I just don’t even know what to say about this…
Domestic violence bill will pass
The member’s bill would require employers to give victims of domestic violence up to 10 days leave from work, separate from annual leave and sick leave entitlements.
…by the sacred blood of the zombie Jesus, who would refuse domestic violence survivors time off work?
Why, your friend and mine, the fucking National Party…
National will not vote for a domestic violence leave bill proposed by Green MP Jan Logie after two proposed amendments from the party were rejected.
Logie’s Domestic Violence – Victims’ Protection Bill made it out of committee stage on Wednesday night with several amendments accepted – but none from the National Party.
…we all get politics is politics, but there are some things that are beyond politics right?
Separating children from refugee parents when crossing the border, that’s beyond politics.
Banning Muslims from entering your country, that’s beyond politics.
Refusing to allow a person beaten up by their partner from having 10 days off? That is way beyond politics.
This petty spite that lives deep in the heart of every National MP is the reason they and their ilk shouldn’t be allowed back in power. When you see their pus filled hate in actual practice, its easy to see how our suicide rates have skyrocketed, why meth hysteria destroyed so many lives needlessly and why our prisons are full of innocent people who haven’t even been charged with a crime!
Mark Mitchell, National’s war mercenary, is the one throwing the wobbly here because his amendments weren’t included, so remember his desire to make domestic violence survivors suffer needlessly when he jumps to lead the Conservative Party in 2020.
National – the Party of toxicity that just keeps giving.
National should be re-named ‘Nastiall’.
All Natimnal MP’s are now simply in-human nowdays.
Didn’t the gnats say it would hurt small business. As if they care about small business they are already bogged down with compliances. Also it would be hard asking for domestic violence leave it would be embarrassing cause people can be very judgmental including ones boss.
I bet most of those abused would use sick leave.
Did anyone see the full page article pg 4 of the Dominion post today it is titled: Government MPs, Please Explain
how will dusting of outdated employment law help NZ grow? it then goes on to list 4 aspects of the bill that are especially worrying.
I think this is concerning given the growing inequalities, lack of secure work, technology changes, increase immigration to drive down wages, increase of living costs, ladder pulled away to help people do better, abuse of migrant labour, cuts to government agencies who monitor compliance, discrediting of unions and collectives and I suppose the list could go on you get the drift.
of course domestic violence victims should have time off to sort their affairs and work a way out of their situation
…problem is many small businesses can not afford to pay for this
…so maybe it should be the government or better still ACC that foots the wages bill
I like that ACC idea buzzard .
Right now half of all work is unfunded by $1bln low balled. That’s just going on what NGOs consensus. Add in volinteery work like grandmothers ect and it’s $2bln easy. People like Susan St John have been trying to crack open the ACC fund for ages so Pay outs, why?
I don’t think the ACC fund should be targeting. I think they should do it because there’s something woman can’t do in the market place and it’s a massive drain when they have to bring up the next generation on there own.
From a business perspective investing time, training and wages in building someone’s experience isn’t easy do and infinitely harder to replace inexperience with inexperience and you lose continuity and high staff turover is the second most commen cause of bankruptcy. So woman who have children early on have certain advantages over woman who wait to have children because theres no telling if a woman will become a stay at home mom or come straight back to work. Almost always woman stay at home. And that leaves a lot of unfinished work on the tracks. And we don’t want to be run over picking up billions in potential sales.
Personally I think most of this stuff isn’t that complicated. There is a whole bunch of calculations and politics that backstop all this like police or employers but there isn’t any point to business when the fundamental drivers of the economy is stuck in first gear.
Accident or injury compensation is a nice to have. I’m lead to believe that planners are looking at 5 days leave and some submitters say 10 days is more appropriate given the disruptions woman are likely to face while exiting adusive relationships. Putting that aside for one sec, court ordered violence restraining orders placed on males facing domestic violence charges are broken almost 100% of the time, and most are repeat offenders. So police attend over 100,000 domestic violence calls every year. All will reoffend, so those that are charged will continue to offend repeatedly.
On average 13 woman from 2009 to 2013 where murdered as a result of domestic violence. I’m not aware of the average for 2014/15/16 and 2017 but it should be noted that rape helpline and other wrap around services specifically for woman was discontinued until recently. I link hqcs report, it has a set of data that includes males and children who experience violence but I’m just talking about the girls here: https://www.hqsc.govt.nz/our-programmes/mrc/fvdrc/publications-and-resources/publication/1600/
So once the police are called, when should the system stop calling, and who should be making those calls, and why should any one bother is also true. As far as I’m aware, those in abusive relationships, announcing your intention to leave is extremely dangerous. That’s why the likes of women’s refuge is so important: if you have an abusive husband, you need to get out of the danger zone before confessing anything that might provoke a violent response. People in such situations are not in true marriages or relationships, regardless. Almost all failed relationships resign woman to poverty and lower life expectancies. When you’re dealing with numbers this large and terrible it’s barely worth mentioning the rest.
The targets, should be women who ask for divorce so to speak. I don’t think woman should ask for it any more than we should wait for a broken nose to turn into 13 murders a year. One of many factors underlying failures in marriage and family life and neither excusing violent or abusive husbands / partners, should also oppose the allure of easy legislative solutions to any of those problems: rather, a communal effort to rebuild family culture is necessary.
So I believe thinking of this in terms of what’s cheap or what’s expensive is not the correct approach to take. But government funding through ACC is a reasonable point.
We need to be very careful before involving ACC. Their track record on ‘bumping’ off clients from their rolls is well know and shojuld ring alarm bells.
Aside from that, ACC has a thing called “prior conditiions”. Considering a woman can be abused over a long period of time and can make several attempts to leave a relationship before she is successful, it doesnm’t take much imagination to see how ACC will view this as a “prior condition”.
Maybe I’m being cynical, but everything we’ve seen off ACC’s mistreatment of clients does not fill me with confidence that they can carry out this highly sensitive task.
Considering how keen National are to seem “tough on crime”, they seem surprisingly reticent about taking care of the survivors of crime. After all, domestic violence is not an accident, it’s a crime. ACC is not the CCC (Crime Compensation Corporation) and besides, they have such a diabolical record when it comes to dealing with the survivors of sexual abuse that putting survivors of domestic violence on ACC’s books is arguably re-abusing them.
I support the spirit of Jan Logie’s bill, and I’m glad it’s going to pass. But for the record I agree that it would be better to give everyone an extra week (or 10 days) of paid sick leave for any issues related to maintaining their mental health, which would include escaping domestic violence for obvious reasons. Despite National’s squawking, the narrowly defined leave granted by Jan Logie’s bill will be used much less often that such a generic mental health leave would be.
Then there’s that well worn NatACT hobby horse, the supposed burden on small businesses. Reality is, the smaller a business, the more likely it is the employer knows the family and has the opportunity to help nip the problem in the bud before the leave would be needed. This bill just creates added incentive for them to do that, which is a good thing.
Girls? They are not girls!! They are women.
The ACC fund is your typical low, low risk treasury bond portfolio and this style shows up in its patient care and attention ie cheap. Even its sister fund “Kiwi Saver” using all manner of financial instruments struggles to outperform the ACC fund. So financial instruments should be distinct from fundamental workforce disruption issues like all sorts of unscheduled disruptions so to speak. So for these two $40 billion funds to be able to take on more risk it would be appropriate for MSD and any one else who would want to hope on board Jane Logies members bill, be able to interupt workforce, manage these risks, so “Kiwi Saver” and “ACC” fund can take on more risk and make a lot of money.
It just makes perfect sense to me. All the woman are lined up, keen, fund managers have the access, government has the will and there’s a lot of money at risk if this members bill is not successful. But if successful, It just makes sense.
Is it? What research, evidence, says small businesses will not be able to afford this?
You do your own research on how many small businesses fail
…how many are operating on the breadline
…and then ask yourself whether they will want to employ women who are in potentially in an abusive situation
to expect small businesses to carry this risk will have implications for employment of all women
….it will be counterproductive
Whats the cost of training a new employee over giving one time off? Whats the research around that?
Have you had any dealings with acc they are another fucked up government organisation thanks to the gnats plan to try and privatise. ACC are so busy telling everyone their injury is degenerative we had to go to an ACC lawyer John Miller and take them to court . And all my partner wanted was access to medical treatment when he needed it. He works and doesn’t want to be at home twiddling his thumbs.
A lot of NZers had to go to court just to get their fair entitlements being denied to them by ACC. What Is the point of paying a levy.
The women who was my partner case manager @ ACC was one nasty cold hearted bitch. It is sad my partner has paid taxes since he was 16 years old and always worked. He was sent home from work by his boss he didn’t come home himself he continued to work in pain and legs that were giving way at work. Even sadder was all he needed was some treatment.
As for the National Party… they’ve hit rock bottom when they play petty politics with people in abusive relationships. I’m surprised the media hasn’t jumped all over this.
Oh, wait, there’s no blood on the floor. Silly me.
when are people going to realise the gnats don’t care, they care about money and that’s it money not people unless they have money
Sad that only half my comments get publish here.
Aren’t domestic violence sufferers known to stay with their partners? Couldn’t this lead to employors having to give paid leave every other week?
What ever happened to leaving your personal life at home? Isn’t this a criminal issue rather than an employment issue?
Additionally, if this goes through, employors should have the right to ask prospective employees if they have/are suffering domestic violence.
Men suffer a high level of domestic violence in NZ, yet there are not many, if any services for men. So why should an employer have to foot the bill due to lack of social services?
Also, National suck.
Indeed, Zack. It takes multiple attempts for a woman to make the perilous decision to leave an abusive partner. She has generally been beaten, controlled, manipulated, and had all means of independence gradually stripped away. By then a form a psychological domination is in effect.
And even when they do escape, we’ve all heard of instances where they’ve been tracked down by their abusive ex’s and assaulted or murdered.
However, you raise a valid question;
Unfortunately, my guess is that the majority of business-owners are, by nature, National-voters.
They voted for tax-cuts in 2009 and 2010. Hence cuts to government revenue; expenditure; and social services.
God knows I’ve research and written ad nauseum on this issue. The latest only a few weeks ago: https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2018/06/20/mycoplasma-bovis-foot-and-mouth-national-party-and-other-nasty-germs/
Yes, they have been cuts to social services. But around a million New Zealanders voted for it, so this is what we’ve got.
Thanks Frank, very thoughtful answers, as always – don’t forget though, men are victims of domestic violence too.
Okay Zack, so how many NZ men get killed every year by their partners ? What is the basis for your allegation? Where are the stats ?
How many NZ men live in fear and trembling of controlling and physically powerful partners, believing that the abuse has stopped until the next time that it happens again ?
How many men live in an unspoken conspiracy with their abusive partners to hide a damaging, destructive, ongoing, day by day reality ?
How many men end up too paralysed by fear to make any decisions at all ? It’s sometimes called, ‘learned helplessness’, Zack.
How many men face ignorant judges’ comments that it can’t have been that bad or they would have gotten out sooner ?
This bill recognises that the dynamics of exiting an abusive relationship are very complex and very time-consuming, and extend well beyond a relatively simple issue such as accessing social services.
And now is the time for all good men to come to the support of those whom others would destroy, gender irrelevant.
“Okay Zack, so how many NZ men get killed every year by their partners ? What is the basis for your allegation? Where are the stats?”
ANSWER: Firstly it’s not an “allegation” – it’s a serious fact.
ANSWER: In a public discussion document published to support Justice Minister Amy Adams’ review of family violence laws, the difference between the genders was explained.
“The arguments and assaults became more frequent when I told her I wanted to leave.”
“I did not think about it as domestic abuse. I never hit her or fought back, only defended myself which was mostly to restrain her.”
“Abuse towards men happens as well, it’s not ok – just as it’s not ok for men to hit women.”
Christine, let’s not lose perspective here. Acknowledging the very real sexual abuse and domestic violence that men suffer in our country doesn’t in any way diminish our acknowledgement of the very real sexual abuse and domestic violence that women suffer in our country. It’s not an either/ or. For example …
Men kill themselves at a much higher rate than women in Aotearoa.
https://www.nowtolove.co.nz/health/mind/male-suicide-in-new-zealand-32944
It’s arguable that men being abused by their partners kill themselves rather then being killed directly by the partner. It’s also worth pointing out that not all the women suffering in situations of domestic violence are being abused by men, domestic abuse happens in lesbian relationships too.
There are two men’s rights movements. I support the one that works in synergy with the women’s rights movement (see the link above), and it’s not fair to hold that one responsible for the regressive attitudes of the anti-feminist one, which seems to think women can only gain when men lose, and vice-versa. To lump all men’s advocacy into one pidgeon-hole is to do exactly what the anti-feminists do.
That’s quite an allegation to make, Danyl.
Do you have supporting evidence for it?
This is actually true Frank, unfortunately; the under 25 male suicides are world leaders – and we hear less of the tragic e.g. dairy farmers who also regularly sign off.
It is also suggested that one of the reasons that male suicide rates are higher than female, is that men are much better at killing themselves than women are, and less likely to bungle it.
It may well be that abused men choose to sign out; all abuse can be more horrendous in its effects than many could begin to imagine, or want to.
how do you leave you personal issues at home people aren’t light switches Zack.
Put a bell on it. No one worth listening to will ever claim to be an expert. We learn together. And a bit of alcohol, OK.
Being an alpha, being able to make decisions in double quick time, not relying on any one, working 10+ hour days doesn’t come naturally to every one. You’ll make friends with work mates, not all of them will stay till retirement, most never make. But you can still meet up for drinks on the weekend, which ever day your Saturday falls on.
Not too long ago the Green Party made an agreement with the NZ National Party MPs for National to ask more questions at Question Time in parliament. And by way of saying “Thankyou Green Party for allowing us(National)to take advantage of your wonderful offer we will kick you in the teeth…” Well done Green Party as you have allowed the NZ National Party to defeat every Bill you put forward.
The actions of the NZ National Party has however shown to us all how low in the barrel they have truly taken themselves.
Perhaps this is all too obvious proof that the NZ National Party condones and approve of domestic violence in society.
When a Chinese businessman was charged with beating up his wife where was the voice of concern by the MPs of the NZ National Party that it wasn’t acceptable? Mind you it’s likely the very same members of the aforementioned political party who said nothing(which shows a cowardice on their part)are probably the very same ones who accepted a nice little donation to the NZ National Party from the offending Chinese businessman.
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