Labour’s Fatal Flaw



WILL ANYBODY IN the Labour Party learn anything from this latest debacle? It seems doubtful, especially coming so soon after the 2018 Summer School Scandal. Nigel Haworth, who didn’t so much fall on his sword this morning (11/9/19) as get thrust very roughly into it, has gone, but the malady lingers on.

What Labour is suffering from is a disease that is easy to diagnose but hard to explain. The Ancient Greeks called it hubris – roughly defined as: “excessive pride and/or over-confidence”. That’s fine, as far as it goes, but a better sense of the word’s meaning is gleaned by listing its synonyms:arrogance, conceitedness, haughtiness, pride, vanity, self-importance, pomposity, superciliousness, hauteur. Those afflicted by the fatal flaw of hubrisharbour unfaltering feelings of superiority over all those lesser breeds with whom they are forced to have dealings. It is usually fatal.

The time-line of this latest scandal, helpfully pulled together by the journalists at The Spinoff, reveals just how seriously infected Labour has become by the hubris disease. Throughout the crooked course of this tawdry saga every one of the synonyms listed above has been in evidence; and each character failing appears to have occasioned a corresponding failure in performance. That’s the awful thing about hubris: its way of leading the sufferer into terrible misjudgements and mistakes. Wonderful for driving forward the action in Ancient Greek theatre. Not so helpful in politics.

It wouldn’t be so bad if Labour had a lot to feel excessively prideful and over-confident about. But they don’t. The party’s record since 2008 has been one of ever-worsening failure – calibrated by the steady decline in Labour’s Party Vote up until 2017. And who was the person who rescued the party’s fortunes that fateful year? It most certainly wasn’t Nigel Haworth; or the Labour Caucus; or the clowns in the Leader’s Office. No, it was Jacinda Ardern wot won it. Except, of course, not even that is true. The person wot won it for Labour in 2017 was Winston Peters.

And yet the hauteur of Labour MPs and their party-dwelling apparatchiks remains undiminished. They still evince utter disdain for all those “lesser breeds without the law”.

Rudyard Kipling’s line is especially apt in this context, because it is the Labour Party’s movers-and-shakers understanding of what constitutes “the law” that lies at the very heart of their hubris.

Jacinda, herself, must have come into contact with it during her brief stint as one of Tony Blair’s bright young things in the early-2000s. The key question for any Blairite was whether or not so-and-so “gets it”. Gets what? Simple: the whole “New Labour”, “Neoliberal”, “Post-Thatcher” – call it what you will – “project”. You were either smart enough (and ambitious enough) to get that the days of old-fashioned social-democracy (don’t even mention the word ‘socialism’!) were over, and that capitalism had won the battle of ideas hands-down, or you weren’t. If you didn’t “get” this – if you still don’t “get it” – then you are no bloody use to anybody who takes politics seriously.

TDB Recommends

Putting all this back into a New Zealand context, the “getting-it” test goes all the way back to Rogernomics. It’s not so much a matter of having to sign-up to everything Roger Douglas and his fellow free-marketeers did. It was more a case of, to make your way forward in the post-1984 Labour Party, you had to make it absolutely clear to all the people who mattered that you had no intention of un-doing it.

That this commitment to the neoliberal status quo must instantly set the movers-and-shakers at odds with a pretty big chunk of their party’s membership; an even larger chunk of its trade union affiliates; and what is still, almost certainly, a majority of Labour’s most loyal voters, only serves to strengthen the perception they have of themselves as a special elite. Among the lesser breeds, they’ll talk up a social-democratic storm – promising them everything from 100,000 affordable houses to the end of child poverty. But, among themselves – among the ones who get it – the objectives, and the rules of the game, are very different.

And yet, these are the rules the young complainants in this latest scandal have had to negotiate their way through: a task made all the more difficult and distressing by the fact that nobody told them what they were. They did not understand that the invitation to come forward with their personal experiences of sexual misconduct was never meant to be taken seriously. They did not grasp that the prime objective of the Labour Party is not to build a better, fairer world, but to win the next election. Or, that the people to be protected within the party are not its younger and most idealistic members, but its most skilled electoral technicians; the paid staffers who know their way around the ever-more-complex circuitry of political power.

These complainants, however, have proved to be fast learners of the elite’s unwritten rules. (Telling their stories to Paula Bennett and The Spinoff proved a masterstroke!) What was supposed to have been “managed” out of sight and off-camera, has been hurled bodily into the media’s unforgiving glare. Suddenly, the vast abyss that separates the idealistic from the hubristic Labour Party (the Labour Party that “gets it”) has been revealed in all its Nietzschean darkness and danger.

So, talk fast Jacinda. You’re talking for your political life.


  1. No doubt theres hubris at play…but also a fair degree of serial victim mentality….without a common goal the two were always going to end in conflict.

  2. Are you sure that this mess the party has found itself in is purely down to hubris Chris? It could be nearly the reverse. If the party hierarchy feels vulnerable, that they can’t afford another abuse scandal to enter the public arena hard on the heals of the last, they might have tried to bury it out of too little self confidence rather than too much. But either way the result seems to have been some very bad decisions.
    D J S

    • @David Stone, Yep agree Labour seem to rock from Hubris to vulnerable and the results is this lack of interest in self analysis on a practical level. They have got too much into marketing spin and industry advisors and poor offical advice (aka MBIE) and flip flop from supporting Rogernomics to the woke sympathies. Both of which are repellant to many ordinary people affected by the policies.

      Labour need to get back into understanding what is right and practical and fair to the ordinary person. People still love Jacinda, and that is because she does not seem like a politician at all, more like somebody real, tangible, kind and fair, who might (fingers crossed) still have some foot in the reality of most NZ’ers lives and make policy to support that.

      The other elephant in the room, is that for the last decade the Natz have skewed the demographics with massive immigration which Labour mostly supported and now politicians have this polar issue and frauds on massive scales operating with the consequences of this unchecked immigration having the wheels coming off under Labour, aka many local firms now starting to go into liquidation like building firms, truck/bus accidents are now common, and the consequences of labour undercutting, refusing to train local workers, and unskilled or fake labour creating a lot more complexity and issues in sectors which wanted the cheap labour but seem unable to work out what was always going to happen next which is, dysfunctional industry full of people who don’t know what they are doing, locals who are disenfranchised from the work force and training (why train to be a bus/truck driver when your wages are $22 p/h, conditions terrible and your contracts end every few years and you are ‘transferred off to another firm) or go into the trades when you do not get paid as another main contractor goes under….

      Labour are better than the Natz, but they have a crap load of issues caused by immigration to unravel and their advisors are neoliberals who will almost certainly get it wrong, wrong, wrong… aka lets give every fake student 3 years extra in the country to ‘find work’ or have a child or what have you… now we have 250k temporary residents each year who have limited skills and communication problems, in the mix…

      How do you find the right candidate where you can just buy a qualification and willing to work for nothing against local workers whose expectations are higher paying back huge student loans and not expecting to live in a container and go to the mission to afford food, while they are in full time work?

        • and I did not even get into what 300,000 new residents each year do to housing and congestion and pollution and health care and schools and waste water, etc, etc …

          Labour are trying to ‘solve’ these issues by throwing a heap of money on growth which with current numbers of immigration vs tax dollars is never going to ever be enough, and is actually not being invested into NZ human capital and productive high paid industries but investment low wage, sunset industries, so that NZ people who paid their taxes for the last decade are now expected to pay for massive amounts of new infrastructure needed to support more people just arriving in the last 10 years because the industries can’t risk manage or change with the times.

          Like health care, the actual spend per person is declining in NZ because the tax money is being spread thinner and thinner. Health care budgets now support much of new budgets being spent on money for new hospitals, more people needing basic health care now living here and infrastructure which doesn’t help those taxpayers currently sick and needing medicine and care immediately or upgrading health offerings with new drugs and procedures.

          By the time the new hospitals are built, there will be so many more people in NZ through population growth that they need to spend and build more and more hospitals, pay more for medicine etc, but the jobs being created are not paying enough taxes to support generous welfare than NZ have come to expect, instead those ‘celebrated’ new jobs are mostly tax negative with the workers doing retail, restaurant, import/exports with a side order of drugs, and the low paid jobs becoming negative.

          To combat this, budgets may look bigger but often the increased money for health care and schools, is not going onto improving kids education/hospitals but construction for new schools and new ways to fit more people into smaller budgets per person.

          Labour are also doing their usual usual screw up’s in education too, (aka Tomorrow’s schools, student fees, unproven or poor experiments) with modern kids expected to learn in ‘shared classrooms’ and a university style of primary school where kids are expected to be their own learners, a ‘process’ style of education and have about 3 – 5 different teachers a day while they are at primary school under the governments plans.

          This is on top of the disastrous Natz, National Standards to boot, and the other experimental educational ideas and issues that NZ children have been subjected to and are now coming out of school with a heap of educational problems and mental issues to boot….and this is also supported in NZ declining in the OECD tables each year for children’s education…

          All mean that Labour need to get up to speed pretty quick but also explains why going slower in radical policy, is what many voters now prefer because from experience, older NZ’ers know that the new ‘ideas’ are often based on ideology and to save governments money, and more often than not, prove to be disastrous in the long term and the risks never looked at before the unfortunate policy experiments start.

      • @ savenz – Immigration again? Wellington has now imported Filipino bus drivers to try and rescue a previously well-functioning bus service wrecked by regional council incompetence.

        • That’s great, (sarcasm), but are their $22 p/h wages paying enough taxes to justify Rogernomics and reducing the bus driving job to the point where NZ workers will not enter the industry and once gaining residency the new drivers can exit the industry too, and go onto the jobseeker allowances… or are the importing of more and more people on low wages enough to pay for the new housing and rental shortages in Wellington and people growing up in motels, which are certainly not helped by an Auckland style immigration solution to prop up fucked up NZ transport policies.

          The number of people receiving the Accommodation Supplement in the June 2019 quarter was 300,741. This was an increase of 16,055 compared to the June 2018 quarter.

          The number of Emergency Housing Special Needs Grants (EH SNG) granted has increased. Compared to the June 2018 quarter, 14,329 more grants were granted, increasing to 23,574 in the June 2019 quarter.

          Great news, more people needing welfare in NZ while the employers shout worker shortages for jobs!

        • @Snowwhite, Agree council incompetence is a big part of many issues that wreak havoc on previously better run services like local transport, also is happening with infrastructure and bad RMA calls.

          Much of which, is also down to undervaluing workers (aka local bus drivers), a lack of interest in the nuts and bolts of council activities which they have privatised or put into COO structures and council executive structures hiding behind elected officials who have nothing to do but spend their time on speculative investments and secretly diverting ratepayer money into corporate welfare or speculative construction/growth projects with disastrous results (Kaipara, Auckland council).

          • savenz – What has happened with the Wgtn bus stuff-up was predicted when the WRC embarked on changing the system – we signed petitions trying to preempt it.

            If the WRC were dependent upon buses themselves, they may have taken more care – but they don’t care. I know at least one workplace where staff now have to cover for others, work extra shifts, lose their at-home time etc, because of public transport unpredictability and failures. Mums and Dads.

            Chances are the Filipino drivers will find Wgtn rather an expensive place to live in – if they can actually find somewhere affordable and reasonable to live. They may also find that not everyone welcomes them with open arms either, because they’re immigrants.

            If the drivers were paid a decent wage this may not have happened, but unfortunately bus passengers don’t have much political clout, and those with the clout will let businesses do whatever they think that they can get away with – which is too much.

            • It’s a typical scenario where the consumers aka users of the bus service seem to be more able to work out what to do and predict future problems, that the neoliberals fail to grasp.

              Apparently the firm they hired to do the new bus routes in Wellington had never done it before… but hey they went through a process! Must work and save money, which is more important than functional public transport…

              Nor the downward results of their failed ideology aka reducing the working wages and conditions eventually drive people out of that industry… so there are shortages of people everywhere.

              There ‘brilliant’ idea (sarcasm) to bring in massive amounts of overseas workers to stem the so called worker shortages then screwed the housing and infrastructure creating shortages and pollution issues and then as they began having families, we now have a teacher shortages in primary schools…

              Meanwhile a growing underclass starts developing of people who have nothing to do and survive on benefits or the working poor, also who now rely on government benefits and charity to make ends meet…. and the growing Meth trade which seems to be going from strength to strength.

              This neoliberalism and free market (supported in NZ by government benefits so not exactly free market at all) is great for many industries like banking and social agencies who turn profits from depravation and shortages and growth… but less so for the day to day lives of people, governments and society…

  3. Jacinda has offered to meet with the alleged victim. The ball is now in the victims court. Let’s see how this plays out but may I suggest that Bridges and Bennett not throw stones in glass houses because Ms Bennett shit will also stick on you!

    • Too late Bert – I think Bennett is covered in it. I would like to think that there is no other woman in Parliament who would politicise this unhappy fiasco the way that Paula Bennett has.

      Every time Bennett opens her mouth about it it adds another layer of stress to the young people in the middle of all this, and she should be old enough to know that the well being of the stressed-out person(s) involved is paramount now, and I suggest that she has shown bad judgment if she is utilising it to showcase herself as defender of the country’s morals. Who will buy that? Not me.

      Bennett et al using this situation to whet the curiosity of prurient persons is so revolting that it may help PM Ardern as it helps draw a contrast with Jacinda Ardern being the patently wholesome person, which she is.
      She is. And when was the last time that we could have said that about a PM ?

      This is certainly not the first work place to mismanage allegations of this nature; it may or may not be hubris, but is just as likely to be the incompetence which can happen anywhere, and the priority now is getting it sorted and having decent processes to deal with such things in future.

      And if National politicos and groupies persist in throwing stones, they may well find that they’re biffing boomerangs.

      • Well said Snow White. Bennetts history of the victim or their names being at the forefront is of no concern of hers. Her name is what is the goal. In fact she is an attack dog on this.
        And now we have Hakesby( She who will not take her husband’s name) writing a herald headline…” The fall of Ardern and the Rise of Bridges”
        Jesus wept! Hakesby must be missing Key and her and Mike’s regular photo shoots.
        It’s a massive long bow to draw to think Bridges is on the rise. Maybe Hawkesby delve a little deeper as to why Bridges was in China?
        Hawkesby you are privileged to write for the Herald but we all know that you and your husband are an extension of the National party. At least try to hide it!

    • Jacinda is become an easier target by the day as the failures of this government start to pile up .Kiwibuild/ fees free /usiness confidence /poverty levels /the Greens in melt down NZFirst losing their mojo and their voters and the next elections starts to loom large . The brow looks very furrowed at the moment

    • Thumbs up to your comment Bert. 100%

      Let’s hope the alleged victims do take up Jacinda’s offer to meet with her, so she is able to apologise face to face to them, despite already having done so publicly and assist justice being done in their favour. That is what a good fair minded strong leader with guts does.

      Personally I can’t see any reason why Jacinda’s offer would be declined. However if it is either declined or ignored (and I sincerely hope it’s not), then the issue IMO will reek of a Natz beat up, by way of one Paula Bennett, acting as Simon Bridges’ henchman (so he is seen to be clean), feeling the need to resort to dredging the putrid swamp of dirty politics, through lack of good workable policies to offer the electorate!

      We will have to wait and see now which way the ball rolls.

  4. Well, I was thinking this was surface politics about the issue of organisational power v. individual justice no one’s dealt well with. Secondarily, I thought what you’ve summed up so well.

    One of the Greats for the New Zealand Idea (while admitting these economics of ours are not infinite. Geez, the worst drop-off ever in prospect. But I love the foolishery, though not my end before my natural life).

  5. When Left talkers no longer appeal to the heart by a direct line the Left has lost their heart. Just need to see Labour speakers in the MSM. Cold as metal, and I’m interested! We preferred Hilary Clinton over Bernie Sanders?! Listener articles along with RNZ politics talks. If we forget our history, our foundation, we forget who we are. Just our plump bellied generation (even Hoskings) between that and anchorlessness.

  6. Nietzsche: We can never have enough power.

    More a disease of wanna b but until the top job is mine a case its presidential isolation: U tell me and I’ll decide whether the president should know.

    This is probably Jacinda’s way out,

  7. If only Labour were the down to earth party it once was. Reality is for me and I suspect others its hard to see any discernible difference between them and National. They have moved to the right and embraced a culture of selfishness as embodied in neo liberalism which is all about getting ahead quite often at someone else’s expense. If they don’t reform as is slowly happening in the UK I do not predict a bright future for them in this country.

    • pull the benefit is acting like she cares this is the women that while a Minister saw fit to breach two beneficiaries privacy and more than likely she did the same to Winstone thinking she could get away with it but she has met her waterloo now has to deal with someone with more power looking forward to her getting her come up ins

  8. Why is this not with the police? This is a serious allegation of a criminal act and the perpetrator needs to be charged, arrested and if found guilty sent to prison. This situation warrants more then a political gossip fest.

    • pull the benefit is acting like she cares this is the women that while a Minister saw fit to breach two beneficiaries privacy and more than likely she did the same to Winstone thinking she could get away with it but she has met her waterloo now has to deal with someone with more power looking forward to her getting her come up ins

    • Peter – When you’re young and disturbed or confused it may not be easy to know what to do. I’ve had a lot of violence in my life, but in my 40’s my daughter had to tell me that I’d just been assaulted; I asked a neighbourhood woman not to park blocking my garage exit and she thumped me in the chest and told me to get a life. My daughter said, “That’s assault,” so I reported it to the police.

      What you say is right here, but this looks like a lengthily played out scenario, and going to the police escalates stress issues which is yet another reason to have good in-house processes in place and to take it from there. It’s important for the perpetrator too because repeat offenders are clearly no good on boundaries and they need to be.

    • The only reason we are even talking about this is because The Spin nub all of our noses in it (and correctly so). As I have come to understand things, young people have kind of shot due process in the head. All though I’m not so sure what that has to do with this or the call out culture and cancel culture but the rules where never that defined in the first place, or at least the powerful like any other weak vs strong don’t like secretes slipping out.

  9. So true, when idealism and principle is exploited by a more cynical and pragmatic authority hierarchy … people go through growing pains – get a reality check.

    This may get way worse – naming could be followed by many women coming out with allegations of more historic abuse.

    • Good advice but not as easy as it sounds in the wake of Louise Nicholas and the taxi driver getting off for allegedly groping after two trials. Our legal system tends to destroy victims of sexual impropriety not the perpetrators and now there are also small amounts of fake claims too.

      Sexual crimes especially on the lower end of the spectrum or from a person in a position of authority, are extremely difficult to investigate and prosecute fairly, and result is exceptionally low rates of conviction.

      The message to people is, do not report sexual crimes.

      When they investigated NZ lawyers, the law society found they are some of the biggest offenders of sexual harassment and young female lawyers who actually have the brains and the ability to complain, don’t, because it is too hard to prove and loss of reputation to the victims is more likely.

    • Unless of course this is Nationals dirty politics playing out again. After all they were making no inroads into this and the right wing Herald is in overdrive on this. Soper, Young,Hosking,Tevett,Hawkesby at al with almost half daily posts, It’s like blood to vampires. Whe’re were they all in the Jami Lee Ross saga?We never ever got to the bottom of the Mike Sabin assault case.Did Key resign over that. That case went to the police, this case went to Paula Bennett ask yourselves?

      • Your comments smack of desperation Bert. The media were ‘all over the Jami Lee Ross saga’ in much the same way that they’re all over this story.

        Your reference to ‘dirty politics’ is tired and lazy – an easy and cliched label to reach for as the pressure goes on. Where is your evidence of dirty politics here? Your nonsense really does demonstrate your desperation to blame everyone and anyone for the mess that Labour has gotten itself into, except the party itself. The Nats didn’t even need to lift a hand – Labour did it to themselves all by themselves.

        Why did the complainants go to Paula Bennett with their stories? It was because the Labour party was so desperate to protect itself; and not the victims. As Chris says, it happened because of the hubrus in the party. This was the act that lit the fuse that is now consuming the Labour Party – hardly a National Party dirty trick.

        • Where is your evidence that the Labour party was so desperate to protect itself?The complainant went to Bennett, why not the police? I suggest to make it political, not ethical. Your nonsense only adds to my comments. Intelligent people have already made reference to the fact that it is indeed National that are desperate to regain power at any cost.( Although a certain donor’s $150,00 would help Nationals coffers and buy a few seats) Dirty Politics was real and only your denial smacks of being tired and lazy, but clearly you did not read the book, I suggest you do, it may enhance your knowledge.

          • Bertie, the word cover up has been mentioned by many. How about this for piece of evidence as an example – in the flawed inquiry undertaken by the party and now discredited,I understand that the alleged perpetrator was allowed to have a lawyer present; the complainants were not. A detail in the great scheme of things, but indicative of the Labour party doing its best to protect itself and seeking to diminish the complainants ability to advocate on their own behalf. Under employment law this immediately discredits the inquiry on basis of unfairness and lack of natural justice.

            You’ll have to ask the complainant why she went to Paula Bennett rather than the police. I don’t know. But your point, what ever it is, is a red herring. As for the rest of your comments really they’re just irrelevant nonsense.

            Have a good day bertie

            • Ocon – For someone who admits that they don’t know apparently pertinent facts, you make far too many assumptions.

              Saying to bert, “Your point, whatever it is, is a red herring,” is illogical.

              How can you possibly say that bert’s point is a red herring when you admit that don’t even know what bert’s point is ?

              You may understand better, if you take bert’s advice and read “Dirty Politics.” I’d suggest that you read “The Hollow Men” too, to gain some insight into the politics of deception.
              If you think you can browbeat people by simply dismissing their comments as tired and lazy, you are in fact a cute little example of the tiresome irrelevancies which make dirty politics a fine art – with finger paints.

              There are personal aspects to this case which I think some know, but are not commenting on, because the most important aspect is the well being of person(s) who are hurting. This is what the focus has to be, not over-simplified comments on employment law not germane to
              the current sad scenario.

              I also suggest that what you regard as irrelevant nonsense, may not be irrelevant nonsense at all. You don’t know that.

              This is now the time for truth to be established insofar as it can be, and it will be. Whether or not Chris Trotter is right in attributing everything to hubris, is as irrelevant as you are.

            • I found your comment gibberish at worst, incoherent at best and possibly you are Mr Bridges in disguise .

              Have a great weekend Oconie

              • bert – Bridges ? Do you think so ? Here was I thinking that Ocon was PB incognito. So does that mean that PB pretends to be Mr Bridges, who thinks that he’s Ocon ? So how do the gender dynamics of that work ?

                No wonder Ocon thinks that you’re a fisherman.
                Nothing wrong with that either, bert, they get to sing lovely duets- with other men – not with one gender pretending to be another gender like Ocon – or Ocon’s alter egos.

                Between you and me, hubris is not a disease either and it never has been, not even in ancient Greece, so Chris and your keyboard pal have that initial premise wrong – no wonder Ocon confuses everything.
                TGIF Again.

                • Snow White? or Snow Flake? I think the latter.

                  If so you’re in good company – Jacinda is increasingly described as flakey.

                  And Labour’s popularity is melting away (see their internal polling).

                  • @Ocon

                    Thank you for thinking.

                    Snow flakes and snow in all its forms melt. Ultimately.

                    Popularity does not melt as such, and popularity should not be the primary factor in decision making.

  10. Very simply, there should be someone above reproach and respected in Labour that anybody should be able to contact if they have a complaint about Labour, and that complaint should be investigated within 24 hours…

    you have it with the DHB’s, lawyers and many other departments in government, a form given out with a complaints procedure given out, clearly on it…

    Labour clearly need a clear and easy to follow complaints procedure (not a talkfest and committee set up that takes 18 months), and they need someone intelligent, practical and with enough integrity (and not too wokie and overreactive) to be in that role, which is to solve any problems and act on complaints quickly, not paper shuffle through the party and re victimise people while allowing bad conduct to be un detected.

    Apparently around 10% of charity volunteers for overseas are also sexual predators… sadly power and misery and disasters, attract their share of opportunistic or predatory people or people who might not be very skilled at professional interpersonal conducts between men and women, who needed to be weeded out as quickly as possible.

    Judging by the amount of political affairs as well, parliament seems rampant in sexual impropriety and measures should be bought in starting with the simple, a working quick complaints procedure.

  11. Mr Tea Cup? I’d like to introduce you to Mrs Storm.
    While sexual harassment and general bullying is repugnant and should be dealt with the old fashioned way, and that is up an alleyway with a mate and a soft ball bat, this is yet another deflection away from more pressing matters. Namely, that we’re financially fucked and we’re getting more fuckeder. But wait? There’s more! We’ll also be, being watched from the darker of the shadows.
    Our traditional farming practises, the one that put bread and sausages on the table and money in your banks has been crippled by neoliberal criminal $-cannibals and you, and you know that this is all about money at the end of an exhausting day.
    ‘Labour’s Fatal Flaw’ is that Labour doesn’t court the farmer away from that other patched-up gangster, the natzo’s.
    Why? Money. Money and Power.
    But how Labour? By the use of logical fallacies to appear as if in opposition to natzo yet sneaking through the back bedroom window to tangle the traitorous truths with them.
    A curative measure? The Truth. The one that Norman Kirk, David Lange, Paul White and no doubt Rod Donald died with on their lips.

  12. To add a wing to my previous comments, Labour has always been more hard-nosed than others. When you’re fighting for the people against the powerful it’s logical. So there was never a flower necklace love is all there is stage. Previous comments also add to the description of Labour’s reality. However, when you don’t have an anchor (84 cut that) no one is going to give you credit.

  13. It will ALL blow over soon and it will be used as a weapon by national for the 2020 election after listening to pull the benefit she reminded me of a kid telling on their sibling or friend for being naughty and the great pleasure she took shows how low and loathed a person she really is . Much of what she said was he said she said.

    • I don’t think it will blow over. Long story short I think people should harden up. What I think will happen is the weaker people will be filtered out. Y’know if you’re an MP I’d be steering well clear of any fragile and emotionally manipulative people.

    • Jody – Nice one ! I tried to do similar and failed…

      Michelle’s right – this will blow over, but the usual suspects will try to milk the whole saga for as long as they can because milking others is the nature of some people who are just too tone deaf to see how much they disgust others.

Comments are closed.