap has been tightened a bit more, just in case it rains, or the horizon gets a bit cloudy.
    After all, there isn’t any return of cold hard cash (debt) sending anything to the public sector, where those worthless eaters will just spend it on pain relief.
    Healthcare – Nah, better to starve it to death until it can learn to turn a profit.
    Education – Nah, Teaching kids to be cogs in an already failed system is just throwing money at a bunch of starry eyed losers that want to cost us more to fix the environment, or change our neo-rule book so they can buy into our Property Portfolio’s and own our entitled piece of these rocks
    Social Welfare – Well we sure as hell aren’t going to take our foot of those throats and give them anything other than more debt to have to repay to “We’re here to Help”. Let them eat themselves! Besides, we have all those handy Migrants that can’t vote or bitch about being fleeced on their pay packets, we can just send em all back, no worry’s! Why would we want to rock that boat? Besides, there might be entrepreneurs hiding out there that could change the flow of OUR Capital, so just in case send a meme to the Accounting Department in Westpac to make sure nobody without a House or a big Mortgage gets any free lunch – ever… No pay? No Play… Let them keep Hope alive, thats good ñ uff.. Now that we’ve got the power of the Algorithm we can twist their little heads off from Cyber Space if they get uppidy about it… Happy Neo Year! Here’s to another profitable decade! Confiscate their Pitchforks & pass out the cake…

  21. Spot the stupid country destroying the welfare state!

    Info for economists, Natz and Natz lite followers,

    Chinese pensions…

    Guess what, in China you have to CONTRIBUTE minimum 15 years to get a pension and only get 1% of the indexed wage in China for your public pension.

    http://www.oecd.org/els/public-pensions/PAG2017-country-profile-China.pdf

    In India it sounds like no free public pension and minimum 10 Years of CONTRIBUTIONS of 12% and only 12% of the work force seemed covered for pensions anyway.
    http://www.oecd.org/els/public-pensions/PAG2017-country-profile-India.pdf

    In NZ you don’t have to contribute at all to a pension as an overseas person or be working, just be resident here for 10 years (used to be 5 years) to get 43 per cent of the NZ average wage and it is not means tested for overseas pensioners either.

    “To meet the residency requirements for New Zealand Superannuation, Veteran’s Pension (New Zealand pensions) and most New Zealand benefits, generally, you must:
    be lawfully resident, and
    be present, and
    be ordinarily resident in New Zealand, and
    have spent some time living in New Zealand (a period of residence).”

    https://www.workandincome.govt.nz/pensions/travelling-or-moving/moving-to-nz/residency-requirements-for-new-zealand-benefits-and-pensions.html

    Not surprising that NZ is now the place to retire to and be supported as an overseas resident as well as the free quality health care that many have to pay for in their own countries!

    Superannuation and health care was known about as a major issue a decade ago for our lazy immigration policy. Natz encouraged it, and Labour have just bought back migrant parent entry based on woke stupidity.

    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1110/S00572/grey-power-warns-of-impact-of-high-immigration-rates.htm

    https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/315435/migrants'-parents-cost-nz-'tens-of-millions‘

    This now means that in NZ aged asian pensioners have sky rocketed and now is expected to be more than the number of aged Maori and Pacific Islander’s combined within a decade.

    You can also now sponsor in other aged people you marry at 79 under our ‘relaxed’ marriage laws for residency and the government seems hopeless to do anything about it.

    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/376220/10k-11-days-and-one-failed-deportation

      • Hang in there Bert 🙂
        You’re not alone in what you’ve been thinking. As Louis is want to say, “How quickly we all forget!”
        Too many people have bought into the corporate, foreign-owned, money-grubbing media lines. The big-money media want the Nats back, they’re determined to achieve that, and they are powerful manipulators. They’re backed by big oil, big rotten banks, big multi-billion dollar corporates. Combine that with the local dirty tricks lot and it is difficult to counter it all.
        There is so much more to what is going on. Good on you for not buying into all the crap.

  23. Why are we still lumbered with 15% GST?
    Australia’s is 10% – as ours used to be. 5.5% for some accommodation.
    The Coalition could have reversed National’s tax increase.
    It hasn’t.
    Because?
    The Coalition members are as grabby as National? They also tell outright lies about reducing poverty?
    Surely not!
    “So are they all, all honourable me(mbers)” – and that’s about all.

    • “Why are we still lumbered with 15% GST?”
      It is a very cruel tax, and needs to be wound back ASAP!

      “Australia’s is 10% – as ours used to be.”
      Australia also has exemptions including most basic foods! and some medical and health services and products, and some other basics.

      Lange raised it to 12.5% back in ’89. Mr Key raised it to 15% in 2010. When that raise was being discussed Hone had this to say
      “GST hits poor people the hardest because nearly all of their money is spent on things that you pay GST on – food, petrol, electricity – so any increase is going to really hurt them.”
      … and it does!

      • Tax the little people who have to spend all their income to try and meet their costs of living. They may be sleeping in cars with their children.
        Meanwhile lower corporate tax on dividends for rich investors usually living offshore.

        Its called GST

  24. When you try to divide people into ‘generations’ and thus create an age based artificial ‘class war’, you are bound to fail badly, as this is simply not how the real world functions.

    Nobody wants Nats back in control, but the stupidity, incompetence and over caution of the present government, that has failed on many policy fronts, that will make it more likely the enemy gets back into power.

    I warned of this before the government was formed, my worst fears are becoming reality, I dread Election 2020.

  25. The concept of critical support is problematic. Criticism undermines the support offered, and support nullifies the criticism. So why take that stance?
    Presumably because you subscribe to the belief that those who do not support Labour are effectively assisting the National Party, and also because you believe that although Labour has not brought the transformative change which it promised, it is led by the sort of people with whom you can and do have close personal friendships, and people who may ultimately be susceptible to your influence.
    So you both support Labour to “keep National out” and you criticize Labour because you recognise that on its present course it is doing nothing to bring about the “transformative change” which would truly set it apart from National.
    Socialists have a long-standing irrational belief that they can influence social democratic parties and politicians to adopt socialist policies. Yet historical experience shows that social democratic parties are susceptible only to the ideological influence of capital, and are impervious to socialist ideologies. This has been the case with the New Zealand Labour Party, the British Labour Party and every other social democratic party in the world. Your support for Labour will be welcomed and your criticisms will be ignored. In other words, if you are really seeking transformative change you are wasting your time, your talents and your life in giving critical support to the Labour Party.
    If you did believe in the possibility of change you would look for some more promising vehicle than the Labour Party. Perhaps a new parliamentary political party, but you understand as well as I do that new leftwing political parties have come and gone always leaving frustration and disappointment in their wake.
    Therefore in your heart you must realize that there is no hope for transformative change through the Labour Party, the Green Party or some other yet-to-emerge leftwing party.
    You could ask yourself the next logical question of whether change could come through extra-parliamentary means, but that would require you to change your own thinking in a revolutionary or transformative way. You assume that you can only be politically effective when working in and through the colonial parliamentary system. That is why you stay committed to the fortunes of the Labour Party, and you yourself can never be an effective agent for “transformative change” while you hold to that reactionary assumption.
    You suggest that National is the only alternative to Labour, and that National would be worse than Labour. Even if we accept your premises (that Labour is better than National and that within the colonial regime there can be no other viable alternatives) it does not follow that we have no options outside of the colonial system. We didn’t have to support either George Bush or Saddam Hussein and we don’t have to support either Jacinda Ardern or Simon Bridges. We can simply leave them to it, and remain utterly fearless of both and whatever harm they might be able to inflict on us.
    You suggest that Jacinda Ardern is basically a nice person, the kind you can and do have as a personal friend. I would not dispute that. But at the same time she is a neo-liberal, monarchist Blairite who gives comfort to the ethnonationalist cause by declaring that “80% of New Zealanders claim British heritage”. Even in her own caucus she would be hard put to find 80% who genuinely feel themselves to be British. They pledge allegiance to a British monarch out of fear of the consequences of refusal. That is all, and that is why the colonial regime is like a hollowed out tree, rotten to the core and in danger of being toppled to the ground in the first winter gale.
    Jacinda may be a good friend, but that is immaterial to the political argument. “Whakaaro pai ki nga tangata katoa” is a sound maxim in politics as in the rest of life. Show the same degree of respect to all. Do not choose to put one above the other unless you can do so unequivocally and are willing and able to take responsibility for what they might do with the power you bestow upon them.

    • My thinking is that Labour + Greens get one more term to actually be transformative, that we ensure they win 2020, but on the very next day after the 2020 election begin seriously looking at a new political party.

      In 2023, for the first time in NZ Political history, Gen X + Gen Y + Millennials will be a bigger voting block than Boomers.

      2023 is the opportunity for a new political movement.

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