Our Chinese Overlords are angry! We should have angered them a long time ago!

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Our Chinese Overlords are angry!

New Zealand’s tourism industry is facing backlash following rocky relationship with China
China is turning up the heat on New Zealand, threatening our booming tourism industry will take a lashing on the back of the Huawei saga.

An article published in the English version of China’s People’s Daily newspaper suggests New Zealand has fallen out of favour with Chinese travellers.

The paper, regarded as the mouthpiece for the Chinese government, quotes a traveller who saved more than $3200 to come to New Zealand but cancelled his plans.

“Is it a kind of robbery? New Zealand stabbed us in the back but asks for our money? This is double-faced,” a Beijing-based worker told the Global Times.

Wait, you mean China will stop over loading our groaning infrastructure with their tourists?

You mean those Chinese tourists who walk straight onto buses owned by Chinese businesses that operate the spaces they go to and the Chinese restaurants they eat at which we’ve just tolerated for the sake of meaningless and rarely ever seen by the locals ‘economic growth’?

YAY! Less Tourists taking up more of our infrastructure that has been so poorly planned for that we can barely use it our selves!

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

THIS IS A WIN!

Can we now also get China to stop buying all our bloody milk powder which in turn will stop incentivising our greedy corporate  farmers from polluting our rivers?

And after we have stopped our greedy corporate farmers from polluting out waters for intensive dairy farming can we finally get the bloody Chinese out from stealing our fresh water fro their bottling plants?

Our Chinese Overlords are angry – we should have angered them a lot sooner!‬

‪If we have finished angering China, can we start pissing off America please?‬

195 COMMENTS

  1. Most of the Chinese are just here on shopping trips for NZ land and assets.. so looking forward to an easing off on congestion, pollution and overseas assets sales…

    Can we anger other government’s too… also tired of the violence and crimes against women as for whatever reason our governments preferred choices of new residents seem to be from countries that have poorer rights and violence against women statistically…

    We already have a family violence issue in NZ, why the hell do we need more of the same. you can actually apply for permanent residency in NZ on the basis of being in a abusive relationship here…

    • … also tired of the violence and crimes against women as for whatever reason our governments preferred choices of new residents seem to be from countries that have poorer rights and violence against women statistically…

      What a load of bollocks. Crime rates in Asia in almost all categories are far lower than that in NZ. Go to any part of Taiwan, Hong Kong, Japan, Singapore, you will see women walking the streets at night with absolutely no fear at all.

      In NZ Asian crime rates are about one fifth the caucasian crime rate, and rates for violent and sexual crimes about one third the caucasian crime rate.

      https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/praise-asian-migrants-how-crime-rates-compare-ck-140969

      So the best way to drop the crime rate? Increase the Asian percentage of the population

    • Come on SAVENZ: where is the evidence of Asians in NZ being overrepresented in crimes against woman?

      One thing we can be sure of. Paedophiles and child porn downloaders are invariably white.

      • I like the way you Segwayed into “increase Asian population makes everything all better.” Made my day.

        As long as secound generation immigrants learn to speak English as the working language while retaining there native language. I couldn’t care less where they come from really.

      • Have posted some links to support my statement. But they have not appeared yet.

        My view is that NZ already has significant issues with violence against women and the women’s refugees are full. Why we are encouraging immigration from countries that are even higher in suicide and women’s violence to settle here, and not actually check the suitability of new residents in a robust way is beyond me???

        Maybe having that cheap worker in the fields or Burger King or relatives settling here, no questions asked or some cash for a retirement home is worth it, it the eyes of our immigration laws???

        Sadly like our dodgy degrees our ease-to-residency is not doing our international reputation any good when criminals are coming here and calling themselves Kiwis on paper in a few years!

        I’m not against immigration from Asia, I’m against the lack of robustness in our immigration system and the speed in which any tom dick or harry can gain themselves a Kiwi passport or permanent residency with few checks or interest in their characters which is easy to mask with only a 2 – 5 year wait.

        If any lies or omissions are found on residency applications then the immigration does not take away the NZ residency or NZ passport so therefore encouraging people to lie to live here which is at epidemic proportions.

        If we had a few outspoken artists, writers, poets and pro democracy protesters who get granted NZ residency from Asia I would be all for it, but instead our immigration preference is for Subway fast food managers and aged relatives to come here from Asia…

        • Come on SaveNZ, where is your evidence that Asians, Chinese in particular are involved in crimes against women in new Zealand any more than your Caucasian white new zealander? I’m fact you have nothing. The opposite is true, the sexual crime rate in new Zealand of Asians is about 1/4 the Caucasian rate, I have provided the link in another post

          • In this study 80% of the ‘Asian’ women were facing violence were NZ citizens or permanent residents, some of whom had been married in pre arranged marriages.

            We are importing in family violence issues by our no questions family category and 80% of the asian women were NZ citizens and permanent residents, thus the reporting of crimes tends to be in NZ on residency status or citizenship status NOT ethnicity. This is one rare study into Asian’s coming to NZ but are citizens or permanent residents.

            The reality it is incredibly easy for any Tom, dick or Harry to enter NZ these days and legally call themselves a Kiwi after a very short time in the country and somehow get residency, even if they don’t speak the language, were not born here, never worked here, don’t even want to be here in some cases, and our government seems ok with that and now our criminal and social system is starting to fill up with these issues which are statistically entered as Kiwi citizens.

            Time there is at least 10 years and a real investigation into people’s affairs including their character and beliefs as well as their ability to tax taxes and not be a burden on NZ citizens who actually work in NZ and have plenty of social issues of our own to overcome but now being diluted with more and more offshore issues being introduced into NZ and just ignored by NZ authorities and government!

            …almost 30% of participants came to New Zealand in the family category (e.g. joining their parents, and some women, according to the interview data, entered into a pre-arranged marriage relationship); 80% of participants were citizens or permanent residents in New Zealand.

            Family Violence in Asian Communities, Combining Research and Community Development

            https://www.msd.govt.nz/about-msd-and-our-work/publications-resources/journals-and-magazines/social-policy-journal/spj31/31-family-violence-in-asian-communities-pages170-194.html

  2. No surprises here.

    Anne-Marie Brady break-ins: Police investigation hits dead end

    An investigation into a burglary and other incidents reported by prominent China critic Anne-Marie Brady is unresolved and police say they have no further lines of enquiry.

    Anne-Marie Brady Anne-Marie Brady Photo: Supplied
    Canterbury University professor Anne-Marie Brady has said her office has been broken into twice, her house burgled, her car tampered with and she has received a threatening letter after she published a paper on the influence of the Chinese Communist Party in the Pacific.

    “Professor Brady has reported a number of incidents which have occurred since late 2017 including a burglary at her home, two break-ins at her university office, damage to her vehicle, and a series of anonymous phone calls,” Detective Superintendent Stu Allsop-Smith said.

    “Police have taken these incidents very seriously and a lengthy, detailed and extensive investigation has been conducted.

    “This has involved all necessary police resources including detailed forensic analysis, interviews and expert advice.

    “The burglaries and other matters reported remain unresolved at this time.”

    Mr Allsop-Smith said at this point there were no further lines of enquiry to pursue unless new information became available.

    “Any new information will be carefully assessed to determine what, if any, evidential relevance it may have,” he said in a statement.

    Police and the university would continue to provide her with updated advice, including security advice if required, and maintain an active response plan, Mr Allsop-Smith said.

  3. 80 percent of methamphetamine precursors came from mainland China until a “joint task” effort by the New Zealand and Chinese police “cracked down”; the latter shifting export of their illegal drugs to Triad crime centre Vancouver, whose housing market, incidentally, has been priced out by the Chinese criminals the CCP is happy to have laundering money and exporting drugs for them overseas, so long as it benefits the Middle Kingdom.

    The idea of entering into a Fair Trade Agreement with China was always a ridiculous notion and now they are showing themselves to be happy to breach any principles and punish New Zealand severely for deciding against one of that country’s companies in an open tender for infrastructure services. This is totally unacceptable and we need to ramp up trade with partners like Britain (thank God for Brexit) immediately.

    We also need to deploy our Navy to protect our territorial integrity and our resources. Failing that anyone who criticizes the UK’s recent announcement of sending ships to the Pacific is a suicidal fool.

    If there is any benefit culturally or otherwise to this period it will be the complete and utter end to the glib and historically inaccurate neo-Marxist trash that we are being forced to swallow on a daily basis which is quite clearly designed to weaken and divide us as similar rhetoric was during the Bolshevik terrors of the early 20th Century.

    • +100 HEINRICK…re “The idea of entering into a Fair Trade Agreement with China was always a ridiculous notion ..” (naive in the EXTREME)

      …it would have been far better for agricultural trade to have had an agreement with Russia…but the jonkey Nacts snubbed Russia and cultivated China for their own personal benefit

    • You sure have a funny idea of what open tender means. Uncle Sam doesnt usually get to decide who participates…

      You sound like a cheerleader for the random Guaido. Most of that type has been recognised in Venezuela as the traitors they are.

      Anyone trying to instill fear over the very minor Chinese reactions that have occurred so far and use them as a reason to sell our sovereignty to USA deserves contempt. Donald Trump and his ilk may inspire you but most of us can see it for the delusional self interest that it is.

  4. We pissed off the Yanks and the French in the mid 80s. Now the Chinese. Russians next? God knows Russian oligarchs have bought up chunks of our best land. They can piss off to.

  5. As China is so miffed with NZ, I take it the Chinese government will also stop families moving here, bringing their non English speaking aged parents with them, who get all the benefits of superannuation, Super Gold Card, health care etc? Then the families move back to China, leaving the old parents in NZ!

    No more Chinese tourists coming, so no more aged Chinese parents to take advantage of NZ’s social welfare system. Fair enough!

    • I don’t know where you got your information from but “non English speaking aged parents”, as you call them, very seldom get granted residency here. And for those that do come here to live, they do not get free health care, gold card or health care and usually they are required to prove they have adequate funds and/or private medical insurance.

        • When they have been here for a certain length of time, 20 years I believe, they are eligible. It was implied that they can come over and immediately take everything for free – which is not true.

          • It’s 10 years to become eligible for full NZ pension actually, and 65 years old to receive a SuperGold travel card, regardless of how long a person has lived in NZ.

            Parent visa holders are supposed to take care of all their own income and medical needs, but as has been the case countless times, the New Zealand taxpayer has been left picking up the tab through WINZ and the public health service:

            https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/315435/migrants'-parents-cost-nz-'tens-of-millions

            New Zealand spends 50% of its entire health budget on people in their last 6 months of life. Why New Zealand is suddenly taking on a load of new elderly and infirm people who have never been taxpayers in this country defies common sense.

            • +100…re ..”Why New Zealand is suddenly taking on a load of new elderly and infirm people who have never been taxpayers in this country defies common sense.”…Yes!

              ….and in New Zealand the public hospitals eg Christchurch …are short changing our own elderly and New Zealanders with urgent operations….delaying them …or outright denying them because of their age…giving our New Zealand elderly a death sentence

              …these are New Zealanders born and breed who have paid taxes into health all their lives…

            • +1 SIMONM

              Also another area of high cost is children being born in the health system, for some reason our immigration is being encouraged in that area too!

              Maybe to bankrupt the NZ welfare system to create a full privatisation system like Asia that Rogernomics and the Natz have dreamed of with all that cash divided out on the sales of public assets like water plants, power and land?

      • Mike the Lefty … if they are expected to have adequate funds /health insurance, why do they utilise the public health system, such as clinics etc?

        You state, to be eligible for superannuation, free public health care etc, 20 years in the country is required. Why is it then so many senior Chinese residents have a noticeable lack of English communication skills after that time? Obviously no effort has been made by them (or their families to assist them) to integrate into the community. They seem to lack knowledge of the NZ way of life.

        So it begs the question, why did they come here in the first place, maybe other than to be with their families, when the latter, return to China eventually, leaving their aged parents here, to be taken care of by the state?

        This is something NZ government can work on. Prevent China using NZ as a dumping ground for older Chinese!

        • So Mary I take it you can trace your ancestry back to one of the original canoes. If not then there was a time when your family and the families of friends were in the same position as the people you are now frothing about. And sorry it doesnt wash to say oh but there wasnt the same handouts then because thats not what Maori weresaying as their land was trashed and stolen and their villages burned and their whole social structure destroyed.

          You come across as a miserable whining bean counter but the worst sort that only cares about money “wasted” on the “undeserving”

        • We are now having the aged migrants, getting money to marry other aged migrants.

          “Immigration officials have failed in an attempt to deport a 60-year-old who they believed paid a woman to marry him for residence after only 11 days of first meeting.”

          https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/national/376220/10k-11-days-and-one-failed-deportation

          Presumably neither paid much or any NZ taxes but somehow they are allowed access welfare after a mere 10 years while Kiwis struggle and have to pay for them!

          Not just China, all the migrant countries should not have access to NZ services if they were not born here and did not pay significant amounts of taxes aka 20+ years of their working life paying taxes in NZ (not gaining taxes in welfare which seems to be more likely these days in NZ)!

          NZ workers have become like Cuckoo surrogates killing themselves with work to look after other Nationals who are often richer, and paying for their children and elderly to thrive in NZ.

          and our government thinks up new ways to tax people who work while bringing in more people needing welfare into NZ for that money to support!

      • @Mike, That is probably the honest aged parents who don’t qualify for anything… those who are handy with paperwork or have access to lawyers within the family seem to be doing very well… in these cases the aged parents were ‘abandoned’ by their $90k+ family members and therefore qualified for welfare.. likewise the article also shows how aged migrant parents took up a lot more health resources than Kiwis of the same age…

        https://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/315435/migrants'-parents-cost-nz-'tens-of-millions

        The hospitals are not policed for payment. You get treated no matter what. And those who are good with lawyers also get ACC… even in highly unusual cases where the causes have not been identified… https://www.stuff.co.nz/national/100320173/poisoned-waikato-family-set-to-get-acc

        There are many people who pay no ACC premiums and are not even citizens and have no private health insurance, who can qualify for extensive health care here..

  6. I love how China thinks it can blackmail or bully sovereign nations into doing what it wants, and there’s not going to be any comeback. We’re small, but we’re feisty. How about we shut down your water bottling plants and you can stop flogging our natural resources? Thanks, National, for cultivating a relationship with China that borders on incestuous in order to line your own pockets.

  7. I have to agree with this one Bomber, people who try to label anti-China discussion as racist miss the point. It is not race, it is culture, and the culture that China teaches is not pleasant (infinite leader etc.) The sooner Aotearoa can redefine itself as an independent country the better, let the “super powers” quibble amongst themselves and let’s work in conjuction with our Pacific family to create a strong Oceania where the big shots don’t call the shots.

    • “Its not race its culture”.

      Thats hilarious. I nearly choked. Mathew quite candidly admitting hes racist and doesnt even realise it!!

      • Fine, everyone is racist. North East Asians seem to have a 5000 year history of it apparently.

        The issues that he raises though are correct.

        We have not done NZ any benefits by claiming that anyone who disagrees with China or those who practice a communist authoritarian political system are racist.

  8. The long-term thinking on this should be quite simple.

    If every single negotiation with this party carries with it a risk big enough to be a threat to every other negotiation with them, historically and in the future, then trading with them is not advisable and alternative trading partners should be sought.

    Turning back our planes, throttling the flow of tourism, and stopping our exports at port are all very egregious breaches to any FTA we may have with them, which, given these unilateral actions, makes any FTA agreement not worth the paper it is written on.

    I myself have sat in a room with Chinese businessmen backed by the CCP, for the purpose of signing a contract. While looking over the agreement, they informed me that any business dispute that didn’t go their way ended up with the other party being arrested.

    I told them to shove the contract up their arse and walked out. NZ should do the same.

    • While looking over the agreement, they informed me that any business dispute that didn’t go their way ended up with the other party being arrested.

      I told them to shove the contract up their arse and walked out. NZ should do the same.

      That.Sounds.Highly.Unbelievable

      • “That.Sounds.Highly.Unbelievable”

        How come? Have you run a business in Asia? Did you live in multiple countries for nearly a decade, like I did? Have you ever done business with Chinese business people from Hong Kong or Mainland China or Malaysia or Indonesia or Thailand or Cambodia, like I have? What’s the basis for your skepticism?

      • Actually that does not sound unlikely at all.

        A contract is what western person wants. If it does not benefit us then it needs to be ignored or renegotiated.

        I have heard very similar points myself.

  9. To be honest I imagine a lot of the Chinese who come to here to live / buy real estate / come here on holiday are the same pricks who have profited by destroying their own environment back in China while the poor bastards who didn’t are left to deal with the consequences – would be more than happy if they all went home.

  10. What the fuck is it with the corporate media?

    Fran O’Sullivan seems to have no concept of sovereignty and Barry Soper, being a bitchy whiny arse ever since his Visa to the US was cancelled, has none either.

    If it wasn’t Huawei it would some other contrived incident. To be fair robberies happen, the police are understaffed and our driving is poor, exacerbated by foreign drivers. All valid criticism but I don’t fancy my chances in respect of the same issues in China, that’s for sure

    We gave the Chinese government legitimacy doing a free trade deal, we gave them our trust and that is priceless for them to hold up to others in the world of business but now it looks like we are in a relationship with a gang whose tactics are pure underworld.

    Does this mean no more money laundering from their end through us, no more absentee landlords, no more water exploitation,, no more psuedoephedrine, I bloody hope so!

    I don’t much fancy the US government but compared to the Chinese the American people are okay with me.

  11. Umm
    If the Chinese are overlords, pray tell; What have the Americans been?

    Empires die.

    The French found this to be true following Dien Bien Phu (Vietnam) and Algeria. Oh! and the 6 weeks it took Germany to conquer France in 1940.

    The British found this to be true after Dunkirk, Singapore and Kenya (Mau Mau).

    Russia and China are now in the process of proving that the incumbent Emperor (Uncle Sam), has fewer and fewer clothes.

    As the Roman’s found, so to will China, but at the moment, if the objective of our government is to create an environment where employment may flourish (and the down stream effects), I reckon its not a good idea to kick sand in the face of the emerging Emperor.

    • Your foolish mistake is to look at all empires or pretenders to it as potential equal partners.

      It’s lovely that our culture promotes that, at least internally, in respect of the people of different origins that come in.

      But you are very naive if you think those foreign powers are so lovey-dovey in respect of the existing population here. They are not. And Tangata Whenua won’t get any special treatment either.

    • Idiot. We are part of the British, American and to an extent French empire.

      And you’ll realize that quite painfully when we can no longer call on them.

  12. I wrote this in 2016, but in 2019 it is as relevant as ever. It is something that bothers me quite a bit working in a related sector.

    I have no problems with Chinese tourists coming. The ones I have met have been nice, polite and as far as this non-Mandarin speaker could tell, were having a great time here.

    But the numbers that are coming over is not sustainable. Unless we have a major overhaul of how we deal with tourists, New Zealand is going to do major damage to itself.

    So in a perverse way, I sort of welcome any cooling down of the market.

  13. Yeah let’s all give it to the Chinese. We don’t need their money. After all, all they do is buy our land and assets.

    The disgusting xenophobia on this site is embarrassing. But I guess the Chinese have always been our *niggas* since they first arrived here. Yeah lets just trade with people who look and act like us. A lot further to send whatever it is we think we’re going to sell them but who cares about the carbon footprint of doing trade with the Europeans.

    • The Tibetans are just one minority group under the jurisdiction of China which are victimised , oppressed and second class citizens to the majority grossly over populated Han Chinese, who have invaded and plundered Tibet

      …so don’t cry victimisation and “xenophobia” and *niggas*…and try and play the guilt trip card…you will only fool the gullible woke and ignorant

      https://www.freetibet.org/

      https://freetibet.org/about/china-argument

      https://www.pri.org/stories/2014-11-24/new-book-documents-china-s-exploitation-tibet-s-natural-resources

    • Glad you you could find the time to drop by TBD. Writing your weekly hagiography of Emporer Xi for the Blue Dragon newsletter must be quite time consuming. I guess the Chinese Embassy sees the baiting of any cheeky laowai who dare to question the authority of the motherland as being worthwhile.

      China is only getting what’s coming to it for being a bully. As it’s about to find out, New Zealanders don’t like being bullied by bigger nations, especially ones with human rights records as dire as China’s. Both France and the US have been surprised in the past by the tenacity of New Zealanders in the face of injustice and unwarranted pressure.

      China is stupid. It had New Zealand exactly where it wanted it. The National Party is in its pocket and is willing to put China’s interests above those of New Zealand citizens for cash. Chinese companies have had free reign in buying up New Zealand land and assets and bottle trillions of litres of New Zealand’s purest water for free. Up until a year ago, Chinese nationals were free to buy up as much badly needed residential property in New Zealand while New Zealanders had no reciprocal rights in China.

      That’s all been jeopardised now because the Chinese Communist Party has thrown a tantrum over a building phone network they claim not to care about. So no, nothing xenophobic about it.

      • You know all this how? Don’t confuse feelings and hatred of people different to you, with fact. And of that’s your strongest rebuttal then as z country we are in a sad place.

      • Rather weird how people here think that NZ can do anything to China that will scare them. All they are saying is that if you want to trade with us its a two way thing. If not then we cant really be bothered and its not any skin off our nose. NZ may need China but they certainly dont need us.

  14. “You mean those Chinese tourists who walk straight onto buses owned by Chinese businesses that operate the spaces they go to and the Chinese restaurants they eat at which we’ve just tolerated for the sake of meaningless and rarely ever seen by the locals ‘economic growth’?”
    Yes, I guess you do.
    They’d be the ones where driver’s working conditions and wages match those in China (and not those that are supposed to be upheld in NZ); and those Chinese restaurants where the Labour Inspectorate has ‘suddenly’ realised that there has been an Earth to Houston moment – i.e. exploitation is rampant.

    I reckon Air NZ should probably review some of it’s route options and start talking to some ofO its Star Alliance partners.

  15. Get real Martyn

    If it was not for China, New Zealand long ago would have hit unemployment rates of 20 to 30%

    And if the Chinese bugger off now, the NZ economy is rooted.

    New Zealand is China’s 44th ranked trading partner amounting to 0.29% of their total trade.

    China is New Zealand’s no 1 trading partner, with trade amounting to 25% of our total exports.

    The fact is New Zealand needs China far more than China needs New Zealand. To think otherwise is to be completely and utterly deluded.

    New Zealand needs to trade with non-white nations to get ahead. The power of British and Western imperialism which made us wealthy in the first place, at the expense of countries such as China, is on the wane.

    • No, we need to extract our way out of the all consuming spiders web that is this Chinese government.

      By your reckoning everytime they say jump we MUST ask how high just to keep the money coming, money that is costing us more and more as each day passes.

      We are in a horribly unbalanced relationship and no good can come of that.

      Does it not worry you that National were in essence selling list seats to this lot for as little as $100k. I do not think it idle talk of Simon Bridges given the way the Nats have carried on. And enough influence around the edges of power with awards launched from donations to undermine this country.

      You cannot do business with any one or any entity that is as unreliable and unscrupulous as a country that turns aircraft around for a so called administrative technicality on a whim because 8n reality they are pissed at us. If they can’t trust Air NZ then we can’t trust them!

      China thought they had bought and paid us but they’re wrong. Long term we will be far better off without them.

      • In case you werent paying attention the jumping orders were coming from Trump and we certainly did ask how high and even though we werent sure we could survive such an effort we have decided to give it our best shot being so stoically British and all that and youd never see the Brits saying no to USA so we jolly well shouldn’t either.

    • @Mark, When China keep having paperwork issues and driving NZ businesses under when NZ government does not agree with them, then trade is not really honest trade between China and NZ.

  16. Number of Visitors, Country of residence, 2018 (month of July)

    Australia 121,984
    China, People’s Republic of China 29,264

    Yeah..its Aussies clogging things up actually..

    file:///C:/Users/User/Downloads/international-visitor-arrivals-to-new-zealand-july-2018.pdf

    • Yes but isn’t OZ our biggest trading partner and their Nationals have plenty of their own land and assets to buy up which Kiwis are free to purchase too… and Aussies don’t seem so keen on working for minimum wages or paying to work here, as they already have NZ residency and have higher wages and a welfare system in their country so are raising our wages not dropping them!

  17. Don’t pick quarrels with your paying customers. Learn the lessons from South Korea and Singapore. You don’t have to sell out your values. Just stop being so self righteous. You will miss the $$$ when they are gone.

    • Haha nice one. What lessons should New Zealand learn from South Korea and Singapore? That China is a bully and it uses illegal trade barriers when it doesn’t get its way? The only thing New Zealanders are going to learn from this is that China is an malicious and untrustworthy trading partner.

  18. China is playing a dangerous game. If it really believes it can bully a sovereign democratic nation, albeit a small one, with the threat of economic ruin through trade warfare, it’s in for a few surprises.

    It may be able to do some damage to the New Zealand economy, but that will turn out to be a spectacular own goal in the long run. Many larger Western democracies that are vital trading partners for China, despite its constant braying about new trade with Africa through Belt and Road etc, are watching closely. They’re already very weary of China’s unfair mercantilist trade practices and rampant theft of intellectual property. China’s bullying of New Zealand will only reinforce their doubts further and speed up the realisation that China is an untrustworthy trading partner. It will show beyond doubt that all countries need to minimise their economic exposure to China as much as possible.

    Of course there are the usual Cassandras screaming about the folly of not bending over backwards to accommodate China’s every wish and demand in the manner of “Sir” John Key. Liam Dann is seems to be gripped by a terrible panic, running around screaming like Chicken Little. There’s that bloke who’s run a Beijing-based hedge fund for 34 years, David Mahon, telling us all how bad things are. His viewpoint couldn’t possibly be influenced by his business interests in China, could it? Surely there’s no way he’d be spouting the Chinese Communist Party line just to win its favour…And then of course there’s the Nats, who besides being owned and paid for by the Communist Party themselves, see a much needed opportunity to distract the public from their latest disastrous poll results, and a handy issue to cudgel the government with at the same time.

    Finally, what’s the deal with Huawei? On the one hand its executives are claiming New Zealand is a tiny market and they couldn’t care less whether we buy their 5G technology or not. Or the other they seem desperate to be allowed to build this critical infrastructure here, to the point of running a comical ad campaign about how New Zealand wouldn’t be the same without rugby and how 5G can’t possibly survive without Huawei. It’s so embarrassingly bad, one can only assume it was thought up by the People’s Ministry of Propaganda in Beijing.

    None of these things inspires confidence in China as a fair and reliable trading partner for New Zealand. Let’s do what we should have done years ago and show the Chinese Communist Party our nation’s middle finger.

    • China is playing a dangerous game. If it really believes it can bully a sovereign democratic nation, albeit a small one, with the threat of economic ruin through trade warfare, it’s in for a few surprises.

      Hang on. By banning Huawei, that is an breach of the FTA.
      China of course will respond, and they are simply going to not visit as tourists in fewer numbers. But that should be a good thing right?

      And what do you mean ‘economic ruin’. Are you admitting that China is important to NZ?

      • Banning Huawei is not a breach of the FTA if is for legitimate security concerns. Would China allow a Western company to install any of its critical 5G infrastructure? Of course it wouldn’t, so there’s no reason why it should expect New Zealand to do the same.

        I’ll certainly admit China is currently economically important to New Zealand. Our previous sell-out slimebag Prime Minister “Sir” John ensured it is with his brilliant “let’s put all our eggs into the basket of one brutal dictatorship” strategy. He really was trading genius with all the foresight of Mao and his “Great Leap Forward.”

        Hopefully New Zealand will learn its lesson this time and diversify its export markets and reduce its reliance on one thin-skinned, fickle and untrustworthy trading partner. I know that most of the larger Western countries and the whole of Asia, who are vital trading partners for China if it doesn’t wish to completely crash its already ailing economy, will be watching closely. At the moment China is doing a great job of confirming all their worst fears.

        • Problem there are no legtimate security concerns. Just imaginings cooked up by Huawei’s US competitors.
          And yes, if under the FTA NZ tech companies can compete on an equal footing with Chinese and other foreign companies in China.

          What is happening is NZ is obviously favouring US and other Western companies over Chinese companies – a complete and utter breach of the FTA, over no real evidence whatsoever.

          So China is simply going to dry up the supply of tourists —the average Chinese will exercise their own economic choices as consumers —that is most definitely not a breach of the FTA.

          It was Helen Clark, not John Key who negotiated the FTA. And its not putting all our eggs in one basket – over 100 countries have China as their number 1 trading partner. For example, the Aussie economy for example is a proxy for how well the Chinese economy is doing. The world’s economic eggs are in the Chinese basket in any case.

          And of course New Zealand under National and Labour tried to diversity though the TPPA – widely seen as a counter to China. Its not for want of trying that China is still our main trading partner- –just a reflection of the global shift in economic power from West to East.

          • Horse twaddle. I said China would never allow ‘Western’ companies near its critical infrastructure. As you well know, New Zealand doesn’t have any tech companies selling 5G hardware. That’s why it’s tendering the job to overseas firms.

            As for this whole Huawei spying business being cooked by its US competitors, why is the company itself so desperate to install its 5G hardware in New Zealand when it keeps saying the New Zealand market is so small as to be insignificant? At the same time the Chinese government is apparently prepared to go so far as to use economic sabotage to ensure its products get installed here. That smells kinda fishy – especially when the Chinese government has just passed a new law that any Chinese company or citizen must help its intelligence agencies carry out espionage at any time and in any place, or face financial ruin or a lifetime as a political prisoner:

            https://qz.com/1016531/what-you-need-to-know-about-chinas-intelligence-law-that-takes-effect-today/

            Chinese tourists are free to go where they choose but with state-run media their only source of information, it’s obvious there’s an element of coercion involved. China tried this form of economic blackmail with South Korea when it installed anti-missile hardware China didn’t like. Whatever the Chinese boycott achieved, it certainly didn’t make China more popular in South Korea. It also served as timely reminder to other nations in the region just how bellicose and petulant China has become.

            • China tried this form of economic blackmail with South Korea when it installed anti-missile hardware China didn’t like.

              As they would be expected to when South Korea tries to change the balance of power in the region in a move not just targeted at North Korea but obviously China as well, and in support of the US of course.

              why is the company itself so desperate to install its 5G hardware in New Zealand when it keeps saying the New Zealand market is so small as to be insignificant?

              The representatives of the company in this country obviously do their best to market their product in this country. Same as Coca Cola, same as Microsoft, same as any other number of countries. And did Huawei claim NZ was insignificant? Or did you say that. Supplying 5G to a country of 4.8 million is not insignificant for a company such as Huawei, or for that matter any other type of tech company.

              The facts are this. The FTA guaranteed free and equal access to the New Zealand market, with other foreign companies. New Zealand has discriminated against a major Chinese company in favour of other foreign companies. That will be seen, and indeed is, a breach of the FTA.

              New Zealand has broken the terms of a treaty which it signed completely of its own accord and the Chinese, with long memories of humiliation at the hands of Western countries (unequal treaties, opium wars, boxer indemnities, extraterritoriality etc), will be retaliating, as should be expected.

          • Just don’t expect that global shift if it happens to benefit you Dickhead. We are not in a candy shop here with a rainbow of sweet choices to chose from with each choice being especially delightful. This is a shitfight with knives and hammers between Vikings and Manchurians and you are stumbling around the latter lots non-Viking speaking encampments raving about how awful the Vikings without knowing how to speak a word of their language. Ragnar, please, I beseech you, please let us hit this dangerous fool over the head, he is going to slow us down. Grow up. We’ve been part of the grouping we are part of for ever. Go ahead and put on a rice paddy hat and go through the motions, they won’t give a shit, respect you or like you for it.

            • Most of us don’t understand ‘viking’ language either.

              But at least you are honest. Your position is a racial one, not a moral one.

              But the good thing there does not have to be a “shitfight”. All we have to do to make the Chinese go away is insult them.

              The Chinese will then simply walk away and pull the plug on the NZ economy, and send us spiralling down into just another third world Pacific backwater.

              But that is your preference though is it not, Bill?

              • My argument is not racially-based. The West has an open attitude towards race, centering things in values and citizenship.

                I only argue a “realist” position because I know how other racial and cultural groups operate, and their thoughts do not always align well with Western ideas.

                For me, a Westerner can be of any race. That’s the difference. What you don’t understand is that you (and I) argue from positions that the Chinese do not share.

                I am all for race-mixing or whatever. But I also believe in what I am happy to call Western values, and the values and culture of the CCP is opposed to them.

    • Totally agree WIN, I find it hard to believe the xenophobia i am reading here.
      While we are on the subject, “If it really believes it can bully a sovereign democratic nation, albeit a small one, with the threat of economic ruin through trade warfare”.
      Ever heard of Venezuela??

      • “Ever heard of Venezuela??”

        Sure have. However living in New Zealand makes what’s happening here a lot more pertinent right now.

        • Join the dots. Palese. If we don’t do as we are told, then we had better watch ourselves. Wakey wakey. The thing that saves us is that we don’t have masses of oil.

          • Are you implying that New Zealand is under threat of invasion by the People’s Liberation Army if it doesn’t appease the Chinese Communist Party’s every desire?
            Crikey!

  19. Fair enough Martyn get rid of our trading partners and all sources of external income for NZ. This sounds like the minimum wage argument. Make everybody happy by increasing the minimum wage. But wait. Hello, with an increase in the minimum wage we will have to put up prices for our products. But now the consumer wont be able to afford them. I know lets put up the minimum wage.
    Frankly I think this has xenophobia written all over it. Few complained when everyone you met in as tramping hut was German. Perhaps the Chinese tourists go where directed because they don’t speak English/. Understandable really as the proportion of NZ business operators speaking Chinese is at a guess 0.000001%
    NZ needs overseas trade to maintain the standard of living all those bureaucrats in Wellington and all the Jafa’s in Auckland have become accustomed to. The USA has been in an undeclared recession for years.( The current demonetization of China and Russia is a desperate attempt to prevent the de-dollarisation that is accelerating daily) The EU is a basket case and the UK could not find its way out of a wet paper bag. (unless Corbyn is elected) All the desperate attempts by the Western bankers to create a war in order to hide their malfeasance and blame the desperate economic situation of the west on somebody else have failed. ( Thank You Vladimir Putin, the greatest statesman in the world today.)
    The only economic bright light is President Xi’s One Belt One road project and NZ can either get on board or watch as our overseas income declines, unemployment increases and society degenerates as fewer and fewer people are able to earn a living wage.
    Perhaps the Chinese outrage at at being unfairly excluded from the 5G rollout is justified.

    • Great comedy writing there. It’s a shame Jono and Ben has been cancelled or you might have been able to pick up some work on the show.

      As for xenophobia, how many German nationals and their elderly parents currently reside in New Zealand as permanent residents? Maybe 5? With mainland Chinese it’s 290,000 and they vote all National (despite having no voting rights whatsoever in their homeland).

      • I am pleased you were amused Simonm. Remember what I said and in a year or two you may have a different view, especially if you begin to take the bullshit mainstream media with a grain of salt.
        NZ should not be letting rich people buy citizenship of whatever nationality. Immigration should have been based on such things as an ongoing economic contribution, not cash, needed occupational skills, refugee status, with limits, and family ties.

        • “NZ should not be letting rich people buy citizenship of whatever nationality. Immigration should have been based on such things as an ongoing economic contribution, not cash, needed occupational skills, refugee status, with limits, and family ties.”

          100% agree. Would you like to inform the National Party too? Cash seems to be their only consideration when doling out permanent residency and citizenship.

  20. NZ is already addicted to Chinese money. 15 years ago, China began infiltrating NZ. One of the first things they did was donating huge number of books to the Auckland University library, all published in China of course. Then they took over the Asian Studies Centre there and put China-friendly people in charge. Now they have bought much of our media and telecom business people too. If Kiwis do not wake up now, it’d be too late.

    • LI AN +1

      Most of the articles I link to are warnings from migrants themselves who are being ignored about what might happen here, as those in NZ in power prefer to listen and promote views from foreign nationals or migrants who are in groups and networked who donate goods or services or have a lot of money for their self advancement.

      Those migrants and others on the outer who might still be too scared to speak out against power interests (and where that is leading), do not have the same voice or ability and finances to promote an opposing viewpoint from the same nationality.

  21. “I love how China thinks it can blackmail or bully sovereign nations into doing what it wants, and there’s not going to be any comeback” By comparison is it ok for America to bully sovereign nations into doing what it wants? Whether we like it or not the next century belongs to Asia and we have no say. Going fwd now would be be a good time to re consider our alliances

    • We have no say huh? Might as well just wait to be herded off to concentration camps like China’s Uighar minority then I guess.

  22. We need to do business with China, same as with Australia or USA. That doesn’t mean that we need to follow their policies and choices. I agree and disagree with many of your points.
    Agree:
    China can not dictate our society rules. We can not accept their view of the world or definitely can not accept them mingle in our internal affairs. We need to be in control of our resources, our land, our country. We have huge cultural differences and maybe we will never understand them.
    Huawei or any other newtwork company can not run NZ telecommunications. It was mistake to let them in in first place. It’s the cultural differences that’s the problem. In China is ok the government to rule all your aspects of life, We cherish human freedoms and individual choices. It’s total opposites and will be difficult to bridge that. This cultural differences were developed trough thousands of Year of different environmental and cultural landscapes. Will not change or merge in 10-20 years. So NZ stand for your freedom. No money can buy that.
    Disagree:
    As China can not change us, we definitely can not change them. Let them develop and live as their choice. What they do inside borders of China is not our concern. Can we ignore them ? How? Quarter of human population? Just because we have different values ?
    We will work with them and do business. Hopefully this will improve our life’s and same theirs.
    Conclusion:
    We need to keep independent policies and stand to anyone that tries to control or influence us. Same, we can not push for any country to change because we disagree with their culture or social organisation.
    Business, we need and we will work with all countries in the world and hopefully humanity will grow and prosper in a way that will safe our environment from total collapse.

    • Well said! Agreed! Just stick in our values and let them stick with theirs. As long as we cooperate well for the benefit on both sides and NEVER ever let them to blackmail us.

    • What they do inside borders of China is not our concern.

      Exactly right. All this blather about human rights is absurd. How the Chinese run China (including Tibet, Xinjiang) etc is the business of the Chinese only.

      The same with other countries such as Iran etc. It is now the left with their crusading feminism etc who have become more imperialistic than the right.

      After all we would not want the Chinese government making pronouncements on say the seabed and foreshore or Tuhoe independence, or the state of the tertiary sector in NZ.

      • Or a spy in our parliament eh Mark.
        Honestly, you and Win and your other namesakes probably don’t know how your cultural interpretations come across to those not indoctrinated like you- but let me assure you, your postings only cause more unease at Chinese bullying.
        I suggest a change in tactic at the troll farm.
        There is of course no irony in us having this “discussion” here in the free western media, when such discussion in China would result in prison or worse.

    • Viko: “We need to do business with China, same as with Australia or USA. That doesn’t mean that we need to follow their policies and choices.”

      Exactly. A lot of sabre-rattling going on here in the comment thread, but you have pointed out the reality. We as a country need to trade with other countries: our economic survival depends upon it.

      What we also need to do is to stay the hell out of the internal politics of the countries with which we trade. That’s what an independent foreign policy looks like. We ourselves take a dim view of other polities sticking their noses into our internal affairs; the boot is also on the other foot.

      Enough with the outrage over China’s human rights record! Even supposing that we actually have a proper handle on what’s going on in Xinjiang province and elsewhere: it’s none of our goddamn business. What does anybody here think that we should do about it? Ride over the border as part of a coalition of the willing? You first, professor…and not my offspring, either. We cannot change the regime, or that country’s political arrangements; nor should we be so presumptuous as to think that that we – or any other country – should try.

      Last I looked (and I’ve had a lot of years of life in which to do it), China has not started a war with another country, demanded that we join in with its invasion, and threatened our trade if we don’t fall in obediently with its military plans. But the US has done just that. I know which polity worries me more; and it sure ain’t China.

      And even so, what happens in US domestic politics is also none of our business. It is a trading partner: that ought to be all.

      “Huawei or any other newtwork company can not run NZ telecommunications. It was mistake to let them in in first place.”

      We are being dictated to by the US over this issue. And it’s mostly for commercial reasons. If it isn’t Huawei, it’ll be US technology. And if there are backdoors in Huawei systems, you can bet your bottom dollar there’ll also be backdoors in the US technology. But on the bright side: given the crappiness of the US systems, they probably won’t work.

      Martyn says: “Our Chinese Overlords are angry!”

      Twaddle. It is the US which is our overlord – and has been allowed by successive NZ governments to assume this position. This is because our governments desperately want a FTA with the US, and will do anything the US demands, in the belief that this is how we’ll get what we want.

      We won’t. It’s abundantly clear that – as a member of this household put it – the US will put a man on Jupiter, before they’ll give us a FTA that’s worth anything at all.

      It’s well past time that NZ had a foreign policy that actually is independent.

  23. This is a bit over the top, we do not yet have Chinese Overlords, we may be in danger of having them, but it is up to the people to take a stand and not let this happen.

    We may instead have a number of existing and potential ‘overlords’ or powers influencing us, or trying to do so, nothing else.

    • You are an idiot. I lived and worked in Asia for a decade and you have no idea what you are dealing with and your equivocations are naive and basic.

      • The idiot is you, with such a stupid comment.

        All I am saying is, that singling out China is a silly thing to do, there are just as well other countries and economies that try to exert power over New Zealand, via trade and global strategic politics, and some may succeed to degrees.

        Asia is a BIG place, so where in ‘Asia’ did you work, in Turkey, Iran, Siberia, Sri Lanka, India, Indonesia, Vietnam, China, Hong Kong as part of China, Japan, Taiwan, or even the Middle East???

        You throw insults and accusations around, but deliver NO proof and qualified argument of anything.

      • What a stupid comment. If you have indeed worked in asia for decade, pity the poor people you work with your sense of superiority firmly in tact. I realise it’s not easy being an outsider but you do have to have a certain humility when living in another’s land.

  24. Having said all of that some kind of evidence that Huawei is up to no good would be very helpful right now.

    But I maintain that NZ must not have all its trading eggs in one basket and China’s unpredictable unreliable nature when doing business is an outstanding example of why that is!

  25. What they do to the Falun Gong and other minority’s should tell you all you need to know, why do you think Potus started the trade wars?

  26. A couple of things NZ needs to accept about China:

    Could China apply sanctions or hinderances to our trade with them until (in American terms) our economy squeals?

    Probably.

    Would they do so in the teeth of world condemnation?

    Absolutely, without blinking an eyelid.

    When you sup with the devil, be sure to use a long spoon!

  27. It’s so much better that we have USA overlords aye? They look like us and speak our language. And they’re really good at bombing countries, killing people and destroying places. They let the big guys off scott free. They have a very flexible version of democracy and I forget how many wars they steal fighting at the moment. About to start another one in Venezuela I hear. Yip and silly old China hasn’t had the gumption to invade any country recently. Heard the Uyghurs have ISIS members in their ranks. Perhaps that is the reason silly old China keeps an eye on them. I heard Xi had lifted 45 million people out of poverty. I know small drop in the ocean compared to the increasing numbers of Americans and New Zealanders living under the poverty line. Silly old China. Yes we need to be very afraid of their strong sense of business, industriousness and intelligence. Whereas with the US we only need to be afraid of their bringing democracy to the world not matter how many people are killed and countries destroyed.

  28. It’s so much better that we have USA overlords aye? They look like us and speak our language. And they’re really good at bombing countries, killing people and destroying places. They let the big guys off scott free no matter what. They have a very flexible version of democracy and I forget how many wars they are still fighting. About to start another one in Venezuela I hear. Yip and silly old China hasn’t had the gumption to invade or destroy any country recently. But apparently they like coming here and doing business with us. But yeah nah they’re trying to take over the country.

    Heard the Uyghurs have ISIS members in their ranks. Perhaps that is the reason silly old China keeps an eye on them. I heard Xi had lifted 45 million people out of poverty. I know small drop in the ocean compared to the increasing numbers of Americans and New Zealanders living under the poverty line. Silly old China. Yes we need to be very afraid of their strong sense of commerce, their industriousness and intelligence. Hey, with the US there is no need to be afraid. The US is only concerned with wars, I mean bringing democracy to the down trodden. No matter how many people are killed and countries destroyed. They’re our buddies – as long as we do as we’re told.

    • Excellent comments. The sheer racism and hypocrisy on this blog would make even whaleoil and kiwiblog commentators blush.

      Xi is trying to avoid a full out Syria civil war type scenario in Xinjiang along the lines of what the West would like. The measures taken so far have been hugely distorted by the Western media, and they are humane compared with what is trying to be avoided. And of course far more humane than the murder of 500 k Iraqi children by US imperialism.

      Uighurs and Tibetans enjoy far more autonomy and preservation of their respective languages and customs than any indigenous peoples have enjoyed in Anglo Saxon dominated countries.

      • Agree 100% Mark. The racism, ignorance, and careless generalisations here are totally sickening.

        Worse, it is clear that these hot-headed bigots do not know or work with Chinese in NZ, because if they did they would know that they are talking codswallop.

        Further, those of us who have worked in Asian countries know that by and large, they are infinitely more courteous, proper and tolerant in their dealings with other people than our bullying boozy wife beating baby killers are.

        Better work ethic too.

          • Red Buzzard: “….that is not very patriotic of you….”

            Oh no, surely not! You know that’s just name-calling, right? Designed to shut Snow White up, while not actually proffering any counterarguments.

            You got anything substantive?

            • @D’ESTERRE…ok you want me to spell it out for you. There are many counter arguments to SNOW WHITE if you would care to read them.

              re SNOW WHITE’S comment …”Further, those of us who have worked in Asian countries know that by and large, they are infinitely more courteous, proper and tolerant in their dealings with other people than our bullying boozy wife beating baby killers are.”

              …I presume SNOW WHITE is referring to New Zealand’s crime statistics…in particular when she states “our bullying boozy wife beating baby killers ”

              ( we know Maori are over- represented in crime and domestic crime statistics probably because, although there are very successful Maori lawyers and politicians, eg Simon Bridges and Paula Bennett, Maori largely make up the NZ economic underclass and have all sorts of life stresses eg no housing due to Nactional, no jobs, no future and they have high suicide rates amongst their youth…the Nacts are very good at kicking people when they are down aren’t they?…and with covert racism against Maori?

              However there are other indications that what SNOW WHITE is saying is misleading, to say the least. She says she has worked in Asia as if she is an expert …but has she only experienced the privileged trader treatment?…is she ignoring the reality, due to her self interests?

              1.) Are statistics kept in Asia, and in particular China, of wife/woman and baby killings and child abuse ? I dont think so…statistics are not kept of non persons, or exploited persons , or abused persons, or politically killed persons.

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Female_infanticide_in_China

              https://www.scmp.com/magazines/post-magazine/short-reads/article/2044770/female-infanticide-dark-side-chinas-obsession

              https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2016/11/30/researchers-may-have-found-many-of-chinas-30-million-missing-girls/?utm_term=.4754b3275de4

              Why is SNOW WHITE overlooking this and putting the boot into the most vulnerable New Zealanders , unless she has vested interests?

              2.) Human rights in China is appalling…SNOW WHITE and you should both know this

              (….but admittedly you may not have witnessed casual killings and brutality …I know people who have. eg a money changer in China outside an international hotel shot to death by police for exchanging money with a French tourist, or a Tibetan monk beaten senseless , probably to death, on the side of a road in Tibet by Chinese soldiers and his body thrown on the back of a truck like a sack of potatoes)

              Why are you and SNOW WHITE overlooking human rights abuses in China? …and does this make you apologists ?

              https://www.amnestyusa.org/countries/china/

              https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2018/country-chapters/china-and-tibet

              https://www.voanews.com/a/us-says-china-s-human-rights-abuses-increasing-under-xi/4607843.html

              http://en.minghui.org/html/articles/2013/10/17/142788.html

              https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Organ_harvesting_from_Falun_Gong_practitioners_in_China

              • “Are statistics kept in Asia”

                Shows what a dumbass you are? Asia is a big place —even if we ignore China, I’m sure the Japanese, Singaporeans, South Koreans, etc keep statistics

                In any case we don’t need statistics from China. We have statistics from New Zealand and other Western countries, which show Asian crime rates are about 1/4 the rate for ‘Caucasians’, and this includes sexual crimes and violent crimes.

                https://www.nbr.co.nz/article/praise-asian-migrants-how-crime-rates-compare-ck-140969

                Throughout the Western world, Asians are the most law abiding group by a country mile —do some basic research.

                Also go to the engineering schools or computer science schools – overwhelmingly Asian. The most law abiding, well educated segnment of the population in New Zealand are Asians

                • Taught English in South Korea Mark.
                  Walked the busy interesting streets at night, safely. Got lost frequently and got found by people among the nicest on earth, always keen to practise their English – and help me locate my alleyway.

                  Confucian ethics, such as respect for older people, are, I believe, still very prevalent in Sth Korea, China,Japan, and perhaps helped me.

                  Friends teaching in Japan speak of good and safe living experiences. In Sth Korea, apart from anecdotal Rome-type bag snatching, women are very safe out and about around the clock – except for the beautiful young Korean women who get assaulted by members of the American Armed Forces – a Korean girl here tells me that may be getting more common, sadly.

                  Koreans, Chinese, Japanese, all value education highly, and often make huge personal sacrifices for their children to have private tuition etc.

                  Long term Chinese friends – since my under-grad days – in Singapore, say that Chinese have big superiority complexes, so blockheads here who think themselves superior to Chinese, may appreciate knowing that Chinese see themselves as even more superior still…

                  It is a fascinating ancient culture, and blaming all Chinese for the actions of their leaders is as nutty as blaming Kiwis for Key & Co.

                  A former homestay student recently spent a couple of years alternating with his wife, in returning to China to care for his aged ill mother. I don’t know how they could afford to do it, but they did, because that is what they do – sort of like the way we put our oldies into care homes – staffed by Filipinos and Pacific Islanders.

                  The mother here was not eligible to come to New Zealand – there’s a lot of bullshit and unnecessary resentment by peabrains around this issue.

                  Have I been unpatriotic again ? Oh no. Oh no. Oh no.

            • D’Esterre – he ain’t heavy, he’s my mother – and talking of patriotism when the whole earth may be in the process of shrugging us off – it’s just one way of processing reality- Mama could be making
              rock cakes or revolting little tinned fish patties full of plastic scraps,but words are simpler – even to swallow.

              • You speaking for your friend D’ESTERRE who asked for my evidence?

                …I gave the evidence …he is missing in action and wont answer and you won’t read it!

                …what does that say?

                QED….my original point was correct

          • Red B I’ve not read any of your references here, but would probably agree with some of what you say about China and Tibet, esp since 1950, when Tibetan Buddhism has been under attack from China to the extent that many describe it as genocide.

            By the same token, China-born Chinese see Tibet as part of China, and subject to China. That is the narrative which they have grown up with, just as we have NZ’ers constantly apoplectic about Treaty settlements and feeling hard done by because our own narrative no longer seeks to deny justice for the Maori.

            Seeing Maori as an economic threat is absurd.Tibetan Buddhism was, and perhaps still is, a religious issue, but is a threat to China’s hegemony. We’re not, and are not likely to be, but our own history of how we have treated the tangata whenua is also shameful, as evidenced by how tragically Maori feature in social well-being indicators.

            Expecting Kiwis to understand the spiritual dimension of the Tibetan experience is a waste of time.

        • @Snowhite… Asian’s are also so much cheaper, they pay $40k to work here, now that is the ideal employee and citizen under neoliberalism,,, sarcasm…

  29. You just beat me to it WIN. Hey it’s all about the evil Chinee, no mention of our bestest buddies, those spreaders of freedom and democracy and there murder of many hundreds of thousands of innocent people in there economic / regime change wars all around the world. A special mention should be made of their good work in South America,setting up murderous dictators who then decimate there own people. But hey look over there at Tibet! From what i read, Huawei may have started off copying others phones etc. (who doesn’t) but there research and development is now world leading. As i stated in a previous reply, i don’t want the Chinese spying on my communications, (unproven) and i sure as FK don’t want the other lot doing so either(proven).

    • Better the devil you know. Really.

      The Devil you know doesn’t care about you.

      The Chinese (about whom you, I am guessing, know nothing about) given even less of a fuck about you. Much less than a fuck, in fact; you are in the way. They certainly do not care about your “human rights”. To start with, you are not Chinese.

      • You don’t have any choice.
        The Chinese take 25% of our exports.
        The United states 9.6%.

        We have a trade surplus with the Chinese
        We have a trade deficit with the Americans.

        In fact as I would love the Chinese to do as many people on this messageboard want them to do. To fuck off.

        But then watch the wailing and gnashing of teeth when New Zealand’s unemployment rate hits 25 to 30% instead of the current 3.9%

        Is that what you want Mary?

        • @Mark, I can only speak for myself but I think Chinese would be great as migrants in NZ, if NZ attracted honest people who respected NZ laws and wanted to live here because they are attracted to the NZ culture not just free money and land here and our immigration was more in line with other countries per capita.

          Instead our government has embarked on a massive immigration program here that is being used to fuel neoliberal interests. It is more a financial relationship of benefit to a few individuals and multinationals, not a social or real relationship.

          It is not just China’s fault. It is mostly NZ’s government and immigration laws fault and our politicians willingness to take the short term money and donations from China, and being obsessed with poor trade agreements, instead of playing a longer game to protect the nationals of NZ and promote peace in the region including with China.

          China in it’s history, has been wronged by the west, and Chinese people have faced discrimination from the west, but China have reversed their fortunes, become a super power, and gained significant advantages in NZ and around the world, in particular the use of trade deals and immigration making use in NZ of generous social welfare system, free healthcare and education and relaxed assets sales for free water among other things.

          Just don’t expect the average Kiwi to want to live under a Chinese communist regime with no freedom of speech or any real freedom and work for a pittance to pay for the world’s most populous nations elderly and the free education of their children here in NZ.

  30. Because of the colour of their skin, the Chinese will never win, in the minds of many white New Zealanders.

    The Chinese want to do business? That’s taking over.

    The Chinese don’t want to do business? That’s bullying.

    • @Mark, we have plenty of 2nd generation Chinese Kiwis and Indians who are accepted here but now being labeled with the new blue dragon, Asian Nationals taking over the discourses who have been in NZ since Rogernomics and love their ideas along with the ‘lock em up’ and “Kiwi workers are lazy and drug users” brigade.

      After Rogernomics our immigration system has been reduced to ethnic takeover in a peculiar mash up between Israel and Chinese style methods of colonialism, to create a new society here with Asia’s interests (in particular China) at the heart of NZ.

      That is why they our government under the Natz got rid of the language criteria for immigration, we won’t be speaking English in 20 years, you can get in family members who are a burden on NZ, or bizarre circumstances aka be a drugs criminal in Jail (helps keeps the masses down to keep them on drugs) and still qualify for residency aka Sroubek.

      The Natz with our government in tow naively believing the discourses that don’t make sense, and are deliberately trying to destroy our welfare system and social democratic society.

      Wonderfully the neoliberal pro Asian brigade also have the unions on their side, fighting for migrant rights into NZ, not quite seeing the irony of paying $40k for a job and lowering wages and a cash economy is not exactly union material in the longer term.. but by that time a wink, wink, member of the neoliberal brigade will have been elected over the woke who are now a laughing stock and relegated to talkback worrying about white threats such as Jordan Peterson, Don Brash, and then Canadians nobody had heard of before all their protests.

      The final straw will be introducing the capital gains which will propel the Natz back to introduce their final solution as they get back into power while the lefties egged on by the neoliberals in the tax working group (see members to see what I mean).

      BTW, Capital gains don’t effect those who don’t pay taxes here in a cash economy, have multiple identities so that 30 million ‘family’ home is fine, and the super rich multinational who also don’t pay proper company taxes here due to legal accounting measures as they offshore the profits and bankrupt their Kiwi assets with debts… wonderful for the banks though… yippee!

      Natz in power next term, Pro migrant neoliberal power at the unions, banks still in charge with more competition by Asian Banks (headed by Natz pansy’s), welfare stopped as overloaded and the assets privatised as the world’s most populous middle class from Asia with dual nationals and their families are using NZ welfare while working around the world and nobody paying any taxes apart from some sod who bought a rental in the 1990’s to pay for their retirement and forgot to sell it in time further exasperating rental shortages. (Luckily some Singaporean, Chinese or OZ based multinational who owns rentals in NZ will come to the party Natz style HNZ, to ‘rent’ out houses in social bonds type situations) while our students start paying their bills by being a sugar baby… Yipee what a future!

    • The Washington Post used to be “the paper of Record” in Washington. Not any more. It was bought by Bezos the owner of Amazon and I think the worlds richest man. Since then it has become a partisan rag not worth anything.
      Anne Applebaum is a propagandist for the Neocons and not worth the time of day either.

        • Applebaum has made a career out of half truths and deceitful reporting. Here is an article written by her about the recent Kerch straight incident. It is full of absolute bullshit from start to finish. The Ukrainians deliberately carried out this provocation yet she incredibly accuses the Russians of a provocation. Ukrainian ships are allowed to pass through the straight but under an agreement, that was ignored on this occasion, they must stop and pick up a pilot. Standard procedure in many difficult to navigate waters. Lets also not mention that Ukraine politicians have advocated blowing up the new bridge.The whole incident was engineered by Poroshenko to boost his flagging electoral ratings and hopefully drag the US/EU into an escalated conflict. All his machinations were however masterfully de-conflicted by Putin.
          This and other examples of Applebaum’s writing make it clear she is a war-mongering neocon of the worst sort so why should anyone believe what she writes about China

          • Agree entirely. Applebaum is a total fraud. The article linked to is just a personal rant – no evidence, no data, just a moralizing rant.

                • Pretty much as reliable as the Washington Post, the BBC, Fox News, and the Guardian eh? (yep the BBC and Guardian are liberal rags, but just as bad)

                  • Nice try Mark. Each of the news organisations you mention certainly has its issues, but if you look at them across a spectrum you’ll find differing and opposing positions and viewpoints represented by all of them.
                    If you really believe you can conflate the largely free Western media with China’s state straitjacketed mouthpieces, I want some of what you’re smoking.

                  • Perhaps in the likely absence of an impartial and balanced one source of news and information, then you have to read both sides of the story presented, look at the bigger picture and do some critical analysis.

                    The past integrity of news and information sources is a help during the early stages of research, but should never be taken as a sole determinate.

                    Then there are gatekeepers protecting some areas of information while often seeming to be forthcoming in critical analysis of other “official” story lines.

                    The mainstream business of PR firms is to know how you and the public will react and process the story lines presented.
                    It is well established that lies presented early and repeated incessantly becomes a base line “fact” in the minds of most and a reference against which further information is filtered. Beware those who argue using such unsubstantiated memes.

                    Hence much of MSM is controlled tightly and politically, but not for public good it would seem.

  31. I’m a big fan of Huawei and AliExpress, though I also enjoy the American Military’s open access, GPS system and Google.

    How about we just leave the 5 Eyes and get some 5G up in here? Such a beastly geo-political situation we are facing.

    The Eastern Kingdom, I’m a fan .. Xi Jinping should aid/enable the gospel to be propagated in China. It would do wonders for them socially and economically .. just my opinion.

    Ummmm, yeah, well .. it is what it is. New Zealand and China have both benefited from each other. This whole Huawei scandal could have been avoided if New Zealand gave better “Face” to China. Perfect task for Helen Clark to be involved in really.

    • A link like that hardly gives a fair view of what has taken place.

      The US expansion of interference in other countries has many states over thrown after applied pressure of CIA regime change routines, including vast expenditure on subverting local political processes and public information flow.

  32. There is an interesting article on freedom.org about how China is trying to influence governments and crack down on any overseas dissidents.

    • An anti western propaganda article?
      What does that have to do with the OP?

      In a case of life imitating art, the Chinese troll army has invaded this blog post of Martyn’s and we are less well off for it.

      • +100…and much of the sophistry doesn’t make sense to ordinary New Zealanders…however anyone who reads this blog will see New Zealand certainly has a problem

  33. The United States of America especially has become accustomed to being the universal and unitary Super Power. I think must people know this even though some people may be in cognitive dissonance over this. The truth is there are rising powers, Russia, China, African continent, but the are other rising powers too. One of the problems is we live in a state centric view of the universe. International relations for most of us is run by states, nation states is a global political unit of the international order and this is what we learn in social study’s as kids. But that is not the way the world has worked for most of human history.

    Nation states are only about 300-400 years old. Before nation states there where empires and tribes and everything else. The rein of states to wage war and everything else legitimately is coming to a close. We are actually going back to a place of the anti status quo and the global order was a free for all of like the Middle Ages and antiques and what became before. And one of the things about that free for all is nation states wasn’t just super powers. In the Middle Ages rich aristocracy where super powers and we are going back to this world again so y’know we random billionaires today who have as much power as states, there are about 60 or so billionaires who owns half the worlds wealth. And we’ve got Fortune 500 companies who are more powerful than most of the states on the world.

    Of the 190 nation states of the world most are fragile or failed. We only take the top 25 states like the U.S. G20, ect. But they’re anomalies, the vast motorists of states are more either regimes hiding inside states or are outright just rubbish fires. So what we will see in the future is those with wealth and political power who can also higher there own private armies now, become super powers in there own right. The world use to wage a lot of private wars in military history infect most of history IS privatised. Mercenaries have always been a major component of war and what happens is when you privatise war, military strategies blend with business ones. Blending strategies puts us all at risk because what happens is our 3 and 4 star generals and policy makers are not prepared for this type of warfare.

    Mercenaries have been around for ever but about 150 years ago they went away for good. A lot of people say they went away after the 30 years war and stuff like that where mercenaries ran amuck where both rulers and ruled were both tired of them and rulers and kings started investing in there own armies which is now very expensive. Mercenaries are cheaper than standing armies just like it’s cheaper to rent than to own, and countries start to invest is armies of there own and there’s reasons for that, some are technological, some political but nation states have monopolised the use of force and over and mercenaries went underground around the 1850’s during the wars of decolonisation in Africa but they where always in the shadows. Now they are returning and they are upfront whether it be Blackwater in the United States of America or the Wagner Group for Russia which is a powerful mercenary group or Executive Outcomes for South Africa in the 90’s.

    We are seeing mercenaries come out of the shadows and what can put them back into the shadows is one thing, if all the nation states of the world got together and band together as they did in the 1600’s and say no more mercenaries, which I think world peace would be easie, so I don’t think that’ll happen. Some people want to put faith in international public law, the UN and international laws of war but the truth is that international laws around war is already feeble and let’s not forget mercenaries can shoot your law informant dead.

    Force is the only commodity that can not be regulated and this is what makes medina rise so dangerous and by the way who’s going to go into the Middle East and arrest all these mercenaries now? Will it be the UN? The US marines? They had there shot in Iraq and blew it. So I don’t think laws are the answer to this, I think the most we can do is shape the market and incentivise good behaviours and blackball bad ones. But the market for force thought out all of history had a brief hiatus but it is returning now and we are not prepared for this and it’s one of the biggest security threats of the 21st century yet we are still focused on ISIS.

    In some ways CEOs have more to say about strategy in future private warfare than than does the pentagon and we are not prepared for this and we are not prepared for this. You’ve got think about mercenaries as a market for force with supply and demand, demand is clients and supply is force. Mercenaries don’t want to work themselves out of business, they want to start elongated wars for profit and when they’re out of work they become bandits creating artificial demand for there services.

    In the Middle Ages for example one of the things a mercenary force would get involved in is racketeering and extortion. For example a small mercenary force shows up at the gates of a city demanding and they’d say we want 5000kgs of what ever, and the people give them all there gold just so you don’t sack us and take all our gold and the mercenaries say thanks we’ll be back next year.

    Buzzard.

    So a world awash with mercenaries is a world awash with more wars and the resurrection of private armies is symbolic and symptomatic of durable disorder because they will keep persistent conflict going and keep contributing to entropy and let’s not forget there are clients who are random billionaires and multinational corporations who will use private forces to secure their assets and people or they can wage war for what ever reason no matter how petty. No matter how petty. And having mercenaries in the world meeting with money lowers the barriers to conflict. It makes going to war easier, and it makes stopping war harder.

  34. It’s sad how the world has declined into a place where money dominates everything – from domestic funding of political parties to foreign policy.

    The idea that the global market is supreme, nation states should just manage the place of their nation state within that regime via corporate led FTA deals and faciliate the interests of coporate profit making over human rights – forsaking sovereignty, security and values for the sake of easier economic activity.

    The irony that this makes transition from hegemony from one super power to another more seamless is lost on some (but not Trump and thus his nationalist rebellion against the international regime the US built).

    Given we have professed to believe in democracy, human rights and multi-lateralism and collective security, the argument that we should not care about another regime’s behaviour, just trade (even when they use debt to take over land in other nations – debt imperialism, build fake islands to steal the economic zones of other nations, lie they will not militarise these atolls and then do, proving what they say cannot be relied on) is frankly nihilistic and amoral – the nadir of post modernism.

    Sure it’s an irony that the fading super power that built the global market regime (for corporate profit making first) placing money at the centre of their order of rule has paved the way to being superceded.

    And its hypocritical that an economic and military super power which leveraged security concerns to spy on the world via technology, now says its successor is a security threat if it has the same capability.

    But 5G’s connection to smart devices means the risk ofmailious activity is now becoming higher. This quite apart from the concerns on the health impact on people and supplier connections to government perfidity. Let others be the canaries in the gold mine – kick for touch.

  35. Wo, almost up to the normal levels of comments on every Kiwi-blog — talkbackers and taxidrivers there. Decision: we don’t want to get above 26 % of international trade with China. Not their authoritarian conduct but their ‘authoritarianism’ alienates, to our bowels, we democracies. I still can’t remember the name of the Chinese dictator but he must address our fundamental distaste for totalitarianism, let alone the proselytising of it.

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