2014 was an election that split the Opposition into multiple splinters. The lowest voter turn out in a NZ election saw the wealthy and those who property speculate turn out in droves while the young, disenfranchised, weak and poor whose lives are a daily grind refused to believe a political solution could change their lives in any meaningful way and they stayed at home.
It etched into many Opposition MPs minds that a strong Left wing platform is not electable and so Labour embarked upon their step to the centre, MANA was eliminated and the Greens elected a former Coke-Cola consultant to woo the Blue-Green hipsters.
The self congratulatory crap the Greens were spouting recently about the ‘success’ of climate change talks in Paris highlights that the Greens are actually a lot more pro-market than most of their voters are aware of. For the Greens the market works and all that is needed is for the real cost of the pollution a product creates be forced into the price of that product. Business and consumers can then make decisions and choices based on a market that fully recognises the cost of the pollution they create.
This means the possibility of a National-Green Government, as suggested by Rodney Hide, is actually far more possible than first glance would suggest. The Greens under Shaw have already agreed to leave Farmers out of any climate change legislation for 5 years – so it’s not an impossible idea.
Key would want nothing more than to cut a deal with the Greens – sidelining NZ First and establishing the kind of full spectrum political power National now enjoys – the problems would be for Shaw.
The Wellington clique who run the Greens want power and they want it desperately – Shaw can afford to lose left wing supporters as long as he stays over 5% so he’s got something to offer Key but the rupture would split the Caucus. There are already deep divisions in the Green Caucus and a distrust of what Shaw actually represents so open discussions about working with Key has to be done as an open question post the 2017 election and not something Shaw can try openly.
Labour seem to have finally woken up to the need to work with the Greens and are embarking this year an a series of policy events where they can both be seen side by side but Shaw’s Red Peak shanking is a reminder that the Greens are hungry enough to cut a deal with anyone.
I think the chances of Rodney Hide being right here are low, as there are too many strong minded Green MPs who simply could not accept such a deal, but if Shaw lost votes to do a deal with National – those MPs would lose their list position and wouldn’t be there to fight back.
I am guessing it would turn into one big shit fight however don’t rule it out Key will do anything to stay in power and keep Winston out of the picture?
So do we call Rodney Hide a “born again greenie” then?
I don’t think so. If you read his column he doesn’t actually say he supports any green policy, and my interpretation is that he is another on the political right that thinks the Greens are up for any political carrot that they can dangle under their nose.
I have noticed a number of right wing political commentators saying similar things recently, as if they sense a left-right split in the Green Party is imminent and they want to make sure they can lure the right-leaning faction (the “responsible” ones as they put it) over to them and banish the others back to the political wilds (as happened to the Alliance).
Well you know that actually happened, kind of, back in the 90s. We had the Progressive Greens – described as the ACT Party with a green face. Under MMP they might even have won a seat or two but had little chance under FPP.
I can speculate that if we had another kind of Progressive Greens, which seems to be what Hide and others are wishing for, they would probably become a kind of David Seymour sideshow act, all talk and bluster, signifying very little.
Right-wing politics and green politics are like chalk and cheese, they don’t mix well and those who advocate it usually do not have any genuine concern for the green portion of it.
For the Greens to go into coalition with National, remember the rhyme about the spider and the fly.
‘the spider and the fly’ or has been suggested elsewhere..the praying mantis mating ritual..with the greens in the role of the male…
..and/but let’s not forget..that russel norman..just prior to the ’14 election..openly mused about doing just that..a move that i don’t doubt contributed to their eventual lower than expected vote..
..and/but let’s not forget that the alternative is little/labour..eh..?
..and urrently them’s/there is some barren ground..
..little has really ramped up the tweedle-dee/tweedle-dum factor in our major political parties..
..and does anyone think it is coincidental that his dragging of labour to the right also sees him being praised by the corporate-media..and the usual rightwing ‘pundits’..(i use that word loosely)..?
.so the fact of the matter is there is very little real difference between key-tory and little-labour
..so..hypothetically speaking…were the tories to grasp the environment nettle..and to make serious moves on environmental-policies..(what could be argued is the inevitable anyway..so why not just get on with it?)..
..that could open a door of opportunity..
..and/but let’s not forget..taking into account that there are rumours of bill english driving a rethink of policy around poverty..
..a rethink devoid of ideology..but focused on the social costs of poverty..and the economic case for treating poverty different than we have to date..
..the economic case for not only avoiding the cost to society from the outcomes of/from poverty..
..but the economics 101 fact that the best way to stimulate an economy is to increase the incomes of the worst-off..because of the fact that 100% of the incomes of the poorest is spent on just living..so any increases in their income churns immediately back into the tills of the retailers/service-providors..
..so should those ideology-free rumours be true/correct..english would be able to argue that case to his tory colleagues..argued on dry/economic-grounds..devoid of any do-good emotion-pandering..
..an argument which must lead to some formula for increased incomes for the worst-off..(thru tax-free/tax-credits/whatever..)
..so..were those two things to eventuate..on the environment and on poverty-busting..
..and with little-labour offering maybe even less.?
..then i could see that coalition argument being made..
..but without such ideology/policy seachanges from national/key..
..no chance/no way..
..a wearied turn to an ever more rightwing labour will still be the only option
” For the Greens to go into coalition with National, remember the rhyme about the spider and the fly.”
Case in point, the 1996 coalition between the Nats and NZ First. It nearly destroyed Winston’s party forever.
Mary is 100% correct; “The NZ Greens caucus and membership wouldn’t allow such a deal.”
I, for one, would tear up up Green Party membership card.
The NZ Greens caucus and membership wouldn’t allow such a deal. It would be offensive to the party, its politics and its supporters.
If such a situation was suggested, then I think the party would rid itself of James Shaw first, before infecting itself by going into a possible coalition with NatzKEY. Well I hope it would make a stand!
Shaw’s recent suspicious move of giving FJK a free pass on the flag issue and then praising the outcome of the climate conference in Paris, does make me wonder if perhaps he is a corporate plant in the party,there to assist NatzKEY! Nothing would surprise me in politics these days!
Shaw needs to be watched next year. Very closely watched, to the extent his every political move being scrutinized!
rodney hide’s opinion being even vaguely considered for anything other than what colour he’d like his prison cell painted is absurd in the extreme. Fuck rodney hide, the gristly little prick. And of course our Greens are going to be colluding with the Nats. If they’d intended to do otherwise they’d have done so by now.
We’re governed by a cadre of swine and politically the only movement we have in the sludge at the bottom of that particular pond is the writhing’s of other political swine.
I made the terrible mistake, born of desperation, of going to the warehouse on boxing day in a poorer neighbourhood. In there, in that vile place, were the scuffling unwashed scavenging amongst the twinkling plastics for a better deal. In there, was the future waiting of us all.
I don’t know know what anthropomorphic climate change denier is up to by suggesting a completely unlikely coalition between National and the Greens. But The Daily Blog seems to be running a negative campaign against the Green Party. It consistently forgives Labour its poor policies like actually supporting TPPA while consistently sledging the Greens and James Shaw in particular. Let’s just remind ourselves that the Green Party is the only party in Parliament that has policies that mirror the progressive values of TDB in housing, health, drug reform, anti privatisation, education, the environment etc etc.
That’s all well and good but if the dozy buggers don’t get out there and make a noise about it ordinary blokes and sheilahs won’t know it.
Since Pshaw took over as leader (NOT co-leader) he is the only one to have said anything on behalf of the Greens. Where are all these other brilliant simians? Nothing.
Green is now a toxic waste land.
Sorry – but your comment shows that you have little to no understanding whatsoever of the Green Party, or its Policies, or it’s membership, nor even of its work over the past year. Nor of all the work over the past year by hundreds of Green party members on all manner of issues.
Your comment is simply rubbish.
If you were to regularly look on scoop you would see numerous statements – as many statements issued by Labour or National – on a wide variety of issues by all the Green Party spokes people. The fact that James Shaw – being the new co-leader is under the spotlight by the MSM does NOT make him the Leader of the Party. He knows that, and so does everyone else (apart from the ignorant few who seem to comment loudly on political blogs).
As for James’s statement regarding the Agreement at COP21 – it WAS an historic agreement. For once in over 20 years all the leaders of the world actually agreed to take AGW seriously. They even set an aspirational a target (that most people who understand these things – including James Shaw – think is practically unachievable ) of 1.5 degrees. Sure there is no binding agreement – there never was going to be – but the review process is; and from that, countries like NZ who are slacking in their reduction of emissions, will be highlighted, with the resultant consequences – trade sanctions, etc.
Yeah, nah…
You’re free to think all that if you wish but for the ordinary blockhead like me the Greens have been stunningly silent except for the odd screwball neo-lib comment from Pshaw.
Middle class wankers…
First step to get people talking is seed the idea in peoples minds, then ramp up the message frequently, once that has been done people will start believing that it is true. Rodney’s article is blatant ring wing propaganda & was no doubt carefully crafted by Crosby/Textor as the beginning of the propaganda machine starting to build up to full speed in the lead up to the next election.
Exactly, if you wanted to neuter Shaw how would you go about it?
White-ant him – let him get destroyed by his own kind.
I made this suggestion in another blog site and got nothing derision from hurt Green supporters. Shaw is a corporate boy from way back, and if you lay with dogs you surely get fleas! So for him to Trojan Horse in the corporates influence would be the ultimate coup d etat!
I am quite sure Shaw knows joining up with National would seriously hurt the Greens but with the nod and a wink from National both party’s could do an Epsom here and there. Or they could go it alone and risk losing their voter base if only to get some of the rights numbers if it meant permanently or in the very least long-term side lining the left so the corporate wealthy could carry on carrying on business as usual.
For National a Blue-Green alliance would be credibility in spades temporarily, even if the whole charade collapsed as it surely will, it’s a win-win because the Green Party as a political entity would be history.
And what is concerning is there has been zero “Greens are looneys” strategy or any goading at all from National since Shaw rode into town. And with manipulative slime like Key and Joyce involved be worried!
Somehow though those who can’t be bothered voting need to wake up. Their party vote is never wasted and they could change this country overnight and their futures but how you get that through their thick heads I know not!
You’re right!, the influential Greenies from affluent NZ are taking over the party and re-positioning their values, supporting national(wtf).
A coalition involving National and the Greens would intiate the disintegration of both party’s, as seen with NZ First.
This does show that power is the ultimate reward.
Rubbish, the long-term card-carrying party members will desert in droves. The greens aren’t enough of a threat to warrant the treatment – cute theory though.
These ACT neoliberal types will “dance” with any devil to get their privatising, trickle-down bullshit installed into New Zealand, under cover of nuclear and flag debates and oppositions unable to work together.
They did it by stealth in 1980’s Labour under the direction of the Business Round Table. They did it with the Brash-brethren. Pekinese Dunne, Douglas/Prebble/Banks and twinkle-toed Rodders Hide; Moon-man Craig was next cab off the neoliberal rank. Maori Party have helped charterised schools.
So the next unprincipled privatisations will be done with the help of the Greens. Simon Bridges and Nick Smith and James Shaw MP
Co-leader Spokesperson for Climate Change and Economic Development will team up to privatise the whenua.
And the neolib revolution will be complete. Kiwis will be slaves in their own country and 1% of the population will own 99% of the wealth. But, look on the bright side, we’ll have a new flag?
What a load of codswallop!
Who have been the most outspoken Party against privatization of schools, electricity, the TPPA, the prisons, health, housing, and social services? No! it’s NOT Labour.
Read the public statements issued regularly by the Green’s spokespeople on all of the above issues on scoop. These are not reported in the MSM because the MSM are, as usual, asleep and choose only to report the doings of JFK and awesum Richie, as directed by their masters.
It’s drivel, of course. Rodney is just part of the Right’s efforts to discredit the Green’s by association. He completely ignores the democratic mature of the party and the depth of the passion for social justice and equity among Green members, supporters and voters. There is no doubt the new leadership is dealing with the constant derision from their opposition and the msm by trying to appear more centrist. It’s aistake, of course, just as Little’s efforts ate, but the great success of the neo-libs has been to frame any criticism of their failed, cruel ideology as ‘exyreme’ and ‘loony’ so we can understand the impulse. Imo, a better response would be appeal to the disenfranchised with a rallying calls to end the madness. But I don’t have to win an election.
This.^ I mean its stupid really. We dont trust rightwing analysis unless its unfair, largely baseless, shallow and divisive commentary against the greens? This is Rodney Hide. Come on. TDB seems to have a lot more patience for the completely inept labour party and the frequently untrustworthy winston peters while frequently running hit pieces against the greens whose history of disappointing their constituency is nothing when stacked next to labour/nzf. If you want to know why talk of blue-green alliances eminates from the green party just look at the relationship between labour and NZF, how winston manages to position himself as “kingmaker” and what kind of political power that tactic affords him when it comes to negotiating with the bigger party he wants to work with. Winston will choose labour just as the greens will, he keeps national in the air as a possibility because of what labour will offer him if they think its a genuine possibility. That leaves the greens as second fiddle when it comes to coalition offers. They are simply doing what they need to do to get labour to play ball with them. Their support base grows with each step labour takes to the right. There is no way they will forego all of that to get their first ever taste of government as part of a fourth term key-led administration. Its stupid, the analysis by TDB is completely off. Simply agreeing with people like Hide and Hooton’s musings on leftwing coalition partners ignores their ulterior motives and it is not only lazy but requires a level of suspension of disbelief beyond what i would expect from this blog.
The Greens are not doing themselves any favours at the moment with Shaw eg currying up to jonkey nact and the Red Peak corporate flag stunt calculated to undermine Labour and prop up Key.
The Greens have been lack- lustre in parliament ever since Shaw took the co-leadership( and I originally supported him for his youth and oratory skills and ignored the warnings about his corporate background … luckily I didnt have a vote because I am not a member)…imo the sooner they get rid of Shaw in the co-leadership the better…He puts potential Green voters off ( who incidentally think just the same as Hide and Hooton ….ie the Greens are heading for nactional coalition)
As an old greens financial supporter and activist on a occasion I will be voting Winston NZF…or Mana (if is it can rebrand as a socialist Green/ Labour alternative )
Wait, is this article seriously speculating that in the future it is possible the Greens will get around 5% of the party vote?! That is incredibly unlikely. In fact, they were set to gain a huge amount this year but achieved well under the opinion polls after the low voter turnout, and even then they kept a strong 13%. As time goes on, Green policies will look more sensible and desirable, not less. And if Labour continue their centrist, unpopular stances, then Greens will gain even more, and it will be a NZ First/Green dominance of the left-of-centre.
The Greens are essentially a single issue party. Where they go wrong is when they dabble in areas where they’re not competent – social policy issues, economics and the like. It makes them look foolish and an easy target for their opposition. It also muddies the message to the electorate, leaving them confused “Is this an environmental party or a Marxist party?” and drives blue-greens away.
If Shaw can lead them from being a red-green party to become a green-green party then all sorts of opportunities open up:
> By becoming left/right neutral they could become kingmakers under the MMP system. Just like NZ First.
> It would get them out from under the train wreck that is Labour. I see little hope of Labour winning an election in the next election cycle so how long are the Greens prepared to wait for their current ally? Maybe it’s time to move on?
> They would garner wider support rather than just be the natural home of immature people with goaty beards and knitted hats.
> Lastly and most importantly they could join a government and get some actual policies implemented!
No doubt much to the dismay of the Left, the Greens and National could have a lot of natural overlap and I can see several areas where the Greens could formulate environmental policy and get National backing. Because runs-on-the-board are what count.
Is this a cut and paste of a comment you made five years ago?
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