Chinese Consulate praises University of Auckland violence

1. And this is nice moderate China in a foreign country.

   What happens if they flex their muscles on any policy not just the government, universities, etc? NZ has become reliant on China in many areas, including obviously donations, in the Natz quarter in return for a list place and no doubt Labour are not against turning down donations.

   Sadly money seems more important than morals these days and you can be sold out or compromised for not very much effort.

   • yes

2. ..and this is news because expansionist, ethno-nationalist, racist, Lebensraum-seeking dictatorships don’t usually behave in such a manner?

3. Yes.
   What Mr Trotter didn’t factor in to his take on the matter, is China is not governed by reason. It is a fascist dictatorship intent on looking strong and quelling dissent.
   The plus side for the rest of the world is they have let the cat out of the bag early in terms of how they view the rest of us. Look no further than the postings of Mark to see this in action.
   We can’t say we haven’t been warned.

   • yes

4. Time for a pro-democracy rally in support of Hong Kong.

   • @ DS, Ha, ha, lets ever see if that happens… it seems a long time ago that Russell Norman was in trouble for waving the Tibet flag.

     In my view there was a harassment campaign to get Russell Norman out of parliament in the months before he left. Likewise Cunliffe one of the brighter politicians.

     I was thinking about the excellent speech that Metiria gave in 2016,

     http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/PA1601/S00107/metiria-tureis-state-of-the-nation-speech.htm

     “And we see a New Zealand where our people and our sovereignty are our priority. Not international companies and their profit margins. Not trade deals with countries who execute their citizens. But a green economy built on fairness, pay equity, on the new global opportunities that sit just within our reach. If we are willing to lean forward to take them.”

     We did give Greens our vote, got them into parliament, and not sure giving away water to countries who execute their citizens was part of the deal, nor the massive amount of immigration which over time will remove sovereignty.

     It is all about moderation. NZ is not doing moderate policies anymore, they are doing Rogernomics experimentation with trade deals, with immigration, with tertiary education and it is going badly with skills shortages, wage shortages, environmental degradation and more wealth being privatised.

     I don’t want to always bitch against the Greens, but maybe if they read TDB they can look back at that speech and look at those ideals they used to have! If they gathered it back and not just a few of them, them they would be a much more supported party, like in Metira’s and Russell’s day.

     • The USA executes its citizen NZ and clamors to deal with them and get a trade deal.

       I don’t remember about the US executing its citizens as being a barrier or even consideration when NACT did a secret behind closed doors with US corporate for a TPP.

       A bit of bias present or is there more to it.

       • John W – It’s not really the same though is it? Yes, some US states execute prisoners (although I believe that is trending down), but some of the stuff China does is another level entirely!

         • Not sure what you mean by another level. Please explain. Are there executions of citizens that are acceptable and ones that aren’t. Could we have definition of this please.

           • I’m going to take a wild guess and say that harvesting organs from political prisoners is probably a no go in the USA.

             • If you believe that you also believe in Harry Potter and Santa Klaus.

               Falun Gong has the plausibility of Reverend Moon if not less.

             • Im going to take a wild guess and say that US propaganda wildly flung about without references supplied is more indication of your general animosity to China i. e. your racism

     • This comment stream is really verging on outright racism. I have no problem with your repeated assertions of not dealing with countries that execute their own citizens but note that really China is the only country that gets such an excited treatment. The US also executes its own citizens as does Saudi Arabia and Israel. Yet China is the only country that can have a post on this site that always gets someone excited about them executing their own citizens. The death penalty is a terrible thing for any crime. A Maori Chief visiting Sydney in the early 1800s whose name I think was Te Paia was horrified that the Governor could execute someone for stealing pork but could understand it for stealing an iron tool. The death penalty should not exist and that goes for the US as well. So all the people here that are berating China and demanding an end to trade with them, would they also demand the same for the US? Or would they say oh but thats different?
       And with regard to the protests in Hong Kong dont be so quick to believe everything you read that is fed from the likes of CNN. It shouldnt be news that they lie. For a take from the other side you could try this.

       https://www.moonofalabama.org/2019/07/violent-color-revolution-in-hong-kong-fails-despite-strong-nyt-support.html#more

       A lot of money from the US NED has flowed into Hong Kong and a lot of effort has been made to provoke an over the top response from HK police. However, the general path taken by “colour” revolutions is better understood these days and the attempts to provoke a violent response have been avoided.
       You may not like China or the Chinese but they have suffered a lot at the hands of the Western world which has always tried to break them. They have a long history and great experience in peaceful diplomacy. You can go what about Tibet or the Uighurs but the list of the whatabouts for the West completely dwarfs those for China.

       • What we object to is the Chinese Communist Party using the People’s Liberation Army to slaughter Chinese people, as they did in Tiananmen Square (and many other places in China) in 1989 and are clearly planning to do in Hong Kong thirty years later. Tell me what is racist about expressing that opinion?

         • I think we can all agree that massacres by armies are a terrible thing. But what you state above as the thing ‘we’all agree about is the first time it has been mentioned in this thread. The line of argument previously was execution of citizens. History is another thing. The history of Terrible deeds by armies is long and horrifying and is one of the most urgent matters if we are to progress as a species or end up on the scrap heap of evolution

         • Michael Gibson: “What we object to is the Chinese Communist Party using the People’s Liberation Army to slaughter Chinese people, as they did in Tiananmen Square (and many other places in China) in 1989 and are clearly planning to do in Hong Kong thirty years later.”

           What you claim happened in Tiananmen Square in 1989 is a western propaganda narrative. For pity’s sake, don’t read US or UK reportage uncritically. See this:

           https://off-guardian.org/2019/07/12/30-years-after-tiananmen-square-the-u-s-is-still-trying-to-destabilize-china/

           “A Turkish scholar recently claimed that as many as 12.5 million Muslims have died in wars in the past 25 years, the vast majority a result of American foreign policy. Not to mention the fact that the U.S. still operates a very real concentration camp for Muslims in its naval base on the coast of Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, which President Donald Trump has signed an executive order to keep open indefinitely.

           For seventeen years, GITMO prisoners have been held and tortured without trial in total violation of international law. At the end of the day, “human rights” is a weapon to manipulate credulous liberals into supporting hawkish foreign policy whereby minority groups like China’s Tibetans and Uyghurs become pawns on the geopolitical chess board to undermine Washington’s adversaries.”

           Anent Tiananmen:

           “To this day the story according to the yellow press is that the People’s Liberation Army (PLA) opened fire indiscriminately and massacred “thousands” of “non-violent” demonstrators when it finally cleared the city square after nearly 2 months of student-led protests.

           This was accepted as orthodoxy, even on much of the left, until this version of events was revealed to be contradicted by the U.S.’s own embassy cables published in 2011 by Wikileaks.

           These cables divulged that the U.S. government had knowingly been allowing to the media to recount a fictitious narrative for decades. The confidential telegrams summarized the eyewitness account of Carlos Gallo, a Chilean diplomat, who was present during the June Fourth incident and told a very different story.”

           At the time of the Tiananmen Square protests, we knew someone travelling in China. Their account of what they saw from the balcony (if I remember accurately) of their hotel room overlooking the square differed markedly from what the press was telling us at the time. I can assure you that, had there been any mass shooting, there is no way in the world that they’d have continued to sit there and watch; not with bullets flying about!

           “Tell me what is racist about expressing that opinion?”

           I don’t subscribe to the modern characterisation of racism. It isn’t racist to criticise people of other nationalities and ethnicities, and it’s ridiculous to suggest that it is. The term “racism” is now used just as an epithet to shut people up when they express dissenting views.

           I note on this thread that we have Rosielee uncritically agreeing with comments, while on another thread, the very same person is reminding people about racism etc. Yet many comments here are “racist” as it is now defined.

       • Lol the racism card. Predictable.
         The drones are out in force eh Mark. When are you logging wei on?.
         Don’t make me remind you who had been using the racist, sexist derogatory language.

         • Laugh all you like.

           • Veiled threats now? Are you going to be like Mark and tell us the West is “going to get what’s coming?”
             If your intent is to appear sinister, you are succeeding.

             • No. Just laughing at you laughing. And at your continual fear mongering. Now somehow I’ve become sinister? Hows that work? Are you now a new victim of Chinese violence like the girl in the video?

               • Unlike yourselves crying victim from racism, I am not. Despite being racially abused by Mark on this blog previously.
                 But I am a citizen who believes in personal freedoms including free speech in my country and does not like bullies.

5. The plus side for the rest of the world is they have let the cat out of the bag early in terms of how they view the rest of us.

   ‘Rest of the world’

   you mean a few north western european or north western european derived places? That ain’t the world mate.

   Most world opinion is supportive of China.

   Consider the recent vote on Xinjiang …37 countries praised China’s handling of things, compared to 22 countries that condemned

   So mister —-do only a handful of Western countries, and by no means all, represent the ‘world’?

6. I don’t want to be “that guy”, but I do worry that as the population becomes increasingly Chinese through mass immigration that the nation will become increasingly sympathetic to Chinese government policies. At what point do you immigrate in enough people that they become a significant voting block in their own right, and governments start turning even more of a blind eye to please them?

   It’s not a race thing. I’m just concerned that we are bringing people in faster than they can assimilate into the local culture.

   • All candidates for council or electorate office should be vetted. If they are not bona fide citizens they should be sent packing. Students for polytechs and unis should also be vetted. If they do not abide by our ways while they pursue their studies, they should be sent packing.

   • Oh please with the its not a race thing. What would you call it then. We’ve been importing Brits and Yanks in greater quantities and for longer but I guess its only a problem when The colour is wrong

   • I’m born here and my granddad was here and I sympathise with chinese government policies, by and large, at least in terms of foreign policy.

     Because I am for justice for all peoples, and the biggest correction of injustice in the world today is the rise of a great non-Western power which was brought to its knees by Western imperialism over the course of a century, but threw off the shackles of imperialism to become the only great non-white power of the past 200 years.

     What do you want….for their to be a single dominant Uncle Sam superpower in the world today? The world would be far worse off.

   • How on earth does having a view on Hong kong one way or the other have any fucking thing to do with assimilating into the local culture. That is a political perspective. Not necessarily a cultural one.

     • I guess the issue is, China does not have democracy and not in any process to get one and US is a democracy.

       So although they both have the death penalty there is a more independent process if you are convicted of a crime in the US. In China there are plenty of reports that you can just disappear or being imprisoned for an idea or because someone in power wants it that way.

       That is what scares people about China vs the US.

       And it is not just China that has this issue, the NZ government was desperate to do business with Saudi Arabia even spending millions to a private Saudi individual for a NZ taxpayer funded sheep farm in the desert which of course was a disaster in every corner.

       Not only do Saudi have terrible human rights but they seem to be able to buy their way out of the Jamal Khashoggi which was a recorded murder in an Embassy! China has similar and probably more financial power than Saudi.

       Will Xinjiang start doing the same practises to foreign nationals as the Jamal Khashoggi murder ? What happens if Xinjiang is overthrown or gets more hawkish or we get a more radical approach to foreign policy from a new leader of China.

       The NZ people are rightly concerned about thegrowing lack of sovereignty our government shows, eager like many governments of the world to take the money from wealthy nations in return for favours, giving away assets, signing trade deals that are not in the national interests, even it sounds like you can buy a list MP seat here for a $100k donation.

       The power of money to escape justice and the growing 2 tier justice system and nationals who are working for other countries well being or personal interest, not their own people, is of concern around the world! This is not about race, but about equality.

       • “That is what scares people about China vs the US. ”

         WTF??????? The US has murdered MILLIONS in the past couple of decades around the world. Most people around the world fear the US far more than China.

         Whatever the facts about the Chinese death penalty system, they are not promoting that system in other parts of the world.

         Whereas if you are a small country and you incur the displeasure of Uncle Sam, Uncle Sam will either rain bombs down on you, or try to undermine your government and economy, such as with Venezuela right now, and with Iraq where sanctions killed hundreds of thousands.

         So no saveNZ. Most ‘people’ round the world do not fear China

         https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2018/10/01/international-publics-divided-on-china/

       • Your fear mongering is laughable. Chinese invasions now. And your version of whats fair with regard to the death penalty in the US just highlights your whiteness. Try being poor and black in the US and see how fair it is. The death penalty for you is ok if you can use money to buy your way out or if your skin colour is light enough? Or police shootings are ok so long as they are predominately black or hispanic. And supporting the Saudis in a murderous war in Yemen all fine and dandy. Yet you fear monger about a Chinese invasion that is never going to happen. Far more likely to be invaded by the US if we chose the wrong sort of leader as in Venezuela a country with elections described by ex president Jimmy Carter as amongst the fairest in the world. But you are all good with this becauseits happening to all the sorts of people that you have no regard for even though they are people. Rather you would rant about impending doom from a superpower that has no intention of invading anywhere and has demonstrated this on numerous occasions and you sre able to turn a blind eye to the most obvious expansionist superpower that believes that it is entitled to all the worlds resources and requires that all populations living near or on these resources be destroyed or put into such chaos that no civil society is possible and hence no claim on the coveted resources possible. And you are so tied to this view that you can accept a video clearly showing a light touch in a quite passionate verbal exchange as evidence of the extreme violence of their country. All inall its quite pathetic

7. I just watched the Video in question up to the point of contact and if you dont think she took a dive then you really shouldnt be reffing anything. The guy reaches out and makes light contact with the back of his hand and she buckles and goes down. That would be her “friend” on the camera I spose. There is no way there will be any charges following because in the context of the animated conversation that it was reaching out with the back of your hand is pretty gentle contact. Certainly not enough to get so excited except for all that latent hostility towards Chinese

   • Thanks Spikeyboy. 100% correct. If that fall was caused by the actions of the guy’s light contact, then we are living in an alternative universe with alternative laws of mechanics, or ol’ Mr Newton sure missed something

     That was a very very very bad hollywood, and then she is on the ground thrashing her legs about calling security -C grade actress, and everyone here including the headliner is hollering ‘violence’ —-for heavens sake!

8. Just read the statement.
   http://www.chinaconsulate.org.nz/chn/xwdt/t1684931.htm

   Its as innocuous as any statement that a consulate would put out.

   Of course the consulate of any country presents the point of view of the government of that country. What’s wrong with that.

   And what’s wrong with praising students for standing up for the smearing of their homeland. If New Zealand was smeared overseas, I expect New Zealanders would likewise stand up for New Zealand.

   And nowhere does it ‘praise violence’. It does not mention violence. Because there was no fucken violence. Indeed it specifically enjoins Chinese and Hong Kong students (remember both mainland Chinese and Hong Kong people carry PRC passports albeit of a different sort, but nevertheless PRC passports) to respect the laws of New Zealand and the rules/regulations of the university when expressing themselves.

   The Chinese are of course sensitive to their country being torn asunder. They have very recent historical memory of the century of humiliation when their country was carved into spheres of influence of the Western powers and Japan, and there was endless conflict and invasion and civil war. They know that instability could well lead to the same again, or something like the Syrian civil war. People who have lived comfortably in countries that benefited off the spoils of imperialism will have little understanding of the way people in oppressed or recently oppressed countries think.

   • I can’t read it. It’s in Chinese

     • Ernie: “I can’t read it. It’s in Chinese”

       Just run it through Google translate. My Chinese is distinctly rusty, so that’s what I did. Easy enough. Reading it now.

   • Yes me neither. Anyone have an English translation?

     • Veiled threats now? Are you going to be like Mark and tell us the West is “going to get what’s coming?”
       If your intent is to appear sinister, you are succeeding.

       • “Veiled threats?”

         Where?

         • You keep slipping up and using the wrong log in.

     • Apologies for the double up, the above reply is replicated from further up.
       But I am giving extra irony points for you asking for translation, the same “sin” that got the Hong Kong protestor shoved.

9. “If there was any question over whether or not China is supporting tensions on Auckland University, the Chinese consulate has bewilderingly praised the recent violence by pro-China students on Auckland University…”

   It has done no such thing. I suggest that you read the press release. If your Chinese language skills aren’t up to it, try Google translate, and read it in English.

10. Actually here is the English translation from the consulate:
    http://www.chinaconsulate.org.nz/eng/zlgxw/t1685206.htm

    In the English version it says:
    “It is hoped that Chinese students will express their opinions and views lawfully”

    The Chinese version is more emphatic and mentions the university rules as well :
    ….希望同学们在遵守新西兰法律和大学法规的基础上表….
    “hopes that the students will base their expressions on a foundation of respect for the laws of New Zealand and the regulations of the University …”

    Obviously the consulate is not egging on violence and says that it will act to protect the rights of both mainland chinese AND Hong Kong students (most Hong Kong people carry PRC passports, a special version of one at least, and come under PRC consulate protection)

    • Thanks Mark. Just the usual beatup by our own versions of the mainstream media then. Quite how this all became China condones violence I’m not sure. Same for how this will become a bigger issue than Ihumatao. Storm in a very small teacup.

11. Actually,in China , the whole west world are generally portrayed as developed, people with good manners and fairness thinking ability.

    Those students are eager to go outside to embrace such beautiful future and finally the facts are facts.

    That is why most of them suddenly become more patriotic than in China.

    They start knowing something:

    It is freedom but not for u,
    It is democracy but not for u,

    When they say something different, they are brain washed

    When western people say something,that is critical thinking

    When China government arrest terrorist, that is oppressing.

    When western bombing other countries, that is liberation.

    And so many so-called China experts even can not understand Chinese language at primary school level!

    Of cause, they don’t need that, they have freedom to write!

    The fact? Who cares!

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