The Maori Party are finally flexing their political muscle with their possible alliance with MANA and the Maori King’s endorsement, but it’s the muscle of a Political Party on its last legs, and their possible success has many challenges – namely Winston Peters.
The first thing the Maori Party must do is get a deal with MANA. In almost every Maori Electorate, MANA has the numbers to stop the Maori Party from winning by splitting the vote and allowing Labour to win. This requires MANA and the Maori Party to agree which electorates they will stand in and which ones they will not, without that, the Maori Party doesn’t win.
After a deal with MANA, the most complicated part of the Maori Party’s dance must begin.
If the Maori Party look like they will become the new ‘king maker’, watch Winston Peters capitalise on this. National use the Maori Party as political camouflage, it makes their policies look a lot less racist because they have the Maori Party as a partner in Government, but National would dump the Maori Party in favour of NZ First in a second if they thought the relationship might cost them the election, and Winston would see to it that it did.
Winston has used Maori nationalism as a bogey man in the past, and he’d do it again to keep his power.
This problem will be the same for Labour. Winston will accept a Green-Labour-NZ First Government, but they would not tolerate Green-Labour-NZ First-MANA-Maori Party Government.
The extra complication for the Maori Party is that they could never really be National’s majority because the expectations put upon the Maori Party sitting at the table would be far greater if they are providing the majority than the political camouflage role they perform at the moment.
So where does that leave the Maori Party and those NZers desperate for a change in Government?
The only way we get a truly progressive Government in 2017 would be if Labour-Green + MANA-Maori Party had the majority.
where is NZF in that mix?
…sorry NZF is to the left of the Labour Party and the Maori Party on many issues…and was certainly better than the Greens on their Red Peak fiasco flag
…so I don’t think your goal will have much traction with the Left or with the ordinary NZ voter
( the Maori Party should be left to wither and die on its right wing Nact branch)
“…so I don’t think your goal will have much traction with the Left or with the ordinary NZ voter ( the Maori Party should be left to wither and die on its right wing Nact branch)”
Agreed.
If Labour ceases to be so naive to dismiss the Mana party who hold values closer to the Labour roots than any other party then a working partnership can resolve.
Mana thrust looks to be very compatible to 1935 Labour principles, the roots of working class power.
Many on the general roll would vote for Mana if they thought it could have the numbers to be effective. Once numbers built Mana’s effectiveness will a decisive factor.
The Maori party has little principle and now dances with corporate elites.
Morgan is a joke. What does he stand for.
The main problem and challenge for the Mana Movement or party is the public perception that is is “Hone’s party”. Most think it is a kind of alternative Maori party, with some support from the “left fringes”.
And the more communications or flirtations there may occur between Hone and the leaders of the Maori Party, the more this public image issue gets fueled or “proved” as probably being right.
Mana can only succeed if it presents as a not race based left of centre, workers supporting and principled party, which may give Maori an equal and loud voice, but if it continues to be perceived as being the party of Hone and Maori activism, it will not gain all that much traction.
Also have many not forgotten the association with Dotcom, and while it was much exaggerated and misrepresented by the MSD, that collaboration with his Internet Party and Dotcom’s personal ambitions, has not helped.
Perception is very important to many voters, and even if it is based on untruth or flawed truth, they still tend to pay attention to it, and get turned off if there are too many questions they do not see answered, or too many things they do not grasp.
Thus I feel it would be the end of Mana if a close collaboration happens with the Maori Party.
yes I voted Mana/Internet last time because of the calibre of their policies for New Zealanders and its people…Harawira, Sykes, Minto , Harre
…but unfortunately thanks to the Labour Party and Kelvin Davis my vote wasnt counted ( it was free vote for jonkey Nact and I am still angry with the Labour Party)
and I think Lusk is friends with some in the Labour Party
http://www.radionz.co.nz/national/programmes/mediawatch/audio/201779410/dirty-politics-players-back-in-the-frame
Lusk is John key black ops operative, he lies for a living. Who believes anything that egomaniac says. Duncan Garner is just as bad. Call it for what it is, National party dirty political shitstirring.
Hone admitted on a TDB interview that what he tried to do in 2014 backfired.
Kick the Maori party out and Peter Dunne, and the Nats can’t form a government. Winston Peter’s will never support that corrupt mob and neither will Hone as long as the Maori party support the nats, so there won’t be an accord between them, besides Flavell is no friend of Hone Harawira.
Pity Labour did not try to do a strategy with Hone Harawira last election instead of helping National.
Yep, water under the bridge and time to move on, BUT Labour need to learn from mistakes and start to get alliances even if they are not public.
NZ First is a lot more left wing than the Maori party and Labour in many areas.
I’d like to see an alliance between Labour/Green NZ First and Mana being the political party for Maori. A lot is said about Winston Peters not liking various people but at the end of the day, I’m sure he cares about the legacy he leaves NZ and propping up the Natz to destroy our country further, seems to not be on the cards. Therefore Harawira and Peters do have some common ground. They don’t need to be buddies just strategically be able to tolerate each other to stop the Natz policies and corruption taking further hold in NZ next election.
If Maori Party and Mana support each other, what happens when National offers The Maori party a bribe to support them a 4th term, we all know they will take it, that then leaves Mana splitting up and possibly aiding National in again.
So that would be my big concern. Labour should extend the olive branch to Hone privately – Labour fucked up last time – work out all the scenarios and do the right thing.
Quite frankly with middle NZ and all the lies from spin doctors, Labour and Mana are better to keep any strategic alliance a secret.
“Pity Labour did not try to do a strategy with Hone Harawira last election instead of helping National.”
How with Dotcom in the mix?
Hone knows, and he has the guts to admit it. I honestly believe if Hone Harawira had of stood independently he would have retained his seat.
It wasn’t just Labour that F up. A lot of people need to learn from their mistakes. Winston refusing to make a call on his position didn’t help and the Greens made a hash of it by implying they would support the National government just made things even messier. Lets face it, 2014 must go down in history as being one of the most weirdest elections ever. But I fear Hone is going to repeat his mistake by aligning himself with the tory Maori party.
Yep Labour have been saying for quite some time now that NZ First is on the same page, as too are the Greens and Mana. I agree with the other points you have made.
“Labour and Mana are better to keep any strategic alliance a secret.”
Hell…yeah!!!!
I have zero problem with Dotcom. In fact since he took down Banks (until that handy US witness appeared) and stood up to Key I like him a lot more!
The sad thing is the law in NZ is supposed to be innocent until proven guilty. Sadly with many whistleblowers and political opponents now in prison or exile around the world such as Snowdon, I never thought that NZ and the NZ opposition would support finding someone guilty before they have been found guilty by a court of law, and even worse illegally spied on by the GCSB to boot! They did it to Phil Goff, Ding a ling, Labour – just cos John Key says someone is guilty or the US lobbyists and the GCSB is spying on them, does not make them guilty. Helen Clark and the international intelligence was wrong about Ahmed Zaoui. They are a joke. Too much funding and not enough transparency.
A herald poll actually found more of the public believed Dotcom than John Key so just a bad decision by Labour and they should not try to blame it on Dotcom.
Labour had appalling strategy and behaviour to each other and other parties last election and the public let them know it on election day.
Lessons need to be learnt. Mana was more popular for party votes than The Maori Party last election.
I never said I didn’t like Dotcom, because I do like him and have posted that on various threads in the past.
It wasn’t about “NZ and the NZ opposition would support finding someone guilty before they have been found guilty by a court of law”
Anyone with their eyes open knows Dotcom has been stitched up by John key. Dotcom is a scapegoat that the US want to make an example of. John key broke the law, so did the US and he changed the law to make what was illegal, legal. IMO the criminals here is John key and his National government.
Dotcom should have kept out of the party politics, I didn’t see any other opposition party coming forward either Save NZ so it wasn’t just Labour was it? And I don’t see how playing the blame game is helpful 2 years on, the political landscape has shifted since then. If Hone can recognize what he tried to do backfired, why can’t you?
+100 SAVE NZ…Dotcom has been made a scapegoat …which is dishonest ( the blame rests squarely with the Labour Party and Kelvin Davis imo)
I liked Dotcom also..his heart is in the right place and he added something to the Mana Party
I do not recall Hone blaming Dotcom for his Election loss …in fact quite the contrary
“Dotcom has been made a scapegoat …”
Which is what I said too Chooky and you haven’t been listening to Hone Harawira himself.
“he added something to the Mana Party”
Yeah, and it backfired, which is what Hone said.
Hone doesn’t go around blaming people Chooky but he’s now distancing himself from it and said it was a mistake and it backfired. Listen to his interviews.
+100 SAVE NZ…you are always spot on in your analysis
That is a matter of opinion.
Are you ignoring what Hone Harawira himself said Chooky?
+100 SAVE NZ…Dotcom has been made a scapegoat …which is dishonest ( the blame rests squarely with the Labour Party and Kelvin Davis imo)
I liked Dotcom also..his heart is in the right place and he added something to the Mana Party
I do not recall Hone blaming Dotcom for his Election loss …in fact quite the contrary
MP Nash of the Labour Party and a friend of Labour MP Kelvin Davis is friends with and has had dealings with Lusk
‘Nash embarassed by links to Simon Lusk’
http://www.newshub.co.nz/tvshows/story/nash-embarassed-by-links-to-simon-lusk-2015111718
…”Story also revealed Labour MP Stuart Nash has used Mr Lusk’s services and showed Mr Nash’s friends paid $20,000 to Mr Lusk to see if Mr Nash could set up an independent political party and ditch Labour….”
Why would you believe John Key’s black ops man who lies for a living? Don’t you understand National’s dirty politics after all this time Chooky?
“Dotcom has been made a scapegoat …”
Which is what I said too Chooky and you haven’t been listening to Hone Harawira himself.
“he added something to the Mana Party”
Yeah, and it backfired, which is what Hone said.
Hone doesn’t go around blaming people Chooky but he’s now distancing himself from it and said it was a mistake and it backfired. Listen to his interviews.
You forget the Maori party are bought and paid for by the National party cabinet club, how can Hone or Labour for that matter support the Maori party on that basis?
Labour are likely to have to publicly write Mana off until they prove their party is no longer largely made up of absolutists, a demanding requirement for many in that movement – I exclude Hone in this, but include John Minto – who are genetically unable to meet that criterion.
In the meanwhile I suspect that Labour, whatever they say in public, are likely to carry a grudge against Marama Fox for the rest of her political career. She will know there is now a political contract out on her and thus she has no choice but to hitch her wagon to National. And that means no deal with Mana while she remains co-leader. (Maybe look for a Tau Henare-style list hook-up for her after The Maori Party loses its last seat and collapses.)
Labour isn’t rejecting the Mana Party NZ first is. And Andrew Little didn’t reject the Maori party David Cunliffe did. But Peters has said he won’t work with Maori Party or Mana.
Well said Seb.
I like the sentiment but the MaorI Party appear to me to represent Maoridom’s elite… that is, their supporters have more in common with National than Mana, and which seemed to me why Hone Harawira broke with them in the first place. I would like to be wrong.
You are not wrong, well said SPACEMONKEY.
I Mana should go into an alliance with the Maori Party, will the non Maori supporters and members of Mana still feel that their party is one of the true left, there for all of us?
That is the big unanswered question, I think, and can there even be one Maori Party meeting expectations and needs of all Maori, as we have those more conservative minded and those urban Maori, some of whom may not really identify with the Maori Party itself all that much.
Personally I have very mixed feelings about such an alliance, it may be more wishful thinking than real potential.
Hone seems to be taking his time, and even if he is prepared to have the party discuss cooperation with the Maori Party, will it last, that is if both parties come to an agreement.
We are back though with Labour, the main opposition party to this day, having to do better than they have so far, having a too colourful alliance from the opposition form a government is not really what most voters would warm towards.
Labour – Greens, yes, maybe with some additional support from one more party, but having more than three is signalling instability.
I wonder what others think of all these thoughts. It will certainly not help having Maori Party try win seats from Labour. Key and Nats will just love that, divide and rule forever, he will say.
Māori Party appear to be little more than the parliamentary voice of the Iwi Leaders Forum; a Māori corporate rulers party. Mana helping the Māori Party get seats is like the Greens helping Act get seats. It’s ridiculous. If the Māori Party can’t get out of the margin of error in its party vote polling, and needs favours from Mana to get seats in Māori electorates, maybe that means they don’t actually represent anyone anymore, and they just need to find something else to do with their time and energy?
+100…Mana would lose votes if it was associated with the jonkey nact Maori Party…I certainly would not vote for them!
…really does Hone Harawira want to go in for another round with the treacherous Maori party?!… which has propped up one of the worst governments in New Zealand’s history
….the Maori Party has propped up a government which has been particularly bad for Maori who are bearing the brunt of the housing crisis, child poverty, unemployment , high suicide rates and the destruction of the welfare state
Well said.
+1
Danyl Strype, your comment is the best on this thread thus far imo. You are telling it exactly like it really is.
Marama Fox’s view on things isn’t so far away from Mana’s to the point where I don’t really understand how she can support this government
but she does..actions speak louder than words
Aint that the truth!!
To the Maori Party, “If you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas” and we sure as hell have a dog government.
Well said Bert. National and the tory Maori Party have done NOTHING for average Maori. Poverty and homelessness are at unprecedented levels now.
Among a range of punitive and so called “reforms” that have hurt the most vulnerable, and in particularly, Maori, the Maori party continued to supported the nats when they sold off the water rights when they flogged off our money generating power companies to John key’s offshore interests…
The Maori party supported the the Marine and Coastal Act 2011 that was just as bad as (and that replaced ) the Foreshore and Seabed Act. AND THAT’S WHY HONE HARAWIRA WALKED AWAY FROM THE MAORI PARTY.
The Maori party supported the legislation that allowed national to sell off state housing that is making people homeless.
There have been many instances where the Maori party should have walked away from the nats but didn’t, heck, the maori party walked away from Labour for less.
Like the nats, the Maori party, who do not speak for all Maori, are untrustworthy, even Maori don’t trust them and that’s why they are sitting on only 1 seat now.
Bang on Words, they sold their soles for a Koha but sold everything else for power.
As NZ Inc and it’s CEO guides us all the whole system is rotten and no broom wielded by anyone will sweep it clean.
This has nothing to do with being a voice for Maori, it’s about political expediency and self preservation. The Maori Party are down to just one seat, and that was bought by National’s cabinet club.
Andrew Little hasn’t even said he wouldn’t work with the Maori party, so where did that come from? Certain people telling porkies again to try and stay relevant?
Nact Tuku Morgan is behind this latest dirty play, because the tory Maori party are possibly facing political oblivion next year and need the credibility and the integrity of Hone Harawira to get back in favour with Maori after one betrayal after another.
But of course they can’t admit that, to do so would mean losing face and publicly rub up the Nats in the wrong way in the msm.. The Nats know, they did it themselves when they gutted Act for its own political ends, the Maori party are trying to do the same with Mana..
So, the Maori party is making out it’s Hone who needs them, when in reality, it’s the other way round, the Maori Party needs Hone Harawira. But here is their problem, the Maori party is married to National, til death does them apart, and the Maori party is refusing point blank to initiate divorce proceedings against the Nacts. Hone Harawira will NEVER compromise his principles and support a National party/government, and there lies the Maori party’s dilemma.
“The Maori Party are down to just one seat, and that was bought by National’s cabinet club.”
To be fair and correct, they have two seats, Te Ururoa Flavell and Marama Fox, both sit in Parliament.
What is a real worry though is how the MP has backed up the Nat led government and only got some humble political “gains” from it for their clientele, barely saving much of a reputation.
And what really is a worry is the fact, that they plan to attack Labour and take seats of them, which will not help get rid of this government.
If the MP were honest and acting smartly, they should try and win seats off National, but then, what seats could those be???
Perhaps the partly list and party votes is what they can work on, but as others write, the MP has not stood for ALL Maori, and that is where they are failing.
But Marama Fox is the party’s co leader, she’s there because Flavel won his seat. The Maori party only have 1 Maori seat out of 7 Maori seats. Labour holds the other six. Agree with all your other points though, and the last election the Maori party said the same thing but they only ended up retaining just one seat.
Maori people don’t trust the Maori Party. The 2014 catch cry still holds true today: A vote for the Maori party is a vote for National.
They won one Maori electorate and one list seat.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Zealand_general_election,_2014
yeah, I know. It’s called coat tailing. Now you know why National refused point blank to get rid of it.
But of the 7 Maori seats the Maori party still only have 1 Maori seat.
Sorry Martyn Bradbury, but you are flogging a dead horse here.
Martyn: “Winston will accept a Green-Labour-NZ First Government, but….”
Like heck he will! 🙂 🙂
He has said more than once that he won’t form a government with the Greens. For good reason: Half are crazy and the other half closet communists.
Reds under the bed Andrew – McCarthy acolyte?
Nope, they’re just a sad remnant of the Cold War era.
When Communism was shown to be a worldwide failure back in the ’80’s, the remaining handful of die-hard activists in the West desperately needed a new ‘schtick’, so many quietly migrated to the environmental movement where they could carry on under a new banner.
The irony for us external observers is that the socialist/communist states are the ones with the worst environmental record.
Says the guy who thinks profit comes from magic land
Winston has a lot of right wing enemies who spin so fast their tails are in their mouths…and you are one of them
Lol good one Chooky. We may disagree on some things, but on others we definitely see eye to eye!!!
In all seriousness Labour is too divided, idealistic and stupid to Keep the Maori party onside.
The only one’s who want to keep the tory Maori onside is the nats.
You are correct Words, Labour doesnt seem to want to.
Why the hell would they? A vote for the Maori party is a vote for National.
So if Mana and the Maori Party strike a deal you’d still believe that?
You fail to understand that the Maori Party are not neo-liberals. They went with the nats for at least two reasons. 1. Some within the party sincerely believed in the “better to be in the tent” approach. And 2, they were sticking it Labour over the F and S legislation.
A joint strategy with Mana is signaling a change that perhaps sees the flaw in the “better to be in tent” approach, that they’ve sacrificed too much trying to make the small piecemeal gains they’ve made when in government, if you can call it that – more like crumbs off the table. They’re also getting wiser and realise that maybe they don’t need to keep punishing Labour, especially when their beliefs are far closer to the left than the nats.
This is what’s happening. If the Maori Party truly believed in nat policy then yes, you’d be correct, but they don’t. Going with the nats will hopefully soon be seen as a blip in history. You should be pleased the left’s getting another coalition partner and that Key and his mates are losing one. This Maori Party/Mana “strategy” I’m predicting will be crucial to ousting the current pack of thugs and thieves that are our government. Rejoice, Words, rejoice.
Until those in Labour and the Maori Party stop sucking off of the U.N. ( and US ) tits, we will not have the changes we need. It will be business as usual no matter who gets in and it will continue the agendas and plans towards the totalitarian governance.
We need to wake up and get informed. ( Agenda 2030 ) The elephant in the room.
How the Maori party can continue to support this government is beyond belief as being ” at the table ” with ” out of touch ” idiot elitist politicians is not a favored position. Marama is a UN supporter and Tuku Morgan is not to be totally trusted – a slick talking Maori whose authority and priorities needs to be questioned.
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