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lslamophobia: From Hollywood to Christchurch with hate

By   /  March 29, 2019  /  118 Comments

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The media has had a lot to do with shaping negative attitudes towards Muslims. A recent University of Alabama study found terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists receive 357 percent more media coverage than attacks committed by non-Muslims.

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Our Prime Minister, Jacinda Arden’s much revered speech to the Parliament following the Christchurch terrorist attack excluded the word Islamophobia.

Even Golriz Ghahraman, in her otherwise brilliant speech at the Aotea Sqaure rally in Auckland said:  “Let’s face it, they don’t really care if we are Muslims or not, this is about race” (note this part of Golriz’s speech does not appear in the written copy of her speech available on The Spinoff site). 

I admire Golriz greatly but on this issue we disagree. I think “they” do care very much about whether or not we are Muslims.

Remember what Trump said: ” Donald J. Trump is calling for a total and complete shutdown of Muslims entering the United States”.

He couldn’t be more specific. It was Muslims he was targeting for political expediency because he knew it was Muslims who were feared most- despite reports by the Anti Defamation League (ADL) that shows three quarters of terrorist deaths in the US over the past decade were carried out by far-right domestic white nationalists and only a quarter by Muslims.  

So where does this idea of a “Muslim threat” comes from?

The media has had a lot to do with shaping negative attitudes towards Muslims. A recent University of Alabama study found terrorist attacks by Muslim extremists receive 357 percent more media coverage than attacks committed by non-Muslims.

Similarly, in France and Germany, it is not just immigration, but Muslim immigration in particular, that is a top political issue because Muslims are falsely regarded as a distinctive group, more prone to acts of terrorism.

study in the UK, the biggest of its kind, found quarter of British children aged between 10 and 16 believe Islam encourages terrorism.

In the same survey, 37% of British respondents said they would support policies to reduce the number of Muslims in the country.

These Anti-Muslim attitudes don’t form by themselves. Deep-seated prejudices against Muslims have a long history and are closely linked to misrepresentation and demonization of Muslims in both Western literature and Hollywood movies. 

Dr. Jack Shaheen, studied the misrepresentation of Arabs in films for thirty years.

Of the 950 films viewed and analysed by Shaheen, only 5% showed Muslims in a positive or neutral light- the other 95% vilified and demonized them. No other group of people, Shaheen reported, has ever been vilified so persistently for so long in that many films. 

This negative stereotypical portrayal of Muslims has helped shape a prejudicial view of Muslims which perceives them to be a threat to Western values.

The Christchurch attacker’s mind was clearly saturated with Islamophobic fear of Muslims.

I have refused to look at the attacker’s manifesto but had a long discussion with someone who had read it.

She hesitantly expressed her fear that the fertile Muslims coming to New Zealand will eventually take over the country.

The Muslim, “takeover” fears have their origin in Europe where the term “Muslim invasion” has been manufactured to stoke fears of Muslims and where the Muslim demographic has been held up as a central concern of most far-right movements.

The fact is that Europeans greatly overestimate the share of Muslims in the total population. In France, where the Christchurch attacker reportedly found his inspiration, the actual Muslim population is only 6%, while a survey showed the French assumed it to be at 31%.  

Pew Research Centre reports “Muslims to be a relatively small minority in Europe, making up roughly 5% of the population”. Muslim invasion? Hardly.

Also, the whole idea of Muslim community, especially in a European context, is a fantasy. There is no such a thing as one Muslim community. Muslims are immensely divided in their ethnicity and practice of their faith. Muslims come from different countries, reside in different places, speak different languages, have a different, sometimes non-existent, relationship with their faith and hold vastly different cultural values.  

It is therefore incorrect to encage the Muslim immigrants in a homogenous Muslim Community, supposedly closed and fixed forever.

Why are we not talking about Turkish, Afghani, Somali and Iranian immigrants, for instance, instead of melting everyone together as Muslim immigrants?

Speaking constantly of Muslim community overlooks the clear diversity among Muslims and also the fact that, like me, many Muslims identify with Islamic traditions and culture but are not defined by it.

The Christchurch attacker’s mind was clearly saturated with Islamophobic propaganda and hate. He saw all Muslims as homogenous machines subordinate to Islam and preprogrammed to be violent enemies of the West.

It is this deeply bigoted view and the industry that funds and peddles it that we need to address.  

Our media outlets and political leaders can help. We saw in Christchurch how quickly, in a matter of days in fact, hearts and minds can change.   

We now need to ensure that our resolve to stamp out Islamophobia and other forms of hate remains as strong and as spectacular as our loving response to the Christchurch Mosque Attack.

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About the author

Donna Miles

Donna Miles is a British-born, Iranian-bred, New Zealand citizen with a strong interest in human rights, justice and equality issues.

118 Comments

  1. Sam Sam says:

    I don’t think we can control people who specialise in slander and hate. We can’t just wave our fingers at it and make facial features we have to look at it (white supremacy) and respond to it but we can not take them seriously to the point we talk about Tarrant. Apart from the problems of islamophobia in Syria and the murders, separate from that is islamophobia in New Zealand and the effects that is having on censorship and security that’s apart of the global war on terror and there’s been one device to deal with it and it’s lie. Don’t find out what’s going on just lie, and New Zealand isn’t keeping 100% to that script. Every single time we dose the war on terror with lies it expands. Bush era WMDs lies and expansion. Russia did it lies and expansion. Syrian chemical attacks lies and expansion. Can we learn some thing from that and say okay, every time we censor and increase security and lie about it we expand the war on terror. We do hear from our own security experts that say we should handle this rationally and have a Royal Commission so long as we are concerned with the security of the people.

  2. G.A.P. says:

    Probably the best description of media instigated Islamophobia i have read to date. As with many things the facts just destroy the commonly accepted narrative. Hey but who is interested in facts? “secret sources anyone” We should not forget that our own repeaters have played a large part in spreading this false impression, (direct links to cnn msnbc etc.) Let us also not forget that our armed forces are still involved in the BS american war on terror, invading whatever country (more often than not Islamic) happens to suit at the time.

    • Jason says:

      G.A.P. The “facts” clearly show that this article by Donna Miles is wrong and very misleading.

      • spikeyboy says:

        Thats very ironic Jason. Donna gives a whole list of examples of Islamophobia with figures and commentary checkable and verfiable and you just go thats not right? You dont even realise you are part of the apathy at best and collusion and encouragement that allows Islamophobia to flourish.
        To Donnas list we could add:

        “In 2017, the New Zealand media featured 14,349 stories that included the word Islam – nearly 13,000 of those stories mentioned either terrorism or Islamic Jihad.”

        “Newstalk ZB’s Mike Hosking holding up a tee-shirt with the Okay symbol that is popular with white supremacists had been removed”

        “an article by fellow ZB host Chris Lynch that asked “Does Islam have any place in public swimming pools?” had also been removed.”

        “Winston Peters is a repeat offender. Peters is quoted as saying: “They say – ah yes – but New Zealand has always been a nation of immigrants. They miss a crucial point. New Zealand has never been a nation of Islamic immigrants…” .

        “In 2002 Richard Prebble – then the leader of the ACT Party – warned of the dangers of people from desert cultures and advocated taking in white farmers from Southern Africa instead – who he described as real refugees.”

        Don Brash advocates “bringing Muslim immigration to a virtual halt because, he claimed, Islam was a culture that “for the past 500 years or so failed its adherents as its inward-looking theocracy has resulted in it falling further and further behind the West”.”

        https://asiapacificreport.nz/2019/03/29/misconstrued-hatred-gives-way-to-muslim-voices-finally-being-heard/

        So Jason you have to be a bit ignorant to not think that Islamophobia has been entrenched in NZ for a number of years. Ignoring it amounts to encouragement and allows the sentiment to be taken to the highest levels of our government

        • Jason says:

          spikeyboy, A phobia is an irrational fear. There is nothing irrational about fearing Islam. When you look at its 1,400 years history and current events, it’s perfectly rational to fear it. Islamists love the word Islamophobia and the people that use it. You are their cover. Therefore I do not recognise the word.

          • Whether you agree with the term is irrelevant, Jason. The term exists and for good reason.

            Islamophobia, especially when couched in polite terms, is the first step toward hate speech and then to violence. There have been too many examples from far right terrorists to ignore that reality.

      • spikeyboy says:

        Just to be very clear Jason about how very wrong you are when you try to make out below that somehow the ledger of deaths suffered by Muslims Is somehow disproportionate to those inflicted, I mentioned Iraq. But even there we can narrow the field and look closely just at one spot, Falujah. The horror and cruel barbarity that was inflicted there by the US military and then glorified in American Sniper is so great as to make all claims of they are worse then us pale and vanish. It is without doubt that Western military agression is a terror far more devastating than anything that has come from the East. This was done to Iraqi’s without even being implicated in 9/11 on known false information by leaders who knew it to be false. So why dont you count Falujah. Its because the numbers get too high even just with Falujah let alone the rest of Iraq, Libya, Syria, Yemen…

        “During the November siege of Fallujah later that same year, which I also covered first-hand, more than 5,000 Iraqi civilians were killed. Most were buried in mass graves in the aftermath of the siege.

        Mosques were deliberately targeted by the US military, hospitals bombed, medical workers detained, ambulances shot at, cease-fires violated, media repressed, and the use of depleted uranium was widespread. All of these are, again, war crimes.

        At that time I broke the story of the US military’s use of white phosphorous, an incendiary weapon similar to napalm in its ability to burn all the way down to the bone. The use of white phosphorus was a violation of international law, given that it was unleashed in the city during a time when the Pentagon itself admitted to at least 50,000 civilians still being present.

        More than 200,000 civilians were displaced from their homes during the November siege, and over 75 percent of the city was destroyed.

        The horrific legacy of depleted uranium contamination continues, with stillbirths and birth defects still occurring at astronomical rates, creating a situation so extreme that some Iraqi doctors are calling it a genocide.”

        Thats from Dahr Jamail one of a very few unembedded reporters in Iraq. The man in charge of these war crimes then became the US secretary of defense. He said he enjoyed “fighting in Afghanistan because “it’s fun to shoot some people. You know, it’s a hell of a hoot,”” and “Be polite, be professional, but have a plan to kill everybody you meet.” Of course, this man is James Matis. And you Jason have a problem with Muslims because in your sick head, not in reality but in your sick head, think that Muslims have a plan to take over the world whereas all the evidence shows overwhelmingly that if anyone has a plan to take over the world, the real world mind you, not the fantasy in your sick head then it can only be the US military.
        Then “In November 2005 US marines in Iraq committed a massacre of 24 unarmed Iraqi civilians. The slaughtering of unarmed men, women, children and elderly people, shot multiple times at close range, was retribution for a roadside bomb attack on a convoy of marines. The war crimes were extremely well documented and the atrocity garnered international attention.
        When it came time to bring the marines responsible for the massacre to justice, Mattis was the convening authority over the eight charged with crimes at Haditha.” Of couse Mattis aquitted all involved
        So Jason you may believe your own bullshit but I certainly dont

        https://truthout.org/articles/james-mattis-is-a-war-criminal-i-experienced-his-attack-on-fallujah-firsthand/

        If you still doubt the viciousness and cruelty of elements in the US military you could always view the video of the chopper crew shooting up a group of reporters and then the man and his small daughter that came to help leaked by Chelsea Manning to Wikileaks. Give me a world where Muslim communities are dominant any day.

  3. e-clectic says:

    Brzezinski fired up the Mujaheddin to give the Russians their Vietnam in Afghanistan. It was successful.
    With the subsequent Russian collapse a decade later and the shift of balance to a uni-polar world of US ascendancy there was no enemy to justify the excesses of the military industrial complex.
    Presto! What strikes fear into the heart of White Anglo-Saxon Protestants more than the threat of those religious zealots and “the clash of civilisations”?
    Some of the parts of the Koran aren’t that helpful in disabusing the generated fear but most Muslims are moderates. So, prime the activation of the extremist Wahhabists to ratchet up the fear a notch or two and the phobia germinates.
    It’s a beautiful construction. You can imagine the diagrams and PowerPoint presentations in the rooms there geopolitics and strategy are divined. Schisms exploited here, events plotted there.
    Divide and conquer, plus ce change.

    • spikeyboy says:

      Neither are some parts of the bible. In particular the end time prophecies and the rush now for fundamentalist Christians to bring about those conditions. I guess they arent too pleased by the length of time its taking god to reveal itself and want to hurry things along a bit with a good old fire and brimstone apocalypse. I mean its in the bible so must be true

  4. G.A.P. says:

    Originally mailed at 11am???

    Thank you Donna. Probably the best description of media instigated Islamophobia i have read to date. As with many things the facts just destroy the commonly accepted narrative. Hey but who is interested in facts? “secret sources anyone” We should not forget that our own repeaters have played a large part in spreading this false impression, (direct links to cnn msnbc etc.) Let us also not forget that our armed forces are still involved in the BS american war on terror, invading whatever country (more often than not Islamic) happens to suit at the time.

  5. Ngungukai says:

    Never believed 9/11 was a Controlled Demolition until I began researching it myself 3 years ago, and Wesley Clark’s comments top the Story off ?

  6. Jon Christenson says:

    The writer understates the Muslim population of Europe. See https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2017/11/29/5-facts-about-the-muslim-population-in-europe/
    France is currently 8.8% not 6%. The Europeans worry about respective breeding rates which would see Muslims double in the next 20 years. A rather significant demographic shift which not everyone is comfortable with.

    • spikeyboy says:

      Poor old Jon… His daughter might choosee to marry a Muslim boy. All I can say is hooray to that! What courage!

      • Marc says:

        If you were a true leftie you would reject religion, full stop, and believe in socialism or communism. But the ‘left’ has decided to go with minorities, their last hope to get votes, so they defend Islam while Muslims are very intolerant towards homosexuality, same sex marriage and the likes.

        How the hell can you reconcile such views between your voting base, that is still to be explained to me.

        • Marc, I think you’ll find intolerance is not the sole preserve of muslims. Re-read your comments to find out what I’m getting at.

        • spikeyboy says:

          Oh dear Marc. You are a very angry man. Im not an accountant and dont generally try to tally votes. Mostly, I’m “against dickeads such as yourself. What was that ridiculus list of rants you put up on open mike yesterday? I could almost see you frothing at the mouth.

  7. Jason says:

    Donna, the US seems to have more than its fair share of white supremacists but let’s check the proportionality of your case. Muslims comprise only 1.1% of the US population yet 25% of the deaths caused by terrorism in the last 10 years. They are grossly over-represented. Whites are 76.9% of the population and have caused 75% of the deaths by terrorism so are proportional to the population. If we go back to 9/11 then the figures are massively skewered towards Muslim terrorists because nearly 3,000 people were killed on that terrible day. In the UK, 86% of those in prison for terrorism charges are Muslims despite being only being 5% of the population. That is a massive over representation. Only 9% were right wing extremists including from the recently banned National Action group. The remaining 5% were classified as “other ideologies”. Included in the 86% Muslim group are the Liquid Bomb Plot British Muslim terrorists of Pakistani descent. Had they not been stopped, an estimated 10,000 people would have been killed. You get that when 18-22 planes are suicide bombed over Canadian and American cities.
    https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2018/mar/08/uk-terror-related-arrests-rose-almost-60-to-record-high-in-2017

    Britain isn’t alone in the above massive over-representation of Muslim terrorism; it’s the same in European countries. This is where the idea of a “Muslim threat” comes from and why Muslims are regarded as a distinctive group, more prone to acts of terrorism. It isn’t a false assertion as you state Donna but completely accurate as the facts show.

    Muslim terrorist attacks are covered more than non Muslim terrorist attacks because they come from a small minority of the population, occur much more often and normally cause far more casualties especially of those injured; many with life changing injuries. For example, 700 were injured on 7/7 in London. There is also the large number of Muslim terrorist attacks that are thwarted every year in the UK/Europe by security forces. 12 Muslim terrorist attacks were stopped between 2017-2018 in the UK. Normally those stopped use explosives because they leave a larger trail of evidence.

    “This negative stereotypical portrayal of Muslims has helped shape a prejudicial view of Muslims which perceives them to be a threat to Western values”.

    About a third of British Muslims want to live under Sharia Law rather than British Law. Most Muslims in the UK come from Pakistan where a large majority support barbaric Sharia Law values. I can’t think of any other system of living that is more anti Western values than Sharia Law so it isn’t a perception that people have; it’s a reality.

    “The Muslim, “takeover” fears have their origin in Europe where the term “Muslim invasion” has been manufactured to stoke fears of Muslims and where the Muslim demographic has been held up as a central concern of most far-right movements”.

    The most popular name for baby boys in the UK is Mohamed in its various spelling forms. Muslims have far more children than Europeans and because polygamy is lawful in the Muslim world, it multiplies the numbers. Unlike here, the UK/Europe has also experienced mass migration for decades from the Muslim world. The number of Muslims in their countries has rapidly grown. As a rule Muslims do not assimilate into western society. Add the above to terrorism, a totally different value system and you can understand why Europeans are starting to vote for political parties that will listen to their justifiable concerns. The left wing labels anyone who doesn’t agree with them as “far right”. We should keep that term for people who are actually “far right” otherwise it loses its meaning; if it already hasn’t done so.

    “Also, the whole idea of Muslim community, especially in a European context, is a fantasy”.

    You obviously haven’t been to towns and cities in the UK with large Muslim populations. Muslim children grow up in these towns and cities in an almost total Islamic environment. That isn’t good for assimilation. I believe it’s the same in European countries. Again, it’s not a fantasy; it’s a reality.

    • spikeyboy says:

      Wholly crap Jason. Which white supremacist group do you belong to? There is a simple solution to slowing Muslim migration to a trickle and that is to quite simply stop bombing the crap out of the countries where they live. But then cheap oil is your “right” along with guns and white neighbourhoods. You do a wee count in the usa and reckon you know where every thing starts and stops but you’re an ignorant spiteful excuse for a human being. You tally all the white people killed and reckon that thats all that matters cause only white folk really matter. Iraq and WMD would be the greatest act of terrorism enacted this century but because it was visited on Muslims it doesnt count? Bush and Blair would be in jail if they were brought to trial. Bush has even had to cut trips to Europe for fear of being arrested. So your smugness at manipulating facts isnt very endearing. Your racism is sickening. And all I’ve mentioned is Iraq. And already the tally is so skewedas to be overwhelming. Bigots never look past their own noses. Where are we… two weeks after Chch and already the scum is rising..

      • Marc says:

        You are blind on one eye, he is absolutely right, as terrorist attacks in Europe over recent years have mostly been committed by Muslims, also is there an unhealthy crimes statistics.

        We could argue about the reasons, yes, but the white supremacist or similar attacks are as inexcusable as any other attack, but they are actually rarer than some people think.

        Skewing the statistics and presenting this as all about white people being ‘racist’ and bad is not going to work. Most people out there know the truth, so they will not fall for it.

        It appears though that ‘left’ and ‘liberal’ view defenders try to find every reason to blame the white and European for everything, as they have become the defenders of minorities, who dis-proportionally give them votes in elections.

        Labour has not changed in that regards, it is the party of minorities now, and is stuck with that label of reputation.

        Hence Jacinda and her words and actions maybe accepted for now, following the terror attack, but it will not resonate well for the future, with many voters.

        • spikeyboy says:

          Like I say Marc, you are not god to limit the world to the Western. I live on planet Earth as I’m sure you do too. That means the whole world. That means including the middle East where many Muslims live. The terror unleashed in this part of the world by the US military is so extreme and violent and cruel and on a scale that dwarfs aggression and terror by any other entity. It is only your view of white supremacy that prevents you from seeing this. If you care to read what I wrote above about Falujah and then read Beyond The Green Zone you would see that just this one tiny place in time events occurred that can only make you wonder what the hell is going on?? In Libya now with a black slave trading market, in Yemen where if you haven’t looked lately there are tiny children with barely an ounce of flesh left on there bodies while the UK and the US refuel and rearm Saudi war planes that target food and any infrastructure that might give support to the civilian population. This is what terror really looks like. Please, with your shootings in Europe garbage. If you dont see these victims of terror as fellow human beings I really arent interested in your pathetic accounting

          • Marc says:

            You are as one eyed and biased as they come.

            • Mjolnir says:

              Actually, Marc, it seems tgat Spikeyboy has it well sussed

              While the west spends billions on weapons to deploy throughout the middle east, it holds back on aid to Yemenis who are on tge brink of disaster

              If you wonder why muslims hate westerners so much, just consider the obscene interference we commit in their lands

              The US arms the Saudis who are locked in a local struggle for dominance against the Iranians. Muslims see that and understand fully the deadly games we play and the body count rises

              How would we react if these conflicts between Saudi Arabia and Iran were plated out in Europe or north America

          • Marc says:

            You know what came out of Fallujah, right? ISIS, so you defend ISIS then, right? Fight fire with brimstone, I suppose.

            • spikeyboy says:

              Precisely the attitude of the US military which you obviously ascribe to in your hatred of all things Muslim. Collective punishment was of course outlawed in the Nuremburg trials so I guess you have to also go along with Trumps trashing of international law and agree with the Chch gunmans hatred of the U N. Finally, you may be a lonely voice In placing ISIS roots at Falujah. Maybe a few years early when in 2004 the US was shooting women, children, medics and dropping white phosphorous but easy now to see your true hatred revealed. At this stage the US still had a chance to be white knights but of course there was never a chance they would take it

            • spikeyboy says:

              Just wondering Marc, is that what they told you on American Sniper cause I just know youve seen it more than once.

      • Jason says:

        Spikeyboy, You always know when someone has lost a debate; they throw out ad hominem abuse and you’re full of it. Your reply proves my point in spades. I’ve provided FACTS. They prove that Donna’s article is wrong and very misleading. I linked to an article in the left wing Guardian newspaper!! So if that makes me a white supremacist it shows how utterly nonsensical people like you are on the left wing. Where have I made a racist comment? It’s you that has made racist comments against white people. That you don’t understand “proportionality” shows the paucity of your argument but I’ll try again. If 86% of those jailed in a western country for terrorism come from 5% of the population, does that make them massively over-represented?

        “There is a simple solution to slowing Muslim migration to a trickle and that is to quite simply stop bombing the crap out of the countries where they live”.

        The overwhelming vast majority of Muslims killed have been and continue to be killed by their fellow Muslims. Another FACT for you. However, I agree that we shouldn’t be involved militarily in Muslim countries but even if we didn’t, we would still have Islamic terrorism in western countries because it’s the religion that drives the terrorism and not foreign policy. That is borne out by the FACTS.

        I don’t think you’ll find many that supported the invasion of Iraq; me included. That is shown by only four countries taking part – the US, UK, Australia and Poland. If they did it for oil, it was extremely expensive oil. I believe the US only bought one tenth of their oil from Iraq and still do. Most of their oil comes from Saudi Arabia, Mexico and Canada.

        “Bush has even had to cut trips to Europe for fear of being arrested”

        Please provide evidence for the above.

        • spikeyboy says:

          You get your news and views from the Guardian and believe it to be left wing. Well thats a laugh. About as left wing as Tony Blair.

        • spikeyboy says:

          I got it now Jason. I understand that there is no way to talk sense to you. Even though it is ackonwledged that the whole Saudi effort in Yemen can not proceed without the refuelling of their jets and the targeting assistance supplied also by Uk and US you refuse to count the tally there as anything other than Muslim on Muslim. Similarly for the Us in Syria and the destruction of Libya. Very cold Jason . Does it also require you to think of them as a little less human or just easily manipulated? . Good luck with your Guardian reading.

        • The overwhelming vast majority of Muslims killed have been and continue to be killed by their fellow Muslims.

          Evidence for that, Jason?

          Are you telling us that the death toll from Western invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq, and sponsored civil war in Syria, can be mitigated by pointing to “the overwhelming vast majority of Muslims killed have been and continue to be killed by their fellow Muslims”?

          Very convenient, Jason.

          The West continues to interfere in Middle East nations affairs and the resulting chaos and deaths is then put on Muslims?

          Can you confirm, Jason, which country sells the greatest number of destructive weapons to middle east regimes?

          Which nation is the supplier of arms to Saudi Arabia?

          The West is responsible for Middle East instability and you have the cheek to blame it on the targets of our interference. Your arguments are disingenuous, Jason.

    • Iain McLean says:

      JASON;

      Thanks for your research.

      That really puts things into perspective.

      We are clearly being sold a crock by our Overlords.

      Cheers.

      • Iain, the fact you appear to support Jason’s islamophobic rant is – to put it mildly – troubling.

        • Marc says:

          I considered Jason’s comments as being rather reasonable, while I myself have a lot of sympathy for Muslims.

          • Mjolnir says:

            There is a strong islamophobic streak running throughnthis discussion and chief perps are Jason, Marc, and Iain

            The west interferes in middle east affairs and the islamophobes wonder why the victims react against us

            Racism thrives on this forum

      • Jason says:

        IAIN – Many thanks. You most definitely are being given a false narrative by our Overlords. People in Europe are beginning to see that and voting accordingly.

        • …and voting accordingly.

          Vote for whom, Jason? Who is it that stands up to “our Overlords”?

          • Iain McLean says:

            Frank;

            “Who is it that stands up to “our Overlords”?

            First and formost America / Trump – which is why he is demonized.

            England with Brexit – if they would only stop the delay.

            And all Populist Gvts – now let me see.

            Europe? Hungary, Poland, Italy, Chechs, Solvenia, Bulgaria, Greece but they crumbled, Austria, ah all those who did
            not sign the migration pact,
            I think there was 18 in all – Australia was one – France
            with the Yellow Vests still going months now and getting worse with Le Penn set to win next election,
            I think Spain is almost ready, Of course Russia, Nth Korea, Iran, Syria, with India and Turkey now buying superior Russian weapons,Venezuela and Cuba of cause, Brazil
            with a new populist, nearly forgot China, all off the top of
            my head, there must be more?

            The world is waking up and Soros and Kissinger are beginning to hint in their journals that their well laid plans
            are starting to fail.

            Good news?

            • Iain, you put a lot of faith into a billionaire who is one of Our Overlords…

              I’m sure Mr Trump appreciates your devotion. (If he was aware of your existence.)

            • Your glee at populist (aka neo fascist) governments is noted, Iain.

              I’m happy to disappoint you, Iain that, much like the neo liberal fad, people will eventually tire of populist regimes. Like neo liberalism, populism makes promises it can never keep.

              Turkey’s president Erdogan recently lost several critical election. Turkey’s voters have spoken in Istanbul and Ankara.

              • Iain McLean says:

                Frank;

                Just a word on promises.

                Trump has nearly completed all of his
                promises he made on his election campaign
                in the first 2 yrs of his term setting a precedent.

                Reform of Obama Care and the building of the border wall (which is in progress)
                just two of few to go.

                All of his achievements seem rarely reported,
                or not at all.

                When MSM are omitting or deceiving by propaganda and lies,
                for those that realize, we are left with only one place to go – Alt-Media.

                Before you start screaming alt right, extreme right etc all the emotive terms,
                I am talking about pure Independent Media which can be left, right or neutral.

                The Drudge Report, Breitbart, Zero Hedge and The Daily Caller are just some well known examples.

                Infowars are banned of cause but Prison Planet are still using the Youtube platform.

                My definition of an Overlord is that small group of Oligarchs that don’t just advise but instruct All our Governments what to do or say.

                It’s this level of people many either don’t know about or find hard to believe.

                Kissinger may be an example of what we can see.

                Cheers.

                • “Reform of Obama Care and the building of the border wall (which is in progress)
                  just two of few to go.”

                  Can I interest you in some shares in the Auckland harbour bridge?

    • About a third of British Muslims want to live under Sharia Law rather than British Law.

      Citation for that, Jason?

      The most popular name for baby boys in the UK is Mohamed in its various spelling forms.

      Untrue. The most common names (for boys) in Britain are Oliver, Harry, George, Jack, and then Jacob.

      Muslims have far more children than Europeans and because polygamy is lawful in the Muslim world, it multiplies the numbers.

      Polygamy is not “lawful” in European countries.

      So what does that have to do with muslims in the West? False equivalence.

      As well, polygamy appears to be a declining, unpopular trend in the muslim world according to Samia Rahman.

      ref: https://www.theguardian.com/world/belief/2008/nov/21/islam-polygamy-do-not-want

      You’ve apparently spent a considerable amount of time gathering cherry-picked “facts” to present a seemingly coherent argument, Jason. But taken in it’s entirety, it is islamophobic sophistry (and I’m being as polite as I can).

      In contrast, the muslim people who have address our public gatherings have spoken with tolerance, compassion, and appreciation for other New Zealanders’ shared grieving. In one instance, a muslim leader spoke of forgiveness for the alleged shooter’s atrocity.

      That is a lesson you could learn from.

  8. Andy says:

    The 35,000 or so Jihadi attacks since 9/11 might possibly shape people’s opinions on Islam, just saying…

    • spikeyboy says:

      The same applies to you Andy. What god given gift entitles you to be the gate keeper of what counts snd what doesnt? All loss of human life counts and the Bush / Blair terror in Iraq simply dwarfs all other counts. The only way to refute this is to assert that only white lives count which of course is what you are asserting because you’re a white supremacist sympathizer

      • Andy says:

        I don’t support US “regime change” pre emtive warfare in the Middle East.

        Neither do I condone or apologise for Islamic Jihad, IRA terrorism, white supremacist violence or any other form of violence against innocents

        So your point is what, exactly ?

        • Marc says:

          Good question, Andy, it seems to be a waste of time to try and reason with SB.

        • spikeyboy says:

          My point is that you are more than ready to agree to some type of collective responsibility when Muslims done it but unable to bring yourself to it when US Military done it. You don’t recognise the powerful influence of fundamental Christianity pushing the US military along and don’t paint all US citizens with the fundamental Christianity brush but don’t hesitate to do it with the Muslim community. So which is it? Collective responsibility or not. And if for one then also for the other. And if for both then why the deafening silence about all the western lead terror (it took years for Yemen to get in the news)but a continual drum beat about the dangers from Muslim communities and their continual harassment by the SIS . You pluck a number out of thin air and wave it around to stick onto every Muslim community but would think it crazy for Americans to have travel bans imposed or to be deported or generally harassed because of the terror imposed on the world by their military. What about a Guantanamo for randomly plucked and tortured Americans?

    • Or the constant negative stories, Andy, that don’t portray accurately and fairly the other 99.99% of muslims.

      Just think how you’d view Christians if all we had was a daily diet of conflict, framed through Christian religious affiliations?

      Remember when, a few years back, all men were portrayed as [potential] rapists? Remember the catch-phrase “All men are rapists”?

      Remember how men found that portrayal as (a) unfair (b) inaccurate (c) offensive?

      Now you begin to get an inkling of how muslims feel.

      For a more in-depth look at how the media portays muslims, have a listen to this; https://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/2018688583/reporting-islam-before-and-after-15-3

      • Andy says:

        Why are Muslim reformists and ex-Muslims who want to improve the lot of their people being silenced? Why was Ayaan Hirsi Ali’s talk in NZ stopped?

        Why is no one talking about Nasrin Sotoudeh, the woman sentenced to 38 years in prison and 148 lashes for campaigning for the rights of women to remove their headscarves?

        Why has the Stuff article from 2014 reporting on a possible Jihadist link with the Al Noor mosque been deleted?

        Why did we invite Cat Stevens, and man who is on public record as supporting the murder of Salman Rushdie, to sing at the remembrance service recently?

        Oh OK, not PC. Let’s pretend that none of these issues exist. Then we will all live in peace and sing John Lennon’s anthem to nihilism, “Imagine”. Woop woop you go girl Jacinda, so proud, yay.

        • None of which has anything to do with an unprovoked attack on a group of unarmed men, women, and children.

          All you’ve given us, Andy, is a crass example of ‘whataboutism’.

          • Andy says:

            Most of the responses to me have been “whataboutism”.

            My point is that free speech is under serious threat in NZ after this atrocity.

            Why do I think this is a bad thing? Because it drives legitimate questions such as the ones I ask into the underground and it lingers and ferments into the kind of hatred we have seen here in Christchurch

            • Sam Sam says:

              We gave Tarrant safe haven and comfort to do his wicked deeds. The status quo can not be allowed.

            • “My point is that free speech is under serious threat in NZ after this atrocity.

              Why do I think this is a bad thing? Because it drives legitimate questions such as the ones I ask into the underground”

              And yet, Andy, here you are. Your ability to speak your mind on this forum is intact.

            • Mjolnir says:

              The problem I have with so- called free speech is that all too often its a useful cloak for hate speech. Even subtle coded “criticisms” build up a hateful picture. It wont affect us white folk but it has lethal consequences for people of other religions and ethnic groupings

        • Marc says:

          Wow, Andy, for once I agree with you.

    • Marc says:

      Andy you know, it is not tolerated to mention certain facts at present, we live in PC territory, so anything critical about Islam and Muslims is not tolerated, n matter what.

    • ” 35,000 or so Jihadi attacks since 9/11″

      Where do you get that figure from, Andy?

    • Marc says:

      I don’t know where Andy got his figure from, but maybe he thought of this kind of chart:
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism#/media/File:Global_Terrorism_Index_2015_depicts_death_from_terror_attacks_2000-2014,_p._14.png

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islamic_terrorism

      Only some of such terror attacks happened in ‘western’ countries, though, most happened in a handful of countries in Africa, the Mid East and Asia.

  9. Marc says:

    I appreciate the points you are making, but get real, there have been terror attacks by islamists in Europe, less so in the US.

    Remember the murders in Paris? Remember the truck in Marseille killing many, driven by an IS supporter of sorts?

    There is an ugly side to Islam, that is Islamism, and radicalism, where they interpret Sharia law in the wider sense, basically supporting and executing punishment also the Old Testament of the Bible supported.

    So we have a small Muslim community in New Zealand, that has proved to be peaceful and productive to society. That is good and deserves recognition. Also are Muslims here, in their majority now grateful for the support by the PM and others, for the pain they suffered due to the Christchurch terror attacks.

    Let us not forget though, that in some other places, where Muslims are representing a larger part of society (e.g. France, Germany), there have also been radicals at work and succeeding in turning Muslims against the rest of the population, and other radicals have been successful in turning their supporters against Muslims.

    In some Muslim dominated countries there is NO religious freedom, even in places where Christianity has existed for about two thousand years, i.e. Egypt, Christians live in fear of radicals of the Muslim majority. In Iraq most Christians have left, due to fear of radicals and even the state, now being dominant Muslim and having less tolerance for those of other belief.

    Look at the tensions in Syria, Lebanon, in other places, including Iran, where Christians and Jews have to defend their existence, that is where Islam has shown its ugly face, the terror of the majority.

    ISIS were just the worst and most extreme expression of Islam, there are much better examples of where Muslims show some tolerance.

    We have to be mindful of this also, it is not all as clear cut as it seems, Muslims in NZ are a small minority and doing all to fit in, only few are perhaps less tolerant. But if they would perhaps represent ten or more percent of the population, you would soon have certain issues with them demanding moral and other things to be enforced, that would go against our own culture and tradition.

    And also get this straight, disliking or hating people of a religion is not ‘racism’, it is hatred towards a religion, nothing else. There ware white, black, yellow and other Muslims all over the world, so to make this a race issue is wrong and not correct.

    • spikeyboy says:

      Oh please! Get real with your definition of racism. Even in segregated US there were honarary whites. Some Maori All Blacks were honarary whites in South Africa. It doesnt mean there is no racism. Do you really think that a person could say I hate the Jewish religion and not be labelled anti semitic? So Marc you are a racist. Youre just going to have to live with it

    • Jason says:

      I completely agree with you Marc. Things will change when the Muslim community grows to the same levels as Europe. Sharia Law doesn’t change substantially and they are being taught it in NZ. The left wing will keep calling criticism of Islam racism even though you cannot conflate race with religion.

      • You have not been able to demonstrate any sizable number of Muslims wanting to introduce Sharia law. The earlier posts were from a right wing, neocon website, and specific polls were not mentioned.

        So we have no idea who conducted the polls; their sample number; methodology; nor questions asked.

        So your assertions, Jason, are covert Islamophobia.

        • Jason says:

          Frank, most of my comments are not being posted. You raised an objection to one poll but I gave you 4 other polls. I replaced the one you objected to with a poll by Policy Exchange. That has not been posted so I will repost it purely as a link which hopefully will work. You will then have 2 polls by Policy Exchange, 2 polls by ICM Research and one poll by NOP Research. The conclusion is the same; about one third of British Muslims want to live under Sharia Law rather than British Law.

          Reports by Policy Exchange have helped set British government policy on a wide range of issues including extremism, education, and law. Both British Conservative and Labour MPs have worked with Policy Exchange. At the time of her murder by a far right white supremacist, the British Labour MP Jo Cox was working with Policy Exchange on a pamphlet which examined Britain’s attitude to intervening in humanitarian situations overseas. An organisation of this standard would use best practice polling methodologies.

          ICM Research has won various awards for its polling work including the Silver Medal in 2007 for Developing reliable online polls, the Innovation in Research Methodology 2013 and the Market Research Society Silver Medal for Best Paper in the International Journal of Market Research. It was credited by the British Polling Council with the most accurate prediction of the 1997, 2001 and 2010 General Elections. Like Policy Exchange, ICM Research would use best practice polling methodologies.

          NOP Research was the 9th largest market research organisation in the World in 2005 when it was acquired by GfK SE which is the largest market research organisation in Germany and the 4th largest in the World. The NOP Research poll I linked was the most comprehensive survey to date of Muslim opinions in Britain. The results of that poll were broadcast by the British Channel 4 TV. They would not have done that unless NOP Research wasn’t a trusted organisation. Like Policy Exchange and ICM Research, NOP Research would use best practice polling methodologies.

          “So your assertions, Jason, are covert Islamophobia”.

          No Frank – they are facts. People like you and Islamists don’t like uncomfortable facts about Islam and Muslims because you can’t refute facts. The only option you and they have is to throw out the “Islamophobia” card.

  10. Mjolnir says:

    “Look at the tensions in Syria, Lebanon, in other places, including Iran, where Christians and Jews have to defend their existence, that is where Islam has shown its ugly face, the terror of the majority.”

    No Marc, the reason for violence in the middle east is not due to islam. You should look closer to home wgere the US and UK have interfered in tge affairs of various countries, toppling govts and supporting dictatorships. The islamic repupblic of Iran was formed after the overthrow of the despotic Shah of Iran. The shah was installed in a western backed coup that overthrew thecdemocrstically elected Prime Minister Mohammad Mosaddegh in 1953

    The taliban seized power in afghanistan because of direct US support for so-called ” mujahideen” which led to the Soviet withdrawal and an islamic republic taking power

    In every case, Jason, Iain, Marc, etc, it was western interference that resulred in unintended consequences

    Those muslims who’ve escaped and migrated to NZ as refugees want no part of the power-games that’ve destroyed their societies

    Conflating their muslim religion is obscene irony considering what we in the west have wrought in their countries

    • spikeyboy says:

      Well put mjolnir

      • Marc says:

        Yeah, right:

        ‘Spread of Islam’

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spread_of_Islam

        “As of 2015, there were 2 billion Muslims,[5][6] with one out of four people in the world being Muslim,[7] making Islam the second-largest religion in the world.[8] Out of children born from 2010 to 2015, 31% were Muslim. Babies born to Muslims are expected to outnumber those to Christians by 2035.[9]”

        And Islam was spread more likely due to worldly strategies than by conversion and the likes:
        “Conversion initially was neither required nor necessarily wished for: “(The Arab conquerors) did not require the conversion as much as the subordination of non-Muslim peoples. At the outset, they were hostile to conversions because new Muslims diluted the economic and status advantages of the Arabs.”[12]”

        At least the Muslims taught the filthy and smelly Europeans to wash daily, thus adopt more hygienic lifestyles.

        • spikeyboy says:

          Getting sick of the mask of a reasonable man Marc? Feeling a little suffocated and starting to choke on your own vomit? Just tear it off man! Really let that hatred out! It might do some good though I doubt it but at least everyone else will know to stay clear

    • Marc says:

      The Islamic Republic in Iran was the thought out end result of hard line, conservative Mullahs, who outsmarted the more liberal, and socialist Iranians that also participated in the overthrow of the Shah.

      You can hardly justify the Mullah’s regime by saying that was the logical and acceptable only alternative to a regime by the authoritarian, western backed Shah.

      There could have been other alternatives, but the religiously motivated opposition won in the end, leading to a system that is known as one that kills a lot of people through harsh punishment.

      Human rights have a different meaning in today’s Iran of the Mullahs than they have in other places closer to home.

      By the way I know some Iranians that came to NZ after fleeing that regime there, and they were not loving the Shah either.

  11. Marc says:

    Some figures for Europe, perhaps a bit out of date (prior the refugee influx from Syria and so), but putting things into some perspective:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religion_in_the_European_Union

    The issues with some Muslims may arise due to failed ‘integration’, even after one or two generations, and due to high concentration of certain populations in certain parts of larger cities, exploited by some who may try to radicalise youth.

    Overall Europe is largely ‘Christian’ or non believers these days.

    Some countries have higher concentrations of Muslims, others less so.

    Given social and economic changes, some will indeed try and find a scapegoat for their problems, hence increased ‘nationalism’ and mistrust of the establishment and their press.

    • spikeyboy says:

      You’re a few years late with your ideas on assimilation. It’s a complete failure and has serious cosequences when people run up against the type of racist that you are where you look down your nose and make sure they know that you know that the colour of their skin isn’t quite right and so it doesnt matter how hard they try there will always be some little thing that still isnt quite right and now they dont even have their own culture to support them. I suppose you think the ideas of taking the children away from there parents to bring up ‘properly’in some institution that abuses them physically and sexually is worth having another go at too. You know. Proper assimilation.

      • Marc says:

        You keep calling me a ‘racist’, without even knowing me, and you are intentionally misrepresenting comments I have made, ranting on like an obsessed person.

        If you are to determined to defend a multicultural society, or hell bent on creating one in New Zealand, just do your calculations, work out the percentages of populations on the planet, that are Chinese, Indian, Vietnamese, Indonesian, Arab, Turkish, Russian, French, English, Spanish, Portuguese, Brazilian, Norwegian, Swedish, Haussa, Massai, Zulu, American Indian and whatsoever ethnic and/or cultural group you can find, and convince Immigration NZ to ensure that a representative number of immigrants from each such group of persons is ensured entry into this country.

        Will the population you may wish to create also be sustainable, some may ask?

        Oh, I forgot, maybe consider Tangata Whenua, how high is their global percentage? Maybe minute, so give them the space and rights according to their global population percentage then.

        I wonder how they will view your ideas and plans, when coming with your determination to have a representative New Zealand UN type multicultural population.

        Assimilation is not necessarily the solution, but people need to adhere to the law on an equal footing, so special considerations cannot be had before the law (based on religion, culture or individual preferences). If you allow too much diversity, then you may have little true unity in the end.

        So a population needs to feel to have sufficient in common, and in some places the people may feel that some imbalances are evolving.

        Pointing out such facts has nothing to do with ‘racism’.

        • Jason says:

          Marc,
          Well said. Spikeyboy is on the hard left of politics. It’s very difficult to have a debate with someone like him. When confronted with uncomfortable truths that they can’t rebut, they throw out the race card.

          • Iain McLean says:

            [Comment declined for publication. Do not accuse people of being “trolls”, Iain. You do not get to decide who is, isn’t a “troll”. You are here as a guest to debate issues, as is everyone else. – Scarletmod]

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