Today’s memorial was deeply emotional and touching and managed to say so much about who we are and how we have been tested.
Hollie Smith is a national treasure.
The anthem never meant so much and sounded so beautiful.
Peace Train was a spine tingling moment.
And Jacinda.
Oh Jacinda.
The beauty, strength, compassion, grace and dignity Jacinda & the vast, vast majority of New Zealanders have shown in the face of this horrific atrocity has made me prouder to be a Kiwi than any other single time in my life.
We are a casual, laid back folk, and while we have many grievances and damage from our colonial history, while the pain of depression, suicide and domestic violence speak of dark nightmares beneath that relaxed facade, the way we have navigated this horror has made me weep in admiration and genuine appreciation of us as a people, as a community and as a society.
I wrote this about Jacinda when she first became leader, I think every word has managed to ring true as to who she is and how she has redefined political leadership for us.
Jacinda’s emotional intelligence and her empathy make her a powerful leader and she seems so fresh because she represents an enormous generational shift.
Jacinda is the first political representation of Gen Y. The thing that makes her so unique is her total lack of Ego. She is conscientious to a fault, she’s part of a Generation that was taught empathy and compassion and consideration for others and recycling.
Always with the bloody recycling.
Put bluntly.
Baby Boomers – “Me, me, me”.
Gen Xers – “Why me, why me, why me”.
Gen Y – “Why you, why I, Why us”.
She’s part of a kinder Generation taught and brought up in a culture that was desperate to be inclusive of others and that ignoring inclusivity was the greatest sin.
This is why she is so widely popular. She brings with, she doesn’t talk down to, she is all about getting agreement to move forward because that was how decision making was being taught in our education system.
Jacinda is a product of her generation, and because most of the pundits are older than her, they judge her by their own generations combativeness and cynicism.
Which is why they don’t get her.
Jacinda as a Gen Y brings a totally different skill set to the table and her popularity with younger voters has to do with her reflecting those values on inclusivity.
…she, we and us have been tested.
So far, we have earned the right to hold our heads up.
Kia Kaha comrades.
Yeah , shes doing well,… only thing concerns me a little bit is unfortunately , this incident has paved the way for some long desired ( by some ) security measures that seem a little like the thin edge of the wedge with regards overbearing security measures…
Fact is , I don’t know if the security services could have prevented any of this, sadly. No security system is 100% watertight. Not one of them. If someone wanted to keep a low profile, remained tight lipped and carry out this tragedy they could. Because it is a lone operator, not a far more easily detected larger group.
True there were signs apparently on Facebook.
But then , there are a lot of armchair fascists and nerds on computers who just like to spill bile online. Each and every subject has their fair share of ranters. The question is, which ones do the spy services haul in for questioning?
I’m glad semi automatics are getting the overhaul they needed. Its a no brainer. On the whole , Jacinda Adern and the coalition are the best people to have on the job steering us through all this.
National with their puppets John Key , Paula Bennet and Bill English would have been a nightmare. An absolute , unmitigated nightmare.
100% to Adern and her coalition government.
Martyn that is by far the best thing you have ever written
Kia ora mate
Fair enough, I accept that Jacinda is a good leader when it comes to those ‘soft skills’, social skills and speaking skills, and the likes.
But to be successful in government the hard reality comes back to bite people that think that social and soft skills are all that matter.
What I also noted was a bit of a mourning, reminding and sympathy fatigue among the population.
I followed the events, the coverage this morning, and am following news and other reports almost 24/7.
What struck me was that the attendance of today’s memorial service was only significant in Christchurch, which is understandable, given that the horrific terror attacks happened right there two weeks ago. That is where most victims and fatalities come from, where the shock was immediate and where first line responders were working at the coal face.
RNZ reported at first 100 attendees of a screening in Dunedin (later 150), 500 in Wellington (later 1,000), 40 in Whanganui and ‘a few hundred’ in Eden Park in Auckland.
And of those, many were Muslims themselves. While numbers increased a bit over the days for Eden Park in Auckland, TV footage shown during the news showed an empty stadium, only one stand being filled by a few hundred persons attending.
And re Christchurch and Auckland news footage, it appeared as if the cameras were moved and positioned in a manner, to make the ‘crowds’ appear larger than they actually were.
My thoughts were that the timing of the National Day of Remembrance may have been bad, on a Friday morning, but then, it appeared that some schools sent their students there, thus boosting numbers. In Christchurch there were dignitaries and visitors from overseas also.
As I observed, most people were working, were studying at school or elsewhere, or were doing their day to day routine. While some may have followed the event on TV and radio or the web, I feel that most people have had their expressions of pain, sorrow, disappointment and sympathy, and have by now moved on.
So for some this may appear a bit like the remembrance of the terror attack and its victims may have had its time, it is time to move on.
Those celebrating Jacinda may not be aware of this, also while taking in the events and feelings, and are living in their own bubble of self affirmed awareness, while many others are back to focus on their own immediate concerns they have.
i think that the friday before, and the 2 minutes silence had a huge uptake and most people acknowledged that, i know our workplace stopped and heard that most others did as well, apart from Cat Stevens coming the memorial did not even get a mention,
Yes be proud, our prime minister is showing true leadership.
When working on aboriginal communities in Australia I was struck by how many of us kiwis were there, working with the locals. We are actually pretty good at just treating people like people. Our soldiers are good at this when deployed abroad.
We sure ain’t perfect but from an unhappy colonial start we are more culturally aware than many.
I hope the axe grinders and splitters can try and see the big picture. Improve yourself, look after those in need. Try and see the other side.
The PM is giving a masterclass in inclusivity. I hope she uses the mandate she has earned well.
That, my friend, is why I like your comments
At times of crisis leaders either raise to the challenge or self destruct or do nothing.
Jacinda has most definitely stepped up and been her real self , none of it has been staged , none of it an act and she has never needed an aggressive media campaign to sell her to the public like an ex currency dealer in recent history who despite his immense wealth was an ok guy because he was born in a state house.
And boy did his media fan club push the positive publicity even when it was clear he could not lie straight in bed.
We are fortunate that in the aftermath of this horrible slaughter of innocent people that Jacinda is able to be firm and genuinely comforting with her words and actions.
This has been the harshest of tests for a leader and PM to confront but she has done it with grace and fortitude.
I just can’t see any of the others not least from the National party that could have shown the compassion and strength that Jacinda has shown.
Great post Bomber and well written.
This event as awful as it is has shown us that we have a real world leader as our PM and March 15th has defined her premiership for as long as she is PM and beyond.
Best comment on this thread imo. Well said Mosa.
We should have a referendum on banning guns…
Good on the Prime Minister. She hardly ever puts a foot wrong.
Though I do believe that she would be a much more deserving recipient of this honour than some the last few.
Now, if the Prime Minister banned all guns,, every handgun, every rifle, every shotgun, Now that would be a major contribution to “World Peace”, truly worthy of international acclaim.
‘New Zealand; the world’s first gun free zone’
Before you laugh the idea out of court, consider this; before the arrival of the Europeans, Maori had no firearms, and they coped.
But what about pest control and animal management? You might ask.
Have firearms really been that effective in controlling pests?
And couldn’t farmers carry captured bolt guns to put down sick animals. Wouldn’t that be more humane, and safer than having to carry around a loaded weapon?
To really gain world attention, the Prime Minister could start by banning all private gun and ammunition sales, and stop issuing gun licences. Now that would be something worth talking about. Sporting goods stores could still sell all their other goods. And our police wouldn’t have to carry machine guns at public events. The police would able to become more of a respected moral authority. The police would still have their tasers and batons, and the legal right to use them against us, if need be. And they wouldn’t have to worry about getting shot in retaliation.
But what about our sports hunters? You might ask.
This is the land of birds, Maori did not need guns, (see above).
Is the only reason we allow feral deer and goats and pigs, despite all the damage they do to our native forests, is to allow the sports hunter their indulgence? If we were really serious about getting rid of these pests we would.
They are not native here, this is the land of birds.
And if you really need to hunt wild deer, pigs and goats, travel to some country where these animals are native and not pests. Make a safari of it.
And duck hunting? Really. I mean these things are so easy to shoot that they are only allowed to be shot on the wing. You could catch them in a net, that is, if you really wanted to eat wild duck. I have eaten wild duck and they are stringy things, tasted like dirt, not good eating at all, and spitting out bits of buckshot isn’t fun. Yeah we could do without this, and civilisation wouldn’t collapse.
Need I mention the role easy access to guns plays in this country’s high suicide rate.
But we needn’t force gun owners to give up their, pistols, shotguns and rifles, we would just Grandfather them out of existence.
This move would present a serious challenge to the global gun culture.
Would young people even ever want to own one, or fire one?
I believe most people are sick to death of the whole gun culture.
So let’s do it, let’s drive a stake right through its heart.
If the Prime Minister could pull this off, even she, would have to agree, that she truly deserved the Nobel Peace Prize.
https://www.newshub.co.nz/home/politics/2019/03/christchurch-terror-attack-nobel-peace-prize-talk-doesn-t-sit-comfortably-with-me-pm.html?fbclid=IwAR2LHrnv9uAcEh_hMidtyfmBSogld-GSY_Wl3WSzMNoOe-NMmWjMuJDm32M
Yes Pat Odea!
Calls to ban all guns are genius for a number of reasons:
1) we might win a prize
2)pests do actual need controlling by farmers/hunters there is a need for humane euthanasia if large animals etc but who needs practicality! Ban all farming as well?
3)Threatening the actual existence of all gun ownership will harden all gun owners against any changes to anything! Brilliant.
4) Let’s persecute the gun owners who didn’t do anything wrong by taking everything off them! We can feel so much better about ourselves! Dont mention the gangs of course 44 percent of whom have been charged with firearms offences, they will hand in their illegal guns! – or not! https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111594950/gangs-bosses-say-weapons-wont-be-handed-back-after-christchurch-mosque-shooting. They actually ARE criminals!
5) Also applicable to other things we don’t like: I suggest cyclists, a hazard for their own and others safety, high mortality rate, let’s ban them! Take their bikes off them or make them wear a special badge in public.
6) Just basking in the glow of the gigantic virtue signal this is.
It’s fantastic identity politics and demonises one portion of society nicely, just like the shooter intended.
Stay woke.
In a world soaked in horrific violence, New Zealand would be a beacon and gun free haven of peace bringing hope to the whole world. Any international recognition of such a major achievement would be well deserved.
Yes pests do need controlling. Let’s have a massive trapping program, and get rid of the lot. Humans made Europe’s beavers, wolves, lions, and giant elk extinct long before the invention of guns. There is no evidence at all that guns have made any impact on New Zealand’s pest species. And as for humane euthanasia; shooting a deer in the gut or spine, and then walking up to the terrified animal for the kill shot, is hardly humane.
Changes are coming whether gun owners like it or not. Gun owners are only a tiny minority of the population, most people don’t own guns. (or even want to own one), In a democracy why should gun owners have more say than the rest of us. That is why I say; we should put it to a referendum. Let’s test it, let’s see if the vast majority of us, want this minority to have guns.
Most people with children will vote to ban guns. And personally speaking I would feel much better not having the police carrying machine guns, or any firearms for that matter.
What you are ignoring here Keep Calm, is this; Where do the gangs get their guns?
The answer is from legal gun owners. Mainly in burglaries, and in some cases illegal deals.
Getting rid of the legal guns will get rid of the source of the illegal guns.
And who knows. Maybe some gang members would give up their illegal guns voluntarily. Especially if gun ownership became socially unacceptable.
In my opinion, Keep Calm, Your points 5( and 6) are just emotive whinging. If you care to make them again, maybe in a more serious, less whiney tone, I might answer them.
“ no evidence that guns have made any impact on pest species”
You are simply wrong:
https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/03014223.2013.870586
“Recreational big game hunters make a significant contribution to conservation through kills of deer, pigs, chamois and tahr. ”
“The most recent estimate of national recreational hunting effort and harvest was in 1988, when Nugent found that recreational hunters were responsible for about 58% of wild deer harvested. Recreational hunting is likely to be much more significant now though because of reduced commercial activity, “
I didn’t expect you to read the link I provided which talked of gang members having firearms licenses and “importing” guns as well. You appear to be cherry picking to suit your emotive rather than factual viewpoint.
It’s obvious you have no experience of animal control, that’s OK, I’ll just wait here for a link from you showing it is viable to trap every introduced species to extinction in NZ.
I’d also strongly suggest when euthanising a farm animal not to gut shoot it,( that illegal if deliberate) that would also defeat the purpose of a humane euthanasia.
Do you consider yourself a cyclist? Most people don’t, I think we should have a referendum on getting rid of them.
Maori never bad bicycles.
Yours would be a selfish insular utopia. At least you are literally “thinking if the children”though eh
I’ll leave you to your navel again
Yes, many urban liberals live in their urban lifestyle bubble, they know nothing about farming and about pest control being done, also with the help of guns.
People living in cities are alienated to the natural world, and tend to (at best) have a ‘romantic’ view and relationship of/with nature.
And it is actually cities that are a large threat to nature, as they create a lot of pollution and the dwellers in cities are often wasteful people, not appreciating where things come from, e.g. their food, water and so forth.
KEEPCALMCARRYON says:
MARCH 31, 2019 AT 9:10 AM
I never said a ‘farm animal’. I wrote:
Try and twist my words if you like Keep Calm, it just discredits your whole pro-gun argument.
Your words don’t make sense.
Unlike yourself I know what constitutes euthanasia, being part of my profession. You are deliberately or out of ignorance conflating hunting with euthanasia.
Even so, go ahead and google the wounding rate for hunting with a firearm, it is low and lower than huntingg with bow and arrows.
Your are either a troll or ignorant of actual fact.
In that case you would be wrong. As anyone who knows me could tell you.
Why wait. Just google it.
https://predatorfreenz.org/trials-test-feasibility-of-removing-pigs-cats-and-mice-from-auckland-island/
https://www.doc.govt.nz/nature/pests-and-threats/predator-free-2050/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GigpxLNbgeg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v7JATeB8Ug0
You are simply trolling then.
Because clearly your links don’t show it is viable to trap every introduced species to extinction.
Do they.
Keep Calm, the last National government thought it was possible to make New Zealand predator free by 2050, who are you and I to disagree.
Ok let’s sidetrack from you being wrong about guns and pest control for a minute:
I clearly can’t speak for you, but I am capable of both independent thought and scientific analysis.
There is no way we will be predator free by 2050.
It was a vote buying excercise for simple people, those who enjoy their virtue signaling over hundreds of thousands of hectares with poison.
Last point : deer, tahr, chamois, goats all of which are controlled with firearms, aren’t predators.
Look it up.
I don’t think taking steps to stop gun violence, could in any way, be described as ‘selfish’.
And it certainly wouldn’t be ‘insular’. Unlike this country’s nuclear weapons free policy, which David Lange said was not for export, this policy will definitely be for export.
In fact, Keep Calm, the whole point of making New Zealand gun free, will be to set an example for the rest of the world.
And as for being a utopia; What ever (minor) hardships that gun free New Zealand would create for some people. It would be way better than the current blood soaked dystopia, we are experiencing now.
Becoming gun free will take courage,
The following is a example that took pure courage, that shows the way.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImwipiavM8k
I’m not sure which “blood soaked dystopia” you are living in, but in New Zealand our rate of death by firearms, including by accident, is 9 per million people.
That is low.
(Stats to 2018, factoring in the atrocity in Christchurch that is still very low)
To put that in perspective, the United States rate excluding accidents is 37200 per million people.
Brazil has 42300 gun homicides per million people.
Australia- much lauded as having strict gun control has a gun death rate per million of 238. Still higher than here.
Why is this?
Our vetting of owners was held up as an example to the world – when it was done properly.
Our laws worked well when the police did their job and did the background checks and vetting they were supposed to, they failed catastrophically with this Australian citizen though.
Now (after the victims families of course) it is law abiding gun owners, not you or the police who bear the brunt of change.
Others, like you have crawled out of the woodwork to get on their soap box and push their agendas. Most notably the police association.
Police should never be allowed to make laws in this country. Ask Martyn.
It sickens me frankly to see such factual ignorance and how freely the woke left would dispense with other people’s freedoms and privacy.
In a world soaked in horrific violence, New Zealand would be a beacon and gun free haven of peace bringing hope to the whole world. Any international recognition of such a major achievement would be well deserved.
Yes pests do need controlling. Let’s have a massive trapping program, and get rid of the lot. Humans made Europe’s beavers, wolves, lions, and giant elk extinct long before the invention of guns. There is no evidence at all that guns have made any impact on New Zealand’s pest species. And as for humane euthanasia; shooting a deer in the gut or spine, and then walking up to the terrified animal for the kill shot, is hardly humane.
Changes are coming whether gun owners like it or not. Gun owners are only a tiny minority of the population, most people don’t own guns. (or even want to own one), In a democracy why should gun owners have more say than the rest of us. That is why I say; we should put it to a referendum. Let’s test it, let’s see if the vast majority of us, want this minority to have guns.
Most people with children will vote to ban guns. And personally speaking I would feel much better not having the police carrying machine guns, or any firearms for that matter.
What you are ignoring here Keep Calm, is this; Where do the gangs get their guns?
The answer is from legal gun owners. Mainly in burglaries, and in some cases illegal deals.
Getting rid of the legal guns will get rid of the source of the illegal guns.
And who knows. Maybe some gang members would give up their illegal guns voluntarily. Especially if gun ownership became socially unacceptable.
In my opinion, Keep Calm, Your points 5) and 6) are just emotive whinging. If you care to make them again, maybe in a more serious, less whiney smart alec tone, I might choose to answer them.
Apart from points 5) and 6), I have totally rebutted all your other points. If you think I haven’t, you are free to point out where I have gone wrong. And I invite you to do so.
(which I don’t think you can)
My final point, which I would like you to consider Keep Calm, is this;
We have a chance to get rid of gun violence in this country forever.
Give me one real good reason why we shouldn’t.
[Comment declined for publication. Posting privileges rescinded until 11.53am, 2 April for continuing to post conspiracy material. – Scarletmod]
God knows what Iain Mclean said,
But if I had to guess, I would guess that it would be something that again demonstrates that some individuals should never have access to firearms.
Pat you are trolling absolute baseless crap to get a reaction. And you did.
Congratulations.
The shooter would be proud.
PAT;
A couple of myths to expose:
First the most obvious: “Captured bolt guns to put down sick animals”
do not “put down”/ kill animals at all.
They are stun guns to provide a small window of time to bleed the animal out.
Usually by cutting of the throat.
Commonly used in freezing works confined.
Imagine trying to ‘creep up’ on a crazed sick animal.
Second to the most wildly held belief:
‘Gun Free Zones’ in America are
where the highest crime rate areas occur.
Not the lowest as one might expect.
FACT.
An example of this is the murder rates in London now exceed that of New York,
usually by knives or other.
In other words;
GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE – PEOPLE DO.
As for your “We should have a referendum
on banning guns…”
How many philosophers have you heard say that democracies that rule by this 51% / 49% system is not really democracy at all.
Chomsky for one.
It is tyranny over the minority.
It’s not like we all own guns.
I have to agree with Keepcalm’s sentiments
on this one.
A “gigantic virtue signal”
Cheers.
GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE – PEOPLE DO.
“GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE – PEOPLE DO.”
You’re kidding us, Iain?!
When did you start working for the NRA?
Hi Iain, Let me walk you through your pro gun argument point by point, and show you why it is completely fallacious.
First of all I notice that you don’t supply any links or evidence to back up your pro-gun claims. It pays to remember here, that Wikipedia is your friend.
Use it.
*My emphasis, (Pat).
The point here Iain, is that contrary to what you claim, fire arms are not necessary for the euthanasia of injured or sick livestock.
Regular firearms are probably less suited for this purpose, due to the, ‘danger of ricochet’ and ‘over-penetration’ accidental discharge etc.
In my humble opinion, the desire to own and fire a gun serves no useful purpose and is a product of the macho Hollywood manufactured gun culture.
I gotta have a gun, or I don’t feel like a real man.
Iain if you really want to indulge your Rambo fantasies, and you enjoy killing things, maybe you could try pig hunting without guns, using dogs. Pig dogs trained to find and track the pigs and then bale them up and pin them, so that the hunter can step in and dispatch the pig with a knife, (traditionally in New Zealand an old WWII army surplus bayonet). Now that’s hard out. In this type of hunting a gun is actually a handicap, especially in thick bush or scrub, where in the melee of dogs and pig you are probably more likely to shoot one of your dogs, or even yourself, as not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ckD44wYg3s
As for the control of pest species, I have provided you more than enough links that show that trapping and snaring is just as effective, in fact more so, than sports hunting, or even mass organised gun culling. (Poisoning is even more effective in controlling pest species, but that’s another argument altogether).
As this report, (and others I have read), points out, the rise in knife crime in London, leading to the spike in murders, is more do with factors relating to policing, urban decay, youth unemployment, austerity, hopelessness. My guess is that the murder rate in London would vastly exceed that of New York; if added to this mix was easy access to guns.
GUNS DO NOT KILL PEOPLE – PSYCHOPATHS DO.
Best thing, make sure they can’t get hold of any.
Why am I not surprised that some one who is pro-gun is also opposed to democracy?
As for Noam Chomsky he blotted his copybook for me with his support for the bloody Assad regime which is committing genocide in Syria right now.
And as for Keep Calm;
KEEP CALM CARRY ON says:
APRIL 2, 2019 AT 8:34 PM
I’m not sure which “blood soaked dystopia” you are living in, but in New Zealand our rate of death by firearms, including by accident, is 9 per million people…..
The blood soaked dystopia I was talking about was the world at large, but even if you was only talking about New Zealand, I think the outrage in Christchurch means we also are living through a dystopian blood soaked nightmare. A blood soaked nightmare that is and has been the reality for many globally.
Even if New Zealand’s background rate of gun violence is low, I made it clear that ‘Gun Free New Zealand’ would be an inspirational message of hope for world. If we can create a gun free society, why couldn’t others.
New Zealand is Nuclear Weapons Free by law. Though we probably never had nuclear weapons here in the first place, the point was, if we can be nuclear weapons free, so can other countries.
Keep Calm says this ‘Virtue Signalling’. But when did virtue become a crime?
The whole point of being good, or ‘virtuous’ is that you are signalling that you expect and trust that others, will be kind and virtuous in return..
I want to signal to the world that a whole country can be gun free. What’s wrong with that?
– the favourite cliche from Charlton Heston and the NRA.
It beggars belief anyone would think that phrase would find favour on a progressive forum.
Geez;
That bee certainly looks desperate to get out of that bonnet there.
Right wingers have even less reason than left wingers to protest. What makes me proud is the youth who protest against climate change have every right to say fuck your guns nig.
IAIN I always find what you say really interesting!
….and wish you hadnt been banned off the page
Maybe it was just too interesting!….and too true…think on that
( I keep swearing I will leave this site so maybe I will get banned too…in fact I am surprised I havent been…smiley face)
Count me in. Good position piece from you Pat
That’s two people. I just need another 300,000 names and a $500 filing fee.
https://www.parliament.nz/en/get-involved/have-your-say/seek-a-referendum/
Yes Martyn I thoroughly agree
we are in the eye of PSYOPS
I can take no pride in this.
+100 REMORRIS …yes I tend to agree and as a consequence all sorts of ‘framing’ blame games and conspiracies will abound
…especially with the NZ government imposing 10-14 years imprisonment for having his manifesto for a look at ..for our own protection mind…just in case we get corrupted and become mass murderers ourselves ( do we now live in a nanny police state now?…and not a democracy?…certainly seemed like that on Friday with armed police and road blocks on every second corner in Christchurch )
https://www.counterpunch.org/2019/03/22/reading-manifestos-restricting-brenton-tarrants-the-great-replacement/
In actual fact according to secondary sources mind you…(because i dont want to go to jail)
Tarrant states “The nation with the closest political and social values to my own is the People’s Republic of China.” ( ?….I kid you not!)
https://www.thenewamerican.com/world-news/europe/item/31759-christchurch-shooter-praises-communist-china-condemns-conservatism-and-capitalism-media-call-him-a-trump-supporter
https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/new-zealand-shooting-manifesto-brenton-tarrant-china-a8835671.html
In the meantime in the absence of any manifesto we have to put up with crap from the mainstream media who are jumping on the bandwagon of white male = bad= white supremacist = Nazi = Hitlerite = mass murderer
Case in point the Christchurch Press has come up with this wee gem ‘The Religion of Supremacy’:
… poor long suffering traumatised victimised Christchurch residents have to put up with this anti white male pathetic article from the Christchurch Press which is pointing the finger at a small group of innocent local Thor nature worshipers as fitting the description of ‘white male supremacists’ and by association Nazi Hitlerites and mass murderers….
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/christchurch-shooting/111537465/how-a-strange-thorworshipping-religion-is-linked-to-the-christchurch-mosque-shootings
There are several point to be made here:
1. the Scandinavian pagans ( like the Maori pagans )treated women exceptionally well and as equals and they were not supremacists, either by virtue of being male or race…..unlike the patriarchal misogynistic monotheistic racist religious traditions of OT Judaism, OT Christianity, and Islam, who lorded it over women and pagans…and other races of other peoples not their own ( the NOT Chosen of the great male God the Almighty)
2. Scandinavian paganism came historically well before Hitler ( we shouldnt have to say this, but we will for dumbies)….and if Hitler was impressed by some of it this Scandinavian old religion paganism …this does not logically mean that Scandinavian paganism is responsible for Hitler and Nazism….likewise Thor worshipers while having pride in their religion are not white male supremacists or racists necessarily and nor are they causative or responsible for mass murderers or mass murders
3. Hitler was brought up a Catholic and his right hand man and adviser was a Catholic priest who wrote Mein Kampf ( fact)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernhard_Stempfle
https://www.theguardian.com/books/2014/mar/06/pope-mussolini-secret-history-rise-fascism-david-kertzer-review
https://www.reddit.com/r/RomeRules/comments/3xiemo/mein_kampf_was_not_written_by_hitler_but_by_a/
( if I were a Christchurch white male I would cancel my subscription to the Christchurch Press for racial and religious hatred and encouraging hatred of white males and branding them as ‘white supremacists’
…I would also reconsider my membership of the Green Party….because the Greens seem to think all white males are potentially white racist supremacists and have this potential to become mass murderers)
One thing we can say for sure ….Tarrant was not home grown. He may be a madman, but he was certainly framed and formed by places and cultures outside New Zealand
Lets hope Jacinda also carries her brand of non racism to foreign policy critiques of Israel and its racist genocidal treatment of the Palestinians and into other countries which oppose it…and Saudi Arabia and its racist genocidal treatment of the people of Yemen….and USA for its genocidal racist foreign policy ( far more than 50 people killed here)
RB:
1. You’ve never indicated you support the Green Party. In fact, you deride them. But you have indicated support for Winston Peters and NZ First.
2. I have yet to see any indication that the “Greens seem to think all white males are potentially white racist supremacists and have this potential to become mass murderers”.
At ‘best’ that allegation is hyperbole. At worst, wilful mis-representation.
RB;
Have only just caught up with your links here.
Had a few troubles of my own.
Brilliant stuff.
And that Stuff article, agree entirely.
That bloody Andrea Vance of ‘Key hair pulling Fame.’
Just endorses why MSM is toxic and poisons the brain.
Haven’t read a newspaper in years.
Vindicates my opinion of you above. Excellent.
Cheers.
We were both right about NZF last election, aye?
Against the wind.
Sorry Martyn. I’m getting a bit sick of the bash a baby boomer routine.
Correlation is not causation
That’s easy to say but not back up.
+100…I agree with you ANN ROBERTS…and this is very much a Green Party thing…
Let me spell it out for you. Most of the people I call “woke” are the kind of people who want equality by taking away the rights of others. They’re usually hypocrites and douchebags that decry an activity in one post then perpetuate the same activity in another. They dehumanize their opponents more than their opponents do, and they think they can get away with anything “for the greater good”.
I want to clarify that woke is not a political stance. It’s a behavior. An attitude. One that does more harm in political and ethical discourse than good, with the expected result is either a hugbox/echo chamber or other reasons to catch feelings.
For people with more liberal viewpoints surrounding equality I call that egalitarianism.
Amen Sam
I am a 71 year old Pakeha from Christchurch. I watched a video of the National Remembrance event (I was doing essential volunteer work during the time of the service) and completely agree with your analysis Martyn.
I also felt proud of the participation and leadership that Ngai Tahu has provided in support of the victims and the community since this appalling atrocity occurred.
The support offered by this Iwi is consistent with the generosity many Iwi give to the victims of life changing events such as earthquakes and fires.
The integration of Maori Tikanga into the Remembrance service helped give the event a distinctive Kiwi flavour that we should all be proud of.
It was a nice touch to read the forgotten verse of the National Anthem. That verse sums it up really – NZ a country for all races and creeds
+1 Andy
Blu-rry good moment, Martyn. I would lop off –say, my left hand for it not to have happened. It made us all think, rather than judge. I’m encountering a lot of small scale racism — if my racist Jewish customer says something vaguely human about it it has penetrated.
I think the best of this government for the rising minimum wage, but dislike’m for the budget responsibility rules and not raising benefits. Here in my town we could become a community rather than a plantation economy. Random stabbings last night. What is that place in the Bay of Plenty where the PM came from but no one now dares stop?
Have to agree with this post.
I’m not a big fan of Jacinda, but we have to give credit where credit is due.
I drove past the Muslim centre in Onehunga the other day, saw the masses of floral and other tributes, and a sign saying “Kia Kaha”.
For the first time in my life I think, and spontaneously I was almost teary eyed over something that was political, and not personal. Perhaps because this horrific event has been made so personal.
Well done New Zealand, and let’s keep the momentum and transmute this collective grief into something for long lasting good.
She’s actually a laughing stock overseas . New Zealand as a sovereign nation is done and dusted.
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