The Daily Blog Open Mic – Saturday – 9th November 2019

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Announce protest actions, general chit chat or give your opinion on issues we haven’t covered for the day.

Moderation rules are more lenient for this section, but try and play nicely.

EDITORS NOTE: – By the way, here’s a list of shit that will get your comment dumped. Sexist language, homophobic language, racist language, anti-muslim hate, transphobic language, Chemtrails, 9/11 truthers, climate deniers, anti-fluoride fanatics, anti-vaxxer lunatics and ANYONE that links to fucking infowar.

40 COMMENTS

  1. People on trial for murder should not get name suppression!

    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/117176027/grace-millane-murder-trial-british-backpackers-family-arrives-at-court-to-face-alleged-killer

    Nor should people arrested for fraud with rubbish bags containing 4 million in cash lying around laughably be considered meeting the legal test for extreme hardship and therefore need name suppression!

    Cigarette smuggling case: Defendants keep names secret to protect children, employees
    https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/115014183/cigarette-smuggling-case-defendants-keep-names-secret-to-protect-children-employees

    Sounds like justice is getting more related to how much money and influence you have in NZ these days, not related to any type of natural justice, and not exactly an even playing field for everyone!

    • Don’t agree, in ANY trial, it must be innocent until proven guilty, while some cases seem obvious to draw presumptions from, you still must follow the rule of law and the course of justice.

      • They are still presumed innocent but for transparency should still be named!

        That is the tenant of our justice system which seems to now be able to be manipulated for folks that have money, economics, connections or just a great lawyer to hide behind!

        Someone like Gable Tostee, they may be found not guilty but the unpleasant aspects of the case should be a warning to others about his personality.

    • Welcome to New Zealand @savenz! Respect our authority and assimilate before the rush.
      That nice little place in the South Pacific where blokes can be blokes, egalitarian, where prejudice doesn’t exist, and a laid-back utopia. We don’t really know how lucky we are eh?
      And better still – there is SFA corruption, because all sorts of surveys rank this plucky little country that punches above its weight high on international indexes.
      We’re just intrinsically against all that nasty, dishonest, sleazy, hypocritical shit, and all the double standards that go with it.

      • Oh, and that “retail politician” going full Dutton on RNZ this morning with “queue jumper” talking points could have been a step too far.

        The sad thing is that none of it need have happened.

        Probably just as well then that (as the man with an ego the size of a bus, and an oil slick left behind after a single dirty dieisel run to auckland’s southern suburbs said himself), Tracey Martin deals with social issues.

  2. In the other high profile murder case, the thirty-something Dunedin doctor who hung out with teens, tried to solicit girls for sex and supposedly stabbed a mate to death, no name suppression was given. It’s obvious the judicial system is not standardised and rules are just made up how some feel fit (I won’t go into the big courtroom act that defence lawyers deliver on behalf of their clients; the victim consented this, it was accidental that, on and on like some sort of habitual fucking liar in denial themselves). As for the scumbags on trial, if this is what OK Millenial online dating is all about then you can shove that up your arse. If this is the state of health professionals in this country then it is probably better to suffer your illness in silence then seek medical advice from the likes of this psychopath. Yuck. Maybe the countries still living in medieval times do have the answer, murderers don’t deserve to live among us.

    • @Popeye, I agree, not sure how the Grace case accused got name suppression, maybe that the poor victim was a tourist which automatically generates the idea that tourism aka $$$$ might suffer in NZ if it gains international traction that NZ is not a safe place for young women tourists, (or the NZ tradition is to hide the identity if the accused is a sports personality or lots of cash, who knows!).

      Government and judicial system less concerned about young local women being murdered – aka Amber-Rose Rush because it does not generate international headlines.

      I agree the judicial system needs to be more standardised and it should be only once in a blue moon people on serious charges get name suppression, not as it seems becoming quite common!

      • I read a piece recently on why the Name Suppression law got into our law. There was a specific time and case I think that sparked it. And also ISTR it is used more widely and frequently than initially envisaged. It could be Bowalley Road where I read it?

  3. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1911/S00075/ceac-today-last-day-to-submit-changes-to-rma-reform-bill.htm

    Politics
    CEAC – today last day to submit changes to RMA Reform Bill
    Thursday, 7 November 2019, 8:46 am
    Press Release: Citizens Environmental Advocacy Centre
    Wednesday, 7th November 2019,

    CEAC reminder that 7th November is the last day for submissions submission on Resource Management Reform Bill

    Reforming of the RMA is needed to include protection for all citizens “health and well-being”.
    Why?
    On 11th September 2019 Hon Grant Robertson Minister of Finance issued a welcome ‘clear directive’ in the press to ensure every Government considers the wellbeing of New Zealanders when creating future budgets.
    12th September we wrote about RMA changes we considered important for Citizens; now we wish to ‘refresh’ them again. http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PO1909/S00163/ceac-support-wellbeing-to-be-enshrined-in-law.htm
    QUOTE; Government’ to ensure every Government considers the wellbeing of New Zealanders when creating future budgets.
    http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1909/S00080/wellbeing-to-be-enshrined-in-law.htm
    QUOTE: Legislation has been introduced in Parliament today to ensure every Government considers the wellbeing of New Zealanders when creating future budgets.
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson says the successful delivery of the Wellbeing Budget this year placed wellbeing at the heart of the Government’s policy-making.
    UNQUOTE;
    CEAC recommends Government needs to be far more actively involved with a robust and inclusive involvement when directing central/local governments and all agencies and businesses when they set their planning documents and now the reforming of the RMA must include changes reflecting that RMA is now legally directing that everyone considers during planning that; QUOTE; “placed wellbeing at the heart of the Government’s policy-making”..
    For instance, when we present our verbal/written submissions to local government planning meetings most of those committees have no knowledge or involvement with any government directives of considering “Community wellbeing at all so the submissions are usually ignored and we are left totally without any wellbeing.
    CEAC recalls when the last National Government setup directives within central/local Governments and all agencies and businesses, Steven Joyce the Minister of Finance who set up of the ‘Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment’ (MBIE) sent a (reported) very strong directive to all staff in those agencies and business interests that MBIE covers, to ‘strictly’ follow the directives set in place by his office.
    We encourage Grant Robertson who has the same Ministerial responsibility as Steven Joyce had, now carry out the same ‘blunt’ strict compliant directive instrument to all staff get all agencies and industry to comply with Government policy.
    Because under National using a ‘strict blunt directive instrument’ sadly was ultimately required using that depth of his directive that was ultimately successful in having it adhered to, as Steven Joyce was known as being a forceful individual.
    But under the current Government most Central/local Government, their agencies and business had failed miserably to comply with Government policy directives/legislation in planning for “Community wellbeing” within their planning instruments thus far at the detriment of the communities health and wellbeing.
    Wellbeing to be enshrined in law
    Wednesday, 11 September 2019, 2:24 pm
    Press Release: New Zealand Government
    Hon Grant Robertson
    Minister of Finance
    11 September 2019 PĀNUI PĀPĀHO
    MEDIA STATEMENT
    QUOTE;
    Legislation has been introduced in Parliament today to ensure every Government considers the wellbeing of New Zealanders when creating future budgets.
    Finance Minister Grant Robertson says the successful delivery of the Wellbeing Budget this year placed wellbeing at the heart of the Government’s policy-making.
    “However, achieving genuine and enduring change requires establishing a public sector and systems geared towards this new way of working.
    “Rather than measuring progress in purely economic terms, this Government is committed to taking a broader approach to measuring New Zealand’s progress.
    “This includes fiscal policy, where we want to consider the wellbeing of our environment, people and communities, alongside existing macroeconomic and fiscal indicators,” Grant Robertson says.
    The Public Finance (Wellbeing) Amendment Bill achieves this by requiring the Government to set wellbeing objectives and explain how those objectives will guide the development of its Budget.
    It will also require the Treasury to report periodically on the state of wellbeing in New Zealand.
    “We need to support long-term intergenerational wellbeing and a build a more forward-looking, strategic focus into our Budget process.
    “We will always have a careful and close eye on our fiscal performance, but New Zealanders have told us that that is not sufficient.
    “We’ll keep the strengths of our current statutory fiscal requirements, and build on these with a wider framework.
    “A Budget needs to reflect the importance of the health of our people, our environment, and our communities, and that is what this Bill will do,” Grant Robertson says.
    The changes are expected to be in place for Budget 2020.
    UNQUOTE
    Finally ;TO Hon’ Gant Robertson;
    Please give consideration to our loss of local body representation; when CEAC as possibly others as NGO’s presents our many verbal/written submissions to local Government Annual Plans meetings, as we find that most of those committee members have absolutely no care, consideration, knowledge or involvement with any Government directives of considering ‘Community wellbeing’ at all, – so the submissions are usually ignored and we are left totally without any wellbeing, and that is a loss to our communities environment, health, wellbeing and demoralising to our community.
    We used to have a Ministry of Transport official from Wellington always attend our HB Regional Council Land transport Meetings who was very supportive of our submissions we gave before their committee about our community concerns of the ‘environmental impact of road transport issues’ but sadly when National came into government in 2008 we lost all Ministry of Transport representation, and our support for better environmental transport planning.
    We advise that this Government must now arrange to have an ‘Environmental Community Health and Wellbeing Consultant’ preferably from the Ministry of the Environment and Transport to represent communities at every Local Body Plan meetings (including transport) in NZ in future to fully promote this worthy policy; quote; ‘policy, where we want to consider the wellbeing of our environment, people and communities’.
    END

  4. This is the problem with having hundreds of thousands of people every year coming to NZ on all kinds of temp permits. They have kids, they have violent relationships that break up, they live in different countries, they have different cultures and expectations, it gets messier and messier!

    https://www.odt.co.nz/regions/queenstown/mother-fears-having-leave

    People come on temporary work or student visas, and next minute are pregnant and have multiple children here, and don’t want to go home and then have kids in the mix to boot!

    What happens to the kids when two different nationals disagree over children access and live in different countries! It is not good for the kids and not acceptable to be a way to get permanent residency in NZ when NZ always gives residency on this driving this as a way to get permanent residency based on a Ponzi!

    If someone gets pregnant here on a temp visa they should have to return to their country of origin to have their baby, likewise the men do the same and apply from their home country, to stop the constant situation and abuse of children in immigration and inter relational conflicts!

    If anybody on a temp permit knows they will have to return, then it makes it very fair for all concerned and pushes people to leave having a family until after they qualify for permanent residency/citzienship in NZ and they only have a 20% odd chance of that, so need to hold off the family because the NZ maternity, hospitals, family courts, Oranga Tamariki etc are heaving with all the cases and we have to start prioritising those who live here and start pouring resources into intergenerational poverty and violence of our existing citizens who seem to be getting poorer and with more drug use and massive amounts of people who are no longer vaccinated etc

    A temp permit into NZ should just be that, and very clear that is what is being offered aka NOT stay as long as possible, have kids, lose touch with their home country and pin everything on staying here when their permit does not allow it!

    Allowing young kids to grow up in NZ in violent inter country relationships should be discouraged by making anybody on temp permits return to country of origin upon starting a family on a temp permit. If the relationship is genuine not a violent one, then they can apply to come back, meet the criteria and the father can visit in the other country not always NZ social services picking up the messy relationship and NZ being the place to raise the kids!

    We already have a massive Oranga Tamariki issue in NZ, full family courts, massive existing family violence here, measles outbreaks, full schools and local women giving birth in car parks!

    • See there’s where you’re getting a bit desperate @SaveNZ or @J or whatever.

      “This is the problem with having hundreds of thousands of people every year coming to NZ on all kinds of temp permits. They have kids, they have violent relationships that break up, they live in different countries, they have different cultures and expectations, it gets messier and messier!”

      THEY have kids. THEY have violent relationships that break up. THEY live in different countries. THEY have different cultures and expectations. (IT sure does get messy)

      • @OnceWasTim, I think that if the government bothers to go and work out the amount of births registered in NZ by non citizens of NZ living in NZ from the previous years and the percentage change, the amount of people who gain residency only to go onto social welfare like the DPB with a few years of the ink drying on the paperwork of permeant residency when their marriage breaks up (and increasingly like this case trying to gain residency on the basis of being an exception to stay in NZ) and the percentage increase in foreign nationals needing family court over the last few years… then the issue is obvious – especially to anybody using those over utilised services full of demand!

        But in NZ we don’t bother to plan ahead, can’t even organise a national census anymore, make our officials and commentators full of woke Neoliberals, who ideologically don’t want to see the bigger picture going forward, aka the often confused Eaqub who funny enough often predicts the opposite of what happens in NZ as the ‘expert’ MSM voice!

        Already the MSM are in full clean up mode with the Shane Jones incident, the woke Listener in overdrive, RNZ has been running pro visa articles non stop to get the aged migrant parents in and more arranged marriages which are ‘disadvantaged’, while the most in the Labour and Green governments and MSM has not worked out that the people have had enough and ain’t going to vote for more of the same from Natz!

        And getting Natz back in, is clearly an advantage for the neoliberal MSM!

  5. When is this ex banker slash woke and right wing guru NOT confused, possibly because he does not believe massive immigration effects housing (migrants apparently live in thin air) or has zero understanding that economy strength can be achieved by negative things like earthquakes which are at odds with most people’s idea of social good ad goals but still produce growth and profits for the economy, amid the disaster?

    Lack of economic crash confuses economist
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/11/lack-of-economic-crash-confuses-economist.html

    Remember when he told the world that buying a house was a bad investment as it was about to crash and he would never buy one??? House prices have since probably tripled and he bought a house himself!

    Don’t worry other neoliberals also confused that Rogernomics did not work!

    “New Zealand’s persistently low productivity has long puzzled the OECD, despite expectations the far-reaching reforms of the late 1980s and early 1990s – which the OECD championed – would reverse that.”

  6. Did you the hear the one about a prime minister spending $100k on a comedian’s holiday on the pretext of it increasing exposure to NZ, when a million pages about NZ are a click away on the internet?

    • Jody You haven’t a reasoned view on this. We are interested in keeping up NZ profile and world image with the overall public just not with the tappers online. It is cheap publicity and will help keep us before the world which will tend to keep listening to us as they have already done. And there will be tourists still coming to NZ who will be providing jobs for people you know.

  7. Anyone know if Jon Johansson is still on ‘the Team’?
    If so, give that man a bloody pay rise quick smart, and if he’s back on the durries (not sure if he ever left them) – put it all as a fringe benefit in his contract – paid and done for. Give him a fucking awesome retirement plan as well
    I know prostitution is legal, but if his mission has to be finding ways to make Shane look respectable, and a viable candidate as successor for Uncle Winnie, AND to survive past the next electoral cycle, there really are better options

  8. National MP says benefit cuts could be good for Māori, strengthen whānau
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/news/te-manu-korihi/402829/national-mp-says-benefit-cuts-could-be-good-for-maori-strengthen-whanau
    Sure going cold turkey, suffering more deprivation, anomie, stress from being sidelined in society, and neolib freemarket destruction of self-supporting small local business and the jobs that went with it in the circular economy we were taught in school economics. All that the Government needs to do is to run community parent workshops, set up work schemes attending to things needing to do that give jobs, encourage young adults to start green businesses, and the welfare bill will go down. Let people find a future path, a plan for life instead of the hands off, and sneer which the comfortably off pakeha do so well. It is sad to see the simplistic, moralistic tone coming from a Maori.
    (Note: Shane Jones is talking encouragingly about supporting local businesses. Good one!)

    And to show her conservative soul? she wants to interfere with the efforts that some youth have taken to find their own way through the LG…. community by preventing any talk about it at school, making it another no-no difficulty for the young.
    April 2019 National MP Joanne Hayes has been accused of giving a “megaphone to intolerance” after accepting a petition to Parliament to remove the teaching of gender diversity in New Zealand schools.
    https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/04/national-mp-joanne-hayes-under-fire-for-accepting-dangerous-education-petition.html

    There is a whiff of incense coming from Parliament. Bill English and Dr Mary English were conservative Catholics ready to force people to their rigid thinking. And Maggie Barry. I wonder what and who are behind the principles and practice of Oranga Tamariki? And now Luxon is said to be an evangelical Christian. I hope that doesn’t mean he is in a cult like Exclusive Brethren, or one of those ready to denigrate ordinary human nature and centre their attention on sexual behaviour. They are so obsessed with it these religious. And as they are mesmerised or busy trying to stamp it out, they choose not to notice homelessness, poverty, depression, dangerous addictions, violence, criminality, hopelessness, which could be nearly eliminated by government with cost-efficient kindly and practical measures sensibly monitored.

  9. Is this efficient? Some of this money could have gone into some State housing, Grant Robertson is so busy being the good boy when he should be putting down any doubters that a few limited housing projects at least would be that valuable first step. When there should be some community housing being a project for unskilled trainees, suitable, to learn how to get building.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018721383/motels-make-millions-providing-emergency-housing

  10. Great (sarcasm) to see Labour lites following the Natz tradition by creating more expensive social housing, more people needing social housing and enriching business in the process! Great for the economy! Lets bring in more people to NZ to compete in this space, give them permanent residency or needing accomodation and keep the Ponzi going!

    Motels make millions providing emergency housing
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018721383/motels-make-millions-providing-emergency-housing

    New social housing complex ‘a dream’ after two years’ homeless.
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018721391/new-social-housing-complex-a-dream-after-two-years-homeless

    While the headline sounds great, 28 million is a lot of homes that could have been bought 5 years ago instead of selling the state housing to give the money to others even well regarded charities like Salvation Army, to build new housing that is owned by them not the government and the quality of space for kids to run around, people to enjoy in the state house model, becoming a thing of the past.

    These people have to share bathrooms and kitchens while being bullied and not having the ability to take the social housing agency to the tenancy tribunal!
    https://www.rnz.co.nz/national/programmes/checkpoint/audio/2018695582/social-housing-complex-tenants-feel-bullied-by-operator

    Aka, so less space, less accountability, less privacy, more expensive and with more expensive ongoing costs for the government, less democracy… does this model really seem better than the previous successful state housing model with housing NZ?

    • To give an idea of an alternative reality for social housing, if 6 years ago before the ‘demand’ situation escalated out of the stratosphere in Auckland, you could purchase a freehold studio apartment in Auckland CBD for $160k which was well within the means of many people’s incomes.

      With a social housing budget of $28 million being utilised by the government (in this case above it was mostly paid by Salvation Army by sounds of it) the government through housing NZ could have had the ability to buy approx 175 freehold separate housing units… the Salvation Army new build only has 50 units and located out of the CBD.

      The model of the government buying exisiting housing 6 years ago (not building it through complex PPP’s and corporate construction welfare) would have not only tripled the housing available, they could have had all the means tested rents coming, in not thousands in motels and on the streets as the current practise waiting for a new build home.

      Not only that, the social housing tenants would have been housed within a diverse community not just a bunch of people with a lot of high needs all together (aka can quickly become a slum or make people more mentally ill), and if a disaster happens aka a fire or renovation needed, the housing is spread out and less affected by a single event…

      From a social and economic point of view, the government went wrong. The question is, why are Labour continuing with the Natz strategy of new build construction by private social housing providers, with a kinder face, when the figures and outcomes don’t make much sense?

  11. Just in case nobody notices it, it is important that ‘The British Lords’ rushed through a last-minute
    detailed report, apparently clause by clause, of what Johnason has announced that should be considered before the coming election.
    https://bylinetimes.com/2019/11/08/boris-johnsons-brexit-withdrawal-bill-power-grabs-torpedoed-by-house-of-lords-peers/
    (About Byline Times – could be interesting to watch.
    Byline Times is run by a small dedicated team, providing a platform for freelance journalists passionate about reporting on issues not covered elsewhere.
    Peter Jukes and Stephen Colegrave are the newspaper’s founders and executive editors.
    Hardeep Matharu is editor of Byline Times, with day-to-day responsibility of the news site. Hardeep also edits the monthly print edition newspaper, which is produced and designed by Peter Jukes and the design team at Yes We Work.
    Ella Baddeley is Byline Times’ editorial assistant.)
    Byline Times does not intend to report the daily news cycle. That’s for others. Our aim is to concentrate on ‘what the papers don’t say’ and investigate the untold stories of modern Britain.

    • Personality and identity politics has nothing to do with it. BREXIT happened because of crony capitalism not Boris, Terresa May or Cameron. 6 banks should never have been allowed to dominate 70%-80% of U.K. and U.S. deposits, mortgages and Wall Street. Thats not Capitalism. Capitalism is having thousands of banks in competition.

  12. Thank Fucking Christ someone has been able to put it a little more succinctly than me. Even if it was on that bloody Spinoff where corduroy and grunge must be due for a comeback.
    Shame she couldn’t have made it to Newsroom.
    https://thespinoff.co.nz/society/09-11-2019/busting-myths-about-arranged-marriage/

    Bloody Indians though eh?!!!! They’re all the bloody fucking same (/sarc)
    https://www.reddit.com/r/InterestingVideoClips/comments/d2svel/have_you_ever_seen_two_angry_indian_men_fighting/
    Gawsh, how uncivilised!

    • Generous to call Spinoffs shallow 3 meagre points for pro arranged marriages “succinct” or could be another article to drive click bytes for the usual trite identity offering on Spinoff, which fails to provide any statistics or depth, for mainly paid for and promoted content.

      BTW it’s not the arranged marriages that seem to be annoying the average person, in NZ, it’s the entitlement that groups want the visa rules changed for their sole benefit for a cultural practise we do not subscribe to in NZ.

      AKA 40% of parents in Indian marriages expect a dowry – and it is the richer Indians that use dowry to show status, even though it is banned in India and there are plenty of scams related to the status of an overseas citizenship and making money out of it!

      Marrying for the money: The dark side of India’s dowry culture
      https://www.sbs.com.au/topics/life/culture/article/2017/03/22/marrying-money-dark-side-indias-dowry-culture

      “A 1995 study showed that while attitudes of people are changing about dowry, dowry continues to prevail.[30][32] In a 1980 study conducted by Rao, 75% of students responded that dowry was not important to marriage, but 40% of their parents’ likely expected dowry.[30]

      While India has been making progress for women’s rights, women continue to be in a subordinate status in their family.[33][34] Women’s education, income, and health are some significant factors that play into the dowry system, and for how much control a woman has over her marriage.[34]”

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowry_system_in_India

      According to this article by a womens rights organisation…

      “Another deeply rooted and troublesome issue is the domestic violence against women. According to the statistics held by National Crime Records Bureau, the crime against women is committed every three minutes.

      Women are raped every 29 minutes and dowry death happens occurs every 77 minutes. Women very often become victims in their own families by their husbands, brothers or other family members.

      The domestic violence does not only include physical violence but also emotional, verbal and sexual abuse. Very often women feel fear to talk about the domestic violence committed against them as they think that it will harm their reputation and will be an accepted as a disrespectful deep by the society.

      Women in India think that remaining silent about the violence by their husbands and tolerating everything will be the best solution both for them and their families.”

      https://women-s.net/womens-rights-issues-in-india/

      Lets not let real facts get in the way for wokies and exploiters who want patriarchal related practises to keep easy NZ visa gravy train flowing into their back pockets!

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