Meet ‘Carol’ from WINZ
Every year, the annual humiliation and revelation of the horror that is WINZ is put on display when AAAP run welfare advocacy programs outside Manurewa’s Work and Income office.
Beneficiaries were queuing at 2am in the freezing rain in the hope to see an advocate. So horrific is the way that WINZ treat people, that they are willing to queue from 2am in the desperate hope of meeting with someone who can actually let them know what their rights are.
TDB has been at the forefront of demonising these neoliberal welfare organisations because it is only when you demonise, humiliate and savage the corrupt public service that anything changes.
We’ve seen the State use false meth hysteria to punish thousands of state tenants. We’ve seen the State steal babies from mothers. We’ve seen the State hand out biased justice.
The manner in which MSD and WINZ spy on and mistreat the most vulnerable washing up on their doorsteps however manage to eclipse all those departments.
We have a toxic culture in WINZ and MSD that is so bad people are willing to stand in the freezing rain from 2am to get help. Just let that sink in.
The truth is that Government has been hopeless at managing the neoliberal welfare agencies to be anything other than a stick, and have come far too late to the game in their first term to remedy these corruptions of social policy. The only hope to force real change is to fund groups like AAAP to be advocacy agents for beneficiaries (effectively unionise the beneficiaries) and also fund AAAP to prepare annual reports that are critical of WINZ.
That way you help those desperately attempting to navigate the purposefully complex paperwork WINZ demands while also publicly humiliating WINZ in the eyes of Jacinda ‘Politics of Kindness’ Ardern.
Only public humiliation and demonisation of these toxic public services will force kindness.
Its not that easy to get rid of all the unsuitable staff in many of our government departments
Labour hasnt been the people’s party for decades. It seems when Labour are in they give us pretty slogans but the working man never seems to be able to claw back what they lost from the right wing. Alot of the problem seems to come from the donations to political parties. When the rich and corporations get to donate to both sides you get no change.
Think Im pretty much done voting, whats the point?
Think about state funding for electioneering Mark. It would save a lot of money for practical outcomes and limit the BS. The USA volume of expenditure is mind-boggling. So there are lots more people there, but mass broadcasting of tv, radio, internet reaches everyone who wants to know. Don’t give up voting – it intrigues parties to think you are out there, a warm body they might count on, but showing willing even if you lose shows you to be staunch. And that is needed today.
I think there is hope a political movement will change things in the future. The new generation may have empathy than there forebears who introduced the neo liberal principles that dominate the political establishment.
As with everything pendulums swing. I think we will see a swing back towards more inclusive society not the did eat dog we currently have.
The neo liberal system was planned many years before it was implemented in the early 80’s so it will take a new model what ever it is to take shape. I guess small political movements today could be the large ones in the future.
Thankyou for all your consistent efforts to expose this total disaster of what we have permitted nz to become. Despite the families package that government has relied on things have taken a sharp turn for the worse this year. The weag report was buried. What should be done? At this late stage an emergency rescue package will s required.
Not sure about donations but right about ‘pretty slogans’. You’re exactly the person who should keep on voting. Only time a party I voted for was in Govt is now (Greens) and 99 to 02 (Alliance) (though I suppose the Greens were in some arrangement with Labour in the 00s). In my heart I despise Labour to the core of their middle class careerist souls (as opposed to my middle class slacker soul). But as Chris Trotter says politics is the art of the possible — he even talks nice about ridiculous NZ First — and I think he’s right to a certain extent. He like us though wants the reality we believe in to come to political fruition. Old fashioned idealistic Labour did the business and then went out of power for 9 years. Is that failure?
You know what happens when you stop voting? The arseholes win by default. They don’t suddenly start clutching their pearls and shrieking, “Good Lord! All the Lefties have stopped voting! We can’t have a fair and equitable election unless every citizen is given the opportunity to be heard!” No, like Montgomery Burns, they steeple their fingers in malevolent glee and chortle, “Excellent! Victory is all but assured!” Right-wingers almost always vote. Apathy never favours the Left or progressive political parties. If you tap out now, you’re dooming the country to another John Key, and I think we’ve all had more than enough of that grasping vulture and his ilk.
How about a reset back to the social welfare act 1964, the secrecy surrounding the current laws is a national disgrace, the outcomes are obvious to all, first they take your dignity, then they take yer home, finally they come for your children.
Then you are farmed out to a corporation to live in a old folks home where they asset strip you and give you a pitiful 25 bucks a week to “live on”, no wonder they are taking everyone’s guns ah?
Viva the revolution, there is no longer any other option.
And that is what happens people like you don’t vote because you feel aggrieved many others feel disenfranchised . In the last 9 yrs i saw begging and homelessness i have never seen here before, why? the last government cut social policy funding they promised us a brighter future they sold assets they knocked down state housing with the intention of privatising and dumb Nz ers still continued to vote for them.
there are various ways to handle this…but the problem is there is near zero real world understanding of WINZ/MSD by MPs, Sue Bradford was a lone voice for too long in Parliament, such as when Helen Clark bought in the “jobs jolt”, continuing the demonisation of the vulnerable from the Bolger Shipley years
AAAP simply force case managers to obey the Act and inform people of their entitlements–do the departments actual job in other words. Jacinda needs to spend a day out and about with AAAP.
Carmel Sepuloni should know something about it from a personal perspective, but may well be intimidated both by department heads and what happened to Meteria Turei
Really all the top management of WINZ/MSD need to be sacked, even via the old subterfuge of “reapplying for your own job” if necessary to avoid huge bludging payouts. If the neo lib leaders go, there may be a slim chance of getting all the PSA members–yes, union members are among those carrying out the war on the poor–to adopt a new culture, but don’t bet on that!
No, the best answer if the Govt. is reelected would be to disestablish WINZ/MSD entirely, and institute a new guaranteed minimum income for all citizens, and a brand new “Social Security” act.
Was 84 the changeover in attitudes at the social welfare dept ? Muldoon was better? I do remember how so workhouse their attitudes were, new values or old. And if this gummint was serious (I think we’ve established the facts about that, sadly, though I pretty much always knew) they’d change the culture to one of being there for humans just like us.
So fucken awful, optimal NZer though Jacinda might be. Preferred and voted for her predecessor, though never in my life, I’m proud to say, have I voted for the Labour of Douglas.
A lot of comment on TDB amounts to moaning and bitching–which is at least an indication that not everyone has left their brain at the door–but what about a regular “suggestion” feature on ways out of the Neo Lib blind canyon?
There is a lot of combined experience here that should be utilised. One thing I really liked about the Internet Party was the online policy development.
Totally Guys,we all need to collaborate here.
I myself have a situation going,i have some real time Case Studies to share with TDB.
The outcome can be altered with more positive public engagement…
It was a great pity the Internet/Mana Party was sunk by insularity and tribal cartel Labour and the so-called Left
…wasted votes and lost them the Election to Jonkey Nact (unforgivable)
….as well we lost a truly innovative and pro working class pro Maori flaxroots party with brains
…wish it could be reinstated
Gareth Morgan said ‘if we establish a UBI, WINZ workers and the like can ALL be cleared out and then they can go do something meaningful with their lives’.
Hard to argue he wasn’t on the right track.
On UBI – if not done thoughtfully and kindly and appropriately, it will be just an efficiency move leaving vast numbers of people on a targeted minimum benefit that doesn’t meet their needs, increases poverty, and which reduces the up-front social welfare bill through having a simplified system with less personal concern.
The complacent and self-centred c-off (comfortably off) will beam at the costs of administering social welfare at present appear to go down and ignore how the background costs go up, the health, disease, the sadness, the criminality, the unsatisfactory untidiness of beggars, not the incredible lightness of being that UBI supporters proclaim will automatically happen.
It would be a good thing for everybody having the right to a benefit of sorts that would pay for basic living costs or be given ‘in kind’ like a hostel with basic food for those between jobs etc. But the emphasis must be on enabling people to work at something, government has been a principal player in bringing in the export-import regime that has cancelled out so many small jobs producing to the local market. So now encourage people to live the life of a skilled worker at manual or tech jobs even if they are at the precariat level, and when unemployed be able to go to free classes, learn new skills, do art work, help in conservation etc. , and keep fit so they can get seasonal employment – be able to maintain themselves in a fit state to work when it is available. People need to find stimulating work, be with others, and get to where they can live simply with enough money to travel to see family, take part in gatherings, fairs, concerts, that build community and enjoyment of life.
That would be the role for UBI, it would guarantee to lift people out of poverty to a simple lifestyle but never abandonment which we are seeing now.
UBI doesn’t work.
If it is truly universal then it is either insufficient or unaffordable. If it isn’t universal, then how exactly does it differ to the current system?
The answer is in rhetoric only.
With the UBI it isn’t just about replacing welfare. There would have to be a fundamental loss of trust in the system. youd have to scrape a whole bunch of taxes and make new ones. Business would rail against it. Until they can’t rail no more that is. It took us 200 years after Rome before fudalism was a thing. The traditional defensive stocks Y’know bonds and home brand co panties like banks and that have given way to the new tech billionaires, and perhaps they may give way to future tech trillionaires in the AI space. Then we may well get a UBI.
So how is Cindy any better than John Key?
She spouts hugs, cuddles and platitudes by the tonne but when it comes to actual results things have gotten worse not better.
Sycophants here who still protect Labour really steam my clams.
They are in politics for the trough just like the rest of them.
David Lange may have been in charge of introducing neoliberalism (and I personally think some of it was needed), but at least he recognized and tried to mitigate some of its ill effects.
Little difference really, they complained bitterly when in opposition about many thanks, beneficiary payments back in the nineties during the ruthless ruth regime, more recently the big subsidies for the american film industry.
But when in power they did not reserve the things they complained about but tinkered around the edges.
If Ardern went to WINZ with AAAP things would be different because all the staff would get a little lecture beforehand. One of the things that should happen is that some actual cases from AAAP’s dealings should be documented and given to the media.
One of the problems with reporting to government about deficiencies in a program that an agency is working with, is that can be regarded as advocacy. Advocacy is not allowed from agencies funded by government, as their job is to deal with the clients only! They are told that they are not funded so as to complain to government, to point out deficiencies, to advise how money could be spent on something more effective using different methods and perspectives etc.
I think Helen Clark’s government brought that little one in. All in the interest of maximum bang for the buck as measured by strict targets. There then is no room for change from the relentless move back into the charity style used in 1900s and on, looking at whether people are deserving or not; are they obeying the rigid moral precepts of ‘decent people’ etc. The punishments for women trying to manage on low money, and poor prospects, and demands for this and that which are so hard to meet are exemplified by the close scrutiny of their every move and whether they are in a relationship with a man ‘in the nature of marriage’. When a woman offers a man a meal, it is probably an indication of friendship, if he mows her lawn in return, they are possibly as good as married. How can anyone get help when there are these vicious harpies and callous men from MPs and advisors down to the ‘civil’ servants dishing out charity?
The attitude should be to act as Life Coach for beneficiary mothers and fathers to help them manage, and do their best for their children, and have at least a part-time job that will train them in community skills, and possibly pay them a little, without adjusting their benefit. The social worker would become a Life Coach trying to empower the woman or man.
They would ask ‘What are your immediate problems and how can we help with those? And when those are dealt with what can you do to improve things for yourself and children, let’s make a realistic plan of things that will be coming up soon. What dates will you need to have these done by, are these all the demands you need to meet, number these from 1 on as to importance for you and family. Now what can you do from your own resources, and what extra help and resources are needed for a simple fix so you can work your way along the list?’
That’s all positive stuff and shows expectation that the person will be self-managing, but that the government is willing to aid and coach and educate. Going to classes with others and learning skills and gaining confidence and pride in oneself, being treated respectfully encourages self-respect and that will make all the difference. Not this shitty derision from ‘naice’ people who have their mainstream life all organised in a way that is approved by all who count. Enough of that, nurture the strugglers and most will blossom.
But SockWelfare don’t care about people, their job is to hand out charity and they are encouraged to be sparing – no-one is going to find a straight pathway out of the precariat under the present ‘flexible’ low paid, regime. Welfare have been taught that beneficiaries have become helpless and lazy, and need a shock to get them working – at anything but looking after their children and supporting them. Then they get blamed if they fail; the circle of the vicious.
In the Press today Sepuloni says 98% of special needs grants are granted. However AAAP says they can be turned away at reception and they say that the amount they get is less without AAAP there.
Sepuloni hasn’t got a clue what goes on in her department because it’s the same officials spinning her the shit about how wonderful MSD is who worked for Bennett et al during the last lot’s time. The there was another 9 years before that when things were just as bad.
What Sepuloni doesn’t know is that people who’re refused help don’t have their applications recorded. Receptionists tell people not to bother applying. MSD staff on the 0800 number do the same thing. And then if someone does get lucky and manages to get past the receptionist, and talks to a person who can issue the help, application forms aren’t ever filled in until a decision is made to grant the assistance, whether it’s a food grant or whatever. “98% of applications are granted” is absolutely meaningless when applications are only processed if it’s likely the benefit will be granted.
But the Wage Slave Labour Party is left-wing, Martyn… when are you going to join the Aotearoa Liberation Army?
First they should end the need to repay emergency grants out of the benefit.
The recent research published on whether plants have feelings should have been done on NZ social workers. No I misspoke, the research should have been done on WINZ staff (most of them aren’t qualified to practice social work). Do these people feel pain? Can they think, reason, communicate? Heck are they even conscious? Conclusion: see the plant study. At least some plants look appealing and have taste, Carol.
I went on a DPB in 1983 just before the Labour Party got into power. I was made to give an affidavit so the Government could sue my ex partner in the UK for child support which as there was no treaty was absolutely unenforceable. The decision to do this was made by a 17 year old who was pissed by the fact I was getting more money than her. People doleing out public money have always behaved badly, many because they resent people “getting THEIR money”. It doesn’t matter what people are on the top you need a culture and thought change at the bottom.
“We have a toxic culture in WINZ and MSD that is so bad people are willing to stand in the freezing rain from 2am to get help. Just let that sink in ”
This culture Bomber pervades every facet of our country , economy and the way as people we view the poorest among us.
I have had the misfortune of having to survive on a job seekers benefit since May after a work place accident prevented me continuing in that occupation once my injury had healed and i was no longer entitled to ACC.
I get $238.00 per week to survive on until i can find suitable employment and the job has too pay me enough to live…just.
It works out the nice lady at WINZ told me at about $4.00 an hour just too put it in perspective.
After the must pay costs are taken out i have $48 for food and petrol but not both.
I have always worked and it is bad luck that i find myself where i am now and despite trying to exist i am grateful the welfare net was there when i had no other option.
Now i am a recipient of the welfare system i appreciate more than ever how harsh living is on a severely fixed income and how close you are too danger if things deteriorate further.
Luckily i have not had too stand out in the rain at 2am or any other time too get into an appointment.
You do however have a long wait too see anybody and you just can’t just pop in and expect to bee seen.
The system is harsh and if anything is too change it will be a long time coming as it is changing the culture of the department and those who oversee it will be the toughest part.
Just looking around at the people like me who need government money to live it is sobering as you see first hand the deprivation that exists in our society and the effect first hand on kiwi economic refugee’s and the plight of poverty in our society.
This is the underground world of the apocalypse that is Neo liberalisim.
Trade me has come in useful where you have to ” give ” your stuff away but the extra money is a god send and makes you realise that you probably didn’t need the stuff anyway.
I am grateful i am on my own and no longer supporting my children as they have grown up and left as denying them things would have been unbearable because of the lack of income.
AAAP is doing a wonderful job in advocating for working poor and the destitute and Adern and her ministers should get out a bit more and see the ravages of the Free Market on their own people and better still allow public television too air a documentary possibly by Bryan Bruce on the real neo liberal nightmare and the impact of the last 34 years since the rich mans revolution in Aotearoa.
New Zealanders need too see what is really happening.
New Zealanders’ sympathy for others is only matched by their suspicion of others.
Hence … everything.
+100 Great post MOSA
This would be a response to the practice of using the advocates to assist in the administrative process, because staff resources cannot cope with the increase in demand due to greater willingness to make the grants.
Which is a positive, but indicates a need to formalise (pay for) the advocacy role.
But it is also suggestive of continuing economic hardship despite the
Power Income Supplement and the 2018 WFF increases. Probably housing costs and related financial indebtedness – including inability to access affordable credit.
“…while also publicly humiliating WINZ in the eyes of Jacinda ‘Politics of Kindness’ Ardern.”
Yes, keep doing that, just as we should regardless of who the government is. But don’t expect anything special because it’s a Labour government. Labour governments have continued to show their hatred of the poor since before Clark’s reign of terror over beneficiaries between 1999 and 2008, at least from when they flip-flopped on their promise to reverse the 1991 benefit cuts, probably even before then. With a track record like that, together with not a jot of evidence anything’s going to change soon, the future looks grim for those on the lowest incomes.
Has not this govt increased the minimum wage? increased the wages of teachers? made people think that they might just maybe get a pay rise?
do these people really have to queue? can’t there be some organising for appointments so the queues don’t have to happen?
these people definitely aren’t getting enough to live on with dignity but how many are getting up and organising to improve their lot?
worker/non worker, if you want to improve your lot you need to organise.
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