Labour do righteous thing on arranged marriages, NZ as a multicultural society & real tragedy of Shane Jones Bollywood Drama

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I’m glad Labour have done the right thing and told Immigration to ease up definitions of marriage to take Indian arranged marriages into consideration when granting partnership visas.

It’s the right thing to do because NZ may have been bicultural in design, and because of the Treaty will always be bicultural in its power structure by recognising Māori as the first nation in all things, it has become multicultural by philosophical values and less nobly, by exploitative economics.

New Zealand is a liberal progressive democracy, and part of that philosophical core is tolerance of one another. That core is built upon the principles of the Treaty which eloquently state clearly the power relationship between the State and the individual.

The Treaty says that it is the State’s responsibility and obligation to uphold the civil rights and independent agency of the individual as defined by Tino rangatiratanga. This merging of Māori and Pakeha under a State whose obligations were to protect and actively enhance the rights and agency of the individual created our egalitarian hope.

Women winning the right to vote, the 40 hour week, Nuclear Free, Gay Marriage, no physical harm towards children, – all examples of us at our best when championing the agency and self-sovereignty of the individual.

Our tolerance of the other and their individual promotion to full agency must also extend to migrants and people with other cultures. This isn’t to water down the bicultural genesis of our birth as a nation, but the logic of us as a cultural destiny means our tolerance is extended to all.

Certainly there are aspects of other cultures which we are not culturally relative with, child brides and female mutilation being obvious examples, but where consent is given and mutually acknowledged, cultural differences like arranged marriages, wearing a full burqa,  Glorivale living arrangements or Exclusive Brethren isolation are tolerated.

NZs power relationship of the State aiding the individual to be the best you must acknowledge that your version of the best you might radically differ from mine.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

That’s tolerance.

The problem with the multicultural aspect of NZ is that it is ultimately based on exploitative economics. As Bernard Hickey devastatingly points out in this must read analysis, NZs multiculturalism is currently based on exploitative capitalism that imports huge cheap labour pools which put pressure on NZs own working poor which creates fierce competition for cheap housing and puts enormous stress on public services while Governments don’t bother investing in the infrastructure to cope with this enormous economic and ultimately cultural stress.

A properly funded infrastructure that had well regulated housing with public transport systems that worked and fully funded public services to shoulder the increased demand wouldn’t create these stresses by migrants coming to NZ.

Shane Jones played to an electorate of working poor who face competition for houses, jobs and services from migrants and who feel culturally intimidated by the changing face of NZ. This anxiety combined with legitimate resource concerns is a potent cocktail of nativism and explosive anger.

Sadly for that electorate, it is the neoliberal system and the politicians that empower that neoliberal system who are to blame, not the migrants themselves.

We need to have an adult conversation about immigration, one that respects all and acknowledges that our exploitation of migrants and lack of investment in the infrastructure so working poor and migrants aren’t in competition with each other is the largest parts of this problem.

Add into this debate the looming cascade of issues the climate crisis will bring us and we urgently need that debate now.

 

 

 

32 COMMENTS

  1. /Agreed
    But then what would I know. I’m just a retail citizen interested in tokenising and commoditising his spiritual persona in order for it to reside in the bubble with the highest number of likes.
    And when I did my extensive interweb research omitting the tl;dr, I discovered that “Dalmatians aren’t rare. They’re just less popular than other breeds. Dalmatians are very active and intelligent dogs who need lots of exercise, do poorly when left alone for long periods of time, aren’t well suited to apartment life, shed a lot, and are prone to deafness”
    Something didn’t seem to add up. Could it be that my gigantic ego and superior intellect might be interfering with my desired outcome?
    Maybe I’ll have to be more tolerant of the intolerant but at least when I meet my maker I’ll be able to go see it singing “I did it my way”

  2. I personally can see a lot of issues here but simply saying OK does not sound like a good solution. Lazy Labour strikes again…..

    • Jacinda and Labour were worried about the Indians giving up their Labour Party memberships. Labour has had close ties to the Indian community for years, they fear the loss of votes.

  3. The argument that arranged marriages is not increasing patriarchal interests is about as wokie as Massey university banning political speeches and feminist conferences for health and safety reasons!

    More than 50% of the world use arranged marriages and surprise surprise that is where there is the most inequality to woman and less rights of women and girls, not to mention the honour killings that are often covered up.

    The reason that divorce rate is so low for arranged marriages is that the women are more likely to kill themselves than seek a divorce, the customs of arranged marriages are really about keeping practices like wealth and inheritance within the male line!

    So very sad that someone who appears to be pro womens rights has been sucked into supporting this patriarchal practice coming to NZ!

    • I guess you prefer a system of arranging marriages that results in some of the highest domestic violence in the world. Best make sure your own house is in order before you go pointing your wokie jokie at others.. Patriarchy is equally the driving force of domestic violence with at least the same negative aspects. Perhaps if we let other cultures develop without treating their land as a free for all resource grab open to fomenting war any time they try to use their resources to improve their own lot they would have reached a level of comfort and security that allowed for equality. The Taliban were as unfamiliar to Afghans as Guido to Venezuelans or Comacho to Bolivians before the US stepped in with guns and money. Your comfort has a cost and your blindness does not excuse your venom and arrogance

      • Spickyboy, Don’t let statistics get in the way or your woke reality!

        aka India’s Gender Inequality Index rating of 0.524 in 2017, putting it in the bottom 20% of ranked countries for that year.

        65% of Indian men believe women should tolerate violence in order to keep the family together, and women sometimes deserve to be beaten.[5]

        Examples of reasons for honor killings include the refusal to enter an arranged marriage, committing adultery, choosing a partner that the family disapproves of, and becoming a victim of rape.[12]

        Village caste councils or khap panchayats in certain regions of India regularly pass death sentences for persons who do not follow their diktats on caste or gotra.

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_women_in_India

        Bringing more family violence and patriarchal views into NZ by societies that lead the world in it, is taking resources away from solving NZ’s family violence issues, that are already underfunded and not working!

        Just a couple of headlines – also effects our justice system and jails to have more demand!

        Judge: Extraordinary that killer Rohit Singh maintained fiction during murder trial
        https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12254105

        Indian sentenced to life for murdering wife in NZ
        https://www.hindustantimes.com/world/indian-sentenced-to-life-for-murdering-wife-in-nz/story-MpDOdR9DJXcKI2pkfpBTMK.html

        Like housing, our government just keep adding more and more negative demand into the mix because they are too lazy to filter people out, while the wokies and exploiters bray for less regulation on NZ visas!

        Cultural values just don’t ‘disappear’ when moving to a new country. In the UK there are 12 ‘honour killings’ per year even after generation of living in the UK, the cultural values prevail.

        • … ” 65% of Indian men believe women should tolerate violence in order to keep the family together, and women sometimes deserve to be beaten.[5]

          Examples of reasons for honor killings include the refusal to enter an arranged marriage, committing adultery, choosing a partner that the family disapproves of, and becoming a victim of rape.[12]

          Village caste councils or khap panchayats in certain regions of India regularly pass death sentences for persons who do not follow their diktats on caste or gotra ”…

          https://en.wikipedia.or

          Notice how the Zepplin overshadows the crop circle,… so mankind/ womankind, … confronts the snakes and the grey uglies… and wins.

          What is it about so many people that need to put themselves under dubious corrupt authority? . Hell,… I’d rather die than do that. I will forever be, a free and wild Sasquatch , a free man , a free individual….

          Give me the bush any-day.

          Led Zeppelin – Nobody’s Fault but Mine
          https://youtu.be/hJeGrLJ6dOI?t=128

          Any- day.

          Freedom !

  4. Well my message to Labour is they better do the right thing for us Maori too or many of our whanau who voted for them will vote for an alternative. My patience on Ihumatao being sorted is running thin and I might have to start helping our newly formed Maori party who have no money making it harder for them to be a creditable opposition.

    • Loathsome administration but on this I give the credit , well done overuling the pompous trougher known as Shane Jones and his racism

    • It was a sad day when all Maori parties exited parliament. Not sure if Hone is running again but I sure hope either he or the Maori party or maybe even some joint force get back to give Maori a proper voice.

  5. We might be a multicultural society but his country was founded on a bicultural agreement that hasn’t been upheld

    • plus % 100 Michelle and the first Maori king said don’t sell the land

      I cant speak for him and I cant speak for Maori but some thing inside me says he would be saying the same thing today .

    • “………..but his country was founded on a bicultural agreement that hasn’t been upheld”
      Indeed it hasn’t.
      And it’s not likely to be in future if we continue to denegrate/rip-off/patronise and alienate those who’ve suffered similar, if not exactly the same shit ‘US’ has.
      But go for it if you think that’s the way (in this space going forward) . See you next century sometime

  6. We need to honour the TOW Martyn and stop letting foreigners come here and tramping on our rights and culture we already have Pakeha NZers doing this daily its become so normalised people don’t blink. We don’t need others coming here and jumping on the bandwagon when they have been here 5 minutes. Also ‘Shane Jones played to an electorate of working poor ….’ its not just the working poor that don’t want too many people here and to say it is just this one sector of society is not right there are plenty of others not happy with immigration and its not just jobs and homes at stake its hospital services, roads, schools full and run down to name a few. I look forward to NZ Firsts’ new population policy.

    • Without migrants there will be few homes built no one to look after the elderly horticulture would have to leave a huge portion of crops in the ground and the economy over all would go backwards. The Maori owed fishing companies have to employ from overseas because they cannot rely on their own people . I have worked with many hard work Maori in hospitality so I am not casting them all as lazy but unfortunately many have been ruined by the benefit trap. Migrants cannot get the benefit so need to work to stay here

      • @Trevor We seemed to do just fine 10 years ago and people were wealthier and had less poverty, zero homelessness, houses to live in and jobs to go to including jobs for our school leavers that paid money that reflected the cost of living, not on exploitative volunteer for jobs and visas as we do now and slave trafficking in NZ!

        As for looking after the elderly a huge amount of visas are for elderly migrants to come to NZ and be looked after by NZ taxpayers and workers making the problem worse not better not just for care workers, but for super and health care! https://croakingcassandra.com/2019/10/14/reopening-parent-visas/

        Aged migrants can marry online and bring husbands over too and our lazy laws don’t stop it! https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/376220/10k-11-days-and-one-failed-deportation

        As for solving the housing crisis, immigration caused it, even more crazy because as little as 6 years ago housing was a lot more affordable, the opposite has happened with mass immigration over the last 6 years in particular, @ 300,000 per year and growing, that means that our population could have increased by 1 million people in as little as under 4 years! Construction has become much more expensive with all the cheap labour that doesn’t know what it is doing as it’s a pozni, and fake materials being imported into NZ!

        As for the construction industry, time to actually make sure that those coming actually can do those skills aka like nurses and doctors and teachers have to pass a NZ course before they are let loose on the community!

        The NZ Chinese are aghast because they say the Chinese and NZ recruitment companies are just rounding up people from the countryside and importing them to NZ with a short ‘course’ – they are not qualified at all and can’t speak the language and it’s a scam! Migrants coming here with fake skills and documentation!

        The migrants coming to NZ in the last few years with our deregulated visas, have less skills than ever before!

        And the downstream from that is that legitimate migrants with skills or anybody trying to get a NZ visa now face delays because the process allows so much fraud and encourages it!

        Why would you pay thousands of dollars to make your way into the UK in a refrigerated truck when you can just pay $700 for a NZ plane ticket and pay for a fake job and documentation! It’s easier, safer and cheaper to people trafficking to NZ and that’s down to NZ government stupidity and not being ultra careful – people trafficking using fake documentation is going to overtake the Meth trade in NZ if it already hasn’t.

        This is what happens to a country where our government thinks 1% industry and 2% wokies should have the majority say on how the country is run and what it needs are as well as not being able to gather or track statistics in real time!

      • The regime tells us that there is a shortage of labour across the board in New Zealand – from agricultural labourers to computer programmers, bus drivers to doctors.
        So let’s deconstruct that.
        The demand for labour is insatiable when labour is free. When it is cheap there is a high demand.
        The colonial regime knows it can use more labour if it comes at very little cost, and it imagines that it can make labour cheaper by increasing the supply through immigration.
        There are all these colonial capitalist entrepreneurs who declare to themselves and anyone else prepared to listen “I could be a great success if only I could have free labour”.
        In days gone by colonial capital could have opted for slave labour, but even that came at a price, and the reality is that there can be no such thing as free labour for colonial capitalism.
        For structural reasons, mainly related to the price of inputs to labour (particularly housing and food) the price of ordinary unskilled labour in New Zealand is already close to its lowest possible sustainable level.
        So we can’t say that there is a shortage of labour, and we can’t even argue that labour is over-priced. There is rather an excess of greed. Capitalists who are wanting to squeeze more out of the land and out of labour than either can sustainably provide. If immigration was to cease, the hopes of these greedy, foolish and often (but not always) lazy capitalists would be dashed. But what would be wrong with that? It has to happen at some time and in some way. Simply saying to them “Give up your dreams of cheap labour, and go join the labour force yourself” would actually be quite a kind way of dealing with the problem.

    • Except that a population policy wont do anything for roads health or schools. Neoliberalism is epitomised by the Israeli attitude to Palestinians. Work out the bare minimum of calories needed to survive and then subtract a handful or more of the trucks and make those you allow wait at the border until all the fresh food and meat has rotted. If by some miracle Jones population policy lets some more money become available though how this fantasy is supposed to occur no one has spelled out then you can be sure that there will be a lot of military hardware that suddenly becomes desireable or taxes for the rich and corporations that need lowering. And if you think that at least there wont be so much demand on the existing infrastructure then all that will happen is that any new stuff wont need to be built. We will be left with the same struggle as always and just be forced into going back to blaming beneficiaries and welfare recipients as was the case in the past. Of course, theres always that old chestnut of blaming Maori and/or Pacific Islanders.. Im not sure when or if it will ever sink in that those in power under a neoliberal system require an underclass that everyone else blames for whatever is wrong in society or if we will ever wake up to the fact that people aren’t the problem. The problem is the system. The system values things purely as an instrument for profit regardless of benefit or toxicity. This system is run by and for those at the top and the viciousness of the system is obvious in coups like Bolivia where the gloves come off and the fascists and death squads are set loose. But hey, how could we otherwise afford the lithium batteries for our oh so cool Tesla cars? And if we cant have lithium batteries how we gonna save the planet? So you see people have to be expendable so we gotta ram this populationist trope down your throat so you get to understand that people are the problem and really we got the health of the planet at heart. I dont think… Stay strong with the people and you will always find yourself on the right side of any argument and if they crucify you for it youll know youre in good company.

  7. Labour keep giving those votes to the National party!

    Last time I looked Labour and Greens have traditionally more appeal to woman, and kicking up a fuss for an identify group that creates more visas for arranged marriages ain’t going to look good to the average woman voter in NZ, nor is the implicit blackmail that Indian voters supposedly won’t vote for Labour if their demands are not met (aged parents and arranged marriages running non stop in MSM) and that it is now acceptable to influence our voting in this way for certain groups financial benefit!

    Jacinda would look a lot better if she is not constantly capitulating on identity issues, just like Labour and Greens weird policy on this and other fringe areas, aka the new takeaway, period poverty! My guess is that most people in period poverty around NZ are just in plain poverty, so it just seems desperately Marie Antoinette but worse, if that fringe policy is being promoted! Surely not! Oh no!

    For those that see those in million dollar McMansions stepping out of their Mercedes with their community services card in Auckland because they have no income, it can be a bit too much to take.

    Instead of inclusive policy, Labour and Greens seem determined to go down the exclusive ones instead and piss people off with irrelevant issues to the majority, while often bringing in new taxes to pay for it all for the easy targets!

    Natz make it easy, tax cuts to workers! You don’t need a PHD and an accountancy degree for tax credits, to work that one out nor do you if you are waiting for an operation or send your kids to schools full of construction and ‘shared’ classrooms, drive through the endless roadworks everywhere, find out that thousands being bought into NZ under Labours kind face, will be in the Health and education queues who currently don’t live here.

    Not even getting into housing!

    And I don’t vote the Natz, but find it easy to work out why people may!

    • “Jacinda would look a lot better if she is not constantly capitulating on identity issues …” But Jacinda is all about identity politics, and there’s the problem. As Chris Trotter has pointed out in his latest article, this change in policy is a signal that ethnic minorities are licensed to develop their own cultural enclaves within NZ. I’m wondering how this government would react to a demand from NZ’s Islamic community for sharia law.

  8. So in effect bowing to pressure from one ethnic group / reinforcing a patriarchy that NZ as a whole rejects / pandering to a group who votes National anyway?

  9. Martyn, we tolerate a lot of things which are not good. To facilitate them is to go a step further, and in this case a step too far.
    The problem with arranged marriages is that their intention is to maintain class, caste and racial purity. Jacinda may be comfortable with a society rigidly divided along lines of race and caste, but many of us are not.
    Are you really happy at the prospect of living in a society riven by class, caste and racial divisions?

    • BIG difference @ Geoff, BUT a fine line between ARRANGED marriages and FORCED marriages – and of course there’s been a lot of conflation between the two – usually from people who know nothing about them.
      One thing is for sure though, INZ is often incapable of differentiating between the two, as are others desperately trying to claim and prove things like their feminist credentials.
      The grossest thing is the Forced Marriage. Most Arranged marriages I’ve ever witnessed or been a part of have been put together without any sort of force, and usually by women whose feminist credentials are a shit show stronger than most I’ve witnessed.
      Apparently though, more tolerable are things like Married at First Sight relationships where reality TV show producers play cupid, and Tinder is now reigning supreme.

      • ”…Apparently though, more tolerable are things like Married at First Sight relationships where reality TV show producers play cupid, and Tinder is now reigning supreme” …

        Here’s a handle for you to grapple with…

        Merle Haggard and Willie Nelson – Okie from muskogee
        https://youtu.be/n4AgZST_TG8?t=34

        … ‘cept my hair is long and shaggy… and grey. I’m a Boomer.

  10. these perhaps and becauses are very interesting but let us all remember .

    we have 14000 newzealanders waiting for emergency housing
    40 000 homeless .yes that is correct 40 000 homeless
    we no longer have kiwi build ,our infrastructure is in gridlock
    we have lost 90 % of our wetlands , by 2030 half of the worlds oceans will be reeling from climate change ,the worlds insects are hurtling down the path to extinction , as are the worlds other species and forestation . our canoe is full and cant take any more no matter where they are from or what religion they profess .lets keep our eyes on the ball and not get distracted .
    oh and yes with climate change there is a tipping point no body is really sure when that will be reached
    but things remaining the same it will be reached and then its all over rover .

    they say we have time but that time is now , so lets get cracking, you little beauties and lets get on with it.

  11. Jesus this is depressing!
    Actually the only reason I now look at some posts and the comments that follow, is to watch how various factions of “the left” are so good at shooting each other in the foot.

  12. You cannot have both, multiculturalism and biculturalism, one rules out the other, simple logic, really. Maori will drown in the sea of a migrant mix that will not have much time for Te Tirity.

  13. Today at Newshub…

    Wokies need to get out more, cultures around the world have different views, and maybe Indian justice services and police need to be the ones to get rid of out dated practises and ideas like this, NZ already has enough problems with the migrants already here breaking the laws!

    Raped Indian teen urged to sell baby – reports
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/world/2019/11/raped-indian-teen-urged-to-sell-baby-reports.html

    Religious organisations can be just as exploitative!

    Sikh temple to pay $100k for breaching employment laws
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/business/117040153/sikh-temple-to-pay-100k-for-breaching-employment-laws

    Why are we allowing this to happen! There is so much evidence that there is widespread misuse of NZ visas and the NZ government just adds more by allowing more relatives and spouses into NZ on the backs of often fraudulent visas in the first place!

    22 restaurants, 120 staff – and now a $40,000 fine
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12014023

    The Big Scam: ‘Marriages for sale’ in alleged visa rort
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/108067804/the-big-scam-marriages-for-sale-in-alleged-visa-rort

    Indian restaurant bosses fined for exploitation
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/287183/indian-restaurant-bosses-fined-for-exploitation

    Indian businesses ‘sell’ jobs for visas to students
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/336687/indian-businesses-sell-jobs-for-visas-to-students

    The Indian women paying for a NZ education with their freedom
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/voices/audio/2018636396/the-indian-women-paying-for-a-nz-education-with-their-freedom

    Immigration marriage and dowry scams on the rise, says charity
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12123831

  14. This person is not Indian, but its the same issue with our temp immigration visas – it costs hundreds of thousands to deport people who break the laws who appeal, then come back under other identities etc.

    The visa people should only be giving out visas to people who are clearly real students or workers and then limit it to 10,000 visas at the most. First thing to happen is that the ponzi will dry up which will stop more new victims and or exploiters being bought into the ponzi!

    https://www.odt.co.nz/news/national/rnz/man-who-misled-immigration-nz-deported

    NZ is clearly got an international reputation for being a soft touch for crims and they fail to strip residency or citizenship off people who break the law here!

    Child abuser wins right to stay in New Zealand for humanitarian reasons
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84891031/child-abuser-wins-right-to-stay-in-new-zealand-for-humanitarian-reasons

    Child abuse dad avoids deportation on humanitarian grounds to stay with family
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/76059417/

    Iain Lees-Galloway chose ‘lazy’ option granting residency to drink-driver – Simon Bridges
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/10/iain-lees-galloway-chose-lazy-option-granting-residency-to-drink-driver-simon-bridges.html

    New resident convicted of sex offending twice, won’t be deported
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11837608

    Judge’s difficult sentencing of a former refugee who won’t stop offending
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/111480343/judges-difficult-sentencing-of-a-refugee-who-wont-stop-offending

    Rapist wins case to be allowed to stay in NZ
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/national/327784/rapist-wins-case-to-be-allowed-to-stay-in-nz

    Rich building boss guilty of immigration fraud after residency granted, loses court battle with Herald
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12171615

    William Yan AKA Bill Liu to keep NZ citizenship despite money laundering conviction
    https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11905478

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