Our Chinese Overlords are angry!
New Zealand’s tourism industry is facing backlash following rocky relationship with China
China is turning up the heat on New Zealand, threatening our booming tourism industry will take a lashing on the back of the Huawei saga.An article published in the English version of China’s People’s Daily newspaper suggests New Zealand has fallen out of favour with Chinese travellers.
The paper, regarded as the mouthpiece for the Chinese government, quotes a traveller who saved more than $3200 to come to New Zealand but cancelled his plans.
“Is it a kind of robbery? New Zealand stabbed us in the back but asks for our money? This is double-faced,” a Beijing-based worker told the Global Times.
Wait, you mean China will stop over loading our groaning infrastructure with their tourists?
You mean those Chinese tourists who walk straight onto buses owned by Chinese businesses that operate the spaces they go to and the Chinese restaurants they eat at which we’ve just tolerated for the sake of meaningless and rarely ever seen by the locals ‘economic growth’?
YAY! Less Tourists taking up more of our infrastructure that has been so poorly planned for that we can barely use it our selves!
THIS IS A WIN!
Can we now also get China to stop buying all our bloody milk powder which in turn will stop incentivising our greedy corporate farmers from polluting our rivers?
And after we have stopped our greedy corporate farmers from polluting out waters for intensive dairy farming can we finally get the bloody Chinese out from stealing our fresh water fro their bottling plants?
Our Chinese Overlords are angry – we should have angered them a lot sooner!
If we have finished angering China, can we start pissing off America please?
On the money, Martyn.
Most of the Chinese are just here on shopping trips for NZ land and assets.. so looking forward to an easing off on congestion, pollution and overseas assets sales…
Can we anger other government’s too… also tired of the violence and crimes against women as for whatever reason our governments preferred choices of new residents seem to be from countries that have poorer rights and violence against women statistically…
We already have a family violence issue in NZ, why the hell do we need more of the same. you can actually apply for permanent residency in NZ on the basis of being in a abusive relationship here…
… also tired of the violence and crimes against women as for whatever reason our governments preferred choices of new residents seem to be from countries that have poorer rights and violence against women statistically…
What a load of bollocks. Crime rates in Asia in almost all categories are far lower than that in NZ. Go to any part of Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, you will see women walking the streets at night with absolutely no fear at all.
In NZ Asian crime rates are about one fifth the caucasian crime rate, and rates for violent and sexual crimes about one third the caucasian crime rate.
https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/praise-asian-migrants-how-crime-rates-compare-ck-140969
So the best way to drop the crime rate? Increase the Asian percentage of the population
More racial superiority crap from the brain washed.
No race has a monopoly on crime, but a totalitarian regime can instigate injustice on a massive scale:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-02-14/leta-hong-fincher-on-feminism-in-china/10810826
Also where is our methamphetamine coming from?
What injustice — that article is just a narrative that some ultra feminist write has dreamed up. Is the Chinese government actually forcing women to have children? Of course not.
As for the crime stats, they are not made up, they are from the NZ governments own statistics and they mirror what is the case overseas. East Asians, in particular, have extremely low crime rates across all categories, aside from gambling.
Methamphetamine? They shoot drug traffickers in China. So I don’t know what your point is, aside from the fact that some criminal importers are Chinese. Nothing to do with the Chinese government.
And mentioning narcotics shows your ignorance. The Anglo Saxon race is the greatest purveyor of illicit drugs in the entire history of the world, and came rich off forcing drugs at gunpoint down the throats of the Chinese. That’s how the anglo-saxon world, including New Zealand, became rich in the first place.
Fentanyl crisis: Is China a major source of illegal drugs?
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-45564744
Drug seizures soar in China; most suspects are ‘farmers and unemployed’
https://www.latimes.com/world/asia/la-fg-drugs-china-meth-ice-20160218-story.html
opium poppies from Afghanistan. Who benefits from the proceeds of this little scheme? Not the Chinese that’s for sure.
“The root of female infanticide is different in India than it is in China. In both cultures, there is a preference for male children. However, unlike China, there is no government organization limiting the number of children a family can have. In India the constraint is mostly economic—daughters will require a sizable financial dowry in order to marry. Because daughters leave their families of origin, they are often regarded as temporary members of their families and a drain on its wealth. There is an expression in India that “bringing up a daughter is like watering a neighbor’s plant” (Anderson & Moore, 1993).
The dowry, theoretically illegal under the Dowry Prohibition Act of 1961, is a significant and pervasive theme . Although a law passed in September 1994 prohibits the use of amniocentesis and sonogram tests for sex determination, they are widely used for this purpose and many female fetuses are terminated (U.S. Department of State, 1998). Advertisements in India for ultrasound clinics urge couples to spend “500 rupees today to save 50,000 rupees tomorrow” (World Vision, 1994, p.4). Washington Post reporters Anderson and Moore (1993) report that at one clinic in Bombay, of 8,000 abortions performed after amniocentesis, 7,999 were of female fetuses.”
http://www.domesticviolenceservices.com/female-infanticide.html
“Introduced in 1979, China’s one-child policy set a limit on the number of children parents could have. Because parents preferred sons, the incidence of sex-selective abortions and female infanticide substantially increased.[30] This has led to male overpopulation in China; in 2005, men under age 20 outnumbered women by more than 32 million.[30]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_inequality_in_China
Crime ‘rates’ are dependent on official statistics…if none are kept then none are officially reported in China or Asia…however there are other indications of misogyny
https://www.washingtonpost.com/graphics/2018/world/too-many-men/?utm_term=.213bed89e5fa
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/short-reads/article/2044770/female-infanticide-dark-side-chinas-obsession
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/30/researchers-may-have-found-many-of-chinas-30-million-missing-girls/?utm_term=.4754b3275de4
We are talking of crime rates in Western countries.
Asians are by far the most law abiding group.
Crime statistics not reported in China or ‘Asia’. What about Japan and Taiwan and Hong Kong? ”Asia’ is a big place —or are you one of those ignoramuses who thinks ‘Asian’ is a language?
East Asians have almost zero representation when it comes to crimes of a sexual nature or crimes among children.
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/asia-pacific/japan-s-crime-problem-too-many-police-not-enough-criminals-1.3451997
One of the articles you linked to show that the 30 million ‘missing’ girls are likely not missing.
Ever wonder why paedophiles and child porn afficianados tend to be white?
For what ever reason Asian or migrant criminals seems to get lighter sentences in NZ (woke reverse racism???).
NZ no questions asked residency in 2 -4 years seems perfect for criminals to come here, note, you have to wonder how robust is the ‘good character’ investigation into NZ residency by NZ immigration because we seem to have more than our share of criminals who are new to the country.
Perhaps if new residents had to wait 10 years with more detailed investigation into their activities before they are allowed to call themselves a Kiwi might be the quick and easy answer to our attraction for migrant criminals…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12005146
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11842563
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/82387108/did-fraud-suspect-joanne-harrison-approve-her-own-leave-then-flee-nz
https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/365583/punjabi-singer-gets-home-detention-for-drivers-licences-bribes
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12077932
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11905478
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/business/news/article.cfm?c_id=3&objectid=12011961
http://www.raggededgemagazine.com/departments/news/000564.html
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/84891031/Child-abuser-wins-right-to-stay-in-New-Zealand-for-humanitarian-reasons
Economic crime seems to get lower sentences for migrants and inexplicably when you look at the fines they seem less than the amount stolen so not sure what message that is sending? Commit more crimes here, maybe, corruption ok in NZ and an acceptable way to make some extra cash?
There is racism in our justice system, and those with the most money seem to be able to get more access to ‘justice’ than others… We see that with Maori and Jail times and as Pakeha get poorer they too will start filling up the jails…
In NZ the media don’t generally report the ethnicity of criminals here, but for example recently convicted murder Rohit Singh was a NZ citizen/permanent resident he was also a Fijian citizen and ethnically probably identified as Asian but legally according to the links he is able to be a Fijian and NZ citizen by the sounds of it.. so now NZ taxpayers pay for this murderer to spend the rest of his life in prison and then NZ taxpayers will then have to pay his pension and health care at the end of it.
So the ‘statistics’ are easily skewed to say that Asians are the most law abiding group, but dig a bit deeper and find out that they are prosecuted as other nationalities as the world’s most populous countries have so many nationals who have multiple residencies, identities and claim other Nationalities…
https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/crime/110581372/obsessive-exboyfriend-rohit-singh-sentenced-to-life-in-prison-for-murder-of-arishma-chand
https://fijisun.com.fj/2019/02/14/former-fiji-resident-gets-life-imprisonment-for-murder-in-new-zealand/
https://www.fbcnews.com.fj/news/trial-of-former-fiji-citizen-alleged-of-murder-begins-in-nz/
(allegedly the victims parents from Fiji are also trying to get NZ citizenship too and have engaged an immigration lawyer to stay in NZ even though their daughter was not a NZ citizen, so now even victims of crimes here can apply for citizenship in NZ on that grounds, while I have extreme sympathy for their situation not sure getting residency and setting that precedent of post crime residency, is a good idea).
Sorry but fuck you are a stupid cunt.
(That was directed at Mark)
Howzit going there, Marama?
Got any more vocab expanding lessons for us ?
(If not, why not ?)
Lol, Marama is the Green Party member who is the focus of the CCP’s United Front influence operation.
Fuck no arguments?
@Mark, maybe do a bit of research and widen your field of ‘Asia’ … no doubt the woke left believe everyone in the world has the same customs as them which is statistically not the case …
“Dowry violence
Anti-dowry poster in Bangalore, India
The custom of dowry, which is common in South Asia, especially in India, is the trigger of many forms of violence against women. Bride burning is a form of violence against women in which a bride is killed at home by her husband or husband’s family due to his dissatisfaction over the dowry provided by her family. Dowry death refers to the phenomenon of women and girls being killed or committing suicide due to disputes regarding dowry. Dowry violence is common in India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Nepal. In India, in 2011 alone, the National Crime Records Bureau reported 8,618 dowry deaths, while unofficial figures suggest the numbers to be at least three times higher.[100]
Acid throwing, also called acid attack, or vitriolage, is defined as the act of throwing acid onto the body of a person “with the intention of injuring or disfiguring [them] out of jealousy or revenge”.[110] The most common types of acid used in these attacks are sulfuric, nitric, or hydrochloric acid.[111] Perpetrators of these attacks throw acid at their victims, usually at their faces, burning them, and damaging skin tissue, often exposing and sometimes dissolving the bones.[112] The long term consequences of these attacks include blindness and permanent scarring of the face and body.[113][114] Women and girls are the victims in 75-80% of cases.[115] Acid attacks are often connected to domestic disputes, including dowry disputes, and refusal of a proposition for marriage, or of sexual advances. Such attacks are common in South Asia, in countries such as Bangladesh, Pakistan, India; and in Southeast Asia, especially in Cambodia.[116]
Dating abuse or dating violence is the perpetration of coercion, intimidation or assault in the context of dating or courtship. It is also when one partner tries to maintain abusive power and control. Dating violence is defined by the CDC as “the physical, sexual, psychological, or emotional violence within a dating relationship, including stalking”.[125] In some countries it is common for older men to engage in “compensated dating” with underage girls. Such relationships are called enjo kōsai in Japan, and are also common in Asian countries such as Taiwan, South Korea, Hong Kong. The WHO condemned “economically coerced sex (e.g. school girls having sex with “sugar daddies” (Sugar baby in return for school fees)” as a form of violence against women.[7]”
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Violence_against_women
@Mark, Immigration marriage and dowry scams on the rise, says charity
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12123831
Can’t find the link, but there is also the Chinese man who managed to impregnated multiple asian women at the same time in NZ (presumably that come up when the women applied for social welfare) but apparently still got residency in NZ because he is rich! I guess concubine comebacks or STD’s are not a worry here in NZ and we welcome more babies being born with our midwife and education shortages
And speaking of our education system and who it is attracting…
Confessions of a sugar baby: The NZ women who accept gifts for dates
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/lifestyle/news/article.cfm?c_id=6&objectid=12153389
Not sure if these situations are a step forward for women’s rights and feminism here in NZ.. sarcasm.
Come on SAVENZ: where is the evidence of Asians in NZ being overrepresented in crimes against woman?
One thing we can be sure of. Paedophiles and child porn downloaders are invariably white.
I like the way you Segwayed into “increase Asian population makes everything all better.” Made my day.
As long as secound generation immigrants learn to speak English as the working language while retaining there native language. I couldn’t care less where they come from really.
Have posted some links to support my statement. But they have not appeared yet.
My view is that NZ already has significant issues with violence against women and the women’s refugees are full. Why we are encouraging immigration from countries that are even higher in suicide and women’s violence to settle here, and not actually check the suitability of new residents in a robust way is beyond me???
Maybe having that cheap worker in the fields or Burger King or relatives settling here, no questions asked or some cash for a retirement home is worth it, it the eyes of our immigration laws???
Sadly like our dodgy degrees our ease-to-residency is not doing our international reputation any good when criminals are coming here and calling themselves Kiwis on paper in a few years!
I’m not against immigration from Asia, I’m against the lack of robustness in our immigration system and the speed in which any tom dick or harry can gain themselves a Kiwi passport or permanent residency with few checks or interest in their characters which is easy to mask with only a 2 – 5 year wait.
If any lies or omissions are found on residency applications then the immigration does not take away the NZ residency or NZ passport so therefore encouraging people to lie to live here which is at epidemic proportions.
If we had a few outspoken artists, writers, poets and pro democracy protesters who get granted NZ residency from Asia I would be all for it, but instead our immigration preference is for Subway fast food managers and aged relatives to come here from Asia…
Come on SaveNZ, where is your evidence that Asians, Chinese in particular are involved in crimes against women in new Zealand any more than your Caucasian white new zealander? I’m fact you have nothing. The opposite is true, the sexual crime rate in new Zealand of Asians is about 1/4 the Caucasian rate, I have provided the link in another post
In this study 80% of the ‘Asian’ women were facing violence were NZ citizens or permanent residents, some of whom had been married in pre arranged marriages.
We are importing in family violence issues by our no questions family category and 80% of the asian women were NZ citizens and permanent residents, thus the reporting of crimes tends to be in NZ on residency status or citizenship status NOT ethnicity. This is one rare study into Asian’s coming to NZ but are citizens or permanent residents.
The reality it is incredibly easy for any Tom, dick or Harry to enter NZ these days and legally call themselves a Kiwi after a very short time in the country and somehow get residency, even if they don’t speak the language, were not born here, never worked here, don’t even want to be here in some cases, and our government seems ok with that and now our criminal and social system is starting to fill up with these issues which are statistically entered as Kiwi citizens.
Time there is at least 10 years and a real investigation into people’s affairs including their character and beliefs as well as their ability to tax taxes and not be a burden on NZ citizens who actually work in NZ and have plenty of social issues of our own to overcome but now being diluted with more and more offshore issues being introduced into NZ and just ignored by NZ authorities and government!
…almost 30% of participants came to New Zealand in the family category (e.g. joining their parents, and some women, according to the interview data, entered into a pre-arranged marriage relationship); 80% of participants were citizens or permanent residents in New Zealand.
Family Violence in Asian Communities, Combining Research and Community Development
https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/journals-and-magazines/social-policy-journal/spj31/31-family-violence-in-asian-communities-pages170-194.html
No surprises here.
Anne-Marie Brady break-ins: Police investigation hits dead end
An investigation into a burglary and other incidents reported by prominent China critic Anne-Marie Brady is unresolved and police say they have no further lines of enquiry.
Anne-Marie Brady Anne-Marie Brady Photo: Supplied
Canterbury University professor Anne-Marie Brady has said her office has been broken into twice, her house burgled, her car tampered with and she has received a threatening letter after she published a paper on the influence of the Chinese Communist Party in the Pacific.
“Professor Brady has reported a number of incidents which have occurred since late 2017 including a burglary at her home, two break-ins at her university office, damage to her vehicle, and a series of anonymous phone calls,” Detective Superintendent Stu Allsop-Smith said.
“Police have taken these incidents very seriously and a lengthy, detailed and extensive investigation has been conducted.
“This has involved all necessary police resources including detailed forensic analysis, interviews and expert advice.
“The burglaries and other matters reported remain unresolved at this time.”
Mr Allsop-Smith said at this point there were no further lines of enquiry to pursue unless new information became available.
“Any new information will be carefully assessed to determine what, if any, evidential relevance it may have,” he said in a statement.
Police and the university would continue to provide her with updated advice, including security advice if required, and maintain an active response plan, Mr Allsop-Smith said.
It’s been suggested that Prof Brady’s difficulties may originate elsewhere, like from a country interested in demonising China in the Pacific region, a country with hands-on experience in interfering in other countries’ politics and economies.
Tourists and milk ? Well, we shouldn’t have put so many eggs in two baskets…but you know, this could lead to a regeneration of our once pristine countryside, and a savouring of the pleasure of silences in the beech forests… and respecting the sleeping gods in the mountains.
?…”regeneration of our once pristine countryside, and a savouring of the pleasure of silences in the beech forests…”
I think NOT!….you been to China?…it is an ecological and over populated disaster….and what it has done to Tibet’s sacred environment is criminal
https://www.equaltimes.org/china-s-water-grab-in-tibet-risks#.XGcjTeQzapo
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Chinese-mining-causing-environmental-disasters-in-Tibet-15614.html
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/aug/07/tibets-fragile-ecosystem-is-in-danger-china-must-change-its-flawed-environmental-policy
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/asia_pacific/tibetans-in-anguish-as-chinese-mines-pollute-their-sacred-grasslands/2016/12/25/bb6aad06-63bc-11e6-b4d8-33e931b5a26d_story.html?noredirect=on&utm_term=.e2ae3819c9d3
http://unfft.org/tibetan-environment/
What I am saying Red B, is that NZ may benefit from having fewer tourists; our primary obligation is to the earth, not to people, any people. I am responding specifically to concerns that Chinese tourists may drop off, and milk sales to China may fall, and I am seeing this as not necessarily negative.
Frequently I regard tourism as prostituting the country, I am enormously ambivalent to tourism, and have I trouble reconciling this with having spent time travelling and working in other places myself.
And when I say that NZ may benefit from having fewer tourists, I am not talking economics, and I am not talking about Chinese either, I don’t like any sort of ethnic bashing.
well I am pleased you are concerned about the environment …and I also would be happy if Chinese tourism and milk sales fell
Well Red B, had you actually read what I initially wrote, I would not have had to be womansplaining it to you again, and you would not have had to wait so long for me to please you, Red B.
And if you stop making assumptions about everyone else’s state of knowledge, and wisdom, and experience, and footprints, then I will try not to assume that you, Red B, are a bit of a racist jerk.
wow you have shown your true colours!…so I was right in my first comment to you
…you are the one trying to give a false impression
Red B -I think you might be my mother, responding to what I didn’t say again –
Hi Mum
Same old. Same old.
lol
I am as much your mother as I have a daughter called Judith
the forest is silent because DOC killed every thing with 1080
And then there are the facts…
http://www.1080facts.co.nz/facts-and-figures.html
And that coment from you, Rickoshay, is why I give zero credence to anything uttered by anti1080 cultists.
If only i’d listened to her (my former professor) before I went into business with them.
If your alleged experience had any skerrick of truth to it, China would not be our major export market (taking 25% of our exports), and New Zealand would have an unemployment rate of the same 25%
You simply don’t understand how the Chinese do business. They go for the top 20 percent of an industry they will be interested in and will treat the higher-ups in their target percentage very well. They essentially do G2B not B2B, even though the former is often fronted. Trying to operate as a free business person and engage with them is another story.
80 percent of methamphetamine precursors came from mainland China until a “joint task” effort by the New Zealand and Chinese police “cracked down”; the latter shifting export of their illegal drugs to Triad crime centre Vancouver, whose housing market, incidentally, has been priced out by the Chinese criminals the CCP is happy to have laundering money and exporting drugs for them overseas, so long as it benefits the Middle Kingdom.
The idea of entering into a Fair Trade Agreement with China was always a ridiculous notion and now they are showing themselves to be happy to breach any principles and punish New Zealand severely for deciding against one of that country’s companies in an open tender for infrastructure services. This is totally unacceptable and we need to ramp up trade with partners like Britain (thank God for Brexit) immediately.
We also need to deploy our Navy to protect our territorial integrity and our resources. Failing that anyone who criticizes the UK’s recent announcement of sending ships to the Pacific is a suicidal fool.
If there is any benefit culturally or otherwise to this period it will be the complete and utter end to the glib and historically inaccurate neo-Marxist trash that we are being forced to swallow on a daily basis which is quite clearly designed to weaken and divide us as similar rhetoric was during the Bolshevik terrors of the early 20th Century.
+100 HEINRICK…re “The idea of entering into a Fair Trade Agreement with China was always a ridiculous notion ..” (naive in the EXTREME)
…it would have been far better for agricultural trade to have had an agreement with Russia…but the jonkey Nacts snubbed Russia and cultivated China for their own personal benefit
You sure have a funny idea of what open tender means. Uncle Sam doesnt usually get to decide who participates…
You sound like a cheerleader for the random Guaido. Most of that type has been recognised in Venezuela as the traitors they are.
Anyone trying to instill fear over the very minor Chinese reactions that have occurred so far and use them as a reason to sell our sovereignty to USA deserves contempt. Donald Trump and his ilk may inspire you but most of us can see it for the delusional self interest that it is.
We pissed off the Yanks and the French in the mid 80s. Now the Chinese. Russians next? God knows Russian oligarchs have bought up chunks of our best land. They can piss off to.
the whole lot of them can piss of
As China is so miffed with NZ, I take it the Chinese government will also stop families moving here, bringing their non English speaking aged parents with them, who get all the benefits of superannuation, Super Gold Card, health care etc? Then the families move back to China, leaving the old parents in NZ!
No more Chinese tourists coming, so no more aged Chinese parents to take advantage of NZ’s social welfare system. Fair enough!
I love how China thinks it can blackmail or bully sovereign nations into doing what it wants, and there’s not going to be any comeback. We’re small, but we’re feisty. How about we shut down your water bottling plants and you can stop flogging our natural resources? Thanks, National, for cultivating a relationship with China that borders on incestuous in order to line your own pockets.
I have to agree with this one Bomber, people who try to label anti-China discussion as racist miss the point. It is not race, it is culture, and the culture that China teaches is not pleasant (infinite leader etc.) The sooner Aotearoa can redefine itself as an independent country the better, let the “super powers” quibble amongst themselves and let’s work in conjuction with our Pacific family to create a strong Oceania where the big shots don’t call the shots.
“Its not race its culture”.
Thats hilarious. I nearly choked. Mathew quite candidly admitting hes racist and doesnt even realise it!!
Fine, everyone is racist. North East Asians seem to have a 5000 year history of it apparently.
The issues that he raises though are correct.
We have not done NZ any benefits by claiming that anyone who disagrees with China or those who practice a communist authoritarian political system are racist.
The long-term thinking on this should be quite simple.
If every single negotiation with this party carries with it a risk big enough to be a threat to every other negotiation with them, historically and in the future, then trading with them is not advisable and alternative trading partners should be sought.
Turning back our planes, throttling the flow of tourism, and stopping our exports at port are all very egregious breaches to any FTA we may have with them, which, given these unilateral actions, makes any FTA agreement not worth the paper it is written on.
I myself have sat in a room with Chinese businessmen backed by the CCP, for the purpose of signing a contract. While looking over the agreement, they informed me that any business dispute that didn’t go their way ended up with the other party being arrested.
I told them to shove the contract up their arse and walked out. NZ should do the same.
While looking over the agreement, they informed me that any business dispute that didn’t go their way ended up with the other party being arrested.
I told them to shove the contract up their arse and walked out. NZ should do the same.
That.Sounds.Highly.Unbelievable
Entirely believable!…Go ask the Tibetans…”a land of beggars”…this is Chinese business
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EVljPPDq3XA
( Most New Zealanders are SO naive about China…they have never been there or to Tibet)
How come? Have you run a business in Asia? Did you live in multiple countries for nearly a decade, like I did? Have you ever done business with Chinese business people from Hong Kong or Mainland China or Malaysia or Indonesia or Thailand or Cambodia, like I have? What’s the basis for your skepticism?
Actually that does not sound unlikely at all.
A contract is what western person wants. If it does not benefit us then it needs to be ignored or renegotiated.
I have heard very similar points myself.
To be honest I imagine a lot of the Chinese who come to here to live / buy real estate / come here on holiday are the same pricks who have profited by destroying their own environment back in China while the poor bastards who didn’t are left to deal with the consequences – would be more than happy if they all went home.
What the fuck is it with the corporate media?
Fran O’Sullivan seems to have no concept of sovereignty and Barry Soper, being a bitchy whiny arse ever since his Visa to the US was cancelled, has none either.
If it wasn’t Huawei it would some other contrived incident. To be fair robberies happen, the police are understaffed and our driving is poor, exacerbated by foreign drivers. All valid criticism but I don’t fancy my chances in respect of the same issues in China, that’s for sure
We gave the Chinese government legitimacy doing a free trade deal, we gave them our trust and that is priceless for them to hold up to others in the world of business but now it looks like we are in a relationship with a gang whose tactics are pure underworld.
Does this mean no more money laundering from their end through us, no more absentee landlords, no more water exploitation,, no more psuedoephedrine, I bloody hope so!
I don’t much fancy the US government but compared to the Chinese the American people are okay with me.
Umm
If the Chinese are overlords, pray tell; What have the Americans been?
Empires die.
The French found this to be true following Dien Bien Phu (Vietnam) and Algeria. Oh! and the 6 weeks it took Germany to conquer France in 1940.
The British found this to be true after Dunkirk, Singapore and Kenya (Mau Mau).
Russia and China are now in the process of proving that the incumbent Emperor (Uncle Sam), has fewer and fewer clothes.
As the Roman’s found, so to will China, but at the moment, if the objective of our government is to create an environment where employment may flourish (and the down stream effects), I reckon its not a good idea to kick sand in the face of the emerging Emperor.
Your foolish mistake is to look at all empires or pretenders to it as potential equal partners.
It’s lovely that our culture promotes that, at least internally, in respect of the people of different origins that come in.
But you are very naive if you think those foreign powers are so lovey-dovey in respect of the existing population here. They are not. And Tangata Whenua won’t get any special treatment either.
Idiot. We are part of the British, American and to an extent French empire.
And you’ll realize that quite painfully when we can no longer call on them.
No I’m not. You white people my be though. My ancestors came from Taiwan.
I wrote this in 2016, but in 2019 it is as relevant as ever. It is something that bothers me quite a bit working in a related sector.
I have no problems with Chinese tourists coming. The ones I have met have been nice, polite and as far as this non-Mandarin speaker could tell, were having a great time here.
But the numbers that are coming over is not sustainable. Unless we have a major overhaul of how we deal with tourists, New Zealand is going to do major damage to itself.
So in a perverse way, I sort of welcome any cooling down of the market.
Yeah let’s all give it to the Chinese. We don’t need their money. After all, all they do is buy our land and assets.
The disgusting xenophobia on this site is embarrassing. But I guess the Chinese have always been our *niggas* since they first arrived here. Yeah lets just trade with people who look and act like us. A lot further to send whatever it is we think we’re going to sell them but who cares about the carbon footprint of doing trade with the Europeans.
The Tibetans are just one minority group under the jurisdiction of China which are victimised , oppressed and second class citizens to the majority grossly over populated Han Chinese, who have invaded and plundered Tibet
…so don’t cry victimisation and “xenophobia” and *niggas*…and try and play the guilt trip card…you will only fool the gullible woke and ignorant
https://www.freetibet.org/
https://freetibet.org/about/china-argument
https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-24/new-book-documents-china-s-exploitation-tibet-s-natural-resources
The XXXX are just one minority group under the jurisdiction of Anglo Saxons are which are victimised, oppressed, and second class citizens to the majority grossly over populated Anglo Saxon race, who have invaded and plundered the entire world.
“XXXX”…you don’t mean Maori do you?…nothing in comparison to what has happened to the Tibetans…genocide of 1.2 million Tibetans…and on- going oppression culturally , environmentally , spiritually and politically
( For the Tibetans no human rights equivalent Treaty of Waitangi ( which both Maori Chiefs and Pakeha European leaders signed) …many New Zealanders have Maori ancestry although they look European /Pakeha …there are many Maori political leaders eg. Simon Bridges the Leader of the Opposition is Maori; Winston Peters the leader of NZFirst; Marama Davidson the co-leader of the Greens is a Maori and there are numerous Maori MPs…not to mention people like John Tamihere….and we share a love of our natural environment and we havent over-populated !)
https://www.voanews.com/a/tibetan-monk-tortured-for-3-decades-in-china-s-prisons-dies/4682027.html
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/13/self-immolation-and-chinas-state-cult-of-stability-tibet-monks-dalai-lama/
http://www.thetibetpost.com/en/outlook/opinions-and-columns/4533-genocide-in-the-20th-century-massacres-in-tibet-1966-76
https://freetibet.org/about/china-argument
Divide and Rule card?…Chinese playing race card in New Zealand?!…Nice try! (only the gullible and woke ignorant will be taken in by this one)
So we’re going to talk about genocide are we? How about the 10 million indigenous peoples in the USA who died at the hands of the colonisers/oppressors,
The 27 million Russuans who died defeating the German army
The 15 million Chinese who died during that same war
The 500,000 children who died in Iraq because of sanctions not to mention the millions who have died in the illegal war instigated by the great Western powers
The millions more who died in Wars perpetrated by those same Western powers, all vassal states of the great USA super power- of which our membership in 5 eyes makes us a certain ally. You want to talk about death? I could go on. A these deaths so you can now crow about the xxx Tibetians China is supposed to have killed. Figures based no doubt on some Westerner’s reporting of the situation there.
Listen to the Tibetans
Youre pathetic and all you can repeat is Tibet yet the Western Empire would have to list all the indigenous populations they encountered but hey since we look like them we’ll be ok. Empathy obviously not your strong suit
‘Whataboutery’ and a strawman in the same sentence. Congrats Spike – that’s a full house.
Just parroting “whataboutery” may seem like a good argument to you but its not . If you took the trouble to read the beginning of the thread you would see that RB was comparing the experiences of people from both western and eastern imperialism. I was just pointing out that western slaughter is not limited to Maori and he only seems to be able to use Tibetan experience against Chinese. The comparing was begun by RB so maybe you need a trip to Specsavers?
Leaving aside the irony of you accusing anyone else of “parroting”, why don’t you try another lame blame shift for this lot:
https://tibetpolicy.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Tibetocide.pdf
https://www.hrw.org/news/2018/07/29/china-crackdown-tibetan-social-groups
https://thediplomat.com/2017/08/china-tears-down-the-tibetan-city-in-the-sky/
http://www.asianews.it/news-en/Beijing-sends-a-new-flood-of-Han-migrants-to-Lhasa:-Tibetans-risk-disappearing-33294.html
https://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/25/world/asia/25tibet.html
Quick! Off you run now to Xinhua for your latest talking points…
Load of bollocks. The Tibetans thrived as part of China. Whereas the Maori population plummetted under Anglo Saxon domination and only in recent decades has started to recover.
Maoris in fact share far more in common with Chinese than they do with Anglo Saxons, racially, culturally, and with similarities in world view.
Not divide and conquer. The Chinese have every right to be suspicious of Anglo Saxons (Opium Wars, century of plunder etc). Afterall in the lifetime of my parents Anglo Saxons could murder Chinese in broad daylight in China, with total legal impunity. Have you heard of extraterritoriality?
The Anglo Saxons became wealthy off the backs of the non-Western world. Now the balance of power is shifting back towards the east, and that is just and right. But a lot of westerners are going to take some time to get use to it.
Culturally and spiritually the Maori and the American Indian actually have far more in common with the Tibetans
….like the Tibetans ,they are ecologically sensitive ( unlike the Han Chinese)
….they live in balance with nature and Mother Earth is considered to be sacred
….women are held in high regard
….like the Tibetans the Maori and the American Indian have never over-populated the land or trashed its waterways and forests and animals and fish
…males do not outnumber females ( currently there are 30 million plus more Chinese males to females, probably due to infanticide)
(I hope you are not one of those spoilt ignorant Chinese males surplus to China and with a sense of entitlement)
Oh FFS, I don’t think you should idealize any group and anymore than you should demonize any group.
China is actually not overpopulated – at least by the standard of Europe. Countries like Switzerland, Germany, Italy, Belgium, and the UK are far more densely populated than China.
China’s large population comes from the political unity of a disparate group of people over a huge land mass. Does not equate to overpopulation.
As for the Tibetans, the closest related group to them, both racially and linguistically and culturally are the Han Chinese.
Article on the Sino-Tibetan language family:
https://www.britannica.com/topic-browse/Society/Languages/Sino-Tibetan-languages
The Tibetans dont seem to be so keen on China or the Han Chinese invading their country, trashing their spirituality and environment…nor do surrounding countries to China which is taking their water from the Tibetan Plateau.
https://www.freetibet.org/about
https://www.freetibet.org/
https://tibet.net/2016/08/natural-disasters-in-tibet-is-it-the-new-normal/
https://www.equaltimes.org/china-s-water-grab-in-tibet-risks?lang=en#.XGhxiuQzapo
https://tibetpolicy.net/comments-briefs/brahmaputra-river-an-eternal-conflict-between-india-and-china/
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/09/27/chinas-mekong-plans-threaten-disaster-for-countries-downstream/
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2018-09-30/china-super-trawlers-overfishing-world-oceans/10317394
https://qz.com/948980/china-has-fished-itself-out-of-its-own-waters-so-chinese-fishermen-are-now-sticking-their-rods-in-other-nations-seas/
( China having ruined its own fisheries by over-population, over-fishing and damming rivers eg. the Yangtse ( the delta is ruined and so are the ocean fisheries surrounding the delta)
….China is now searching for new fisheries and ownership of harbours around the world
…it is likely our Southern Oceans are a prime target for Chinese exploitation?)
New Zealand BEWARE!
Tibet is part of China, so what the fuck are you talking of.
Tibet being part of China is recognised by every country in the world, New Zealand included.
There is ruling under international law, anyway, that says otherwise.
In fact the Americans recognised Tibet as part of China, explicitly in 1943, well before the communist triumph of 1949.
https://www.savetibet.org/policy-center/united-nations/
https://www.savetibet.org/policy-center/united-nations/un-general-assembly-resolutions/
https://news.un.org/en/story/2012/11/424662-china-must-urgently-address-rights-violations-tibet-un-senior-official
“The Tibetans thrived as part of China. ”
Rubbish.
When China invaded Tibet in 1950, Tibet’s population was 97% Tibetan and 3% Han Chinese. Tibet’s population now is 50% Tibetan and 50% Han Chinese.
That’s incontrovertible proof China that is using colonization and population transfer to annex Tibet – exactly the same as Israel has used illegal Jewish settlements to annex the West Bank from the Palestinians.
Err…. No… That’s incontrovertible proof, provided your stats are correct, if freedom of movement in China
What was the Maori percentage in nz at year 1900 compared to 1840?
What is the native American percentage, also for Australia?
Proof of Anglo saxo.n population transfer
My stats are correct Mark and you’ll have to do better than ‘whataboutery’ to explain China’s illegal annexation of Tibet.
What one single international or body or court or government does recognises China’s claim to Tibet as illegal?
Oh… that’s right, SimonM!
Really you are so full of faeces
Go visit Malaysia, Singapore, Australia, Canada and the United States then go visit a string of former colonies by non – Anglo Saxons and then let me know how that stands up.
Come on now are you saying those countries re better off because they were colonised by anglo Saxons? ask the Maori, aborigines, Native americans what they think.
Most New Zealanders don’t like the over populated Chinese buy up of their houses for a start
…We have a housing crisis here, or haven’t you noticed?
This shouldn’t happen in a small New Zealand population, that does not trash its environment or over-populate
…Maori are particularly affected by homeless, or hadn’t you noticed!
….so the sooner a big tax is put on overseas ownership of New Zealand’s housing, created by the last cronyist infiltrated Nact government, the better
Lots of talk about being tough and hard yet still no love for NZDF. That’s always been you problem buzzard. You are not tough and you are not hard.
you dont make much sense SAM
(troll disinformation and diversion all the time)… I have no beef with the NZDF, in fact I think we need them more than ever at the present time
…BUT why YOUR preoccupation with the NZDF?!…and what has that got to do with NZ housing?
…why all the talk about not being “tough” and “hard” enough ? (is this a threat?)
….and surely you are not covertly suggesting that our NZDF is not up to the task of defending NZ’s interests are you?…against whom?
…where exactly are your loyalties?
I do not presume to speak fo most New Zealanders, do you? Speaking on behalf of most New Zealanders with out a mandate is an extreme delusion of grandeur, don’t you think?
As for the rest of your dribble I’ll reply at the bottom
Glad you you could find the time to drop by TBD. Writing your weekly hagiography of Emporer Xi for the Blue Dragon newsletter must be quite time consuming. I guess the Chinese Embassy sees the baiting of any cheeky laowai who dare to question the authority of the motherland as being worthwhile.
China is only getting what’s coming to it for being a bully. As it’s about to find out, New Zealanders don’t like being bullied by bigger nations, especially ones with human rights records as dire as China’s. Both France and the US have been surprised in the past by the tenacity of New Zealanders in the face of injustice and unwarranted pressure.
China is stupid. It had New Zealand exactly where it wanted it. The National Party is in its pocket and is willing to put China’s interests above those of New Zealand citizens for cash. Chinese companies have had free reign in buying up New Zealand land and assets and bottle trillions of litres of New Zealand’s purest water for free. Up until a year ago, Chinese nationals were free to buy up as much badly needed residential property in New Zealand while New Zealanders had no reciprocal rights in China.
That’s all been jeopardised now because the Chinese Communist Party has thrown a tantrum over a building phone network they claim not to care about. So no, nothing xenophobic about it.
You know all this how? Don’t confuse feelings and hatred of people different to you, with fact. And of that’s your strongest rebuttal then as z country we are in a sad place.
Let’s cut off their water companies ASAP for offending us. We don’t benefit, so I am all for it.
Rather weird how people here think that NZ can do anything to China that will scare them. All they are saying is that if you want to trade with us its a two way thing. If not then we cant really be bothered and its not any skin off our nose. NZ may need China but they certainly dont need us.
“You mean those Chinese tourists who walk straight onto buses owned by Chinese businesses that operate the spaces they go to and the Chinese restaurants they eat at which we’ve just tolerated for the sake of meaningless and rarely ever seen by the locals ‘economic growth’?”
Yes, I guess you do.
They’d be the ones where driver’s working conditions and wages match those in China (and not those that are supposed to be upheld in NZ); and those Chinese restaurants where the Labour Inspectorate has ‘suddenly’ realised that there has been an Earth to Houston moment – i.e. exploitation is rampant.
I reckon Air NZ should probably review some of it’s route options and start talking to some ofO its Star Alliance partners.
Get real Martyn
If it was not for China, New Zealand long ago would have hit unemployment rates of 20 to 30%
And if the Chinese bugger off now, the NZ economy is rooted.
New Zealand is China’s 44th ranked trading partner amounting to 0.29% of their total trade.
China is New Zealand’s no 1 trading partner, with trade amounting to 25% of our total exports.
The fact is New Zealand needs China far more than China needs New Zealand. To think otherwise is to be completely and utterly deluded.
New Zealand needs to trade with non-white nations to get ahead. The power of British and Western imperialism which made us wealthy in the first place, at the expense of countries such as China, is on the wane.
No, we need to extract our way out of the all consuming spiders web that is this Chinese government.
By your reckoning everytime they say jump we MUST ask how high just to keep the money coming, money that is costing us more and more as each day passes.
We are in a horribly unbalanced relationship and no good can come of that.
Does it not worry you that National were in essence selling list seats to this lot for as little as $100k. I do not think it idle talk of Simon Bridges given the way the Nats have carried on. And enough influence around the edges of power with awards launched from donations to undermine this country.
You cannot do business with any one or any entity that is as unreliable and unscrupulous as a country that turns aircraft around for a so called administrative technicality on a whim because 8n reality they are pissed at us. If they can’t trust Air NZ then we can’t trust them!
China thought they had bought and paid us but they’re wrong. Long term we will be far better off without them.
In case you werent paying attention the jumping orders were coming from Trump and we certainly did ask how high and even though we werent sure we could survive such an effort we have decided to give it our best shot being so stoically British and all that and youd never see the Brits saying no to USA so we jolly well shouldn’t either.
@Mark, When China keep having paperwork issues and driving NZ businesses under when NZ government does not agree with them, then trade is not really honest trade between China and NZ.
Number of Visitors, Country of residence, 2018 (month of July)
Australia 121,984
China, People’s Republic of China 29,264
Yeah..its Aussies clogging things up actually..
file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/international-visitor-arrivals-to-new-zealand-july-2018.pdf
How many of those Aussies were New Zealanders?
Oz has ALWAYS been the mainstay of our tourism industry Siobhan.
Yes but isn’t OZ our biggest trading partner and their Nationals have plenty of their own land and assets to buy up which Kiwis are free to purchase too… and Aussies don’t seem so keen on working for minimum wages or paying to work here, as they already have NZ residency and have higher wages and a welfare system in their country so are raising our wages not dropping them!
Don’t pick quarrels with your paying customers. Learn the lessons from South Korea and Singapore. You don’t have to sell out your values. Just stop being so self righteous. You will miss the $$$ when they are gone.
Haha nice one. What lessons should New Zealand learn from South Korea and Singapore? That China is a bully and it uses illegal trade barriers when it doesn’t get its way? The only thing New Zealanders are going to learn from this is that China is an malicious and untrustworthy trading partner.
The mantra of any self respecting drug dealer!
China is playing a dangerous game. If it really believes it can bully a sovereign democratic nation, albeit a small one, with the threat of economic ruin through trade warfare, it’s in for a few surprises.
It may be able to do some damage to the New Zealand economy, but that will turn out to be a spectacular own goal in the long run. Many larger Western democracies that are vital trading partners for China, despite its constant braying about new trade with Africa through Belt and Road etc, are watching closely. They’re already very weary of China’s unfair mercantilist trade practices and rampant theft of intellectual property. China’s bullying of New Zealand will only reinforce their doubts further and speed up the realisation that China is an untrustworthy trading partner. It will show beyond doubt that all countries need to minimise their economic exposure to China as much as possible.
Of course there are the usual Cassandras screaming about the folly of not bending over backwards to accommodate China’s every wish and demand in the manner of “Sir” John Key. Liam Dann is seems to be gripped by a terrible panic, running around screaming like Chicken Little. There’s that bloke who’s run a Beijing-based hedge fund for 34 years, David Mahon, telling us all how bad things are. His viewpoint couldn’t possibly be influenced by his business interests in China, could it? Surely there’s no way he’d be spouting the Chinese Communist Party line just to win its favour…And then of course there’s the Nats, who besides being owned and paid for by the Communist Party themselves, see a much needed opportunity to distract the public from their latest disastrous poll results, and a handy issue to cudgel the government with at the same time.
Finally, what’s the deal with Huawei? On the one hand its executives are claiming New Zealand is a tiny market and they couldn’t care less whether we buy their 5G technology or not. Or the other they seem desperate to be allowed to build this critical infrastructure here, to the point of running a comical ad campaign about how New Zealand wouldn’t be the same without rugby and how 5G can’t possibly survive without Huawei. It’s so embarrassingly bad, one can only assume it was thought up by the People’s Ministry of Propaganda in Beijing.
None of these things inspires confidence in China as a fair and reliable trading partner for New Zealand. Let’s do what we should have done years ago and show the Chinese Communist Party our nation’s middle finger.
China is playing a dangerous game. If it really believes it can bully a sovereign democratic nation, albeit a small one, with the threat of economic ruin through trade warfare, it’s in for a few surprises.
Hang on. By banning Huawei, that is an breach of the FTA.
China of course will respond, and they are simply going to not visit as tourists in fewer numbers. But that should be a good thing right?
And what do you mean ‘economic ruin’. Are you admitting that China is important to NZ?
Banning Huawei is not a breach of the FTA if is for legitimate security concerns. Would China allow a Western company to install any of its critical 5G infrastructure? Of course it wouldn’t, so there’s no reason why it should expect New Zealand to do the same.
I’ll certainly admit China is currently economically important to New Zealand. Our previous sell-out slimebag Prime Minister “Sir” John ensured it is with his brilliant “let’s put all our eggs into the basket of one brutal dictatorship” strategy. He really was trading genius with all the foresight of Mao and his “Great Leap Forward.”
Hopefully New Zealand will learn its lesson this time and diversify its export markets and reduce its reliance on one thin-skinned, fickle and untrustworthy trading partner. I know that most of the larger Western countries and the whole of Asia, who are vital trading partners for China if it doesn’t wish to completely crash its already ailing economy, will be watching closely. At the moment China is doing a great job of confirming all their worst fears.
Problem there are no legtimate security concerns. Just imaginings cooked up by Huawei’s US competitors.
And yes, if under the FTA NZ tech companies can compete on an equal footing with Chinese and other foreign companies in China.
What is happening is NZ is obviously favouring US and other Western companies over Chinese companies – a complete and utter breach of the FTA, over no real evidence whatsoever.
So China is simply going to dry up the supply of tourists —the average Chinese will exercise their own economic choices as consumers —that is most definitely not a breach of the FTA.
It was Helen Clark, not John Key who negotiated the FTA. And its not putting all our eggs in one basket – over 100 countries have China as their number 1 trading partner. For example, the Aussie economy for example is a proxy for how well the Chinese economy is doing. The world’s economic eggs are in the Chinese basket in any case.
And of course New Zealand under National and Labour tried to diversity though the TPPA – widely seen as a counter to China. Its not for want of trying that China is still our main trading partner- –just a reflection of the global shift in economic power from West to East.
Horse twaddle. I said China would never allow ‘Western’ companies near its critical infrastructure. As you well know, New Zealand doesn’t have any tech companies selling 5G hardware. That’s why it’s tendering the job to overseas firms.
As for this whole Huawei spying business being cooked by its US competitors, why is the company itself so desperate to install its 5G hardware in New Zealand when it keeps saying the New Zealand market is so small as to be insignificant? At the same time the Chinese government is apparently prepared to go so far as to use economic sabotage to ensure its products get installed here. That smells kinda fishy – especially when the Chinese government has just passed a new law that any Chinese company or citizen must help its intelligence agencies carry out espionage at any time and in any place, or face financial ruin or a lifetime as a political prisoner:
https://qz.com/1016531/what-you-need-to-know-about-chinas-intelligence-law-that-takes-effect-today/
Chinese tourists are free to go where they choose but with state-run media their only source of information, it’s obvious there’s an element of coercion involved. China tried this form of economic blackmail with South Korea when it installed anti-missile hardware China didn’t like. Whatever the Chinese boycott achieved, it certainly didn’t make China more popular in South Korea. It also served as timely reminder to other nations in the region just how bellicose and petulant China has become.
China tried this form of economic blackmail with South Korea when it installed anti-missile hardware China didn’t like.
As they would be expected to when South Korea tries to change the balance of power in the region in a move not just targeted at North Korea but obviously China as well, and in support of the US of course.
why is the company itself so desperate to install its 5G hardware in New Zealand when it keeps saying the New Zealand market is so small as to be insignificant?
The representatives of the company in this country obviously do their best to market their product in this country. Same as Coca Cola, same as Microsoft, same as any other number of countries. And did Huawei claim NZ was insignificant? Or did you say that. Supplying 5G to a country of 4.8 million is not insignificant for a company such as Huawei, or for that matter any other type of tech company.
The facts are this. The FTA guaranteed free and equal access to the New Zealand market, with other foreign companies. New Zealand has discriminated against a major Chinese company in favour of other foreign companies. That will be seen, and indeed is, a breach of the FTA.
New Zealand has broken the terms of a treaty which it signed completely of its own accord and the Chinese, with long memories of humiliation at the hands of Western countries (unequal treaties, opium wars, boxer indemnities, extraterritoriality etc), will be retaliating, as should be expected.
Just don’t expect that global shift if it happens to benefit you Dickhead. We are not in a candy shop here with a rainbow of sweet choices to chose from with each choice being especially delightful. This is a shitfight with knives and hammers between Vikings and Manchurians and you are stumbling around the latter lots non-Viking speaking encampments raving about how awful the Vikings without knowing how to speak a word of their language. Ragnar, please, I beseech you, please let us hit this dangerous fool over the head, he is going to slow us down. Grow up. We’ve been part of the grouping we are part of for ever. Go ahead and put on a rice paddy hat and go through the motions, they won’t give a shit, respect you or like you for it.
Most of us don’t understand ‘viking’ language either.
But at least you are honest. Your position is a racial one, not a moral one.
But the good thing there does not have to be a “shitfight”. All we have to do to make the Chinese go away is insult them.
The Chinese will then simply walk away and pull the plug on the NZ economy, and send us spiralling down into just another third world Pacific backwater.
But that is your preference though is it not, Bill?
My argument is not racially-based. The West has an open attitude towards race, centering things in values and citizenship.
I only argue a “realist” position because I know how other racial and cultural groups operate, and their thoughts do not always align well with Western ideas.
For me, a Westerner can be of any race. That’s the difference. What you don’t understand is that you (and I) argue from positions that the Chinese do not share.
I am all for race-mixing or whatever. But I also believe in what I am happy to call Western values, and the values and culture of the CCP is opposed to them.
Speaking of dickheads what are you on about?
Totally agree WIN, I find it hard to believe the xenophobia i am reading here.
While we are on the subject, “If it really believes it can bully a sovereign democratic nation, albeit a small one, with the threat of economic ruin through trade warfare”.
Ever heard of Venezuela??
“Ever heard of Venezuela??”
Sure have. However living in New Zealand makes what’s happening here a lot more pertinent right now.
Join the dots. Palese. If we don’t do as we are told, then we had better watch ourselves. Wakey wakey. The thing that saves us is that we don’t have masses of oil.
Are you implying that New Zealand is under threat of invasion by the People’s Liberation Army if it doesn’t appease the Chinese Communist Party’s every desire?
Crikey!
Fair enough Martyn get rid of our trading partners and all sources of external income for NZ. This sounds like the minimum wage argument. Make everybody happy by increasing the minimum wage. But wait. Hello, with an increase in the minimum wage we will have to put up prices for our products. But now the consumer wont be able to afford them. I know lets put up the minimum wage.
Frankly I think this has xenophobia written all over it. Few complained when everyone you met in as tramping hut was German. Perhaps the Chinese tourists go where directed because they don’t speak English/. Understandable really as the proportion of NZ business operators speaking Chinese is at a guess 0.000001%
NZ needs overseas trade to maintain the standard of living all those bureaucrats in Wellington and all the Jafa’s in Auckland have become accustomed to. The USA has been in an undeclared recession for years.( The current demonetization of China and Russia is a desperate attempt to prevent the de-dollarisation that is accelerating daily) The EU is a basket case and the UK could not find its way out of a wet paper bag. (unless Corbyn is elected) All the desperate attempts by the Western bankers to create a war in order to hide their malfeasance and blame the desperate economic situation of the west on somebody else have failed. ( Thank You Vladimir Putin, the greatest statesman in the world today.)
The only economic bright light is President Xi’s One Belt One road project and NZ can either get on board or watch as our overseas income declines, unemployment increases and society degenerates as fewer and fewer people are able to earn a living wage.
Perhaps the Chinese outrage at at being unfairly excluded from the 5G rollout is justified.
Great comedy writing there. It’s a shame Jono and Ben has been cancelled or you might have been able to pick up some work on the show.
As for xenophobia, how many German nationals and their elderly parents currently reside in New Zealand as permanent residents? Maybe 5? With mainland Chinese it’s 290,000 and they vote all National (despite having no voting rights whatsoever in their homeland).
I am pleased you were amused Simonm. Remember what I said and in a year or two you may have a different view, especially if you begin to take the bullshit mainstream media with a grain of salt.
NZ should not be letting rich people buy citizenship of whatever nationality. Immigration should have been based on such things as an ongoing economic contribution, not cash, needed occupational skills, refugee status, with limits, and family ties.
“NZ should not be letting rich people buy citizenship of whatever nationality. Immigration should have been based on such things as an ongoing economic contribution, not cash, needed occupational skills, refugee status, with limits, and family ties.”
100% agree. Would you like to inform the National Party too? Cash seems to be their only consideration when doling out permanent residency and citizenship.
NZ is already addicted to Chinese money. 15 years ago, China began infiltrating NZ. One of the first things they did was donating huge number of books to the Auckland University library, all published in China of course. Then they took over the Asian Studies Centre there and put China-friendly people in charge. Now they have bought much of our media and telecom business people too. If Kiwis do not wake up now, it’d be too late.
LI AN +1
Most of the articles I link to are warnings from migrants themselves who are being ignored about what might happen here, as those in NZ in power prefer to listen and promote views from foreign nationals or migrants who are in groups and networked who donate goods or services or have a lot of money for their self advancement.
Those migrants and others on the outer who might still be too scared to speak out against power interests (and where that is leading), do not have the same voice or ability and finances to promote an opposing viewpoint from the same nationality.
“I love how China thinks it can blackmail or bully sovereign nations into doing what it wants, and there’s not going to be any comeback” By comparison is it ok for America to bully sovereign nations into doing what it wants? Whether we like it or not the next century belongs to Asia and we have no say. Going fwd now would be be a good time to re consider our alliances
We have no say huh? Might as well just wait to be herded off to concentration camps like China’s Uighar minority then I guess.
We need to do business with China, same as with Australia or USA. That doesn’t mean that we need to follow their policies and choices. I agree and disagree with many of your points.
Agree:
China can not dictate our society rules. We can not accept their view of the world or definitely can not accept them mingle in our internal affairs. We need to be in control of our resources, our land, our country. We have huge cultural differences and maybe we will never understand them.
Huawei or any other newtwork company can not run NZ telecommunications. It was mistake to let them in in first place. It’s the cultural differences that’s the problem. In China is ok the government to rule all your aspects of life, We cherish human freedoms and individual choices. It’s total opposites and will be difficult to bridge that. This cultural differences were developed trough thousands of Year of different environmental and cultural landscapes. Will not change or merge in 10-20 years. So NZ stand for your freedom. No money can buy that.
Disagree:
As China can not change us, we definitely can not change them. Let them develop and live as their choice. What they do inside borders of China is not our concern. Can we ignore them ? How? Quarter of human population? Just because we have different values ?
We will work with them and do business. Hopefully this will improve our life’s and same theirs.
Conclusion:
We need to keep independent policies and stand to anyone that tries to control or influence us. Same, we can not push for any country to change because we disagree with their culture or social organisation.
Business, we need and we will work with all countries in the world and hopefully humanity will grow and prosper in a way that will safe our environment from total collapse.
Well said! Agreed! Just stick in our values and let them stick with theirs. As long as we cooperate well for the benefit on both sides and NEVER ever let them to blackmail us.
What they do inside borders of China is not our concern.
Exactly right. All this blather about human rights is absurd. How the Chinese run China (including Tibet, Xinjiang) etc is the business of the Chinese only.
The same with other countries such as Iran etc. It is now the left with their crusading feminism etc who have become more imperialistic than the right.
After all we would not want the Chinese government making pronouncements on say the seabed and foreshore or Tuhoe independence, or the state of the tertiary sector in NZ.
Or a spy in our parliament eh Mark.
Honestly, you and Win and your other namesakes probably don’t know how your cultural interpretations come across to those not indoctrinated like you- but let me assure you, your postings only cause more unease at Chinese bullying.
I suggest a change in tactic at the troll farm.
There is of course no irony in us having this “discussion” here in the free western media, when such discussion in China would result in prison or worse.
Viko: “We need to do business with China, same as with Australia or USA. That doesn’t mean that we need to follow their policies and choices.”
Exactly. A lot of sabre-rattling going on here in the comment thread, but you have pointed out the reality. We as a country need to trade with other countries: our economic survival depends upon it.
What we also need to do is to stay the hell out of the internal politics of the countries with which we trade. That’s what an independent foreign policy looks like. We ourselves take a dim view of other polities sticking their noses into our internal affairs; the boot is also on the other foot.
Enough with the outrage over China’s human rights record! Even supposing that we actually have a proper handle on what’s going on in Xinjiang province and elsewhere: it’s none of our goddamn business. What does anybody here think that we should do about it? Ride over the border as part of a coalition of the willing? You first, professor…and not my offspring, either. We cannot change the regime, or that country’s political arrangements; nor should we be so presumptuous as to think that that we – or any other country – should try.
Last I looked (and I’ve had a lot of years of life in which to do it), China has not started a war with another country, demanded that we join in with its invasion, and threatened our trade if we don’t fall in obediently with its military plans. But the US has done just that. I know which polity worries me more; and it sure ain’t China.
And even so, what happens in US domestic politics is also none of our business. It is a trading partner: that ought to be all.
“Huawei or any other newtwork company can not run NZ telecommunications. It was mistake to let them in in first place.”
We are being dictated to by the US over this issue. And it’s mostly for commercial reasons. If it isn’t Huawei, it’ll be US technology. And if there are backdoors in Huawei systems, you can bet your bottom dollar there’ll also be backdoors in the US technology. But on the bright side: given the crappiness of the US systems, they probably won’t work.
Martyn says: “Our Chinese Overlords are angry!”
Twaddle. It is the US which is our overlord – and has been allowed by successive NZ governments to assume this position. This is because our governments desperately want a FTA with the US, and will do anything the US demands, in the belief that this is how we’ll get what we want.
We won’t. It’s abundantly clear that – as a member of this household put it – the US will put a man on Jupiter, before they’ll give us a FTA that’s worth anything at all.
It’s well past time that NZ had a foreign policy that actually is independent.
Business with China…a warning for New Zealand
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxZRsNAMEo
They are damning the Mekong which will destroy (what’s left of) Cambodia. Nothing can stop them.
This is a bit over the top, we do not yet have Chinese Overlords, we may be in danger of having them, but it is up to the people to take a stand and not let this happen.
We may instead have a number of existing and potential ‘overlords’ or powers influencing us, or trying to do so, nothing else.
You are an idiot. I lived and worked in Asia for a decade and you have no idea what you are dealing with and your equivocations are naive and basic.
The idiot is you, with such a stupid comment.
All I am saying is, that singling out China is a silly thing to do, there are just as well other countries and economies that try to exert power over New Zealand, via trade and global strategic politics, and some may succeed to degrees.
Asia is a BIG place, so where in ‘Asia’ did you work, in Turkey, Iran, Siberia, Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, Vietnam, China, Hong Kong as part of China, Japan, Taiwan, or even the Middle East???
You throw insults and accusations around, but deliver NO proof and qualified argument of anything.
What a stupid comment. If you have indeed worked in asia for decade, pity the poor people you work with your sense of superiority firmly in tact. I realise it’s not easy being an outsider but you do have to have a certain humility when living in another’s land.
“I realise it’s not easy being an outsider but you do have to have a certain humility when living in another’s land.”
Maybe someone should have Zhang Yikun that LOL!
https://www.newsroom.co.nz/2018/10/16/279660/zhang-yikun-and-the-alleged-100k-donation
Having said all of that some kind of evidence that Huawei is up to no good would be very helpful right now.
But I maintain that NZ must not have all its trading eggs in one basket and China’s unpredictable unreliable nature when doing business is an outstanding example of why that is!
What they do to the Falun Gong and other minority’s should tell you all you need to know, why do you think Potus started the trade wars?
A couple of things NZ needs to accept about China:
Could China apply sanctions or hinderances to our trade with them until (in American terms) our economy squeals?
Probably.
Would they do so in the teeth of world condemnation?
Absolutely, without blinking an eyelid.
When you sup with the devil, be sure to use a long spoon!
It’s so much better that we have USA overlords aye? They look like us and speak our language. And they’re really good at bombing countries, killing people and destroying places. They let the big guys off scott free. They have a very flexible version of democracy and I forget how many wars they steal fighting at the moment. About to start another one in Venezuela I hear. Yip and silly old China hasn’t had the gumption to invade any country recently. Heard the Uyghurs have ISIS members in their ranks. Perhaps that is the reason silly old China keeps an eye on them. I heard Xi had lifted 45 million people out of poverty. I know small drop in the ocean compared to the increasing numbers of Americans and New Zealanders living under the poverty line. Silly old China. Yes we need to be very afraid of their strong sense of business, industriousness and intelligence. Whereas with the US we only need to be afraid of their bringing democracy to the world not matter how many people are killed and countries destroyed.
It’s so much better that we have USA overlords aye? They look like us and speak our language. And they’re really good at bombing countries, killing people and destroying places. They let the big guys off scott free no matter what. They have a very flexible version of democracy and I forget how many wars they are still fighting. About to start another one in Venezuela I hear. Yip and silly old China hasn’t had the gumption to invade or destroy any country recently. But apparently they like coming here and doing business with us. But yeah nah they’re trying to take over the country.
Heard the Uyghurs have ISIS members in their ranks. Perhaps that is the reason silly old China keeps an eye on them. I heard Xi had lifted 45 million people out of poverty. I know small drop in the ocean compared to the increasing numbers of Americans and New Zealanders living under the poverty line. Silly old China. Yes we need to be very afraid of their strong sense of commerce, their industriousness and intelligence. Hey, with the US there is no need to be afraid. The US is only concerned with wars, I mean bringing democracy to the down trodden. No matter how many people are killed and countries destroyed. They’re our buddies – as long as we do as we’re told.
Excellent comments. The sheer racism and hypocrisy on this blog would make even whaleoil and kiwiblog commentators blush.
Xi is trying to avoid a full out Syria civil war type scenario in Xinjiang along the lines of what the West would like. The measures taken so far have been hugely distorted by the Western media, and they are humane compared with what is trying to be avoided. And of course far more humane than the murder of 500 k Iraqi children by US imperialism.
Uighurs and Tibetans enjoy far more autonomy and preservation of their respective languages and customs than any indigenous peoples have enjoyed in Anglo Saxon dominated countries.
Agree 100% Mark. The racism, ignorance, and careless generalisations here are totally sickening.
Worse, it is clear that these hot-headed bigots do not know or work with Chinese in NZ, because if they did they would know that they are talking codswallop.
Further, those of us who have worked in Asian countries know that by and large, they are infinitely more courteous, proper and tolerant in their dealings with other people than our bullying boozy wife beating baby killers are.
Better work ethic too.
wow that is not very patriotic of you SNOW WHITE….you sound like a Nact sellout
Red Buzzard: “….that is not very patriotic of you….”
Oh no, surely not! You know that’s just name-calling, right? Designed to shut Snow White up, while not actually proffering any counterarguments.
You got anything substantive?
@D’ESTERRE…ok you want me to spell it out for you. There are many counter arguments to SNOW WHITE if you would care to read them.
re SNOW WHITE’S comment …”Further, those of us who have worked in Asian countries know that by and large, they are infinitely more courteous, proper and tolerant in their dealings with other people than our bullying boozy wife beating baby killers are.”
…I presume SNOW WHITE is referring to New Zealand’s crime statistics…in particular when she states “our bullying boozy wife beating baby killers ”
( we know Maori are over- represented in crime and domestic crime statistics probably because, although there are very successful Maori lawyers and politicians, eg Simon Bridges and Paula Bennett, Maori largely make up the NZ economic underclass and have all sorts of life stresses eg no housing due to Nactional, no jobs, no future and they have high suicide rates amongst their youth…the Nacts are very good at kicking people when they are down aren’t they?…and with covert racism against Maori?
However there are other indications that what SNOW WHITE is saying is misleading, to say the least. She says she has worked in Asia as if she is an expert …but has she only experienced the privileged trader treatment?…is she ignoring the reality, due to her self interests?
1.) Are statistics kept in Asia, and in particular China, of wife/woman and baby killings and child abuse ? I dont think so…statistics are not kept of non persons, or exploited persons , or abused persons, or politically killed persons.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China
https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/short-reads/article/2044770/female-infanticide-dark-side-chinas-obsession
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/30/researchers-may-have-found-many-of-chinas-30-million-missing-girls/?utm_term=.4754b3275de4
Why is SNOW WHITE overlooking this and putting the boot into the most vulnerable New Zealanders , unless she has vested interests?
2.) Human rights in China is appalling…SNOW WHITE and you should both know this
(….but admittedly you may not have witnessed casual killings and brutality …I know people who have. eg a money changer in China outside an international hotel shot to death by police for exchanging money with a French tourist, or a Tibetan monk beaten senseless , probably to death, on the side of a road in Tibet by Chinese soldiers and his body thrown on the back of a truck like a sack of potatoes)
Why are you and SNOW WHITE overlooking human rights abuses in China? …and does this make you apologists ?
https://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/china/
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/china-and-tibet
https://www.voanews.com/a/us-says-china-s-human-rights-abuses-increasing-under-xi/4607843.html
http://en.minghui.org/html/articles/2013/10/17/142788.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China
Shows what a dumbass you are? Asia is a big place —even if we ignore China, I’m sure the Japanese, Singaporeans, South Koreans, etc keep statistics
In any case we don’t need statistics from China. We have statistics from New Zealand and other Western countries, which show Asian crime rates are about 1/4 the rate for ‘Caucasians’, and this includes sexual crimes and violent crimes.
https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/praise-asian-migrants-how-crime-rates-compare-ck-140969
Throughout the Western world, Asians are the most law abiding group by a country mile —do some basic research.
Also go to the engineering schools or computer science schools – overwhelmingly Asian. The most law abiding, well educated segnment of the population in New Zealand are Asians
Taught English in South Korea Mark.
Walked the busy interesting streets at night, safely. Got lost frequently and got found by people among the nicest on earth, always keen to practise their English – and help me locate my alleyway.
Confucian ethics, such as respect for older people, are, I believe, still very prevalent in Sth Korea, China,Japan, and perhaps helped me.
Friends teaching in Japan speak of good and safe living experiences. In Sth Korea, apart from anecdotal Rome-type bag snatching, women are very safe out and about around the clock – except for the beautiful young Korean women who get assaulted by members of the American Armed Forces – a Korean girl here tells me that may be getting more common, sadly.
Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, all value education highly, and often make huge personal sacrifices for their children to have private tuition etc.
Long term Chinese friends – since my under-grad days – in Singapore, say that Chinese have big superiority complexes, so blockheads here who think themselves superior to Chinese, may appreciate knowing that Chinese see themselves as even more superior still…
It is a fascinating ancient culture, and blaming all Chinese for the actions of their leaders is as nutty as blaming Kiwis for Key & Co.
A former homestay student recently spent a couple of years alternating with his wife, in returning to China to care for his aged ill mother. I don’t know how they could afford to do it, but they did, because that is what they do – sort of like the way we put our oldies into care homes – staffed by Filipinos and Pacific Islanders.
The mother here was not eligible to come to New Zealand – there’s a lot of bullshit and unnecessary resentment by peabrains around this issue.
Have I been unpatriotic again ? Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.
D’Esterre – he ain’t heavy, he’s my mother – and talking of patriotism when the whole earth may be in the process of shrugging us off – it’s just one way of processing reality- Mama could be making
rock cakes or revolting little tinned fish patties full of plastic scraps,but words are simpler – even to swallow.
You speaking for your friend D’ESTERRE who asked for my evidence?
…I gave the evidence …he is missing in action and wont answer and you won’t read it!
…what does that say?
QED….my original point was correct
Red B I’ve not read any of your references here, but would probably agree with some of what you say about China and Tibet, esp since 1950, when Tibetan Buddhism has been under attack from China to the extent that many describe it as genocide.
By the same token, China-born Chinese see Tibet as part of China, and subject to China. That is the narrative which they have grown up with, just as we have NZ’ers constantly apoplectic about Treaty settlements and feeling hard done by because our own narrative no longer seeks to deny justice for the Maori.
Seeing Maori as an economic threat is absurd.Tibetan Buddhism was, and perhaps still is, a religious issue, but is a threat to China’s hegemony. We’re not, and are not likely to be, but our own history of how we have treated the tangata whenua is also shameful, as evidenced by how tragically Maori feature in social well-being indicators.
Expecting Kiwis to understand the spiritual dimension of the Tibetan experience is a waste of time.
@Snowhite… Asian’s are also so much cheaper, they pay $40k to work here, now that is the ideal employee and citizen under neoliberalism,,, sarcasm…
ah freedom of speech. allows people to say the most atrocious things. SIS? GCSB? Come on. WHo’s paying YOU/?
You just beat me to it WIN. Hey it’s all about the evil Chinee, no mention of our bestest buddies, those spreaders of freedom and democracy and there murder of many hundreds of thousands of innocent people in there economic / regime change wars all around the world. A special mention should be made of their good work in South America,setting up murderous dictators who then decimate there own people. But hey look over there at Tibet! From what i read, Huawei may have started off copying others phones etc. (who doesn’t) but there research and development is now world leading. As i stated in a previous reply, i don’t want the Chinese spying on my communications, (unproven) and i sure as FK don’t want the other lot doing so either(proven).
Better the devil you know. Really.
The Devil you know doesn’t care about you.
The Chinese (about whom you, I am guessing, know nothing about) given even less of a fuck about you. Much less than a fuck, in fact; you are in the way. They certainly do not care about your “human rights”. To start with, you are not Chinese.
You don’t have any choice.
The Chinese take 25% of our exports.
The United states 9.6%.
We have a trade surplus with the Chinese
We have a trade deficit with the Americans.
In fact as I would love the Chinese to do as many people on this messageboard want them to do. To fuck off.
But then watch the wailing and gnashing of teeth when New Zealand’s unemployment rate hits 25 to 30% instead of the current 3.9%
Is that what you want Mary?
@Mark, I can only speak for myself but I think Chinese would be great as migrants in NZ, if NZ attracted honest people who respected NZ laws and wanted to live here because they are attracted to the NZ culture not just free money and land here and our immigration was more in line with other countries per capita.
Instead our government has embarked on a massive immigration program here that is being used to fuel neoliberal interests. It is more a financial relationship of benefit to a few individuals and multinationals, not a social or real relationship.
It is not just China’s fault. It is mostly NZ’s government and immigration laws fault and our politicians willingness to take the short term money and donations from China, and being obsessed with poor trade agreements, instead of playing a longer game to protect the nationals of NZ and promote peace in the region including with China.
China in it’s history, has been wronged by the west, and Chinese people have faced discrimination from the west, but China have reversed their fortunes, become a super power, and gained significant advantages in NZ and around the world, in particular the use of trade deals and immigration making use in NZ of generous social welfare system, free healthcare and education and relaxed assets sales for free water among other things.
Just don’t expect the average Kiwi to want to live under a Chinese communist regime with no freedom of speech or any real freedom and work for a pittance to pay for the world’s most populous nations elderly and the free education of their children here in NZ.
Because of the colour of their skin, the Chinese will never win, in the minds of many white New Zealanders.
The Chinese want to do business? That’s taking over.
The Chinese don’t want to do business? That’s bullying.
@Mark, we have plenty of 2nd generation Chinese Kiwis and Indians who are accepted here but now being labeled with the new blue dragon, Asian Nationals taking over the discourses who have been in NZ since Rogernomics and love their ideas along with the ‘lock em up’ and “Kiwi workers are lazy and drug users” brigade.
After Rogernomics our immigration system has been reduced to ethnic takeover in a peculiar mash up between Israel and Chinese style methods of colonialism, to create a new society here with Asia’s interests (in particular China) at the heart of NZ.
That is why they our government under the Natz got rid of the language criteria for immigration, we won’t be speaking English in 20 years, you can get in family members who are a burden on NZ, or bizarre circumstances aka be a drugs criminal in Jail (helps keeps the masses down to keep them on drugs) and still qualify for residency aka Sroubek.
The Natz with our government in tow naively believing the discourses that don’t make sense, and are deliberately trying to destroy our welfare system and social democratic society.
Wonderfully the neoliberal pro Asian brigade also have the unions on their side, fighting for migrant rights into NZ, not quite seeing the irony of paying $40k for a job and lowering wages and a cash economy is not exactly union material in the longer term.. but by that time a wink, wink, member of the neoliberal brigade will have been elected over the woke who are now a laughing stock and relegated to talkback worrying about white threats such as Jordan Peterson, Don Brash, and then Canadians nobody had heard of before all their protests.
The final straw will be introducing the capital gains which will propel the Natz back to introduce their final solution as they get back into power while the lefties egged on by the neoliberals in the tax working group (see members to see what I mean).
BTW, Capital gains don’t effect those who don’t pay taxes here in a cash economy, have multiple identities so that 30 million ‘family’ home is fine, and the super rich multinational who also don’t pay proper company taxes here due to legal accounting measures as they offshore the profits and bankrupt their Kiwi assets with debts… wonderful for the banks though… yippee!
Natz in power next term, Pro migrant neoliberal power at the unions, banks still in charge with more competition by Asian Banks (headed by Natz pansy’s), welfare stopped as overloaded and the assets privatised as the world’s most populous middle class from Asia with dual nationals and their families are using NZ welfare while working around the world and nobody paying any taxes apart from some sod who bought a rental in the 1990’s to pay for their retirement and forgot to sell it in time further exasperating rental shortages. (Luckily some Singaporean, Chinese or OZ based multinational who owns rentals in NZ will come to the party Natz style HNZ, to ‘rent’ out houses in social bonds type situations) while our students start paying their bills by being a sugar baby… Yipee what a future!
Also infiltrating the unions and eventually taking them over into a woke, pro migrant mash up of cheap workers for industry also has further advantages of influencing union voting rights on Labour leaders…
we already have the ‘competition’ aspect of unions playing out
https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2019/01/29/jnr-doctors-strike-again-where-is-ctu-and-psa-solidarity/
win, win for dirty politics!
Do we really want this lot as our major trading partner?
https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/global-opinions/the-west-ignored-crimes-against-humanity-in-the-1930s-its-happening-again-now/2019/02/15/d17d4998-3130-11e9-813a-0ab2f17e305b_story.html?utm_term=.0e849a51657f
The Washington Post used to be “the paper of Record” in Washington. Not any more. It was bought by Bezos the owner of Amazon and I think the worlds richest man. Since then it has become a partisan rag not worth anything.
Anne Applebaum is a propagandist for the Neocons and not worth the time of day either.
So it’s all made up, is that what you are saying?
Applebaum has made a career out of half truths and deceitful reporting. Here is an article written by her about the recent Kerch straight incident. It is full of absolute bullshit from start to finish. The Ukrainians deliberately carried out this provocation yet she incredibly accuses the Russians of a provocation. Ukrainian ships are allowed to pass through the straight but under an agreement, that was ignored on this occasion, they must stop and pick up a pilot. Standard procedure in many difficult to navigate waters. Lets also not mention that Ukraine politicians have advocated blowing up the new bridge.The whole incident was engineered by Poroshenko to boost his flagging electoral ratings and hopefully drag the US/EU into an escalated conflict. All his machinations were however masterfully de-conflicted by Putin.
This and other examples of Applebaum’s writing make it clear she is a war-mongering neocon of the worst sort so why should anyone believe what she writes about China
Agree entirely. Applebaum is a total fraud. The article linked to is just a personal rant – no evidence, no data, just a moralizing rant.
The missing Link
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/anne-applebaum-escalation-of-ukraine-crisis-was-inevitable-so-why-now-37573147.html
There is plenty on the internet about the plight of the Uyghrs that supports that article.
And a lot of it comes from similar sources.
The US propaganda machine also feeds a large part of RNZ “News”
That sure is a big problem John. Here’s 3 sources you can always rely on to report the truth in a fair and balanced manner with no hidden agenda whatsoever:
http://en.people.cn/
http://www.xinhuanet.com/english/
http://www.globaltimes.cn/
Pretty much as reliable as the Washington Post, the BBC, Fox News, and the Guardian eh? (yep the BBC and Guardian are liberal rags, but just as bad)
Nice try Mark. Each of the news organisations you mention certainly has its issues, but if you look at them across a spectrum you’ll find differing and opposing positions and viewpoints represented by all of them.
If you really believe you can conflate the largely free Western media with China’s state straitjacketed mouthpieces, I want some of what you’re smoking.
Perhaps in the likely absence of an impartial and balanced one source of news and information, then you have to read both sides of the story presented, look at the bigger picture and do some critical analysis.
The past integrity of news and information sources is a help during the early stages of research, but should never be taken as a sole determinate.
Then there are gatekeepers protecting some areas of information while often seeming to be forthcoming in critical analysis of other “official” story lines.
The mainstream business of PR firms is to know how you and the public will react and process the story lines presented.
It is well established that lies presented early and repeated incessantly becomes a base line “fact” in the minds of most and a reference against which further information is filtered. Beware those who argue using such unsubstantiated memes.
Hence much of MSM is controlled tightly and politically, but not for public good it would seem.
I’m a big fan of Huawei and AliExpress, though I also enjoy the American Military’s open access, GPS system and Google.
How about we just leave the 5 Eyes and get some 5G up in here? Such a beastly geo-political situation we are facing.
The Eastern Kingdom, I’m a fan .. Xi Jinping should aid/enable the gospel to be propagated in China. It would do wonders for them socially and economically .. just my opinion.
Ummmm, yeah, well .. it is what it is. New Zealand and China have both benefited from each other. This whole Huawei scandal could have been avoided if New Zealand gave better “Face” to China. Perfect task for Helen Clark to be involved in really.
I forgot the link
https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/anne-applebaum-escalation-of-ukraine-crisis-was-inevitable-so-why-now-37573147.html
A link like that hardly gives a fair view of what has taken place.
The US expansion of interference in other countries has many states over thrown after applied pressure of CIA regime change routines, including vast expenditure on subverting local political processes and public information flow.
Maybe this will be of interest
https://thesaker.is/the-wests-home-grown-threat/
An anti western propaganda article?
What does that have to do with the OP?
In a case of life imitating art, the Chinese troll army has invaded this blog post of Martyn’s and we are less well off for it.
+100…and much of the sophistry doesn’t make sense to ordinary New Zealanders…however anyone who reads this blog will see New Zealand certainly has a problem
The United States of America especially has become accustomed to being the universal and unitary Super Power. I think must people know this even though some people may be in cognitive dissonance over this. The truth is there are rising powers, Russia, China, African continent, but the are other rising powers too. One of the problems is we live in a state centric view of the universe. International relations for most of us is run by states, nation states is a global political unit of the international order and this is what we learn in social study’s as kids. But that is not the way the world has worked for most of human history.
Nation states are only about 300-400 years old. Before nation states there where empires and tribes and everything else. The rein of states to wage war and everything else legitimately is coming to a close. We are actually going back to a place of the anti status quo and the global order was a free for all of like the Middle Ages and antiques and what became before. And one of the things about that free for all is nation states wasn’t just super powers. In the Middle Ages rich aristocracy where super powers and we are going back to this world again so y’know we random billionaires today who have as much power as states, there are about 60 or so billionaires who owns half the worlds wealth. And we’ve got Fortune 500 companies who are more powerful than most of the states on the world.
Of the 190 nation states of the world most are fragile or failed. We only take the top 25 states like the U.S. G20, ect. But they’re anomalies, the vast motorists of states are more either regimes hiding inside states or are outright just rubbish fires. So what we will see in the future is those with wealth and political power who can also higher there own private armies now, become super powers in there own right. The world use to wage a lot of private wars in military history infect most of history IS privatised. Mercenaries have always been a major component of war and what happens is when you privatise war, military strategies blend with business ones. Blending strategies puts us all at risk because what happens is our 3 and 4 star generals and policy makers are not prepared for this type of warfare.
Mercenaries have been around for ever but about 150 years ago they went away for good. A lot of people say they went away after the 30 years war and stuff like that where mercenaries ran amuck where both rulers and ruled were both tired of them and rulers and kings started investing in there own armies which is now very expensive. Mercenaries are cheaper than standing armies just like it’s cheaper to rent than to own, and countries start to invest is armies of there own and there’s reasons for that, some are technological, some political but nation states have monopolised the use of force and over and mercenaries went underground around the 1850’s during the wars of decolonisation in Africa but they where always in the shadows. Now they are returning and they are upfront whether it be Blackwater in the United States of America or the Wagner Group for Russia which is a powerful mercenary group or Executive Outcomes for South Africa in the 90’s.
We are seeing mercenaries come out of the shadows and what can put them back into the shadows is one thing, if all the nation states of the world got together and band together as they did in the 1600’s and say no more mercenaries, which I think world peace would be easie, so I don’t think that’ll happen. Some people want to put faith in international public law, the UN and international laws of war but the truth is that international laws around war is already feeble and let’s not forget mercenaries can shoot your law informant dead.
Force is the only commodity that can not be regulated and this is what makes medina rise so dangerous and by the way who’s going to go into the Middle East and arrest all these mercenaries now? Will it be the UN? The US marines? They had there shot in Iraq and blew it. So I don’t think laws are the answer to this, I think the most we can do is shape the market and incentivise good behaviours and blackball bad ones. But the market for force thought out all of history had a brief hiatus but it is returning now and we are not prepared for this and it’s one of the biggest security threats of the 21st century yet we are still focused on ISIS.
In some ways CEOs have more to say about strategy in future private warfare than than does the pentagon and we are not prepared for this and we are not prepared for this. You’ve got think about mercenaries as a market for force with supply and demand, demand is clients and supply is force. Mercenaries don’t want to work themselves out of business, they want to start elongated wars for profit and when they’re out of work they become bandits creating artificial demand for there services.
In the Middle Ages for example one of the things a mercenary force would get involved in is racketeering and extortion. For example a small mercenary force shows up at the gates of a city demanding and they’d say we want 5000kgs of what ever, and the people give them all there gold just so you don’t sack us and take all our gold and the mercenaries say thanks we’ll be back next year.
Buzzard.
So a world awash with mercenaries is a world awash with more wars and the resurrection of private armies is symbolic and symptomatic of durable disorder because they will keep persistent conflict going and keep contributing to entropy and let’s not forget there are clients who are random billionaires and multinational corporations who will use private forces to secure their assets and people or they can wage war for what ever reason no matter how petty. No matter how petty. And having mercenaries in the world meeting with money lowers the barriers to conflict. It makes going to war easier, and it makes stopping war harder.
It’s sad how the world has declined into a place where money dominates everything – from domestic funding of political parties to foreign policy.
The idea that the global market is supreme, nation states should just manage the place of their nation state within that regime via corporate led FTA deals and faciliate the interests of coporate profit making over human rights – forsaking sovereignty, security and values for the sake of easier economic activity.
The irony that this makes transition from hegemony from one super power to another more seamless is lost on some (but not Trump and thus his nationalist rebellion against the international regime the US built).
Given we have professed to believe in democracy, human rights and multi-lateralism and collective security, the argument that we should not care about another regime’s behaviour, just trade (even when they use debt to take over land in other nations – debt imperialism, build fake islands to steal the economic zones of other nations, lie they will not militarise these atolls and then do, proving what they say cannot be relied on) is frankly nihilistic and amoral – the nadir of post modernism.
Sure it’s an irony that the fading super power that built the global market regime (for corporate profit making first) placing money at the centre of their order of rule has paved the way to being superceded.
And its hypocritical that an economic and military super power which leveraged security concerns to spy on the world via technology, now says its successor is a security threat if it has the same capability.
But 5G’s connection to smart devices means the risk ofmailious activity is now becoming higher. This quite apart from the concerns on the health impact on people and supplier connections to government perfidity. Let others be the canaries in the gold mine – kick for touch.
Wo, almost up to the normal levels of comments on every Kiwi-blog — talkbackers and taxidrivers there. Decision: we don’t want to get above 26 % of international trade with China. Not their authoritarian conduct but their ‘authoritarianism’ alienates, to our bowels, we democracies. I still can’t remember the name of the Chinese dictator but he must address our fundamental distaste for totalitarianism, let alone the proselytising of it.
Comments are closed.