I think Donald Trump is a narcissistic buffoon who has been elected as the Republican Nominee by angry white Nascar Dads who want him as a wrecking ball to smash the cultural, political and economic elites who have supposedly caused their perceived loss of privilege.
When you are so used to being the winner, equality feels like discrimination.
Voting for Trump is like voting for Brexit. A mad final strike that levels everyone to the level of hurt you are holding onto.
For the entirety of the campaign, Hillary has delighted in highlighting the grossly offensive racist and sexist trash that has given him his Nascar Dad cred. The phenomenal number of viewers tuning in were expecting a fanged monster who spits acid between devouring babies.
Trump didn’t do that in the debate. Horrifically he pulled everything back to create the gravitas that Independents and Republican’s need.
He did that.
Damn him to hell.
But he did that.
Don’t think the Republicans aren’t incredibly clever.
On Twitter and Facebook, we all laughed at the shallow nature of his points and the obvious depth of Hillary’s and scream ‘what debate were you watching’.
Grimly, the same debate, but looking at it through the eyes of those who are open to influence and Trump’s toned down reasonableness would have surprised those voters.
Now, obviously this maniac is a narcissistic buffoon, but the Republican’s have cleverly polished him and he surprised the viewers, and that’s not what should have happened.
Hillary should have wiped the floor with him. She didn’t.
Trump ended up agreeing with Hillary on many things which I think is an attempt to bait Bernie NeverHillary’s.
Trump consolidated the Republican base and just edged closer to being the President.
“Oh God no, Trump won”…bit premature with that post Martyn, what you mean by ‘won’ was that he wasn’t frothing at the mouth and shouting…does that mean he won?, doubtful! i’d give it to Clinton by 7-3 outta 10.
China is already protectionist and America is heading that way no matter what party wins the US Presidency. That posses many questions for us in New Zealand. The cost of doing business in the US is going to rise and we better start producing the nessecary materials for civilisation here at home instead of begging other countries to provide New Zealand with the base materials of life like steel and chemicals and minerals.
Risk is materialising everywhere and globalisation is its target.
You are right – that steelworks in Glenbrook will soon be a strategically vital asset.
I don’t even know what to make of NZ planning. I look at the Auckland rail link and gasp at the possible 3 billion for 40ks of line!
Where as its estimated to cost 200 million to rehabilitate the Whangarei line. It’s just pure madness coming from these free market idiots.
The majority could march on parliament and hang all of them and they would be right
The AKL rail system is electric and sustainable and people friendly and economical and cuts pollution and cuts traffic congestion. Why doesn’t spending billions on motorways cause this much angst?
Well, I choose to disagree. Trump too a few “good” swings at Hillary, yes, early on, and later on the odd occasion, but overall Hillary did clearly have the upper hand and delivered some good arguments.
While I dislike them both, I think Hillary is the lesser risk and evil in this race. I saw most of the debate live on Al Jazeera English (on Freeview) this afternoon.
Trump is a great manipulator, he looked ridiculous though, defending the undefendable, e.g. the earlier claims that Obama was not born in the US, from which he only retracted very recently.
He will though continue to appeal to the angry, the new white middle and lower class underdogs, who see their past security and living standards vanish, it does not matter what is the truth, he has definitely got his following.
But I think it will not be enough for him to win.
He was incredibly generous to Hillary especially when he agreed with all her phoney points on Cyber security, as he had a real point he could well have scored through her whole phony front when she said we have to strengthen our joint efforts to share our global “intelligence facilities” by “Hovering up all those tools”!!!!!!!!
What did you say Hillary???????
Wasn’t you the one that had no security on your own personal server, with your 30.000 emails????????
She would have chocked on her own fumbled words trying to cover it up again!!!!!
Trump showed incredibly strong restraint and must now have a sore bitten tongue after that restraint.
So yes he dispelled all the monster evil MSM she carefully built up about him being to unstable to be president.
He has edged very much closer to being a more suitable leader then Hillary, as he shoved the TPPA at her and she handled that very badly by changing the debate to blaming him for other side-lined issues rather than fronting this evil Corporate plan tom control all Government for many years ahead.
Trump is the only ome not interested in TPPA here.
Right on clean green. Clinton was like a student remembering all her lines.If Trump had interrupted her she would have lost the thread and stumbled. Clinton spent weeks studying for the debate, she must have stood in front of the mirror practicing smiling.she would’nt have smiled much if Trump had challenged her more,he was restrained,but next time he will probably let her have it.
The moderator challenged Trump on the Iraq war,the moderator has been proved wrong,as many reports from journals at the start of the war has shown, Trump saying he was against it and that it would distabalise the middle east which it has.
Trump was a bit defensive, but that was is first time debating for president. He gave more policy that meant something and with conviction. Clinton gave the same promises she has been giving for years. Clinton caused more problems overseas and made more money from foreign interests for her moneybox The Clinton Foundation ,they all expect favours in return.
Trump will do more good for America whatever his perceived faults , he has what it takes,Clinton has nothing.
I agree Cleangreen.
There are so many opportunities (corruption scandals) to put the boot in to Hillary, a decent debater would easily make mincemeat out of her.
However the objective is not to win the debate, it is to win the election. I suspect the Trump camp deliberately toned it down so as not let Hillary gain the sympathy vote.
I think the three of you should connect your ears & eyes to your brain then watch the debate again.
i think you should agree to disagree not tell others how to think based on your twisted logic.Think a bit slower with facts and an open mind.
The same as you telling me how to think? Yea right.
Another dictator there ELLE
+100 CLEANGREEN…I think the closer it gets to the Election the more deadly the Trump’s attacks will be on Clinton …just as they were on Jeb Bush and Ted Cuz…he is saving his fire power for the last…like the deal maker he is
I agree Mike in Auckland. Hillary was more prepared and had the better of the two. The mediator was biased- I was not really his role to grill Trump.
I suspect the next debate will be more interesting !
100% GARIBALDI
Let’s hope so. But of the many in my US family their is one crazy, and I mean a real loon, and guess who he like. My family is realtively sane compare to the masses of white poor in the backwoods.
Not this time Martyn. Clinton clearly won. Clinton highlighted Trump as a racist bigot, sexist pig that he is. Highlighted by being taken to court for not letting out his rentals to Afro Americans in the 70’s.
The one question I have for anyone, would you trust Trump with his finger on the button of a nuclear bomb?
Being president is more about directing the economy and achieving foreign policy objectives without going to war with Russia. Racist bigotry and sexist pigism are largely irrelevant.
I think I would trust Trump’s button finger more than Hilary’s. Unlike her, Trump is not so stupid as to think the US could win a nuclear war with Russia.
“Unlike her, Trump is not so stupid”
Seriously! Trump is thick as batshit. How many times has he been bankrupt. Lets see his tax returns or lack of them. The man inherited money, not created it, he talks rhetoric with no substance. Someone who has been bankrupt once let alone 3 times, should be nowhere near the purse strings. Even worse, he believes in the trickle down effect. Give me 30 years experience in Washington than a bigot who only want’s power.
I would you desist from misquoting me. Next time use my full sentense.
Not this time Martyn. Clinton clearly won. Clinton highlighted Trump as a racist bigot, sexist pig that he is. Highlighted by being taken to court for not letting out his rentals to Afro Americans in the 70’s.
The one question I have for anyone, would you trust Trump with his finger on the button of a nuclear bomb?
Dropping the corporate business tax rate from 35% to 15% will create jobs and wealth for all american said Trump, ba hahahaha! How does a millionaire become a billionaire… by not giving any away!
If a Trump presidency, assuming one eventuates, fails it won’t be because he is a racial bigot or a sexist pig, but because of the way he governs the country. In the actual debate Hillary concentrated on irrelevencies like his bankruptcies and his politically incorrect attitudes, while the Donald drove home his views on offshoring of jobs and the stupidities of the various free trade agreements and the damage they were dong to the US economy, and what he would do to rectify matters. MRegardless of appearances that makes him the winner of the debate.
Hilary’s points are relevant for the obvious reasons, bringing up the fact that Trump has been bankrupted 6 times, has huge debts, doesn’t pay tax and has a history of not paying his workers is not a good model to draw on with which to run a country is it? Trump doesn’t even employ Americans in his companies, opting for cheap foreign labour like Poland for example. How can Trump build a wall when his own business is in Mexico and he employs Mexicans?
It’s because he’s a racist , a bigot and sexist,that he’ll never be president Mikesh, work it out I’m sure even you can do the math.
Who cares?
The US president has very little real power, Obama’s foreign policy is indistinguishable from George W’s, and all the freaking out and/or sneering by people on the left is just making Trump’s supporters love him all the more.
All he’s doing is bringing attitudes to the surface that have gone underground – it might even do some good in the long run.
As for Brexit – why would any country want to be part of the Europe economic system when it’s central bank is totally controlled by the private banks?
Yes people are hurting but lets not get caught up in the emotional hysteria around Trump – he’ll just do what he’s told as president, just like Hilary will.
Hillary is a mouthpiece of the establishment, military-industrial-kleptocrat complex. At least she seems sane. Trump is a dangerously unstable lunatic, immune to facts and reason.
Despite having huge respect for what you have to say and that I normally agree with your summations, in this instance will have to disagree with you Martyn. Watched with friends and the consensus is, is that Hillary Clinton won it. She showed up Donald Trump for what he is, he showed himself up for what he is, he is just out for himself, what a hypocrite, despite trying his hardest to appear reasonable.
How many presidential candidates admit, like Hillary Clinton did, that trickle down economics has not worked, has failed and is the cause for the GFC? She said “the last thing we need to do is to go back to the policies that failed us in the first place.”
Its an illusion of choice Trump isn’t going to win Their system doesn’t work like that? He’s there for the media to hate and to lose so that people won’t be surprised who they put into the white house there system is rigged https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC_wjQtfhZQ
100% KELLY
It is truly the power of the corporate MSM like NZ that will decide Clinton’s return here.
This is not democracy!
It is Corporatism plain and simple.
It was definitely rigged to get Key the worst PM we ever had, elected here.
Ain’t that the truth KAPPANZ
Either way the TPP is rooted. Trump did say he would place massive tariffs on imported goods that are produced overseas by American companies and drop company tax massively, good on him.
Hillary said she would raise taxes massively for the rich. That would ensure more American products were produced offshore. But both of them will kill the TPP and Trump will try to turn back trading agreements already in place.
Was it just me or did Trump completely loose his way at the end of the debate?
A good win for Hillary. But Trump would have appealed to all those that have lost their jobs to offshore manufacturers.
Sounds crazy but Andrew Little should maybe try the same in NZ. How many workers have lost their jobs to offshore factories?
Sadly I think Bradbury is onto something… Listening back on NatRad, they played clips of Trump banging out lines about TPP – how H supported it all the way, until T started railing against it… And how Obama is still pushing it. All true.
Despite the educrats handing H the victory, he landed some hits.
The only thing I have to hold on to is that if someone is anti-TPP, they must be smart enough to see through Trump… Right…?
Agree, I think Trump did enough to edge Hillary out, something about his voice makes you feel more comfortable. Hillary’s arguments were sharp and painful and hard to listen to.
But they are both despicable, the two worst candidates I have ever seen. Bush, Reagan, Gore, Howard Dean, anybody with an atom of humanity, would have wiped the floor with these 2 reptilians cut from the same cloth of corporate greed and entitlement.
Shouldn’t of been called ‘ a debate’, it should of been called ‘ screwed either way’.
Ha ha Good words Kim Dandy.
It’s a typical US circus, and we will suffer with either side likely but Hillary is war hungry to send our men to was again sadly.
Yes. There wasn’t much “debate” in the sense of one party putting up an argument and the other party trying to refute it.
Trump said what i thought he would say…not much.
Where is the detailed plan and grasp of the problems in the states and how to fix them and articulating that in a calm and reasonable manner and staying on cue , he seemed to be all over the place and apart from a couple of one liners he was incoherent and aggressive.
But he pushed i am not a politician line but the secretary is very successfully and the country is in a mess with the record deficit of 20 trillion dollars.
And laid down the challenge of releasing his tax returns when Secretary Clinton releases her 30,000 emails its not going to happen.
We, like the USA, are now an invasive weed fertilised by the Media. The main ingredient of the fertiliser is money. Or perhaps more correctly, debt derived from the greed money pimped at us that the MSM instills in us. Not art, not culture, ( If the Canadians shun the Crown, they’ll find that out to their horror. ) not peace, beauty, style, class or grace.
Money. Money, greed and debt.
trump and clinton? Boring, cheap, tedious, charlatans. Tweedle dumb and Tweedle dumber.
Let the Americans have them both. It doesn’t really matter.
Did you note, TV3 even sent Patrick Gower back to the US, to report on the TV duels and debates that have started.
The MSM is almost obsessed with what goes on in the US, and this sadly drags many ordinary people in this also, as the MSM still manage to determine what “topics” and “issues” are talked about at work and at home.
We seem to be prepared to become the next member state of their empire, or at least one of their “overseas territories”, well, in some ways we already seem to be anyway, going by the Golden Arches and similar outfits all over the country here.
“When you are so used to being the winner, equality feels like discrimination.”
For a lot of the USA’s white working class, you’d have to be in your mid-40s at least to remember what it was like to be a winner once you left high school. I’d say far more likely that they receive every day the messages from their culture that they *should* be winners, and yet when they look around the room, when they check their bank account 2 days after pay day, when they walk out of the grocery store with less than what they wanted, they know themselves for losers. And US culture is unforgiving on losers. Mark Ames had it nailed a decade ago when he wrote Going Postal.
You are probably right Martyn. The lesser of 2 evils but only just. Surely in the U.S. there is someone better.
Yeah but you don’t like Burney Sanders
is ‘burney’ bernies’ evil twin..?
Trump showed how to take a strategic win out of a tactical loss. Martin is quite correct; this is an affirmation exercise for the converted, not a proselytising event. Those who think Hillary or Trump won’t are those already in agreement with one or the other. Hillary gave what they expected, nothing different. Trump showed a different side, he may be the devil incarnate but he’s a clever devil.
100% Nick JJ.
Hillary was looking down at her podium screen every time she listened to trump then had her notes revived in her head before responding which showed she is no match for trump on a one to one off the cuff argument, so rump is the real item and she is just a trumpet as her words were straight from corporate agenda spin not from her own head, and we should be worried here as she is a tool of corporate agenda spin and trump is not.
an interesting fact is that clinton beat trump by the same margin that mitt romney beat obama in their first debate..in ’08..
(as to what conclusions to draw from that little factoid – i haven’t got a fucken clue..)
Nope. The worm showed Trump won
These are the only worms who thought that Trump won (and Bradbury in the OP above of course, for reasons of his own):
http://www.salon.com/2016/09/27/trumpwon-is-bogus-a-reminder-that-online-polls-are-mostly-meaningless/
The worm is a poll taken of the live audience reaction which trum won. You wouldn’t hear about that because the results does not fit the major network narrative
It’s really hard to tell who won and who lost from this distance.
I was consulting in the USA during the run-up to the infamous Bush/Gore election and listened to the debates on TV.
To me and to the (liberal) media it was clear that Gore had won the debates: He was eloquent, he understood policy and he was sophisticated.
But pundits now recognise he actually lost those debates. To Middle American Gore came across as:
> The city slicker in a an expensive suit
> The DC insider
> The loathsome lawyer
> The intellectual who had ‘swallowed a dictionary’
We cannot easily put ourselves into the head of the average, God fearing ‘Merikan, living in a small town in the Midwest with a barely adequate education and no knowledge of anything outside of the USA.
There is zero intelligent analysis of Trump, just the “he’s a redneck bigot” angle.
Bottom line is Clinton is far more dangerous. If you have the Bush’s voting for you then that says a lot.
The only issue here I believe is the coming war with Russia. Clinton will deliver the nice war the neo-cons want. Trump will, at best negotiate out of it, and at worst, delay it.
I would hold my nose and vote Trump.
1000% STEVE
She (Hillary is from the war monger atable and she loves to see war again, remember when they invaded Libya and Iraq?
She gleefully said “We came we saw he died.”
Meanwhile Trump wanted to assasinate Gadaffi for his horrendous war crimes, then two years later hosted him on his front lawn and bragged about how much money he made off him.
Exactly right Steve!
The average voter needs to be reminded of White water, Payment for Pardons, The Clinton Foundation and a host of other scandalous and fraudulent deals she has done during her career.
Trump on the other hand is probably just semi-competent
😉
Yes – both Clinton and Trump are deeply unpleasant human beings. The system is so polluted and corrupt it beggars belief.
Like Brexit I believe the real choice for voters is to dislodge the system – if only temporarily – by forcing a change (in the sense that ANY change is enough to SLOW the maniacs in charge).
This is what we have come to – hoping a slowing down will buy us a little more time.
Like a hostage begging for their life…
Who even cares which one of these two classic examples of egoism outpointed the other?
Being seen as being a sexist and a racist hasn’t damaged pols on either half of the american empire party and it is plain foolish to imagine it will this time around.
It is important to remember that prez ’16 will be decided in a handful of ‘battleground states’ such as Utah, Ohio, Virginia, North Carolina & Florida – none of which highly value their leaders being what they term as ‘politically correct’.
Take a gander at US blogs and you will see that for about 95% of voters the ‘winner’ was believed to be whoever the poster believed should win.
“Lesser of two evils” is a disaster of a strategy for ClintonInc because not only does it leave itself open to the reasonable call that Clinton is more evil it offers none of that which persuades so-called swing voters – hope.
What can a swinging voter hope for if he/she votes Clinton? More of the same neoliberal garbage as Obama – keep on turning the US into an economic shithole?
As vapid and unachievable as Trump’s promises are, they do at least promise to make things better.
Clinton on the other hand offers nothing but the certainty of war – big war, and not even swivel eyed slack jawed red necked loons believe that could be a ‘good thing’.
ClintonInc imagine that war is a viable way to solve the looming economic crisis simply because none of them nor their friends plan on being anywhere close to the sharp end of a war stick.
The rest of us may not fare so well.
They say a country gets the governance it deserves. Well if enough dumbass phucwit rednecks vote for Drumph, the dumbest phucwit ever, then they deserve to live through the havoc his presidency will create. Unfortunately we in the rest of the world will be badly affected by this ignorant racist nutcase. Let us hope Hillary wins and brings some sanity to the country. After all, she has been in office before and did not bring the world down, in fact she succeeded in very good diplomacy. Hillary for President.
They say a country gets the governance it deserves. Well if enough dumbass phucwit rednecks vote for Drumph, the dumbest phucwit ever, then they deserve to live through the havoc his presidency will create. Unfortunately we in the rest of the world will be badly affected by this ignorant racist nutcase. Let us hope Hillary wins and brings some sanity to the country. After all, she has been in office before and did not bring the world down, in fact she succeeded in very good diplomacy. Hillary for President.
HANITTY SAID IT RIGHT IT ALL DEPENDS ON WHAT YOU WANT TO HEAR.
I LISTEN FIRST WITHOUT ANY PRE-POLITICAL AGENDA AS NEUTRAL LISTENER WAITING TO BE SWAYED, AND WOUND UP HEARING VERY LITTLE FROM HER EXCEPT SHE APPEARED TO BE PAYING TO CORPORATE WASHINGTON.
Come on, all he ranted on about was the past; the small amount of money he started with ($40k)!!; how much property he had; how smart he was at tax evasion; the dreaded Chinese. I could go on and on with the nonsense he spouted and sniffed his way through the debate. Not one constructive policy to be heard. The man is a complete tosser and if people can’t evaluate how shallow and illiterate he is then goodness knows what havoc he will cause. Hillary made mincemeat of him; she has more poise, intelligence and knowledge of the world in her little finger than this racist, sexist and complete egotistical idiot.
I think you must have been away making a coffee or something when he talked about the offshoring of jobs, and the alleged foolishness of various “free trade” agreements, and what he would do to rectify mattersh; and I suppose you were off for a leak when he talked about his proposed 20 percentage point tax reduction.
June is completely correct in what she has said. And further re TPPA, like John key Trump is wedded to corporate Wall street and when push comes to shove, like John key, Trump will do as he is told. Make no mistake about.
Has any one not heard the adage, people will only hear what they want to hear?.
People will tell you what you want to hear with a view to getting you on their side so that you will vote for them.
People voting C will only hear what she has to say and bag T, people voting T will only hear what he has to say and bag C.
At the end of the day the proof is in the pudding on voting day.
“Voting for Trump is like voting for Brexit.”
Hang on a tick. Are you suggesting that anyone wanting to restore sovereignty to the UK is a racist xenophobe?
I would remind all that Jeremy Corbyn was a Eurosceptic as was the late Tony Benn.
The EU is part of the globalist corporate machine, as is TPPA. I don’t see much wrong in being opposed to this
i can’t vote for myself because my comments aren’t there…where have they gone?….down a black hole under the post box?
…where is Dr Who?
Hillary will make the world safe for Monsanto, Goldman Sachs and war. Martyn’s support for Hillary and opposition to Brexit indicates he is an establishment toady.
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