GUEST BLOG: David Cunliffe – Does anyone remember Donghua Liu?

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Does anyone remember Donghua Liu?

He was the guy that in 2014 National and some media framed me as having “helped out” with a standard 11 year old constituent inquiry letter … of which I was not aware and from whom I had never received a cent …

This article reminds us that National Whip Jamie Lee Ross was given $25000 by Liu for John Key attending a private dinner at Liu’s home.

The hypocrisy is absolutely breathtaking and shows the lack of moral compass of this “government”.

Water under the bridge you might well say, and indeed i had virtually forgotten, until I read the article attached.

Key is at it again, pumping (Chinese) donors for cash for his pet flag referendum. The one he spent nearly $30 million of your money to hold. The one he lied that he was fairly neutral about. The same one he was hustling donations to skew.

What did he trade for those donations? Just his affable charming presence? Or weak investment rules, land sales, rampant house prices, and a little bit more of your kids’ shot at the Kiwi dream.

TDB Recommends NewzEngine.com

And in case you think I care where those donors were from – I don’t. Could have been from, say, Jersey or the Cayman Islands, or New York, or Switzerland or any of Mr Keys other favourite tax havens that he wants to emulate.

Wake up NZ. We are being played!

From Cunliffe’s Facebook page this morning

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85 COMMENTS

  1. These middle aged rich men are setting about to destroy the very fabric of NZ society for their gain.

    They make this middle aged man now slipping down from the “middle class to Key’s own manipulation of us to join the ranks of the poor 90% while these sharks devour what is left of the last remains of the once proud egalitarian state

  2. As an aside, you can often tell by the initial star ratings for a Daily Blog article when a story can really damage National Ltd.

    Farrar et al have their trolls out immediately down voting it.

    It’s almost flattering.

    • Even more flattering is that there used to consistently be 4 or 4. Now there are often more. It’s why I once commented on the value of having the like/dislike rather than having people make a comment where they have to actually comment.

    • Herald comments about the flag ,”its done and dusted move on.”
      Always when too many negative comments about Key and his antics get expressed by readers, comes the advice “comments for this article is now closed.
      Any negative comment about the Left can run infinitem.

  3. David,
    When are you becoming Leader of the Labour party again?
    While you are on the back bench and your neo-liberal party comrades are still there I will not be voting Labour.
    You I like.

    • IMHO it doesn’t matter that David Cunliffe is on the back bench, he is still doing very good work, and is an important member of the Labour party. Labour’s caucus have pulled themselves together under Andrew Little’s leadership, and the fact remains, in order to change the government, and kick John the Con out, you do need Labour.

      • “…you do need Labour…”

        What is needed is a strong left coalition that includes Labour.

        As soon as Labour understands this they will stop cannabilising the other parties who share their core policies and direct their energies to becoming stronger, clearer and leaner.

        National already take advantage of MMP, with ACT, United Future and the Māori Party. Labour still easily falls into FPP practice of joining in with the Nats in criticising their allies.

        • Labour are not cannibalizing the other parties, National, the corrupter, has done that to its coalition partners.

          What is needed is a msm that tells the truth, and reports the news, instead of making it up for National, and a honest electoral system free from National’s grip.

          Labour, The Greens and NZ First are on the same page. Your thinking is little bit FFP there, sure a left coalition includes Labour, but the fact remains, in order to change the government, you most definitely do need Labour. There are no two ways around it. That’s MMP.

          • 100% WORDS, “Labour, The Greens and NZ First are on the same page.”

            This is now happening that Labour NZ First & Greens are well aware that they need to stay together as one for this most crucial election.

          • Labour’s actions and press releases often denigrate their possible coalition partners. Essentially – adding to the clumsy hatchet job of National. This tendency is what puts me off voting Labour. Primarily, because it is completely unnecessary.

            Labour might be required to form a coalition, but I would only consider voting for it again if it stopped acting like an arrogant older sibling, and listened and worked with the other left parties.

            The reason I will continue to vote for one of the other left parties is to ensure a wider diversity of voices from the left, and a better outcome for all NZers.

            • I don’t know why it is, but why do people describe National when they are having a go at Labour? Because Molly’s comment describes National to a T.
              It is not a better outcome for all NZers if National stay in power, is it? Vote for whomever you like, no one here is telling you otherwise. Just trying to make you aware that to form a left coalition government Labour IS required, Labour is essential, and it cannot be done without it. Period. The Greens know it, so does NZ First.

              • Hi Words, I understand that you are frustrated by what I am writing, but I am not trolling – I am genuinely writing what I feel stops me from voting Labour.

                And it is done with the sole intent of informing Labour activists and strategists about why a left-wing voter interested in politics is not supporting the biggest party on the left side.

                If you choose to listen – then there may be more than one voter Labour attracts in the next year building up to the election.

                If you keep telling voters – such as myself – that we are not smart, or politically astute because we don’t give our votes or our allegiance to Labour – then it is unlikely we will return.

                You are so keen to promote Labour’s position as a major player, that you seem to “demand” loyalty, and that is offputting. (And you are also spinning every comment I have made to fit your narrative.)

                • I wrote what I observed in your comments. And it appears you are making things up. Whose “we’?
                  I never said you were not smart and neither did I demand loyalty to Labour either.

                  What I wrote was “Vote for whomever you like, no one here is telling you otherwise. Just trying to make you aware that to form a left coalition government Labour IS required, Labour is essential, and it cannot be done without it. Period. The Greens know it, so does NZ First. ” And those are the facts.

    • Yes the country needs you David. Labour making no headway at the moment under current leadership.

  4. Spot on David Cunliffe, 5 star post that succinctly calls it for what it is. One wonders what will it take for those that support this shameless criminal and his amoral corrupt National government before they kick this rotten to the core regime to the curb. They need to grow principles, a conscience, and some self respect, as they are dragging this country and the rest of us down into the sewer with them.

  5. As it is obvious to most people David, politicians are above the laws they create to control the masses they apparently serve. After a 30 year study into the machinations of democracy within the nation we all aspire to be like apparenty ( na not for me thanks, i will keep my morality ) the USA. It has been proven without a doubt your vote counts for nothing more than a mark on a ballot paper, corporate lobbyists and the PNAC control and influence all aspects of government policy.
    So what exactly are do you recommend doing,? It is also obvious the opposition in NZ are totally ineffectual in controlling the tyranical little turd who is fucking us over.
    What is labour going to do that is so far removed from the status quo?

    • Very good question Pedro. I for one will not vote Labour while Grant Robertson is on the front bench. He is a useless Finance spokesman.
      And he did not not support you David. So impressed you are still in Parliament . It gives me a glimmer of hope.

  6. Tik Tok Tik Tok. Meantime, the steady state is lie like fuck, procrastinate while you engineer your escape hatch, and hope like hell the natives aren’t getting too restless.
    (They’re not at the moment btw, but the longer it goes on, the more violent the eventual outcome). Basic mathematics at play also.

    Funny how learning from history seems to be so fucking hard for many eh?

    • Keep the populace just like rats trapped in a bucket of water: if the temperature is just right then they’ll carry on swimming happily but if the water’s too hot then they’ll try to escape.

  7. Do I remember the Donghua Liu Affair? Oh yes, very much.

    It’s ironic that David Fisher (who, by all accounts is an honourable journo) works for the NZ Herald – the same paper that seemed to be in-cahoots with the National Party dirty-tricks brigade.

    It should not be forgotten that there seemed to be a strange confluence between the Herald Editor, Jared Savage, and several “Whale oil”-related characters; see https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2015/07/15/the-donghua-liu-affair-one-year-on/

    And it was Tim Murphy, in an email dated 7 July 2014 and repeated in a NZ Herald statement to NZ Press Council on 15 July 2014, who claimed;

    “We stand by our report that a book was purchased and expect further ‘evidence’ of this to be made public shortly.”

    There was no “further evidence”. There never was any “evidence”.

    The entire Donghua Liu Affair was a “black ops” devised by National to destroy David Cunliffe’s credibility. The fact that the NZ Herald went along with this odious plot is a stain on their reputation that will take a long time to overcome (if at all).

    Your reputation, Mr Cunliffe, by contrast, is cleared fully.

  8. I certainly remember the Donghua Liu affair. I and Frank Mackasy took made separate complaints to the Press Association against the NZ Herald and Tim Murphy. We lost but I know we were right.

    John Armstrong who led the call for David Cunliffe to resign will forever have to carry that shame. This from his last article: “Regrets (he had two)…Second, effectively calling for David Cunliffe to resign when he was Labour leader over something which was relatively trivial. Sorry, David.”

    The Chinese are playing John Key for the fool that he is. Unfortunately we the people will pay the price.

    • The thing is, it wasn’t ‘trivial’ though was it? Armstrong called for Cunliffe’s resignation over an accusation that he himself knew was a lie.

      Armstrong and National’s Herald were willing participants and were complicit in orchestrated smears against National’s opponents in John key’s dirty filthy American style politics. Nothing has changed in that regard since 2014. The extra kicker was that they got off scot free without penalty. Armstrong’s apology, while still denying the truth, doesn’t cut it in my opinion, and he can stick it. Armstrong and his colleagues will never be able to wash off the dirt. They sold out and shat on their profession, they will never rid themselves of that shame, but sadly, they don’t care either.

    • For the person who commented that the Chinese are taking jk for the fool he is:

      Rubbish! He’s no fool, no matter how much of one he may appear at times. No one reaches the very top enchelons of the banking world by being a fool. It takes an entirely different ‘skill’ set.

      • Adam, that’s a load of bull. John Key is not a banker, he is a currency trader and a insider trader to boot. Dirty grubby deals and being a yes man got him to where he is.

        John key is a shareholder of Bank of America, and he personally profits from NZ’s enormous debt that his National government has created. The only thing John key is tops at, is for being a morally corrupt money grabbing treasonous parasite.

        • Well said Words. Agree completely.

          But I think in you rage, you may have missed the sarcasm in Adams comment.
          I think your assessment may be the “skill” set that Adam meant.

          I’ve given you both a thumbs up.
          Adam please correct me if I’m wrong.

        • And laugh out loud. Who even says the top echelons of banking. The highest key got is the secound floor. He’s just a middle man

        • Adam didn’t say he was a banker, he said “No one reaches the very top echelons of the banking world by being a fool.”
          The Foreign Exchange Committee of the Federal Reserve ranks as in the very top echelons of the banking world.
          Don’t let John Key’s genial bonhomie and ordinary bloke facade fool you, that’s just a palatable image for the proles who vote for him. Underestimating him is exactly what he wants you to do.

    • John key and his National government like Chinese sounding names when they want to raise money to game the system in their favour.

  9. Many of us have been watching and fighting the disembowellment of our country for Years David Cunliffe.Did you only just wake up?What are you going to do to Stop this Beast?

    • Troll alert !! Really unfair comment there Julie, and you have a cheek saying that after everything David Cunliffe went through in 2014. David Cunliffe has been wide awake far longer than you, your post suggest you just woke up.

    • Julie, I read your comment as an expression of frustration rather than a personal attack on David Cunliffe even though it was written to him as a response to his post.

      Please clarify if that is the case, and if you feel inclined, write why your response was so marked. As many here feel that David Cunliffe was representative of a more progressive side of Labour, and would support that, it has resulted in a automatic reaction against your comment.

  10. https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2016/04/09/waatea-5th-estate-weekly-political-wrap-up/

    David can you now help to taking over this plan to get issues like you just pointed out very well broadcast nationwide please as we need to turn this around and see Nactional for what they really are?
    This is a very important current affairs program that if it was on live mainstream TV 1 & RNZ we would see a wild swing away from Nactional to the opposition alliance block, so we need the opposition now prepare a combined legal join court challenge injunction to claim that half of the political parties to have a media platform on which to clearly offer their position on such matters as what has been described in this excellent program so these folk’s need to be heard across the whole NZ electorate.

  11. So Key goes to a Chinese restaurant and gets $100, 000 in Chinese donations that enable pro new flag pamphlets to be distributed around Auckland.
    Two things:
    1. No wonder the gap for the new flag closed on the old flag
    2. National certainly seem to be appealing to those with Chinese sounding names( of course this has nothing to do with foreign investors buying property in Auckland)

    • The Chinese are the “new” Brethren. Remember the “black ops pamphlet” they were behind during Don Brash’s tenure. Now it appears that the “black ops flag pamphlet” was funded by Chinese investors.

      There must be money there somewhere, for Chinese to be wanting to support a change in NZ’s flag as part of the plan to make Shonky Pinocchio JonKy invincible? Follow the money trail. Whoever leaked the Panama Papers, should soon be following the stench of corruption back to the “Beijing Blind Trust Papers”

      Our fears of the Union Jack Flag having a Stars and Stripes replacement in the left hand corner, were a little misinformed. Perhaps it should have been 5 Yellow stars on a red background?

      • Yes. Donghua Liu wanted changes to our immigration laws, and have his domestic violence charges dropped. And of course they were after the 2014 election.

        National abuse their position of power and do “favours” for their big moneyed donors, Chinese, American and so on, even down to changing our laws for them.

  12. I not only remember campaign ‘ Donghua Liu Donation ‘ ;
    But I also remember campaign ‘Tricky’ which involved corruption by members of the media that are still reporting our news today .
    Not to mention campaign ‘Sorry’. A wilful misinterpretation of a perceptive and timely speech, as Womens Refuge’ has since proven to be in dire straits, and of cause the puerile campaign ‘Red Scarf ‘.
    Anyone with half a brain knows you were shafted David.
    Your tenacity was and still is admirable and I’m glad to see and hear you mentioning the plight of future generations.
    N.Z might wake up one day, but firstly real and all news has to be reported. Not fiction.
    6pm TV News Sat Night. No mention of Keys secret meeting with the Chinese reported…. I rest my case.
    David Cunliffe and Andrew Little ….Legends !!

  13. MESSAGE FROM THE PM
    I’m always feeling calm and relaxed, because that’s what Crosby Textor advise me to feel. Even though the gangrene of inequality is eating away at me. And the flesh eating bacteria of corruption is dissolving my brain. And the $110 billion govt debt pitbull is chomping at my privates. And now someone has thrown a Mossach Fonseca hatchet, that has lodged into the base of my neck. But I’m still comfortable, despite having to pay out on Ambrose and Stephenson and soon to be Hagar, due to our incompetence.
    I’m comfortable that our foreign trust laws can be used to hide money laundering and racketeering, but no one wants to extradite me, because I’m not a crook..…it’s Sergeant Shultz who must be the crook, because he’s being extradited for money laundering and racketeering!
    And I won’t be changing the trust laws, because the $24 million/year in fees we get from these foreign trusts, is a lot of money, whereas the $26 million flushed away on the flag referendum, was hardly anything!
    And the certain Mr J.P.Key mentioned deep down in the bowels of the Panama papers? Well, that was just someone acting in the capacity of someone in my capacity while acting in the capacity of the Prime Minister, but I can understand how the confusion might arise. Basically I think I put the wrong hat on that morning, due to a wardrobe malfunction. And who can prove what my real name is anyway…it comes from the latin, Keyruptus Merilinchikus, if you must know…
    I won’t be resigning over this, like the Icelandic PM, because he’s a man of values, morals and principals, while I’m the most popular barking mad PM ever, according to me! By the way, I’m now putting FIFA in charge of Govt banking, and outsourcing Treasury to a subsidiary of the Mafia, and then I’ll be replacing Bill English with a Nigerian prince.
    I’m comfortable with mega rich individuals hiding their wealth in NZ trusts, and multi nationals shifting profits overseas, because NZ is a haven for lowering tax…not a tax haven! The media’s got the wrong end of the stick again, because they just don’t realize that taxes are for poor people!!!
    ring ring..
    ring ring… ring ring….
    Hello, John speaking..
    HELLO MR PRIME MINISTER, IT’S AUCKLAND AIRPORT MANAGEMENT HERE. WE’VE JUST PICKED UP ANOTHER KIWI WITH A BIG STUDENT LOAN. WHAT DO YOU WANT US TO DO?
    Why the temerity of them, not paying their debt. Is there no limit to these people’s arrogance? Arrest him…freeze his accounts…call the cops…bring in IRD…get his NZSIS file…throw the book at him…I’ll re-schedule my afternoon to make room for a press conference, to announce that we’ve caught another defaulter! Hopefully I can slip in the word “jihardi” because I just love using that word!! In fact I yelled out “jihardi” and danced around naked, at every single mosque I visited this year…that’s the honest truth..I swear to Allah. Of course I’m still feeling calm, comfortable, and relaxed about everything. Happy days!!!

      • @grant. What a stupid comment! What does it even mean? Using the afflictions of those who don’t have the choice in suffering them is abhorrent. Not funny! Not witty! Just crass and ignorant I wonder what you see when you look in the mirror in the morning. Not much I’ll be bound.

      • Grant, your last name wouldn’t be Robertson would it? If it is could you do Labour a favour and piss off like your mate Cosgrove and take the rest of the ABC brigade with you

        • Trey , Trey ,Trey. What can i say.
          No , I am not Grant Robertson.
          In fact i am the antithesis of the ABCs.
          Somewhere the wires have got crossed , so just for the record, once again… David Cunliffe and Andrew Little …. Legends.

          • Hi Grant,
            Yes I read your first comment (re remembering tricky etc) after your last about the dementia and realised that somehow I got the wrong end of the stick from your second comment as they did not align. Quite clearly from your first comment you are not an ABCer so sorry about that. I still don’t understand the dementia comment though

    • YES !! everyone knows and remembers David Cunliffe, even YOU by posting a stupid right wing troll comment on his article.

      • Well said Words. Cunliffe is not the person supporting hidden trust in N.Z. That would be… I dunno… KEY!

    • Thanks Helena – finally the people who have been royally rogered by Thatchernomics, Reaganomics, Rogernomics are starting to tell these neoliberal robbing bastards where to get off.

      What is needed though is a groundswell movement to impeach every last one of these neolibs thieves and set them before the International Courts of Justice for Global State Asset theft and moneylaundering profits into Panamanian Trusts.

      Wikileaks should be going after individual neoliberal robbers.

  14. A very good and valid call, David, welcome back on TDB.

    Indeed, it has despaired me for years now, that too many of the ordinary New Zealanders have continued to support and even vote for this crap and dishonest government we have.

    Key is like a multi layered Mr Teflon, who has gotten away with far too much, “dirty politics” was just one prominent aspect of it all. We have had the gradual disentitlement of the poor and powerless, nasty welfare reforms, forcing even sick and disabled to “prove” they may not be able to do ordinary work, we have had tax cuts favouring the rich and better off, we had endless laissez faire policy when it comes to foreign investment, home and land sales, immigration and so much more.

    So far the economy has been going a bit better than in many other places, but it was all largely based on the Christchurch rebuild, the short dairy boom now turned bust, and rather unconstrained mass immigration.

    As for productivity we have not progressed, and diversification of th economy has been badly neglected.

    Now we have the “Panama Papers”, and we are waiting to see how many and which of our well to do population have themselves benefited from off-shore and possibly also local tax saving trust investments, multi layered to make the ones behind it hard to detect.

    I would not rule out Mr Key himself, well certainly many mates of his, having taken advantage of Panamanian and other opportunities to hide their wealth.

    When walking through the Viaduct Harbour here in Auckland I see so many luxury and other yachts and cruises, it is mind boggling what goes on and who owns all these. There are also the many top of the scale luxury apartments, occupied by whom, I wonder.

    New Zealand is a favourite destination for the ones like Donghua Liu and many others, who love our trust and business and tax law, as it gives them so much room to move and also hide their wealth, few other countries (apart from more traditional tax havens) offer such a favourable environment.

    John Key must be involved up to his neck in this, hence his dismissive comments. Whenever he comes across so casually and dismissively, then we know, he is hiding something.

    Expose this rot, I can’t wait to learn more from the “Panama Papers”, expose the rich pricks that use New Zealand to hide their wealth, as a playground to visit the casino, play golf and so, while we have about 300 thousand children live in poverty.

    What a disgusting situation, what an embarrassment for this nation, people, wake damned well up, finally, and throw this rotten government out, storm Parliament, I dare say, and occupy the front steps in protest.

  15. Earlier today I saw that there were people outside Downing Street calling for David Cameron’s head. Reuters and B.B.C. both covered it.

    I wondered what it would take to have a similar size protest at the Beehive calling for John Key’s head.

    • To be displayed at Traitor’s Gate, the Tower of London.

      The name Traitors’ Gate has been used since before 1544, when that name is used on Anthonis van den Wyngaerde’s panorama of London.[1] Prisoners were brought by barge along the Thames, passing under London Bridge, where the heads of recently executed prisoners were displayed on pikes. Queen Anne Boleyn and Sir Thomas More entered the Tower by Traitors’ Gate.[2]
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traitors%27_Gate

    • I regret to hear that he is kind of walking on water, going by the new and shocking Colmar Brunton poll that TV One presented tonight. Do they put stuff in the water supply to make people support this man? I wonder, I wonder, it is beyond belief.

      An embarrassing flag referendum result, now this Panama Papers scandal, and nothing seems to shake people out of their slumber.

    • You said that right, Jack. If the media had of told the truth, John key would have been history long ago.

    • Well most of the NZ mainstream media is based off shore and probably have their own tax haven trusts so I am not surprised they love and support Key so much.

  16. Reading between the lines it appears there is systemic fraud going on around the world laundering money through tax havens. Governments worldwide need to co-operate and sort this out as it is creating chaos worldwide with the haves getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
    The Syrian situation is a classic example, we also witnessed it in the Philippines and Zimbabwe.

    Where is the sanity in all this? Greed is evil and creates unjust societies worldwide, we should all be caring for our fellow human beings. Bashing the poor and the vulnerable leads to Civil Wars.

    B52 Bombers don’t improve relationships with the local people, the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq has escalated problems in the Middle East.

  17. Reading between the lines it appears there is systemic fraud going on around the world laundering money through tax havens. Governments worldwide need to co-operate and sort this out as it is creating chaos worldwide with the haves getting richer and the poor getting poorer.
    The Syrian situation is a classic example, we also witnessed it in the Philippines and Zimbabwe.

    Where is the sanity in all this? Greed is evil and creates unjust societies worldwide, we should all be caring for our fellow human beings. Bashing the poor and the vulnerable leads to Civil Wars.

    B52 Bombers don’t improve relationships with the local people, the invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq has escalated problems in the Middle East.

  18. It has been revealed via ARD German TV media now, that Mossack Fonseca even manipulated their trust accounts by wrongfully referring to the Red Cross, to the WWF and Unicef as either beneficiaries or trustees of certain trusts they administered.

    This was done to whitewash the shady deals that were going on. Neither of those NGOs had any knowledge of being mentioned in Mossack Fonseca’s records.

    This is fraudulent, and also in breach of the Geneva convention, which protects organisations like the Red Cross from being abused, that is their logo or legal name and identity.

    It is mind boggling what went on, I trust this will soon be reported on by other media, but given the hopeless NZ MSM, we may not learn much about this here.

  19. The flag referendum was Keys poll – and he lost! I don’t believe this government, NZ media or any poll any more… The country has gone to the dogs and everybody knows it! I am ready to March…

  20. Frank the polls are always rigged mate before another election to keep things mom for the incumbent corrupted government it happens everywhere so concentrate on the ball not the rigged polls.

    http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-u-s-elections-rigged

    Pity we didn’t have a opposition set up controlled poll as well????

    This may have found much more of a truthful reflection of what people are really thinking.

  21. Yes wake up NZ we are being played!!!!!

    Answer= Mobilize the Opposition, Labour, NZ First, Greens, now!

    Get them to Join together and place a fundraiser on the “give a little? website to go legal together as those who are our 50% representing the political Parties with our 50% vote and seize half of our public owned asset, of TVNZ & RNZ, so they can provide us a “balanced media platform to turn the sleeping NZ voter on again before it is to late!

    Please join the call for the opposition to front up and take the public owned half we own back from the control of the Corporate Key lot and sing the democracy tune instead and tell the honest facts not propaganda and lies.

  22. Thanks David Cunliffe for exposing a bit of ugly NZ history again . Many of us have supported you for years and know that you have been lied about and slandered. Keep up the good work as we all try and expose the rot more and more. Question Authority and bring the criminals to justice.

    The extremely wealthy do not make their money by helping people or the environment. They make it by being sneeky / manipulative and abusing and taking advantage of people and the environment.
    Many are outraged and understandably so over John Key paying 2.8 % in taxes and joining his wealthy elite in screwing the masses by not paying their proper tax rates to help all these countries with people suffering so much. Now they diminish the importance of this recent leak as they try to cover their tracks and run for shelter. Did anyone hear donky jonky in Q & A parliament today ?

    Maybe Sean Stone was right recently when he said we may need to get rid of the 2 party system and try for something different and more sane and fair for all that is in every living things best interest and well – being.

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