It’s Time For Bernie’s Die-Hard Supporters To Stop Being Ridiculous



“YOU’RE BEING RIDICULOUS!” On Monday night, the comedian Sarah Silverman (a Bernie Sanders supporter) called her erstwhile comrades to order. She was right to do so. All that the disruptive behaviour of the “Bernie or Bust” delegates to the Democratic National Convention was demonstrating to the world was how little they understood democratic (and Democratic Party) politics.

In spite of everything revealed in the WikiLeaks dump, Hillary Clinton beat Bernie Sanders fair and square. What’s more, she beat him early. On “Super Tuesday”, 1 March 2016, Hillary swept the South with huge majorities. Thanks to the unflagging support of African-American voters in Virginia, Georgia, Alabama, Arkansas and Texas, the states of the old Confederacy, Hillary was able to rack up a lead in pledged delegates that Bernie never came close to pegging back.

Ironically, Hillary won by adopting the same tactics by which she, herself, had been beaten in 2008. By taking full advantage of the Democratic Party’s proportional system of allocating delegates, Barack Obama had similarly used Super Tuesday to build up a massive buffer of pledged delegates. In just about all the subsequent primary fights the results were bound to be relatively close. Simply, there were no other opportunities for an opponent to win by margins of 50-60 percentage points. The big buffer of pledged delegates won early by both Obama and Clinton was absolutely critical to their eventual success.

There were some in Bernie’s camp who warned him about the dangers of Super Tuesday and urged him to stake his claim to African-American votes early and often. They were over-ruled. Sanders’ pitch for the Black Vote was too little and it came too late.

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Two-thirds of the way through the primary season Bernie understood that the nomination was lost. What he also understood, however, was that the nomination wasn’t the only prize he and his followers were playing for. “Political Revolutions” are bigger than individuals. At their core are a set of principles which, in turn, spawn a set of policies. This was the battle that Bernie won. As he told the Convention: “This is the most progressive platform in the history of the Democratic Party!” Yes, he endorsed Hillary, but in doing so he took care to bind her to that progressive platform with chains of rhetorical steel.

Hillary’s people will have noted the wild applause that followed Bernie’s ad-lib warning against any attempt to ratify the TPP during the so-called “Lame Duck” sessions of Congress. The prospect of walking-back Hillary’s pledge to oppose the TPP suddenly shifted from ‘damned difficult’ to ‘well-nigh impossible’.

But still the dead-enders refuse to accept the fact of Hillary’s nomination. They boo any mention of her name; the turn their backs on her supporters; they threaten to thwart the confirmation of Tim Kaine, her Vice-Presidential running-mate; they make a nuisance of themselves in front of the media benches.

There’s nothing democratic about this behaviour – in fact, it represents the antithesis of democracy. The “Bernie or Bust” people are simply unwilling to accept the fact that in primary after primary more Democratic Party supporters voted for Hillary than voted for Bernie. By refusing to accept the result, they are demanding, arrogantly, that their votes for Bernie should count for more than the votes cast for Hillary. That, somehow, the democratic verdict of the primary process (a far more democratic method of determining who should lead the country than anything we have in New Zealand) should be set aside.

That makes the “Bernie or Bust” crowd something much more than ridiculous, Sarah, it makes them dangerous.


  1. Chris,

    So you think Hillary represents “change you can believe in”?

    If your answer is in the affirmative, I’m in a position to offer you a once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to invest in the purchase of the bridge joining Auckland city with the North Shore…


    (Maybe the Daily Blog should run a competition to guess how many Goldman Sachs people she appoints into her administration?)

    • Oh Andrew, you are an irrepressible dag!

      Well said, Chris. However believing in change will be predicated on numbers and names in the Senate and House of Reps.

      Where Hillary is concerned, I see no reason to believe that someone who has fought her whole life to make a positive difference doesn’t have good intentions to improve the lot of struggling Americans, despite the knee-jerk cynicism from her detractors, many of whom are not unknown to this site.

      • Riiiight, except there’s a few glaring sets of facts you’re forgetting…
        Hillary Clinton’s policies and her track record.

        Name me one policy of hers that you support.

        • “Name me one policy of hers that you support.”

          Min wage to $15 per hour is a good policy. The federal minimum wage is currently at $7.25, that’s more than doubling it.

          Also, making community college free is another good policy.

          Just so you know, I’m not HRC supporter. I’d vote Stein, but if I was in a swing state I’d probably vote HRC.

          However, the Democratic Platform does have some good policies in it – far better than Trump’s vague list of maybes. The policies HRC is running with are probably the most progressive that the Democrat’s have ever offered at a Presidential election.

  2. You should not be pressured in voting for a corrupt, incompetent mess out of fear of Trump. If they lose, it is the DNC and Democratic Party’s fault, not the voters who were betrayed.

    • Betrayed how, Harper. By numbers?

      It was certainly no secret that Democrat insiders preferred Hillary. Why not?

      As has been reiterated endlessly, she is by far the most qualified Presidential wannabe the country has ever had. They would have been crazy not to hope that she would secure the nomination.

      That, despite your protestation (“Lock Her Up!) does not amount to betrayal.

  3. It isn’t petulance that is making Sanders supporters continue to speak against Clinton. Its desperation. You seem to have no comprehension that when you talk about “chains of rhetorical steel”, we’re laughing at you, because THAT is ridiculous.

    Sanders supporters are not represented by Clinton.
    Sanders supporters are. Not. Represented. By. Clinton.

    Stop acting like the “Radical Center” that Clinton is very much a part of has anything in common with the aspirations of the left. Stop trivialising the despair that people feel when they see any hope for change vanish.

    But, for *once* the lesser evil argument holds. The democratic party may have no real.difference from the republicans but Trump is a real threat to women, latinx people, queer people, Blacks, and anyone who isn’t a white man. So voting for Clinton may be the only way to be in solidarity with their fears. But don’t expect people to smile about it. Don’t expect them to do it quietly.

  4. Sorry Mr Trotter, Hillary may have won and is now the presidential candidate, but what happened and still goes on in US politics does not make me feel any more comfortable.

    Having the world’s most powerful nation run as they do, is a huge worry for the rest of the world, in particular those in the so-called “free”, supposedly democratic, western world.

    It is big business, big financial donors and rich pricks to dominate the show, with their vested interests, and the “players” can say what they like, they will never bring about REAL change, as that is NOT wanted.

  5. but in doing so he took care to bind her to that progressive platform…which is why she picked Tim Kaine. (clears throat, rolls eyes)

    • But the VP is meaningless, especially for a leader like HRC (see the show VEEP). The only time a VP has mattered was under George W because he was never in charge. HRC was never going to give her VP a voice.

      Trotter is right, it’s the Democratic platform that is the real signifier of Clinton’s direction.

      • I doubt that the VP is meaningless, after all Joe Biden was welcomed here by the most powerful and unelected people in New Zealand – The All Blecks.

        Well, I say unelected, but what I meant to say was elected by the PM and his handlers Messrs Textor and Crosby et al.

  6. Let me ask you a few questions?

    You are aware that several million people had there ability to vote in the primaries servery compromised?

    That the exit polls, just don’t equal the results, not even close in a few cases. If these had been a UN monitored event – the words corruption and electoral fraud would have been used?

    And why did Rockey just get no votes in California, his home state?

    How many uncounted votes are there still in California by the way – any guesses?

    Arizona? Or do I have to spell out that mess?

    If this is as liberal the democrats can get, sheesh how low are you expectations?

    But most of all, and I get election fraud is the American way – it’s the put downs and the sneers from those who did the fraud which has got peoples backs up. That been pretty constant ever since this thing started.

    I think what you are saying makes sense, but yeah I also get – you just upholding the long tradition of the left doing what it does best, looking for someone to blame for their losses.

    With the libertarians doing so well, at least they can’t blame the Greens for their mistakes this time. No doubt we will here that mantra rolled out soon.

    • Agreed. It’s not so much the fact that Clinton won that rankles with Sanders supporters. It’s the fact that she won by playing a dirty game. Was she personally complicit in that? Who knows. But the DNC most definitely was, and they deserve to be hauled over the coals. People rightly feel cheated, and saying “There, there, never mind… you just don’t undersand democracy!” is both insulting and condescending.

      Choosing between Trump and Clinton is like choosing between a turd sandwich and a diarrhoea thickshake.

  7. I agree with most of what you’ve said Chris. Well before the end of the primaries I developed the strong sense that this was no longer about Sanders, The Dems or even – dare I say it – the Presidential elections.

    This was a wonderful reigniting of pent up frustrations that had first started to develop post GFC. It ceased to become a Sanders campaign and turned instead into a people powered, ground-up movement. My greatest hope for the ordinary people of America who are aware enough to see what’s going on, will continue their struggle.

    Certainly the videos I watched last night of members of this Political Movement seemed to show a resolute and positive spirit, people who acknowledged their solemn responsibility & the moral imperative to keep working.

    I’m not sure what your views are on the political philosophy of Hillary Clinton. For me I’ve read too much about her activities in the geo-political arena, the Clinton Foundation and her pay-for-play corruption to feel OK about her. As a choice between her and Trump: I always start by standing for A Greater Good than being forced to choose The Lesser Of Two Evils.

    But was it a “Fair And Square” victory?
    Emphatically NO.

    • Agree entirely.

      That Mr Trotter could claim that Sec Clinton ‘won fair and square’ is either appalling ignorance from one who is looked up to by some as a political pundit, or an equally appalling lie.

      Either way, it makes him dangerous, and he should stop being so ridiculous.

  8. Hillary’s people will have noted the wild applause that followed Bernie’s ad-lib warning against any attempt to ratify the TPP during the so-called “Lame Duck” sessions of Congress.The prospect of walking-back Hillary’s pledge to oppose the TPP suddenly shifted from ‘damned difficult’ to ‘well-nigh impossible’.

    I see you've branched out and embraced improv comedy., Mr. Trotter.

  9. More than one person has said it; when it comes to whose finger in on the Big Red Nuclear Button, I’d pick Clinton over Trump any day. Jesus, I’d pick Putin or Li Keqiang as a head of state, rather than Trump. When it comes to who holds the Nuclear Launch Codes, give me someone SANE any day.

  10. Or maybe they are unwilling to accept that DNC actively conspired against Bernie Sanders to prevent him gaining the nomination.

  11. The whole democratic voting process of super/delegates, open primaries, closed primaries, caucuses, deadlines for party affiliation, voter fraud and the media ignoring Bernie Sanders from the start – then announcing Hillary as the nominee before one of the largest states (California) has even voted! – Watching it all play out from here in Little old New Zealand, I’m surprised the Bernie supporters aren’t burning effergies of Clinton! – they have all been played the fool in a so called democratic process.

  12. dammit, Chris, just when I thought I was in love with you!
    The stake I have in the US elections is that of staying alive.
    Hillary’s affection for militaristic solutions (in Serbia, urging Bill to bomb the place to smithereens, Iraq, Libya, Syria, her belligerent posturings to Russia, her determination to defend Israel no matter what and to hell with the UN)do not lead me to believe in Hillary as a force for good. Forget about the lesser of 2 evils, we’ve been had that way before. Bernie’s supporters now need to decamp to Jill Stein and the Green Party

    • Oh the irony if she turns out to be a worse threat to world peace than Trump.
      Donald has (so far) only fired people; Hilary has fired weapons…

  13. PHILADELPHIA—The parade of useful idiots, the bankrupt liberal class that long ago sold its soul to corporate power, is now led by Sen. Bernie Sanders. His final capitulation, symbolized by his pathetic motion to suspend the roll call, giving Hillary Clinton the Democratic nomination by acclamation, is an abject betrayal of millions of his supporters and his call for a political revolution.

    No doubt the Democrats will continue to let Sanders be a member of the Democratic Caucus. No doubt the Democrats will continue to agree not to run a serious candidate against him in Vermont. No doubt Sanders will be given an ample platform and media opportunities to shill for Clinton and the corporate machine. No doubt he will remain a member of the political establishment.

    Sanders squandered his most important historical moment. He had a chance, one chance, to take the energy, anger and momentum, walk out the doors of the Wells Fargo Center and into the streets to help build a third-party movement. His call to his delegates to face “reality” and support Clinton was an insulting repudiation of the reality his supporters, mostly young men and young women, had overcome by lifting him from an obscure candidate polling at 12 percent into a serious contender for the nomination. Sanders not only sold out his base, he mocked it. This was a spiritual wound, not a political one. For this he must ask forgiveness.

  14. Yes Hillary got 3.6 million more votes than Sanders so Democracy wins. That said there is the next round with the whole electorate. I dont see that one can reasonably expect slavish acceptance of the winning candidates in either camp when their houses are so divided.

    • Nick, your confusing fictional democracy with factual corporatocracy. Could you please post what positive changes Hillary has contributed to over the decades? I have no inhibitions in denigrating any human being who authorizes war and murder, whether they East/ West / Republican /Democrat.
      Which direction does your moral compass point Nick and why do people like you continue to be apologists for these incessant war mongers?

      • Assuming you are questioning Nick? Nick J is me Pedro and I for one want Hillary locked in a prison cell 1000kms from the nuclear button. Id put Don on gaurd and slopping out duty.

      • Nope. Do a Google on votes reported (there are accusations offraud but….) Hillary got 15, 805, 136. Sanders 12,029,699.

  15. Must See – The Donald In Action Trumping The Press!

    This is Donald Trump’s press conference in Doral, Florida today, July 27th. Note how hostile the press is towards him and how well he handles them, especially since he obviously had a cold.

    Watch how he notes that it has been over 230 days since Hillary Clinton had a presser, amazing given the softballs they always throw at her anyway. And how he mentions the huge increases in ObamaCare premiums due to be announced November 1 that President Obama is trying to put off until December, after the election. And challenges the press to actually do their jobs for a change and publicize that so Obama can’t get away with it.

    All in all, a masterful performance.

  16. Remember elections including our own have been truly accepted now as rigged in the US so it’s all irrelevant here.

    As we are at the whim of anyone who can actually hold an honest election anywhere in the world now, and that is as rare as hens’ teeth!

    Stanford University Confirms Democratic Election Fraud

    Posted on June 16, 2016 by Sean Adl-Tabatabai in News, US // 329 Comments

    Stanford University study confirms Democratic election fraud

    A bombshell study released by Stanford University confirms evidence of election fraud during the 2016 Democratic Party primaries.

    According to a paper released this week entitled, “Are we witnessing a dishonest election?,” a state comparison based on the voting procedures used during the election reveals endemic election fraud within the system.

    Given the stakes in the outcome of the American presidential elections, ensuring the integrity of the electoral process is of the utmost importance.

    Are the results we are witnessing in the 2016 primary elections trustworthy? While Donald Trump enjoyed a clear and early edge over his Republican rivals, the Democratic contest between former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton and Senator Bernard Sanders has been far more competitive.

    At present, Secretary Clinton enjoys an apparent advantage over Sanders. Is this claimed advantage legitimate?

    We contend that it is not, and suggest an explanation for the advantage: States that are at risk for election fraud in 2016 systematically and overwhelmingly favor Secretary Clinton. We provide converging evidence for this claim.

    First, we show that it is possible to detect irregularities in the 2016 Democratic Primaries by comparing the states that have hard paper evidence of all the placed votes to states that do not have this hard paper evidence. Second, we compare the final results in 2016 to the discrepant exit polls.

    Furthermore, we show that no such irregularities occurred in the 2008 competitive election cycle involving Secretary Clinton against President Obama.

    As such, we find that in states wherein voting fraud has the highest potential to occur, systematic efforts may have taken place to provide Secretary Clinton with an exaggerated margin of support.

    Full report: Are we witnessing a dishonest election?

    • Exactly, we know for sure that the elections are rigged and Hillary Clinton will very likely be the next president because that is what the powers ” above the law ” elitists want. They dictate to the govts. and are involved in controlling the elections. They own the MSM and on and on.
      Bernie lost respect and support when he decided to back this Clinton loser and criminal family. Sad days for democracy in the U.S.
      Clearly Hillarious Clinton will be the next president, almost guaranteed.
      The war mongers, the TPPA supporters, the criminal bankers and Wall St. will be pleased as punch to have their princess in the white house.

  17. The passion here about the American elections amazes me. The faults, foibles, peccadillos and limitations of the candidates are pointed out by all and sundry taking it so personally.

    Notions of what democracy should look like get an airing on here as if there is some classic democracy recipe and pattern to be followed.

    Meanwhile we have lying, incompetent Ministers at home under John Key, shaping their own view of what it looks like. I suppose the concentration on Clinton and Trump is explained by “what happens there happens to us.”

    The madness which sees Trump (out of 320 million people) get to where he has got, is replicated by what some on here see as the madness of Clinton reaching the same place. And is there madness in the reaction of some Sanders supporters?

    That (madness) reminds me of the diehard supporters of Robbie Deans being determined to not support the All Blacks when he missed out on the All Blacks coaching job. (I wonder how many of them have come back?)

  18. Hillary is a crook, Trump is an idiot.
    American politics are absolutely corrupt.
    Democracy can only exist when all votes count.
    More than a third of all votes cast in US elections are cancelled out, lost or misplaced.
    The above got Bush elected.
    Stop defending the indefensible Chris.
    Develop a back bone…stop pretending that support for so-called lesser of two evils.
    Our own two bigger parties both peddle the same crap, vote for us because we are not as bad as the other party…both don’t give a stuff about ‘The people’ we are developing into a replica of the rotten US system.

    The American political system represents money, no one can be elected without the backing of crooked banks, etc. We are fast approaching the same state…your cringing won’t stop that.
    Sadly in would appear that no matter which leader is propelled to the top by use of the dollar. The usual people will suffer the pain, the agony, the poverty as the slave trade continues its rise amongst the working class.

    Hillary Clinton may be a woman, she may have forgiven her husband for his infidelity but she can not deny evidence of her own corruption as revealed in the Emails just released. They like her record in the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Middle East men women and children. Clinto makes Tony Blair look like a saint.

  19. The Democrats have just ensured Trump wins by a landslide.

    What part of “or bust” don’t you get?!

  20. Chris is about as left-wing as Dave Dobbyn… vaguely left-wing until he got some money, got older and screwed over the generations coming after. Hilary is left-wing? What a joke. See what Pilger has to say… he seems kinda left-wing:

    In the circus known as the American presidential campaign, Donald Trump is being presented as a lunatic, a fascist. He is certainly odious; but he is also a media hate figure. That alone should arouse our scepticism.

    Trump’s views on migration are grotesque, but no more grotesque than those of David Cameron. It is not Trump who is the Great Deporter from the United States, but the Nobel Peace Prize winner, Barack Obama.

    According to one prodigious liberal commentator, Trump is “unleashing the dark forces of violence” in the United States. Unleashing them?

    This is the country where toddlers shoot their mothers and the police wage a murderous war against black Americans. This is the country that has attacked and sought to overthrow more than 50 governments, many of them democracies, and bombed from Asia to the Middle East, causing the deaths and dispossession of millions of people.

    No country can equal this systemic record of violence. Most of America’s wars (almost all of them against defenceless countries) have been launched not by Republican presidents but by liberal Democrats: Truman, Kennedy, Johnson, Carter, Clinton, Obama.

  21. Totally agree Chris, why would you risk having a physco like Trump in there.
    Hillary is clearly being held to a higher standard than others over there.
    Just like Key seems to be held to a lower standard, or just no standard at all in NZ.

    • I’m sorry, have you SEEN that woman’s track record?! And you think Trump is worse? JFC, wake the hell up – they are both psycho and corrupt, but Hillary is definitely the greater evil. He says terrible stuff, Hillary’s done terrible stuff.
      Personally, I’m really hoping the American people pull off a political revolution soon. Because democrat or republican, we’re all seriously screwed.

    • I’m sorry, have you SEEN Clinton’s track record? Wake the hell up. They are both insane. Trump says a lot of horrible things, but Clinton’s DONE a lot of horrible things – that makes her the greater evil in my book.

      Personally, I hope like hell neither of them make it into the White House.

  22. Democracy is always de-grading when it’s not run by democratists. Hence Trump in America now. Ralph Nader only reakens Sanders’s ‘ rhetorical chains’ worth the foundation of a third party when Hillary inevitably ignores them. Clinton is just the Labour Party middle class buggers who sold ordinary people down the river here in NZ in 1984 and have prospered immensely ever since with their upper middle class peers.

    The idea of the ‘ rule of the people’ must be uppermost in the minds of rulers of democracies–thanks Roge for bringing that home to us.

    Of course, Clinton is better than Trump. Only the potential for crisis soon persuades me, however, I would vote for her. I can see the harm Nader did standing as a viable 3rd candidate–the Bush years–yet he wasn’t wrong, the American system is. Finally, the priority is oligarchies, even with democratic elements, must be overthrown by whatever means. We will remember well Nader, Jimmy Carter and others long after the rest are forgotten or remembered badly.

    This blandity, Clinton, never says anything worth hearing. I.e. I just can’t believe Nader was wrong standing.

    Tactics succeed 99% of the time but finally Yertle can’t take anymore, then the earth must move, for better or worse for Yertle.

    Revolution took the youth and middle age of the first Labour Govt. No possies for Simon Uptons.

    Nader and we were right, the amici ‘optimii’ were wrong. We are old now but the proof is finally down and blatant about the turn from demo-cracy in the 80s. All those pricks have now is bread and circuses and popular authoritarianism (fascism).



    Urgent: Dick Morris Reveals Hillary’s Dirty Plan to Stop Trump – And How Trump Can Destroy Her

    He has warned that Clinton’s plans to open the immigration spigot could lock the Republicans out of power for a generation or more.

    A former adviser to Hillary and Bill Clinton, Morris says he decided to write this book with Eileen McGann because of “the danger of a President Hillary is real and it’s can’t be ignored.”

    Morris argues in his new bestseller that Trump can’t play by the normal GOP playbook.

    “If he does, he will lose,” Morris says.

    Morris, a long-time friend of Trump, says he has been informally advising the billionaire’s campaign.

    In a recent Fox Business Channel interview, Morris told Maria Bartiromo: “Donald Trump is in trouble for the things he’s said, Hillary is in trouble for the things she’s done.”

    Trump can “unsay” what he has said, but Clinton won’t find it so easy to undo what she has done, Morris said.

    Morris says in Armageddon he reveals Hillary’s “many dark secrets” that he has not revealed before.

    But, he decided to do so because he believes the stakes of this election are so high.

    Morris’s book “Armageddon: How Trump Can Beat Hillary” is available at bookstores.

  24. Thank you Chris Trotter. I stopped reading your blogs but this one is good. Maybe you should have waited until after last nights DNC coverage ( that was Wednesday here in the Republic of California) even I was impressed. Obamas speech was fantastic. I’ve been waiting for someone to make the observations that you have made. Bernie has made the Democrats stand up and take notice and now his supporters need to get with the program. I’m not a citizen here but we have a Hilary support sign in our front yard. During the Primary’s it was stolen. (Davis came out as a Bernie town/city.) I never was. We have a new sign to support HRC and that is going up any minute now. Suck it up Davis.

  25. Ironic – I was watching Youtube on the convention and never got round to checking the Blog.
    People were not just pissed about the Wikileaks release (and to be honest they had every right to be angry, they’d only just had verified proof of what they knew before, the day before) but about the way they were being treated AT the convention itself, including
    – Bernie signs being taken off supporters
    – several hundred Bernie volunteers being denied entrance due to “needing paperwork” after having waited for many hours (the reason for the Media tent sit-in)
    – not allowing Nina Turner to speak

    There are really good reasons for Bernie to be trying his darndest to get Hillary in – he can see a real threat in a Trump controlled US. BUT – there is enough troubles within this platform: especially enviromentally (fraking?) – & Tim Kaine is no help for the progressives.

    If you are still unsure why, you need to check out Youtube’s “Coalition of 57 Explain Why Bernie Supporters are Upset with the DNC”
    -for a start.

  26. Come on Chris, who do you think you are trying to sway ?
    She did not win over Bernie ” fair and square “. Are you aware of what unethical criminals she and her husband really are ?
    Are you aware how owned and controlled the MSM is in the U.S. and how they avoided Bernie at every turn. Clearly not. Did you not hear what Julian Assange had to say about what was recently released by WikiLeaks ?

    This woman does not deserve to be president after considering her past and her connections and her lies and how entrenched she is in the greedy banker/Wall St./war mongering elitists multi-national greedy/criminal corporations. She is owned and dictated to by the corporate elite. For Bernie to continue to support her has meant that he lost many supporters, including us and we have every right to not support their corrupt two party system that will only bring the same ole same ole to the U.S.

    Those Bernie supporters who now do not want to back Hillarious have every right to not back a criminal, a liar, an unethical corporate queen who is wanting to further the Bilderberg upper 1% agenda.
    Sorry Chris, disagree with you again.

  27. Oh dear Monsieur Trottoir!

    I shall give you the benefit of the doubt and attribute your above contribution to elderly dotage rather than to your having changed sides (yet again).

    Like most middle class wankers, you favour embracing a progressive agenda but only as far as the corner of your street. Once you encounter the fast, noisy traffic, well… that’s it really. Too difficult, not possible, gotta face reality.

    Well I submit to you sir, that it is you (and the Hilary minions) who are not facing reality.

    The reality of a totally corrupt two party system.

    The reality of control of this process by money (ie corporate power).

    The reality that Trump is an idiot and a dinosaur and Hilary is a Machiavellian party hack.

    The reality that (so far) Trump has fired people on a TV programme.

    The reality that Hilary has fired actual weapons and caused death DIRECTLY by her ‘abilities’ and foreign policy ‘experience’.

    The reality that nothing will be different with Hilary as prez; money and neoliberalism and right wing machinations will continue to dominate very much to the detriment of the younger generations who have backed Bernie.

    Far from being a simple choice between good (Hilary) and bad (Donald), the voters are being given a choice between Attila the Hun or Genghis Khan.

    Some choice.

    If you think this is a good thing I would warn you to be prepared for unexpected results in the November vote.

    And please stop urging us to get into bed with Hilary; it demeans your efforts so far and calls in to question your qualifications to post on this site.

    And please keep taking the tablets…

  28. With all the superpacs and secret funding of political parties, it would be interesting to know who is funding all these vocal Sanders supporters. It’s not to Sanders benefit, it’s not to Clinton’s benefit – the only person who is getting any befit is Trump.

    Trump might not be paying for it so he has deniability but the secrecy of superpacs make that pretty meaningless.

    • Hes already creating heaps of new jobs – at George Soros expense !!!
      hes so clever, he employs far more gays, blacks ,LQBTG ,Woman & Disbled people than Hillary does, Trump raised a shitload recently for the US war VETS & personally donated over a million dollars aswell (last month), how much did Hillry Clintons Foundation raise & distribute to the people of Haiti in ‘AID’ (not including the big corprates & politicians?)

      • He only donated the million dollars after it became public that no veteran groups had received any money. He also used illegal immigrants heavily (not being a good employer either) and has most of his Trump products made in foreign places – like China.

        To McPleadge: I’d say NONE of the vocal Sanders supporter are being paid for by Trump. The campaigns using superpacs are Clinton’s – and Trump now (check the internet). These supporters are just pissed off with the way that the DNC have/are treating them – maybe less patriotism would help.

    • more likely the Clintons did deals with Trump for him to stand and speack his nonsense so as to heard middle america over to Hilary out of fear of his extremism and to get all the african americans, latinos and middle easterns who wouldnt vote – to vote (for her of course)

  29. Thanks @ J S Bark – you put it better than I did.
    …and yes New Zealand will be effected by the outcome either way – so important.

  30. Dear Mr Trotter this piece of yours is just awful, really really awful. All integrity flys out the window as commentators like you heard up the troubled members of the left to support corruption and war and lies lies lies – bcoz its the pragmatic thing to do. The Bernie supporters authentic voice was the only hope at the DNC (as too here all the comments rejecting your post) Bernie blew it – a once in history moment to stand up for any semblance of democracy and sanity on the planet and say “its sick and it BS and I wont support and neither should you” it which might of given us a chance to overhaul some of what is killing humanity and our planet at this late hour but hope left the building esp when Chris Trotter write this stuff – Yuck

  31. “a far more democratic method of determining who should lead the country than anything we have in New Zealand” Chris Trotter tells us.

    Don’t the following remarks follow from Trotter’s statement:

    1) Aren’t Americans lucky not to have proportional representation
    2) How fortunate the American public is, that extremely wealthy corporations and banks and military corporations ..and billionnaire Israel-firsters too .. finance political elections
    3) How wonderful that in a nation of over 300 million, the same names appear over and over..2 Bushes, now 2 Clintons

    Chris , you and I obviously go to different sources for our understanding of American politics. My impression is that the American system is rotten and Americans know it. Voters, those who bother, will not vote FOR Clinton; they will vote against Trump. ..OR..Voters will not vote FOR Trump but against Clinton.
    What is tragic is that the Green Party candidate, Dr Jill Stein, is a person of high integrity. For example, she challenges the obscenely bloated American military budget. A taboo subject for the 2 establishment Parties.

  32. It is time now for you Chris Trotter ==>> to stop being ridiculous.
    Get your facts straight about Hillary Clinton and her corruption.
    Bernie Sanders fans have every right to not support for nor vote for
    Hillary Clinton – the Wall St. and corporate princess and puppet.
    She will say anything and lie in order to get elected.

  33. Are rhetorical chains the ones that bound the first ACT government to Save the Rail after Lange and Prebble had travelled the country selling porkies? They seem to work really well.
    However, like FJK and his scientists, if we don’t like this Trotter post, he’ll have another one next week saying the opposite.
    If Trump becomes POTUS, a good part of the blame will go to Hillary and the DNC. None of it will go to the Bernistas. They are our future, and they’ll go beyond anything the Democrats would ever allow.

    • Agree. They seem to be looking towards the future – to local elections even now. And of course to associated organisations like Wolfpac. Change is never quick.

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