Article the first
The Chiefs of the Confederation of the United Tribes of New Zealand and the separate and independent Chiefs who have not become members of the Confederation cede to her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty which the said Confederation or Individual Chiefs respectively exercise or possess, or may be supposed to exercise or to possess over their respective Territories as the sole sovereigns thereof.
Article the second
Her Majesty the Queen of England confirms and guarantees to the Chiefs and Tribes of New Zealand and to the respective families and individuals thereof the full exclusive and undisturbed possession of their Lands and Estates Forests Fisheries and other properties which they may collectively or individually possess so long as it is their wish and desire to retain the same in their possession; but the Chiefs of the United Tribes and the individual Chiefs yield to Her Majesty the exclusive right of Preemption over such lands as the proprietors thereof may be disposed to alienate at such prices as may be agreed upon between the respective Proprietors and persons appointed by Her Majesty to treat with them in that behalf.
Article the third
In consideration thereof Her Majesty the Queen of England extends to the Natives of New Zealand Her royal protection and imparts to them all the Rights and Privileges of British Subjects.’
I know, I know.
You’ll be pissy I called you white, but I suspect you’d be more offended if I had called you pakeha.
You’ll be a ‘New Zealander’ type person.
I just wanted to get your attention because there seems to be some woeful lack of understanding when it comes to Waitangi Day, and I suspect it’s because you are a bit racist.
Not full on racist like Australians, god forbid, but that kind of racist that has you muttering about ‘Maaaaaori rights’ and ‘one law for all’ bullshit.
You’ll be applauding the PM for his decision to not attend Waitangi Day, you’ll agree that it’s all Mickey Mouse up there and you’ll whinge as loud as Mike Hosking when served caviar with a metal spoon that we can’t celebrate Waitangi cause all the Maaaaaori’s keep protesting.
Let me first start out by saying, it’s not your fault that you are racist. Our education system is bullshit at explaining the numerous human rights abuses and theft and killing of Maori and the ‘oh-woe-is-me-I’m-white-but-I-don’t-get-nuthin-from-the-Gummint’ narrative spun by right wing media means your garden variety bigotry never gets put in its place.
In less than a century, Maori lost 95% of their land. Their experience of colonisation, which white people scream was totally positive and Maori should be thankful of, almost wiped their entire race off the face of the planet.
I think if I was a member of a group whose experience of colonisation was almost the total death of my culture, I’d be a tad pissed off as well.
The theft, the abuse, the manner in which that loss of economic sovereignty engrained generations of poverty while white folk broke the Treaty and did well is an open wound that has still not been healed when Maori continue to feature in the worst social stats we have.
Waitangi Day is the one day Maori have our attention and can remind us that the promise of the Treaty has still not – after 176 years – been reached. That John Key is such a gutless coward who would sign away our collective sovereignty and then be too scared to face the music shall define his Prime Ministership.
Audrey Young makes the point in the Herald today that NZers are so privately racist that they will applaud Key’s decision because deep down in places they don’t like to mention around the BBQ, their white privilege is too entrenched and that they hate Maaaaori. That may be the case for the ageing boomers Audrey writes for, but what the TPPA protest showed this week is that an entirely new generation of NZers who don’t have that racist hang ups of boomers are prepared to stand and so ‘no more’.
We don’t have a Declaration of Independence or Constitution guaranteeing civil rights, but we do have a treaty which right off the bat sets up the Crown’s responsibility protecting the rights of Maori, I believe that we should look to expand that relationship so that it’s not seen as just something ‘just’ for Maori but for all NZers.
I think we should look to expand the definition of the Crown/Government as having a responsibility to protect the rights of all NZers. I believe that we can expand that definition without taking anything away from the position of Maori as the indigenous culture but we view it as a power dynamic between the individual and the State. The State is there is protect all of us, to protect all of our rights and our Treaty clearly sets out that dynamic of State responsibility in Article two and three. For me Article One is about ceding sovereignty to the State to have the power to fulfill its obligations of responsibility, not about having some type of Orwellian crush of personal sovereignty where Maori and Pakeha alike are slaves to the State.
For me the Treaty is a celebration of understanding the role of the State and the individual, a symbiotic relationship where we the individual cede to the State the power to protect our universal civil rights including property rights.
Personally I identify as Pakeha with pride. It’s a term that immediately places me and gives me meaning. It connects me to these Shaky Isles. For those new migrants to NZ, the term encompasses you as well.
We should cherish and celebrate Waitangi Day and if white NZ wants to be able to enjoy it as well without the guilt, then simply honour the Treaty.
A very interesting article Martyn. Perhaps it is worth mentioning that successive Govenments have been continually addressing the land confiscation issues and it is an undeniable fact that this Government has signed more Treaty Settlements than any other. The fact that John Key did not attend Waitangi will of course not define his Premiership with the majority of the public. I presume the next set of polls will reflect this. While expressing your point of view, which is great, I think you also have to deal in the reality.
Got something to hide ?….just ask ….
CHICKEN JOHN ….
bwarrrrrp, bwarp , bwarp,…..bwarp, bwarp, bwarp…
2-3 cents on the dollar compensation is hardly anything to be proud of. Any gains Maori achieve is there own. With help from Bolger. If it hadn’t of been for bastion point or Whina Cooper. We wouldn’t have gotten anything. And our culture defunded and corrupted.
The reality is that there is huge opposition towards anything Maori. Yet when the Te Uruwera national park was changed to its own legal entity. The world didn’t collapse, and extremists where once again incorrect
Yes, exactly!
Soooooo…we have a Prime Minister that thinks its ok to commit common assault by pulling on a waitresses ponytail and never being called to account on it… despite being surrounded by the Diplomatic Protection Squad ( NZ Police ) …and then go ahead and try and use a BRIBE with a case of wine to boot…
Who sanctimoniously gets all moral and ethical when his loser buddy – (the manager of the failed Northland campaign which Winston Peters won ) who was such an abysmal failure at his job and is currently the mouthpiece for the TTPA con job – gets a dildo thrown at his mouth.
( At this point we wont mention the bridges promised by Bridges …)
You can almost hear the backroom screaming about Joyce’s saying ” lets get it over with and give John Oliver the gib”…
Its looking a lot like CHICKEN JOHN is starting to feel a bit squeamish and embarrassed about labeling the Nga Puhi elders as ” MICKEY MOUSE” ….
Or was it more that they ( Nga Puhi elders ) were torn between being honorable with such a dishonorable sad excuse for a manipulative , devious , gutless and two faced so – called Prime Minister?
I think that is closer to the truth and CHICKEN JOHN is realizing a substantial amount of Kiwis are wising up….
CHICKEN JOHN .
Bwarrrrrp , bwarp , bwarp , bwarp …..bwarrrrrp , bwarp , bwarp bwarp…..
CHICKEN JOHN.
You fucking low life manipulative piece of human flotsam. Go back home to America. We don’t need you .
You don’t belong here.
Go home.
He is the prime minister of NZ and entitled to the respect that office deserves.
Inviting the PM to come onto the marae and forbidding him to speak whilst offering his political opponents the right to speak is an insulting, rude and an overtly political act. It is not one of partnership and therefore the PM acted accordingly.
IMHO Maori should rethink how the Treaty of Waitangi should be commemorated. In particular allowing an inept and shambolic iwi to hold the whip hand in the organisation should be rethought.
aWanderer – You have no speaking rights in Parliament either. Try standing up in the Public Gallery and saying your piece and see how long it takes for Security to jump you and hustle you out.
I give it one minute, tops.
Do many people get invited to attend parliament? In fact when they do (e.g visiting heads of State) they usually get the opportunity to address MP’s)
That’s quite true, Gosman.
But as usual, you’ve wandered off-topic.
I wasn’t referring to “heads of state”. I was talking about us, the plebes.
I can use simple words if I’m getting ahead of you.
Try to keep up.
Not sure where you are coming from on that one Frank.
You are not entitled to speak in the house unless you are an elected representative, but you can be heard through your representative ie your MP should you have an issue and go through the right channels. If you were to have it any other way you would have pandemonium and choaos and absolutely nothing would get done. And we would all be worse off.
I agree that if you are invited onto the marae as Leader of the Government, your capacity is as rangatira of the nation and then it is your right speak and answer your critics. And if you going to be gagged or told you can’t reply, you are within your rights to decline any invitation to that marae.
You’ve just answered “where I’m coming from”.
Key has no more automatic right to speak on a Marae than you or I have to speak in the Debating Chamber of the House.
He had rights to speak on the main stage, and politically in the forum tent, he was never “gagged,” as he so said. And he needs to earn respect, or atleast not destroy his respect, which he has done to himself many times. Why would we respect him when he does nothing but disrespect, demean and snub thousands of Kiwis who disagreed with his agenda?
He is the prime minister of NZ and entitled to the respect that office deserves.
What? after he’s talked about peeing in the shower, the state of his pubic body hair, his masturbation history and after having a good old laugh with the boys about anal rape?
It’s not this blog your comment should be addressed to.
The man is a joke.
The fact he has or had a smear campaign operation running 24/7 running out of his office, that being the Office of the Prime Minister, to elliminate any percieved threat to his hold on power usually without basis, on top of all the other lame shit he’s done means any respect for that office has been shit on and then torched by Key.
He has disgraced that position quite probably forever!
I feel chastised, your point is more weighty than my list 🙂
@Awanderer. With reference to John Key, you comment: “He is the prime minister of NZ and entitled to the respect that office deserves.” No one automatically deserves respect because of his or her position in society. Respect is earned.
I have no respect for someone who talks about his urinary habits, pubic hair and masturbation on the radio, uses rape to gain political mileage, harasses a young woman in her place of work, and jokes about a convicted pedophile and murderer.
The question is – why do YOU respect someone who does the above things?
People need to earn respect, Key doesn’t respect a majority of New Zealanders.
He respects the 1% percenters who have put him in power and his paymasters in the USA.
Keys missed a great opportuniyy to practise sime humility, and gone to just listen for once. Such an act of grace would have taught him alot, and given the rest of us a break from is ysual immediate dismissive responses tobthe concerns of thoae who did not vote him in.
Why should he have a right to speak politics on Waitangi day…this day isn’t about him…or any other MP…..he can speak bull shit on any other 364 days…why Waitangi day ACTUALLY WHY DO MPS TURN UP ON THESE EVENTS AND TALK TEKO…
“Inviting the PM to come onto the marae and forbidding him to speak whilst offering his political opponents the right to speak is an insulting, rude and an overtly political act. It is not one of partnership and therefore the PM acted accordingly”
the PM was never refused speaking rights – your claiming something which exists only in your mind
what did happen was that he was meant to keep the political stuff for a forum where he could be openly challenged
In what way, pray tell, does the article not “deal in the reality”?
Because if you actually thought a bit, and learned a bit, and listened some, you might begin to understand the very long colonial hangover that is the “reality” for many Maori.
The “reality” is, we have a treaty. And before that, a Declaration of Independence. In my humble opinion, the many kiwis who are blissfully ignorant of the treaty are the ones who “have to deal in the reality”.
A sports stadium full of everyday average news zealanders don’t agree with you I,m happy to say. Key looked very rattled as the entire stadium erupted apwith booooooo to him arriving and walking along as he did. YES !
@ Gwynna – yep and wasn’t it great to see dear leader cut down to size, with his head down. Good.
Not so much the “most popular NZ PM of all time” now is he, the sniveling little piece of foul odour excrement?
I think the boos from the public might have turned into a few boo hoos one FJK was out of sight.
……and what according to you is the reality?
Still chuckling about the first three words of the tittle
Funny thing about that higher education system. When you can’t afford it. It’s difficult to extend that bullshit explanation
Audrey Young and the other Key cheerleaders just cannot see can they.
Her article was one of disgust, contempt and annoyance. Just trust John Key and his National millionaire clones and shut the fuck up will ya?? Oh and throw in the Maori bashing rant while you are at it.
Audrey, try these examples to name a few as to why we shouldn’t trust him or any National Party go to boy;
We still don’t know what happened with Keys awful Warner Bros deal but sure as shit anyone who wasn’t Peter Jackson or Warner Bros took a hit. Loss of film worker rights, loss of income and for what, we’ve probably filmed less here since that dodgy deal that cost the taxpayers plenty.
SkyCity Convention Centre. Dear oh dear, a back room, nudge, nudge, wink, wink, hows you father deal over a piss up lunch. The competitive process eliminated, prime taxpayer land given away along with a purpose-built state broadcasting building, more gambling, more pokie machines and for longer and a licence to print money extension on SkyCIty’s den of inquity and the coup de etat, Problem Gambling Foundation killed off. And yet we still don’t know today what the hell went on or who had share holdings in what or who knew when to buy or sell but that deal stank. And still no bloody convention centre!
Oravida, synonymous for the most questionable dealings ever by a government minister, much less an MP for obvious self gain. Lie after lie but to this day we still don’t know the full story. And the minister in question stayed right where she was courtesy of John Key
Bribing Saudi millionaires for what again? Fran O’Sullivan preferred the fictional mobster Tony Soprano’s term, “Facilitation Payments”, sounds so much more legit eh! More corrupt than the 1970’s Queensland Police and again nothing but diffusion and we still don’t know what the hell is going on and who in National are making money out of that.
And those little gems have seen us slip down international corruption ratings. That’s not opinion, that is fact!
Labour law changes to apparently deal with the excesses of Zero hours and worker exploitation, 2015. Much noise by National and Michael Woodhouse, yes we are listening. Trouble is the slime simply codified what was already a rancid anti worker bit of legislation and made it worse, after the heat died down.
And then there is all the half-truths and little bits of the truth and anything but the truth over the years from our esteemed PM. Just last week he explained that the China FTA had Investor State disputes clauses too. It does but what he didn’t mention but knew was it was a far fairer WTO version, not a US corporate friendly hybrid with the TPPA. He just cannot tell the truth!
I don’t care if Helen Clark and Phil Goff started th TPPA ball rolling, at least if they had remained I would be a lot more convinced it was good for NZ and not the very wealthy that Key and his mates rub shoulders with.
You see Audrey, you would have to be insane to trust John Key or National!
She comes from a National party supporting family. Her articles are quite biased untruthful pro Nat propaganda in my opinion from observation.
May I share your post. It is excellent.
Feel free.
CHICKEN JOHN .
bwarrrrrp , bwarp , bwarp , bwarp……bwarp , bwarp , bwarp , bwarp…..
Well this pakeha is totally pissed off at John Key for signing the frigging TPPA for zilch return for Aotearoa. I applaud the kaumatuas for slamming the gate of the Waitangi marae to John Key’s face. I wouldn’t want to invite a dishonourable thief and pathological liar into my home.
To me, the PM not attending the Waitangi grounds is a tragedy for both sides because the treaty is the foundation for this country.
Respect, negotiation, consultation and harmony is essential for both sides and from each side. Serious political and common sense errors have been made here by both sides during this episode this year.
I think you are out of touch with our education system…the atrocities against the Maori and loss of land are well covered throughout. Hell, even in a University engineering course we are still being taught about it.
I taught high school here in New Zealand up until 2009.
I taught in several schools.
One of the subjects I taught was social studies.
The Treaty is taught, every year. The differences between the Maori and Pakeha versions is taught.
The many atrocities that were perpetuated by the Crown against Maori is not taught. At least, I did not teach it nor did I ever see another teacher teaching it.
AFAIK it’s not in the curriculum and I never saw any materials for teaching it.
From my experience I would state it is not taught in New Zealand high schools.
I think it should be.
Now, that doesn’t mean it’s not taught at university level. But even if it is, that’s not the appropriate level for it to be taught.
I wish everybody with an opinion on the merits or otherwise of the TPPA had a little tatoo on some hidden part of their body so in 10 years if it gets passed we could revisit our positions held and call out those that were wrong.
With comments from the like of Mike Hoskings saying “let’s just sign it and see who is right in 5 years from now” ,all Mike proved is that you don’t need to be intelligent to be rich.
To me surrendering the rights to our world class legal system in exchange for a clearly corporate controlled kangaroo court is beyond the pale.
Just think 1 ruling against New Zealand by way of the corporate controlled kangaroo court (ISDS) will erode the alleged $2.7 billion we MIGHT earn over the next 15 years.
The possible gain is decades away but the costs will start on day 1.
Such a gamble with our future that I hope the National Government’s hubris isn’t a losing hand and the bank takes all.
Some see the irony of the Skycity Casino Complex being the National Government’s choice of venue, home of another secret deal that will cost the taxpayers millions of dollars ultimately.
This is a time to put aside our differences regardless of heritage and come together for the common good of all kiwis, it’s our future after all.
I saw an interview with John Key at the Auckland Nines. May I say how dignified he looked.
It certainly would not have been as dignified, pleasant or blokey for him at Waitangi. So, I applaud him for not giving Maori a chance to ‘throw their toys’ at him this weekend.
The office of the Prime Minister is a dignified position and we certainly don’t want rent-a-mob and dicks at Waitangi dragging down the Prime Minister into the mire.
If this continues, I would like to see a Private Members Bill to remove Waitangi Day from the official holidays of New Zealand and keep if off this list until the Maori do not ACT in such a Mickey Mouse way.
You’re a muppet See-More. The PM has done more to drag down the dignity of the Prime Minister’s office than any other NZ PM, including Rob Muldoon. He’s a disgrace.
Mincing down a stage in Rugby gear; three-way handshake at the World Cup;pulling a waitress’s hair; admitting the unspeakable things he does in his shower;running NZ down on Letterman; not being able to remember his stance on the Springbok tour; his treasonous selling off of State Assets; his association with Sabin; picking up soap and promoting prison rape on a radio show; the TPPA signing at Skycity instead of at the Parliament Buildings in Wellington; GCSB; Skycity deal; selling off NZ’s sovereignty by allowing an FBI Raid in NZ;
Did I miss anything people – feel free to add. He’s a disgrace to the office of the PM and you’re still a sycophantic muppet See-More.
@ WINNIE – not much to add to your list really. You have about nailed it there, summing up well the cowardly, lying, odious cretin we have the misfortune to have as PM of our nation.
Remember too he didn’t know Ian Fletcher previously, who he gave the job of Director of the GCSB to, despite Fletcher being an old childhood school friend!
And then there’s his stalking Richie McCaw at every opportunity.
Now it seems there’s a chance he might be on the verge of showing some interest in ruby league players, after attending the game at Eden Park on Waitangi Day, (where incidentally he was booed).
Obviously now Richie is betrothed, declaring his love for another, FJK is miffed and is on the prowl for a new sporting hunk to drool over!
You really are becoming monotonously predictable, Mr see- more.
You are just so entertaining, and a good source for a laugh.
You really are a ” joker “.
You say, “The office of the Prime Minister is a dignified position”
Yes, tell that to the creep whose ‘office’ indulged in dirty politics and who was also pulling pony tails of women and children against their wishes until he got publicly exposed.
Go Back to Sleep..M8 Ur Dreaming…
David see-less, Donkey looks very dignified posing with alcoholic drunks, his henchmen abusing ladies aka the POLICE, STOP THE VIOLENCE, STOP DONKEY AND HIS HENCHMEN, THIS IS HOW NATIONAL GOVERNMENT CELEBRATE WHITE RIBBON DAY, AND the dildo hit its mark perfectly haha Target DICKHEAD completed haha, here we go private members bill, another PRIVATE, SECRETE, UNDERHAND, BEHIND CLOSED DOORS, PROCESS OF HOW NATIONAL EMPLOY hahaha, rather be mickey mouse than GOOFY.
Can’t be too dignified masterbating in the shower and pulling women’s and little girl’s pony-tails…
“The office of the Prime Minister is a dignified position ”
So why did you vote for an undignified person to fill that position?
I would like to see a private members bill to remove the worst PM in the history of NZ.Key was sneaked into NZ on orders from the corporations for the purpose of selling us out at garage sale prices.Key is a corporation man,not in the least interested in the people of NZ,we are pieces in a chess game used until checkmate, then he will leave the “game”
Everything he has done has been against NZ and at our expence, we need new elections, which political party has the guts to call for Keys removal.
After many years of Waitangi, I have come to see it as a none too subtle barometer of what is simmering below the surface of NZ society, Maori or non Maori. Key is supposed to be the most clever politician ever, yet he is oblivious to it nowadays. Arrogant and stale.
Yep. The Glad Wrap gets peeled back and you can see what is rotting inside. Then we flick the Glad Wrap back on, stuff it back in the fridge, have another look next year and it doesn’t look any better.
John Campbell.
@JohnJCampbell
“Happy Waitangi Day! 6 Feb 1840. People who so believed in our future they signed up to it. A Treaty of hope, trust, vision & mutual respect”
https://twitter.com/JohnJCampbell/status/695580835668340736?cn=ZmxleGlibGVfcmVjcw%3D%3D&refsrc=email
If the Maori Party are so anti-TPPA, and I heard their treasonous stance at the Auckland Town Hall, they should rescind their coalition with the National and force an early election. Certainly the ACT Party would gain more seats if an election were held in a month’s time.
Labour are prevaricating and don’t know whether to withdraw from TPPA, support TPPA, allow some members to cross the floor and support TPPA, or elect Phil Goff as leader again.
The Greens with Jamie Shaw as co-Leader are a progressive party and potential coalition partner to replace the Maori Party. Peter Dunne supporting legal marijuana has taken ACT policy, because we see it as a great revenue stream for future governments.
ACT is the true centre party to keep the National Party and the other extremists in check from their left-wing leanings.
An early election would cement power for the centre right for the next three years and I believe that ACT should move to have 5 year election cycles in order to save taxpayers paying for expensive elections every three years. The millions of dollars saved could be spent on Health and Education if elections were every 5 years instead of every 3.
An upvote for this post will show National that ACT is a better coalition option than the Maori Party and its radicals.
Wake up blind David Can’t See, you’re dreaming !! Why do you think National wouldnt get rid of coat tailing? because your party Act, along with UF and the Maori Party couldn’t get into parliament otherwise. An early election will see the end of John key, his government and his partners in crime.
Treason is signing on the dotted line of a blank piece of paper and changing our laws while other countries like the US will undoubtedly make changes as powerful lobbyists push for amendments for their foreign corporations.
Treason is changing our laws for foreign corporations/governments to dictate and restrict our government from enacting laws and SOE’s that are in our country’s best interests.
Why do you want foreign corporations/governments to dictate our legislative processes, and tell our government want they can or can’t do on the basis it may hinder their profit margins?
You are the traitor David.
Maori don’t have a coalition with National.
They quite simply cannot force an early election.
What a stupid comment.
ACT is the true centre party? What exactly is the political centre – according to you – exactly? I DARE you to go up to 50 strangers and say “Do you want to pay for all that stuff the government pays for now with your own personal money- do you agree?” and see how many “NO”s you get. It is NOT a centralist party – it is an ideological party having to spin a few lines to try to trick a few gullables into voting for them because there is BUGGER ALL true believes any more.
Millions saved going into health and education under an ACT/libertarian government? You are deluded or deceitful – their whole doctrine is user- pays.
Waitangi Day at Waitangi is normally a peaceful affair when rednecks like Brash and Key are absent. Key did the right thing by NZ staying away from
Waitangi he would have just aggravated the situation?
Don’t like National signing away our sovereignty to USA Corporations like Monsanto?
I wished the woman in front of me at the supermarket checkout this morning a happy Waitangi Day. I was in upmarket Newmarket in Auckland. I got a smile and a hoppy Waitangi day back, and lovely smiles from the operator, his supervisor, and the shoppers in the queue. Some of us appreciate a National celebration day. I feel kapai ☺
I want Audrey Young to do an article about the rampant epidemic of poverty pervailing Maori right across NZ. About the fact that EVERY Maori in the country knows someone in prison. Some real journalism instead of the bs Granny Herald thinks is news. I might be white; I might be deep down rascist; I might be pissed off with their moaning and protesting but my family were here when the Treaty was signed so Im reasonably aware of what happened and as a white, rascist NZer I know the Maaaaari’s are right. I’d be pissed off if I was them too!! JK has sold them down the Waikato this week, and they more than any of us, have the most to lose.
It’s a pity Lewis (in that photo) is too diplomatic to tell wideboy Jonny he’s an absolute dickhead.
Also, Apparently throwing sex toys at a piece of National Party blubber = not OK, but pulling one or two ponytails = OK.
Oh the humiliation as Key feigns outrage because of international media coverage.
Key is quite obviously slow at getting kulchatral learnings (going forward)
I wonder why you chose that English text of te Tiriti, when the one signed by most, and the one discussed by Hapu leaders was the Te Reo version, which Article the first reads as:
The First
The chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs who have not joined that Confederation give absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the complete government over their land.*
GOVERNMENT – Not “cede to her Majesty the Queen of England absolutely and without reservation all the rights and powers of Sovereignty”
Why did you choose that text over the recognised one?
“First article
In the English text, Māori leaders gave the Queen ‘all the rights and powers of sovereignty’ over their land. In the Māori text, Māori leaders gave the Queen ‘te kawanatanga katoa’ or the complete government over their land.
“The word ‘sovereignty’ had no direct translation in Māori. Chiefs had authority over their own areas, but there was no central ruler over the country. The translators of the English text used the Māori word ‘kawanatanga’, a transliteration of the word ‘governance’, which was in current use. Māori knew this word from the Bible and from the ‘kawana’ or governor of New South Wales. Māori believe that they kept their authority to manage their own affairs and ceded a right of governance to the Queen in return for the promise of protection.
“It is widely accepted that the use of the words ‘kawanatanga’ and ‘tino rangatiratanga’ (in Article 2) contributed to later differences of view between the Crown and Māori over how much authority the chiefs would retain and how much the governor would have. There can be little doubt that the chiefs who signed the Treaty expected to enter into some kind of partnership and power sharing in the new system.
Martyn?
*Translation by Professor I H Kawharu, published in Report of the Royal Commission on Social Policy, Wellington, 1988
There is a word for sovereignty in Maori, it’s mana. Imagine if they had used that word no one would have ceded their mana,,,,,would you, and that’s why they purposely didn’t use it.
Martyn, you are using the English version of the Treaty not the Māori version.
Māori didn’t cede sovereignty, only governance.
A translation of Article One of the Māori version of the Treaty says :
“The chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs who have not joined that Confederation give absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the complete government over their land.”
In article two, the chiefs were not just granted undisturbed possession of their lands; their chieftainship over their lands was guaranteed.
Translation of Article Two:
The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. But on the other hand the chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs will sell land to the Queen at a price agreed to by the person owning it and by the person buying it (the latter being) appointed by the Queen as her purchase agent.
The Māori version of Article Three of the Treaty is actually more in line with your interpretation of the Treaty than the English version as it refers to the ” ordinary people of New Zealand” rather than to the “Natives of New Zealand. ”
Translation Article Three:
For this agreed arrangement therefore concerning the government of the Queen, the Queen of England will protect all the ordinary people of New Zealand and will give them the same rights and duties of citizenship as the people of England.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/document/4216/the-three-articles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi
It would a good idea to replace the English version with the Māori version Martyn, even if it could make this comment unnecessary.
“Our education system is bullshit at explaining the numerous human rights abuses and theft and killing of Maori ”
Did you go to school in the 1960’s or 70’s?
Because that certainly is not what is taught now. Quite the contrary, you couldn’t be more wrong. I really think you should educate yourself on the curriculum that is taught this century, not what you were taught 50 years ago.
Please use the Māori version of the Treaty.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-Treaty/differences-between-the-texts
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/document/4216/the-three-articles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi
In English translations of the Māori version of the Treaty:
Article One- Māori cede governorship not sovereignty
Article Two- Māori retain chieftenship over their lands not just undisturbed posession
Article Three : the Treaty is between the Crown and the ordinary people of New Zealand, not the “Natives of New Zealand”
All very interesting . . Could i just ask who exactly are the original inhabitants of New Zealand ? I was of the belief there was a race of people inhabiting the country before Maori arrived . . If this is true, would these people and their descendants not be the real “natives” of New Zealand ??
Aliens?
The archeological record suggests Grant is incorrect.
Maori carvings suggest Frank has the stronger argument.
“I was of the belief there was a race of people inhabiting the country before Maori arrived .”
Your belief is wrong.
http://books.scoop.co.nz/2008/11/18/no-to-nazi-pseudo-history-an-open-letter/#comments
Your link to a blog post reviewing a book doesn’t prove anyone wrong. I think the point is interesting and worthy of more discussion.
Then have a discussion. But if you had a valid point, I would be tempted to respond. But you don’t, so I won’t.
Good, I’m glad you didn’t waste your time. I prefer to read posts by people with something interesting to say.
big deal grant, we signed a contract with maori – who were the inhabitants at the time
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/document/4216/the-three-articles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi
In English translations of the Māori version of the Treaty:
Article One- Māori cede governorship not sovereignty
Article Two- Māori retain chieftainship over their lands, not just undisturbed posession
Article Three : the Treaty is between the Crown and the ordinary people of New Zealand, not the “Natives of New Zealand”
The Māori version of the Treaty is the correct one, according to international law.
In the Māori version,
In article one, the Crown was given governance not sovereignty.
In article two, the chiefs retained chieftainship of their lands, not just undisturbed possession.
In article three, the Treaty is between the Crown and “ordinary people of New Zealand” not the “Natives of New Zealand.” This supports your vision of how it can be interpreted nowadays.
Here’s an English translation of the Māori version from teara.govt.nz
The First
The chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs who have not joined that Confederation give absolutely to the Queen of England for ever the complete government over their land.
The Second
The Queen of England agrees to protect the chiefs, the subtribes and all the people of New Zealand in the unqualified exercise of their chieftainship over their lands, villages and all their treasures. But on the other hand the chiefs of the Confederation and all the chiefs will sell land to the Queen at a price agreed to by the person owning it and by the person buying it (the latter being) appointed by the Queen as her purchase agent.
The Third
For this agreed arrangement therefore concerning the government of the Queen, the Queen of England will protect all the ordinary people of New Zealand and will give them the same rights and duties of citizenship as the people of England.
From:
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/document/4216/the-three-articles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi
Here’s the Māori text from nzhistory.net
Ko te tuatahi
Ko nga Rangatira o te wakaminenga me nga Rangatira katoa hoki ki hai i uru ki taua wakaminenga ka tuku rawa atu ki te Kuini o Ingarani ake tonu atu – te Kawanatanga katoa o o ratou wenua.
Ko te tuarua
Ko te Kuini o Ingarani ka wakarite ka wakaae ki nga Rangitira ki nga hapu – ki nga tangata katoa o Nu Tirani te tino rangatiratanga o o ratou wenua o ratou kainga me o ratou taonga katoa. Otiia ko nga Rangatira o te wakaminenga me nga Rangatira katoa atu ka tuku ki te Kuini te hokonga o era wahi wenua e pai ai te tangata nona te Wenua – ki te ritenga o te utu e wakaritea ai e ratou ko te kai hoko e meatia nei e te Kuini hei kai hoko mona.
Ko te tuatoru
Hei wakaritenga mai hoki tenei mo te wakaaetanga ki te Kawanatanga o te Kuini – Ka tiakina e te Kuini o Ingarani nga tangata maori katoa o Nu Tirani ka tukua ki a ratou nga tikanga katoa rite tahi ki ana mea ki nga tangata o Ingarani.
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-treaty/maori-text
Almost the perfect piece Martyn! I was LOVING it til I got to this part:
“…we do have a treaty which right off the bat sets up the Crown’s responsibility protecting the rights of Maori, I believe that we should look to expand that relationship so that it’s not seen as just something ‘just’ for Maori but for all NZers”
The very thing about the treaty is that if is a contract between the crown & Maori, NOT all NZers! We have no point of difference or beacon of hope to reclaim anything we have lost if we expand the treaty to encompass all NZers. And we have no ‘home country’ where our culture is dominant to return to, all other nationalities/immigrants to NZ are here by choice & have a culturally rich motherland they could choose to return to at any time should they feel their rights are compromised here. Sorry Martyn but you just don’t get it.
Then this:
“I think we should look to expand the definition of the Crown/Government as having a responsibility to protect the rights of all NZers. I believe that we can expand that definition without taking anything away from the position of Maori as the indigenous culture but we view it as a power dynamic between the individual and the State. The State is there is protect all of us, to protect all of our rights and our Treaty clearly sets out that dynamic of State responsibility in Article two and three”
Govts are only ever going to protect & provide for their followers. If that means white racist middle/upperclass NZers that hate Maaaaori’s then including all Kiwi’s in the treaty is going to be a huge mistake for Maori because we are at an added disadvantage. No Govt is ever going to prioritise & serve Maori needs. The Govt voted in already look after their voters, if we add their voters to our Tiriti then they get the benefits of that govt obligation too & we are further minimised. We’re not all on an equal playing field Maori are down in the shitty boggy bottom fields that anyone else who can afford to has well since moved up from so treating all NZers equally is of no benefit whatsoever to us. So sorry again Martyn but you just don’t get it.
And finally this part:
“For me Article One is about ceding sovereignty to the State to have the power to fulfill its obligations of responsibility, not about having some type of Orwellian crush of personal sovereignty where Maori and Pakeha alike are slaves to the State”
Now I KNOW she doesn’t get it. Most Maori Chiefs signed & understood the Maori version of the treaty in which Article One ceded GOVERNANCE only. Despite the education systems insistence that Maori were dumb & desperate to have these white brainwashing governors & missionaries save us from our cannibalistic ways, our tipuna would simply never have signed over sovereignty. Ever. It goes against our entire world view, way of being, understanding, existing & surviving.
So I really don’t think Martyn that you get it at all. I really hope your not Maori yourself but just another brainwashed privileged white victim of NZ society & education system trying to understand and empathise with the fate of Maori since this fateful day in 1840.
Regardless of if hes right or wrong, the corporations and the government are laughing at the way so many are getting into the race/cultural debate. Divided we fall, united we stand. Lets face it there may be some grievances that need to be settled, there maybe lots even but if we continue to look at ways this divides us we will still be piss-arsing around when the TPPA gets ratified. Do we want a united and free New Zealand and if so lets all work together and deal with big issue of keeping New Zealand for New Zealanders.
http://www.teara.govt.nz/en/document/4216/the-three-articles-of-the-treaty-of-waitangi
http://www.nzhistory.net.nz/politics/treaty/read-the-treaty/maori-text
In English translations of the Māori version of the Treaty:
Article One- Māori cede governorship not sovereignty
Article Two- Māori retain chieftainship over their lands not just undisturbed possession
Article Three : the Treaty is between the Crown and the ordinary people of New Zealand, not the “Natives of New Zealand”
Yes, John Key should have gone to Waitangi to be dildo’d for the greater good of the nation. Any who disagree with Bomber are wrong thinking Hoskins lovin racists.
Maorism I believe is the cancer of this nation.
Racism like that is the cancer of this nation.
“Maorism” – a whole new racist epithet by someone who can barely express a coherent thought.
“Maorism”… lol
In true msm (NZH/Stuff) form, it’s an interesting fact, despite comments being invited, Audrey Young’s article isn’t open for debate … yet! And when/if it is opened up, it will be closed off as early as possible, to avoid too much negative comment being publicized about FJK!
Pal, respect to ya!!
In the end, in the human species, disputes between families, tribes and peoples seem to come down to a contest of arms. where there is a complete incommensurability between 2 treaty partners major disputes arise. Consider the Treaty of Versailles along side the Treaty of Waitangi; in the end the biggest army writes the history, and claims the spoils. Woe to the vanquished. What can I say? Surely these days no-one believes that colonization means anything more than conquest…? This is not good, but it is at least historically very familiar to the human race.
When asked, Henry VII of England, who had little to no claim to the English throne replied that he had the right to it, by means of Bosworth Field. Who did have the greatest force of arms at Rangiriri, Orakau, Parihaka etc…? The British Empire, covering 1/4 of the worlds surface, or a few thousand local defenders…?
When treaty partners do not share a language or culture, then major disputes are likely to arise over the terms of a treaty.Where there is a major incommensurability of point of view, the disputes are often (usually?) sorted out by force of arms. This is not good, but seems to be something that the human race has done throughout known history. Very few treaties last, or are not broken by at least one party. I repeat, this is not good, but it is not unknown to the human species.
Once force comes into play, the biggest army wins, takes the spoils and writes the history – woe to the vanquished. Surely none of us are so foolish as to regard beneficient colonization as anything other than a form of conquest, these days…? When asked, Henry VII of England, who had absolutely no previous right to inherit the English throne, stated that he had established his right on “Bosworth Field.” Who established their right at Orakau, Rangiriri, gate Pa, Parihaka. I don’t like it, but my Pakeha forebears were better armed and better fighters than my Maori ones.
What don’t you get? Before the British imperial troops established their military advantage, there was a Treaty. It was because of the breaches of this treaty that the troops were there in the first place. So your statement that “Pakeha forebears were better armed and better fighters than my Maori ones” (which isn’t even true; they were better armed, but history would attest that Maori were the better fighters) is completely redundant.
That doesn’t mean your Maori ones must remain subservient to your pakeha ones forever or from your Maori ones challenging again at any time afterwards!
That doesn’t mean your Maori ones must remain subservient to your pakeha ones forever or from your Maori ones challenging again at any time afterwards!
Do the majority of NZ’ers celebrate Waitangi Day as their national day ? NO – they don’t.
Do we have a national day that celebrates all NZ’ers and their sovereignty and a day we all feel good about and celebrate with pride ? NO – we don’t.
Are there many of us who DESPISE the word Pakeha and do not like its meaning or to be labeled Pakeha and feel offended and disrespected by it ? YES
Of course we all agree that the British screwed the early Maoris (and early AU aboriginals) royally but were the Maoris the first peoples here in NZ ? NO – they were not. Do they deserve all the trillions in compensation when we are growing in debt and economically not doing great ? ? ?
Why are there so many secrets about pre-Maori history and covering up and denying the truths about all of this ? Why are there areas in the north island off limits and protected that have pre-Maori cultural present ? — Who is afraid of what truths coming out and why ? ? ? Maori’s killed and ate the Moriori’s — so they were not saints.
I have experience lots of racism coming from the Maori’s so we white folks are not the only racists.
I will be labeled racist, no doubt, but I am not in any way. I celebrate and honour all cultures but when one of them wants to own the water and the air and the land and the beaches and rivers and all the greenstone etc. I question their need for ownership (greed?) and control over resources. The Maori’s want to protect and take care of our resources as well and that is good and honourable but there is a greedy faction that feels they are entitled to own our water etc. and no one has the right to own totally our resources on this island or any island or any other country. Those who believe that “Man has dominion over nature,” has been the curse of our people/environment
( worldwide ) for a very long time.
What we need is a constitution that represents ALL and protects ALL of our sovereignty and one that we A L L ! ! can relate to and feel good about. We need to feel good about our constitution and our national day and our flag and our country. No one group has any power over another no matter what the Maori’s ( and sympathetic white folk ) believe. No group is better than another group, we are all truly one in the broader scheme of things.
What many of feel we need in NZ is a national day to celebrate OUR nation and ALL its citizens that is separate from the Treaty. Of course, keep and respect the Treaty but most do not relate to it as our founding document. Come on, most do not relate to Waitangi Day either and it is just another three day weekend for barbys and beer. It is just not our national day, no matter how much many would like to think it is. Only a small faction of our citizens celebrate Waitangi Day as our national day and its about time we face the truth and stop denying.
Crikey.
Even if Maori weren’t the first people here that actually has absolutely no effect on the Treaty.
The Treaty is a legal document. Signed by Maori who were resident here when the British arrived.
We have a legal system. That should honour legal agreements between two parties.
I suggest you read it. It’s at the top of this article. That legal agreement guaranteed Maori full undisturbed possession of their lands, forests, fisheries and other properties.
You don’t get to ignore legal agreements if it’s inconvenient. If as you say “NZ isn’t doing so great”.
That’s the basis of a civilised society, laws that we all should abide by and a justice system to enforce them.
Lara – Some laws are not just. Some legal agreements and laws are out of date. Some “out of date” laws and agreements are not worthy of enforcing. Most of us feel that the Treaty is not our founding document and is not our constitution that represents all of us. If it were put to a vote, I would bet that the MASSIVE majority of NZ’s would affirm that Waitangi Day is not our national holiday. We are only stating here what many will not.
There is a Maori woman professor, at one of our Universities here, that is so racist that every time she speaks, we shudder at her damage done to us and her obvious contempt and hate for the — “pakehas”.
She is also on the team who is writing our new constitution — shudder, shudder.
Many of us, who are not monarchists, would like to see the Treaty respected and kept intact but would also like — TO HAVE OUR VERY OWN NATIONAL HOLIDAY AND A CONSTITUTION THAT WE ALL CAN RESPECT AND FEEL GOOD ABOUT AND UNDERSTAND AND RELATE TO AND ONE THAT REPRESENTS EVERYONE’S BEST INTERESTS AND IS SEPARATE FROM THE CROWN. We need our independence and we need to honour all cultures here with not one of them being anymore important than the other. WE ARE REALLY ALL EQUAL, AREN’T WE ? The Maori’s have taken the high ground and feel entitled to and feel they own most resources and its about time to challenge that insular, partially greedy and self-serving belief. Yes they deserve compensation for the loss of their lands and culture and lives and yes the Brits were a disgusting and greedy and murderous lot but — WHEN DOES THE COMPENSATION GRAVY TRAIN STOP ? ? ? ? Don’t the Moriori’s deserve some compensation as well ? Why continue to honour a Treaty, as our founding document, that is made with a country that has an appalling history as they do have ?
Lara, you and others can forever continue to refer us all back to The Treaty but when most do not relate to it and do not feel it is something we can honour and respect, then why continue for another century to deny the fact that NZ needs a constitution and a national holiday that we all can relate to and like and honour and feel a connection to. OUR PRECIOUS AND GREAT COUNTRY (and all of its citizens) DESERVES THAT. Lets start on common ground with all cultures and all citizens respected and consider ditching the monarchy. We realize, that statement will not set well with those still closely connected to the monarchy and still feeling that the Treaty is the — end all and be all. Isn’t it time we let them go and move on into a healthier and happier and more independent future with our own constitution based on fairness and respect and sovereignty for all – ALL OF US ! ! ? ?
The Treaty is not “out of date”. Yes it’s old, but it’s one of if not the most important document that this nation was founded on.
You can feel whatever you bloody well like. But the Treaty is still our first legal document that allowed the Brits to come here and form our nation. Feel whatever, doesn’t change that fact.
And stop using all caps. It’s the digital equivalent of shouting at people.
And I don’t interact with rude racists who shout at me.
I’m done.
My using caps has nothing to do with affronting anyone’s delicate ego. Lara – I am not shouting at you, at all, and no disrespect intended to you. Sorry but I completely disagree with your falsely accusing me of being racist. That is rude and completely untrue.
Yes the Treaty – ” is fact ” and yes it is an important document but does that mean it should be our present day constitution that we all honour and respect and believe in ?
Most do not and we can deny this till the cows come home.
As stated previously, just because a law is a law does not make it right and just and fair for all.
” I am not shouting at you”
when using caps online you ARE shouting at people – thats what all caps means in web comment speak
My complete and total reasoning behind using caps is not about shouting at anyone, it is about showing deep concern and importance and placing emphasis on an issue and/or what we feel is important. I am not aware of your
“web comment speak” rules. I do see yours and Laras point, though, and I will be more careful about using caps in the future. I never, and I mean never ! intended to show any disrespect or to hurt anyone when I use caps.
People can read eh
Blake…
So if Maori weren’t the first here in New Zealand, you’re saying that they deserved that “British screwed the early Maoris”?! Because that’s how I’m reading your statement.
Secondly; who were these mythical people who arrived before Maori?
What “secrets”? Who is doing the “covering up”?
Actually, I’d guess that Pakeha own more land than Maori, and there are several beaches that are private and exclusively used by their owners – and they ain’t Maori.
“Trillions”?
So, I can walk into PakNSave and grab a bottle of water and walk out without paying for it?! Silly me – I’ve been paying for it all these years!
I don’t know who those “most ” people are, Blake, but you’ve just suggested that a contract signed by Her Majesty is worthless.
Is the US Constitution also worthless?
The Magna Carta?
Here’s the irony-bit, Blake; the concept of Treaties and contracts wasn’t a Maori construct. It was put forward by the British.
So if you have a ‘beef’ with anyone, don’t put your shit on Maori who had no idea what contracts were – take your issues up with the British monarchy.
The Treaty-concept came from people from Britain – not Maori.
Maori signed in good faith.
Now you want to break it?
Hmmm, seems to me this is history repeating. Some things never change.
Frank, you make untrue assumptions about my intentions and what I have shared. Trillions was a mistake, should have been millions. I never assumed that anyone deserved to get screwed and I never stated nor believe that the Treaty is worthless nor feel it should be broken. No need to stir up poo here.
I realize, as most do, that the Treaty was generated by the british and not the Maoris. All the more reason to think about continuing on with writing our own constitution that reflects all of our rights and sovereignty. A contract that we all trust and honour and can celebrate as our own. Then we can have a National Day that warms our hearts and feels good and makes us happy to be NZ’ers.
Why is it so hard to understand why many of us do not acknowledge or celebrate Waitangi Day ? ? ? ?
As for who were the first to arrive in NZ and all the cover-ups about pre-Maori history, you will need to do your own research on that one as it is a huge and multi faceted ugly bit of hidden NZ history. I do not have a ” beef ” with anyone, especially Maoris. The cover ups and keeping secrets about all of that is real and seek out some more info and do your own research. I frankly do not have time to put up more links when most that I put up are denied publication anyway. Lets stop killing the messengers.
You consistently tell others to show the proof and show the evidence. Well maybe you need to do your own proof seeking and evidence learning when someone states something you do not agree with.
As for owning resources, I and many others, feel that no one and no group ( AND NO CRIMINAL CORPORATION ) has any right to own any resources, especially those that all people need to survive. Donky Jonky and the Natz. do not have the right to sell out our country and our deep sea oil and on and on and on and on . . . . . . #@?!*6#^%#))>?! @ !
AND THE MAORIS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO OWN OUR WATER AND OUR BEACHES AND OUR RIVERS AND OUR AIR – ETC.. . . . .
No ” Man ” has ” dominion over nature ” and never did, just a christian fallacy that has been the basis for much environment rape and greedy consumption ==>>> worldwide ! !
Blake, when I refer to facts from other sources, I generally offer references. When I request the same, and I’m told to DYOR (Do Your Own Research), I become a bit suspicious and more than a little alienated from whatever cause/source you are citing. If you have the info, it shouldn’t be hard to share it with us so we can assess it ourselves.
Otherwise, you’re guilty of the very “cover ups and keeping secrets ” that you rail against.
By the way, railing against “environment rape and greedy consumption” is a charge best laid against Pakeha, not Maori, nor other indigenous peoples. I think you’ll find that the rape of Planet Earth has been at the hands of Western governments and corporations. Not many Maori sitting on Wall Streetor City of London boards.
Your anger is fine. But it’s directed at the wrong people.
Allow me to clarify. Again Frank, you make another wrong assumption. I never made any inference to any group or peoples being responsible for our worldwide environment devastation. Clearly that has been orchestrated mostly by criminal corporations and the upper 1% ers and they are mostly white folks.
Another wrong assumption from you is that I am angry and directing my ( anger ? ) at the wrong people. I am not angry with Maori at all and I am not racist. I am very close and family with three different native american tribes and have been welcomed to participate in sacred ceremonies that most white people have no access to.
How about you read the articles you comment on so you can give better educated questions instead of linking right wing web sites at every oppertunity
I am so far from anything even remotely smelling like right wing and my links are so far from anything even remotely connected to or resembling right wing views.
Completely disagree with your above comment Sam and I do read the articles.
Do you genuinely read and understand the comments ? ? ?
I don’t always read the articles I comment on. Some times I don’t read all a comment before putting in a reply. And I go off topic a lot.
But I did read the first reply you sent to me. And that stupid link to educate yourself. And I can honestly say my IQ went down a bit after reading it. Matter fact every time I see your name I avoid it for fear of lowering my IQ more
re: water
its water rights – not water ownership
water rights is the right to manage the water in an area. not to own every drop of water in an area
If you don’t own it. No need to put a price on it then eh sport.
Blake, stop feeling so threatened by Maori and the Treaty settlement process. No one is going to take your quarter acre pavlova paradise off you.
And your suggestion that others came before Maori is risable. It’s conspiracy-stuff and designed only to undermine the Treaty.
Fact is, whether Maori were first here or not is irrelevent. The Treaty was signed with them, and not your mythical “other people”. It’s like you owning your home, the bank has a mortgage with you, not the previous land-owners. A rough metaphor, but I think you get the gist.
And to keep everyone within the Treaty happy and healthy John and his mates in the TPP will roll out the vaccine for Zika virus. After all, that’s what government is supposed to do, isn’t it? Keep people happy, healthy and prosperous … right, John?
http://geopolitics.co/2016/02/07/zikas-towering-non-evidence/
Another tin foil hat link.
…the breaking point for Asia is the SARS virus which was intended to eliminate Asian genome from the face of the Earth…
… the H1N1 virus aimed at reducing primarily the US population…
blah blah blah…
there will never be unity in this country ,its not in everyones best intrest ,mean while nzers become the minority !
I agree with everything except the ‘boomers’ tag. Lets not get ageist about our racism, Martyn.
Ok so we need the monarchy why?They arnt settling any treaty claims . Governments that we vote in as New Zealanders are settling claims with OUR own money .The monarchy slipped out the back door years ago. John keys the only one thinking of us as a whole when are we going to look foward for the well being of our chilldren instead of back trying to put right wrongs that are no fault of our own .We arnt getting any bennifits from being in it . if anything its stopping them from being held accountable . You dont get half the house untill after the divorce so to speak .
“white people” yeah casue the Scandinavian/ balkan/ Baltic/ slaves/ irish/ scottish people totally took part in colonization. referring to the the colonizing forces as “white people” is like saying “asians” bombed pearl harbor and talking to a chinese or korean ect. person as if they where at fault.
I am in no way referring to the colonizing forces as ” white people “.
Where did that come from ?
Why such leaps towards confusing rhetoric meant to confuse and misrepresent the truth ?
Wow! 106 posts so far and no sign of it slowing down.
And Kiwis claim not to be racist…
But what I can’t work out is with so many ‘experts’ on Maori Tikanga and the Tiriti in Kiwiland, why is there no agreement?
The Yankee settlers used exactly the same justifications for land theft and genocide; they called it ‘manifest destiny’.
I can see ‘manifest deny’ is alive and well in Godzone/Texas.
Read and grow up guys…
Maoris can be just as racist as non-Maoris and often are more so.
I have many close friends/family in the states who are from three different native american tribes and they show very little violent/aggressive tendencies or racism. Even in Hawaii, I experienced far less racism there than I have from Maoris here in NZ.
So there are two sides to every coin. Just because many of us despise the rude and insulting term ” Pakeha ” (white pig) does not make us racist. And just because many of us want a constitution that honours all of us and supports peace and unity and respects and celebrates sovereignty also does not make us racist. I am not racist at all and never have been.
Regardless of if hes right or wrong, the corporations and the government are laughing at the way so many are getting into the race/cultural debate. Divided we fall, united we stand. Lets face it there may be some grievances that need to be settled, there maybe lots even but if we continue to look at ways this divides us we will still be piss-arsing around when the TPPA gets ratified. Do we want a united and free New Zealand and if so lets all work together and deal with big issue of keeping New Zealand for New Zealanders.
Well said and so true. The ugly greedy forces just love to see us divided.
If we forced an election right now and the Greens encouraged their voters to vote Labour, than we would have a Labour/Green/NZ First leadership, right now !, and then unity and healing and sound; pro-people leadership could begin. Whats wrong with that? James Shaw is a powerful force. The maori party is dead in the water. Andrew Little is coming out of the closet with fire in his guts and we need to at least give him a chance instead of constantly putting him down. Listen to his speech in parliament yesterday in response to donky jonky.
I realize my above suggestion is a pipe dream and something the greens would not consider but it is a ” what if ” good idea to dream about.
The change could happen immediately if we all were united and wanted to get the job done in our best interest.
Lets consider the possibility of forcing an early election, maybe after Bernie wins ? ? ?
It’s MMP not first past the post. Deal with it. You sound like a whiny Aussie trying to win back the Bledisloe
Not whiny
Not aussie
Care less about the Bledisloe
We the people should be able to fire and hire those deserving politicians that are on ” our payroll “. Especially those heavily in bed with the criminal Banks that sold the world’s workers and mortgage holders out for a quick and easy buck. Criminal Banksters (and criminal politicians) deserve to be prosecuted and put in prison like Iceland did.
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