I’d have thought our role in a war crime that killed and wounded 21 civilians was a bigger story than not wearing bike helmets

1. It’s a shame really. Keating broke the golden rule. He got caught. I think pre-existing laws regarding fraud etc. already handle the situation pretty well. There’s no need for a specific piece of legislation when it comes to the military.

   • Isn’t that why muppet-parae got those cushy positions he turned a blind eye to everything including the gutting of much of our military force

     • They are soldiers waiting for orders to come down the pipe. Good soldiers do not question orders. The public questions orders. We do not want a situation where good soldiers question orders because then bloody revolutions are possible.

       • Befehl ist befehl went out as a defense at the Nuremberg trials

2. Now why isn’t this issue screaming headlines on msm ….? Still can’t find it. Media still protecting the former National government, in particular it’s sneaky, slithering, lying, two faced, reptilian PM at the time, John Key!

   Can’t hide this one under the bed for too long, before it explodes out into the public domain, leaving one hell of a mess!

   • They are protecting their own Mary they are all in the same circles we have always known the bias of our media.

   • Yes Mary Hoking columns in the Herald attack Jacinda attack the Auckland council attack anything remotely left thinking, yet never once attacked Key or National. Such blatant respect for democracy by hosking but unfortunately people believe what they read. In the case of this criminal war story, where are you now Mr Hosking?

3. you underestimate the complete and utter infantilisation of the media in new zealand.

4. The military have got away with being a law unto themselves for far too long.
   What we need to do is stop behaving like this is the first time civilian casualties have occurred. It has happened throughout the history of warfare but, in the past, the media, even if they found it, were banned from publication. If many of us investigated our ancestors we may even find that our parents/grandparents were involved in such events in the world wars of last century – not a nice thought is it!

   • Not just our Military our Police need the broom to a good clean out

     • Damn right Michelle. I think Key and National enabled the police with powers beyond that of the human rights bill.

5. We already know the so-called news media is a propaganda system and distraction system, and will churn out garbage and lies ad infinitum.

   ‘If you are DUMB enough to not wear a bike helmet, you shouldn’t have to wear a bike helmet on one condition – that if you crash without a bike helmet you get no public health care whatsoever.’

   A a can of worms there, Martyn.

   Dos that mean if you are dumb enough to play rugby and get a serious injury you get no public health care whatsoever?

   Does that mean if you are dumb enough to drive at high speed in a car and crash it causing yourself injury you get no public health care whatsoever?

   Dos that mean if you are dumb enough to go mountain climbing in jandals and fall and suffer serious injury you get no public health care?

   Does that mean if you are dumb enough to smoke cigarettes for years and end up with lung cancer you get no public health care whatsoever?

   Does that mean if you go out in a boat without wearing a lifejacket and nearly drown you get no public health care?

   ‘Putting up with smug cyclists and their greedy cycle lanes’

   Hmmm! It is, of course, car drivers who are the smug and greedy ones, demanding the right to gobble up resources, pollute the atmosphere as a direct consequence of operating their grossly overpowered contraptions, and expecting NZ to participate in military operations overseas that facilitate looting of resources by global corporations.

   • I agree with both Martyn and yourself. In comparison to the war crime, the Helmet story pales into insignificance. Yet I do actually agree on this post. I am a cyclist and I do where a helmet, I would like the choice though to not wear a helmet, should the ride permit. I wear a helmet because I cycle to work. I help the environment this way, It helps with keeping fit and our health system funded for those who need it. I ride to help with my osteoarthritis( I have a new hip and require the other hip done)The hip surgery was not required for 4 years due to strengthened muscle tissue caused by cycling. If I was going for a Sunday cycle around the park with no traffic, I would love to cycle helmet free.

     How do you measure this choice against all the examples given by AFEWKNOWTHETRUTH ?

6. Why is Keatings head not being called for, no our inept media would rather focus on labours stupid hands down the pants issue. Nothing to see move on. Same as jhonkeys bull about them collecting mega- data

7. My grandfather fought at Gallipoli, was wounded, patched up, then went on to fight in the Western Front until Armitisce Day.

   He never spoke about the WWI, until on his death bed, in a delirium, he restalked the killing fields of Gallipoli and Flanders as if he was back there.

   He repeatedly, I was told, grabbed Mum’s arm thinking she was a number of different soldier mates in the trenches and said, ‘shoot first’.

   A different war certainly. But I believe my grandfather’s advice means I am here to write this email and that every soldier on the frontline in a war has the right to ‘shoot first’, if you think you are in danger. What if five Taliban had been behind the victims ready to gun down our troops as they lowered their guard seeing children?

   • Had the SAS identified their targets as required by their own rules of engagement, and had they determined that there were no civilians present as required by Gen Petraeus’s own combat rules for US and allied troops in Afghanistan, this would not have happened.

     This is not a story of collateral damage, and no amount of retrospective spin can make it so. If anyone thinks that the NZDF shot at and shelled innocent women, children, and elderly people in case there were Taliban hiding behind them, then reading Hit & Run will clarify what happened and how far removed from reality any such suggestions are.

     I bought Hit & Run on the Thursday; read it through; then I read it through again, finishing on Saturday night.Went online and saw that Bill English was attending an Adele concert in Auckland, which frankly, compounded my shock. I didn’t know how he could.

     Lt-Gen Jerry Mateparae was up there in the Hindu Kush that night; he was present during tactical decision making, watched it on live video; he should be able to say what happened; it is surprising that international media haven’t questioned him.

     Would Mateparae say that the rule of law and human rights don’t apply to poor subsistence peasants in Afghanistan ? Of course not.

     • Like me you have never been a soldier. But I am the grandson of one. ‘Shoot first’ – or go home in a body bag.

       Did our troops ask to be there? Rhetorical question.

8. come on Rodders this was a revenge mission (childish and mindless killing) and is this what our sas are for who is to blame for this?
   Our people went to war and too many died and when the survivors came back to our country they were treated like shit is that alright to treat men who fought so they could be properly accepted and it be wiped under the table.
   ps. my father told me this and his father told him

9. Health care distributed according to perceived culpability, nice.
   No helmet, no public health care…so, you choose to sit on the couch drinking mountain dew and get like cancer or a heart attack no public health care…
   Yeah, lets go down that path…

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