THE DAILY BLOG’S EDITOR, Martyn Bradbury, believes New Zealand is better than its present Prime Minister and Government. I hope, desperately, that he’s right. But, ours is a representative democracy, and my great fear is that this John Key-led, National Party-dominated, Government is just that – representative.
Were a majority of Kiwi voters shocked by the behaviour of the Prime Minister and the Speaker during Question Time, yesterday? (10/11/15) Or did John Key launch his extraordinary attack on the Opposition parties in the confident knowledge that, far from being shocked and disgusted, the New Zealand public was lined-up right behind him?
One has only to listen to the talkback radio stations, or hear the comments from listeners read out on RNZ-National’s Morning Report to know that there is a substantial number (quite possibly a majority) of New Zealanders who view the entire Australian immigration scandal from the Prime Minister’s perspective. How likely is it, really, that a politician as shrewd as Key would accuse the Opposition of “supporting rapists and murderers” if he wasn’t quietly confident that most New Zealanders saw things his way?
Fairfax Media’s political editor, Tracy Watkins, thinks it most unlikely: “He [did it] knowing he is on the right side of the argument politically – most people would have no argument with Key’s assessment New Zealand should not bother shedding any tears over the plight of the Kiwi detainees.”
Coming at it from a slightly different angle, the NZ Herald’s political editor, Audrey Young, was equally confident in her assessment of yesterday’s events: “The suggestions by some Labour MPs on Twitter that democracy was at stake was over-reaction and nonsense. There were plenty of errors in the high drama at Parliament today but there was nothing undemocratic in what occurred.”
The high drama and errors Young refers to relate to the behaviour of the Speaker of the House of Representatives, David Carter, and to the decision of about half the Labour Opposition to walk-out of the parliamentary chamber in protest. Against all precedent, Carter had ruled that the PM was under no obligation to withdraw or apologise for his repeated accusations that the Labour MPs were supporting rapists and murderers. When the furious Labour MPs finally returned to the House they moved a symbolic Vote of No-Confidence in the Speaker. Again, this was a most unusual and disquieting response to the Speaker’s behaviour.
The independence of the Speaker – most especially his or her independence from the Executive Branch of Government – is a cornerstone of the Westminster System of representative democracy. The tradition dates at least as far back as the 1640s in England.
It was in 1642 that King Charles I, accompanied by a company of soldiers, strode into the House of Commons to arrest five Members of Parliament on charges of High Treason. When asked to point out the five traitors, the Speaker, William Lenthall, replied:
“May it please Your Majesty, I have neither eyes to see, nor tongue to speak in this place, but as the House is pleased to direct me, whose servant I am here; and I humbly beg Your Majesty’s pardon that I cannot give any other answer than this to what Your Majesty is pleased to demand of me.”
As our constitution has evolved over the past 300 years, the Executive and Legislative branches of government have, in some respects, become one. The members of the Cabinet are all drawn from the House of Representatives, as is the Chair of Cabinet, the Prime Minister. The contemporary equivalent of King Charles I, the most important political figure in the land, must be a Member of Parliament.
This places a very heavy burden on the Speaker’s shoulders. If he or she is to be “Parliament’s Person”: the staunch protector of the legislators’ rights and privileges against the Executive’s natural inclination to make them dance to its tune; then it is vital that there be not the slightest hint of any bias in the Executive’s favour. Most vitally, the Speaker must ensure that the Prime Minister and Cabinet can be held to account for their actions. When questions are put to them by MPs, it is the Speaker’s duty to extract meaningful answers.
It is also vital that the Speaker defend the rights of those MPs who form no part of the majority that keeps the Executive in office – the Opposition. Any suggestion that the conduct of the Speaker is regularly failing the test of strict impartiality, and that the Opposition is being thwarted in its duty to hold the Executive to account, is of the most extreme seriousness. If true, then democracy would indeed be at stake. Because a parliament in which the Opposition is prevented from holding the Government to account, is a parliament from which the Executive is free to rule without restraint.
It is this absolute obligation on the part of the Speaker – and of our democratic system generally – to protect the rights of the minority against the power of the majority that goes to the heart of the arbitrary incarceration of New Zealand citizens by the Australian state. No matter what these detainees have done, as human-beings they have the right to be treated justly and humanely. That the Prime Minister has a majority of New Zealanders backing his cruel denigration of their characters matters not one whit. Human rights are not the playthings of majorities: they are inherent and inalienable.
In and out of Parliament, the protection of the rights of the minority is what allows our democracy to function. It is no over-reaction on the part of an Opposition to call out a Speaker who is failing to provide that protection. And to suggest that, in its absence, our democracy is not threatened, is the most dangerous kind of nonsense.
The PM and his biased and rude speaker do not need any refresher courses, they need to be replaced with ethical and fair and good leaders.
Our democracy is being made a fool of here in the NZ Parliament and this is not the first time John Key has been rude and insulting and a total embarrassment to the NZ people. He can not speak for us and state that he knows what the NZ people want because he is out of touch with the majority of the people and most have lost massive amounts of respect for him.
Congrats. to all those who walked out of Parliament yesterday and today.
The speaker – David Parker – is by far the most biased and owned and ineffective speaker we have ever had and it is disgusting watching him in action. He brings so much chaos to Parliament.
I had a dream that thousands descending on Parliament and kicked out the idiots and took back our govt. and took back our democracy.
Not a bad dream.
We have a tyranny of the majority in power, so nothing really surprises me anymore. If John Key declared himself ‘PM for life’ I wouldn’t be surprised either, as NZ is becoming more of an authoritarian democracy by the day.
The sad probability is that if he did propose to become PM for life: the sleepy hobbits would enthusiastically support it.
David Parker is not the Speaker, but nosey parker, car parker or any other parker would make a better Speaker than the current Speakef David Carter, and that includes David Parket, although I suspect that he is not tough enough.
Carter 😉
Can someone actually present the facts on this matter, alot of humbug going on at the moment?
Carter did not HEAR Key’s remark! Really? Carter seems to be not only quite biased, one sided and dumb, but seems completely deaf too. He needs to resign on health grounds alone.
Yes, that is Carter’s stock excuse: “I didn’t hear that….” Nearly everyone else in the place did so he must have very selective hearing. Lockwood Smith on a bad day was 10 times better a Speaker than Carter on a good day.
Carter heard FJK’s offensive comments alright. A clip from last night’s news (TV ONE), shows the Speaker standing, screaming for order, just as the PM was finishing his outburst! Obviously since then, FJK/Crosby Textor spinners have had a discreet word in Carter’s ear!
Carter is there to protect FJK and nothing else, so the PM can finish his murky job of selling out NZ and NZers to overseas crony interests, for a lucrative payback for himself!
Must be a whizz bang lip reader then, as I am sure it was Key’s repeating that comment that got him all fizzed up, on his feet and calling for order.
John Key, reputedly our Prime Minister, has a moral compass equivalent to Krusty the Clown. Simon Bridges is a switch operated National Party cheerleader. Speaker Carter is a master of weasel words. And this is supposed to be what this government represent???? FFS!
I totally agree with what Blake Posted concerning his, and I guess many others thinking the same as, the Removal of this Corrupt and offensive New Zealand Government Party PM JOHN KEY. Yes REMOVE Yes REMOVE Yes REMOVE NOW BLAKE your DREAM will be the Best DREAM that I’m sure will soon come TRUE.
Of course most Kiwi voters were not shocked by the behaviour of the Prime Minister and the Speaker during Question Time, yesterday.
A huge number simply don’t care. A number are in total, “In John We Trust Mode.” As is often said, he could commit the most heinous crime and those supporters would be vociferous in their defence of him.
The sight of a Prime Minister patently lying should be one we should never have to contemplate let alone see yet it has become common. It is accepted because of the “John Always Tells the Truth” mode.
We rock from Olympic success, to rugby success, to royal visits, to “look, John is on the World Stage” mode. Throw in an earthquake or two and things like a desperately needed flag debate, a boat race, the Sky City Convention deal, the odd Oravida type skirmish or Northland by-election do and we’re too busy to get serious about serious stuff. We’re in “John’s a Bloody Good Joker and He’s Got Everything Under Control” mode.
A disaster, a tragedy, something terrible happens and citizens rally around. We congratulate each other about what wonderful people we are – the best, most caring people in the world in the most beautiful country on Earth. An illusion.
We do not meet the wish of Bradbury, we are not better than the Prime Minister and the Speaker. We are unthinking, we are thick, we are gullible, we are being taken for a ride. We may not be like the followers on the Kim Jong-un videos with the compulsory reverence. Pictures of coerced smiles and mandatory happiness are not needed. We are nasty.
Our wane is demonstrated daily on Kiwiblog and some of the other red neck habitats. And our ugliness. Go to the Trade Me Message Board and see how long it takes to identify those who would pass John Key a towel to wipe the blood and give him a cup of tea after he’d ripped the arms off a newborn baby before they continue their crusades against human rights.
People may say they care about democracy but they do not. They want no opposition, they want totalitarianism as if that is something able to be vested in a mass.
What they see as inherent and inalienable are not human rights, but power. They like John Key’s style of that and in the palm of his hand they quite merrily played the ANZAC and Gallipoli games and gloried in the notion of fighting for freedom and the bravery of ‘our boys’ dying so we could enjoy freedom.
I thought John Key didn’t quite get it. History, protocols, propriety, tradition were mere bagatelle, he was to usher in a new way of doing things.
The thing is he did get it. More importantly, and to plan, the minions didn’t get it. The Speaker defending rights? The rights of the minority? Democracy? Pshaw
That we are Pete. Its not a pretty portrait. So true.
Nicely put, Pete.
It is true that there is more evidence that the typical New Zealander is ignorant and viscious than that he or she is contemplative and compassionate.
But where we can, we still have to act as if they still have access to their higher selves, or we will end up abandon the future to the “Ugly Kiwi”.
Great comment Pete!
I also think that people just can’t handle the fact that they’ve been duped by Key and National.
I have two National voting family members who are always keen to announce ‘I think John Key is doing a great job’ however when asked why they think this, there is either silence or a defensive response. Not once when this has come up (multiple occasions) have I ever received an explanation or evidence of this ‘good job’.
I surmise that plenty of National voting dupes out there just can’t handle the fact that they’ve voted against their own interests & the interests of their fellow New Zealanders and will never admit it. They know it deep down but pride and hubris are in the way.
Pete, I could not have written a better comment! You hit the nail on its head, full blow. I would qualify though, that not all NZers think like a plank, there is a solid minority that cares a lot, but sadly they do not have the majority and are hence living under this kind of immoral quasi dictatorship and suffer. Others are just signed off, they have NO interest in politics, and would not even know what goes on in Parliament. Many or most do not even read the daily news, like from a newspaper or so, and not even a majority watch the prime time news.
Key and Natsies know this, so they can get away with all this shameful stuff. I think in some other places in Europe, where some populations take politics and other affairs a bit more seriously, where they grow up with a culture of valuing information, education and political actions by governments, oppositions and interest groups, Key and his gang would not have shit show ever getting into government. And he has his hideaway refuge in Hawaii anyway, and once it is all over for him, he will disappear and live a life in luxury retirement.
“The speaker – ”
WHO???
Right sentiment, OK, but wrong “Speaker”.
Like everything else with the Key government that is stage-managed, manipulated, paid off or plain intimidated out of existence, why should we expect the position of Speaker of the house to be any different?
Carter has been a simpering cringe worthy embarrassment.
Out of his depth. It happens. He’s just deluded. That’s not the point. The issue is systemic. How can we prevent parliament being held hostage to such incompetency in the future?
One answer would be to not allow MP candidates to also be on the party list. As MMP works at present, a bad, unpopular MP can be voted decisively out of her electorate, then get right back into cabinet on the party list. The Irish version of MMP forbids this double dipping. What we have ended up with now is a parliament with all the rejects still in it. The party list should NOT allow constituency candidates to get back if they are voted out in the constituency. Many people suggested this at the MMP review but it was not taken up.
Chris Trotter is absolutely right. “Human rights are not the playthings of majorities: they are inherent and inalienable”. It is the job of our government to protect the inalienable rights of its citizens regardless of the wishes of the majority. Exposing the public to a robust debate could easily shift the opinions of the majority but what this Government does best is to mislead and stifle debate by subterfuge ( Anti-TPPA = anti-trade, pro human rights= pro-rapists, etc). Scratch the veneer of democracy and what you see at the core is an autocratic Government drunk with power and hubris.
The most pathetic bit is that Key is arguing to bring the “rapists” back, while the opposition wants them to stay in Aussie. Are you suggesting that kiwis are SO vindictive they would rather have them back among us when we don’t want them just because it’s not what they want ?
If so, that really is, what one would term, completely fucked.
This majority , or so called majority could be pulled down tomorrow If Dunne and the Maori Party withdrew their dubious support for this damn awful Government .
For them not to do so just shows how little they value democracy and how much they love having their bellies rubbed by Key.
Despicable and gutless they are.
Davies and other members of the LP invited the PM’s response. They walked into a trap of their own making.
There may be doubts as to the actual numbers but there are many in detention who have been guilty of violent crimes. I have no wish to see them I’ll treated but neither am I going to shed tears because they are locked up and awaiting deportation.
It is all very well blathering on about their human rights but what about the rights of those they have violated in some way.
W
JK’s remark was intemperate but if Davies goes a prods a wasp nest with a stick he should not be surprised if he and his friends get stung.
The vast majority of people, left or right, are compassionate and care about real injustice. However compassion has its limits and I resent the implication that because I do not shed tears for those detained I am in some way lacking as a human being.
The LP has chosen the wrong battle to fight. Mr Davies in particular should fight the battle of poverty and deprivation in his own constituency. He might find greater support.
Finally for those who like to champion the latest ’cause du jour’ read a book called Conspicuous Compassion by Patrick West. It may strike a chord.
Doubts? Perhaps we need more accurate information. Where do you suggest we look, other that what we already have? If somebody has served their time, why are they still being held? If they are coming back to NZ, as Paddy Gower says, (DON’T PANIC) what systems (don’t you just really, honestly, hate that word?) are in place to meet this influx? Of course, it matters not that Paddy was just quoting some natsy-provided figures. Which have been contradicted by Australia’s Peter Dutton. (Is that even his name?) (Yes, it is. I just checked on google.) So let’s get some clear, unbiased information please. (And make sure you record the source… please, )
If someone is a serial killer, a rapist and a pedophile and they serve their time and upon release are ‘detained’ in a detention centre (read prison) that is a crime no matter who it is done to. Our laws and Australia’s say so. They do not say a criminals freedom and liberty can be taken from him on a whim. And if they did that would not protect you from he whose whim is to unlawfully imprison you!!!
I agree completely. If a law breaker serves their time, is that not the end of the story and why incarcerate them a second time ? Who gives these idiots the legal rights to do what they are doing at Christmas Island? It is the upper 1% NWO psychopaths who are in charge of Obama and Key and dictate the anti-terrorists laws so they will have full control when the masses wake up and revolt. They are setting up their prisons and bases and concentration camps all over the world getting ready to control the masses when they see fit.
“It is all very well blathering on about their human rights but what about the rights of those they have violated in some way.”
Their rights are not restored by taking others’ rights away. That is the thinking of the Vindictive Sentencing Trust.
Many of those languishing on Christmas Island have not violated anyone’s rights in any way at all.
“The LP has chosen the wrong battle to fight. Mr Davies in particular should fight the battle of poverty and deprivation in his own constituency. He might find greater support. ”
Finally a right wing admission of poverty and deprivation in our country. It was never ever raised under a labour tenure!
You say “I have no wish to see them I’ll (sic) treated but neither am I going to shed tears because they are locked up and awaiting deportation.”
Quit the hyperbole; nobody is asking you to shed tears but I do feel you are being a tad disingenuous.
And then you say “I resent the implication that because I do not shed tears for those detained I am in some way lacking as a human being..”
Yep well I’d say you’ve just demonstrated that you are ‘lacking as a human being.’
” Mr Davies in particular should fight the battle of poverty and deprivation in his own constituency. He might find greater support.”
In other words, Ben, what you’re saying is stop opposing National and do something that doesn’t upset the applecart?
Hi Ben,
If you prefer, try to think of it this way.
It’s not about these specific individuals who are being detained or their specific attributes or crimes. Those particular people are entirely irrelevant to the important issues at stake.
Those issues are fundamentally about whether, as modern civilised societies, we allow ourselves to act in arbitrary ways towards people.
Or, instead, do we set ourselves limits as to how we deal with all people?
Put simply: It’s not about the detainees’ moral status (deserving or not deserving of sympathy); it’s about our moral character and associated ethics concerning our ability to establish moral limits to the kinds of ways we act as a society to members of society.
Whether you or I feel like ‘shedding tears’ over particular individuals or whether we like or dislike particular individuals has absolutely nothing – zero – to do with the issue.
It’s completely irrelevant and of entirely no consequence.
Is that so hard to understand?
Damn.
Well said, Puddlegum.
Thanks Frank – much appreciated.
I have enough information that was made available to me, concerning a complaint about issues at the Ombudsmen’s Office, totally underfunded and unable to fulfil it’s functions, that was sent to the Speaker, and he just threw it out.
The Speaker is NOT fit for office, was placed into his job due to support by Key and his Nats seniors in government, as they wanted someone sympathetic to their ideas, and that would facilitate the kind of defacto dictatorial system we have now.
Officers of Parliament have due to inability to act, due to bizarre decisions, due to general inaction to do anything, become a total laughing stock under this government, that includes Privacy Commissioner, HDC and Ombudsmen.
The Speaker seems to see nothing wrong with the status quo according to a letter I read, and this will be made available soon via the WordPress website nzsocialjusticeblog soon. There is more to come, exposing the rot we have in this country.
The wider public is being misled 24/7 and told that all that matters are their jobs, work, tax cuts and to just keep going, no matter what. Heard of the brighter future and nonsense?
Lies, lies and deception, and this is now showing, as Key has shown yet again the dark side of his character. He is not fit for the job, nor is the Speaker, we no longer have a functioning Parliament, where female MPs and others feel forced to walk out, due to speaker’s inaction and PM insults. We have endless bias and drivel, we are sick of this, as informed few citizens, it is time to end this.
F*** John Key I ask you to resign, especially as labelling all on Christmas Island in the camp there as rapists and murderers, as few if any are that, and as a decorated Afghanistan Kiwis soldier is held there also under questionable reasons. He protected the PM during a visit to the forces in Afghanistan, the PM has insulted him and the forces, made a dick of himself, insulted women suffering harassment and rape, and deserves to go now. It is over, Mr Key, you are NOT fit for the job of leading a government in this country.
There are no Kiwi Rapists or Murderers in this detainment camp.
None.
So?
FJK and Carter run Parliament like the pair of mobster thugs they are!
You can’t tell me there are no NatzKEY women MPs who are not offended by the PM’s recent comments. Yet, they won’t stand up to him and speak out. They should be supporting and unify with the Opposition women, by walking out!
Why I wonder? Because I’d say, they are bullied by the creeping, festering mange FJK, no doubt!
Parliament, courtesy of FJK and Carter, has become a criminal den of sleaze, slime and squalor! Shame on the pair of them. However, more to the point, shame on the gutless NatzKEY MPs in particular the women, who refuse to challenge FJK and Carter! Their pathetic, irresponsible attitude is contributing to the threatening situation in Parliament at present!
This poem by Yeats was relevant a few years ago and now even more so. The Prime Minister and his cabinet are dragging us down deeper and deeper into a dark place. “The falcon cannot hear the falconer; Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold; Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The Second Coming
Turning and turning in the widening gyre
The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
The best lack all conviction, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity.
Surely some revelation is at hand;
Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
Troubles my sight: a waste of desert sand;
A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
Wind shadows of the indignant desert birds.
The darkness drops again but now I know
That twenty centuries of stony sleep
Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?
If New Zealanders settle for this kind of obnoxious behavior from a moneyed, amoral man pretending to be our Prime Minister then truly we deserve the government we get. This was the ugly side of Kiwi politics not seen since the grim days of Rob Muldoon.
I believe this classic song from the 1960’s has in it the seed of truth of whats going on right now in our Parliament. And there is a chilling reminder of just how delicate is our democracy contained within its simplified lyrics.
There must be some kind of way out of here, ”
Said the joker to the thief,
“There’s too much confusion, I can’t get no relief.
Business men – they drink my wine
Plowmen dig my earth
None will level on the line
Nobody of it is worth.”
“No reason to get excited, ”
The thief – he kindly spoke,
“There are many here among us
Who feel that life is but a joke
But you and I we’ve been through that
And this is not our fate
So let us not talk falsely now
The hour’s getting late.”
All along the watchtower
Princess kept the view
While all the women came
And went bare-foot servants too
Outside in the cold distance
A wild cat did growl
Two riders were approaching
And the wind began to howl, hey.
Bob Dylan and Jimi Hendrix had it right and in a nutshell … let these words sink in and let them sink in good – what the ‘ PM’ did and what the Opposition recorded in their walk out protest was indeed , the practice of Democracy.
The more one looks into this , the more one sees the denigration of Democracy.
The words of Audrey Young at first appear to take the appearance of unbiased reporting and viewpoint …. but upon perusal, and analyses , are nothing more than the slanted bias towards Key and the National party.
And this has implications towards the Speaker ….Carter.
For we read today about Lance Corporal Ngati Kanohi Te Eke Haapu detained in a maximum security prison outside of Perth …has committed no crime, and through work has had links to a motorcycle club.
And the reason for detention?
Because he looked ‘ scary ‘.
And yet he was a war hero and served as Keys bodyguard in Afghanistan.
The fact it is now coming out that Key used this as political ammo and appealed to the simple minded so called ‘ moral majority ‘ who only take the first few words of a report as Gospel … is apparent in the fact that we now read there are NO murderers and rapists among the detained Kiwis… just detained Kiwis on minor offences.
So we now have a situation where Key is seen to have been using these people and their misery for his own political gain.
I cannot think of a more viscous aspect of a human beings character than to act in this Pontious Pilate ‘washing of the hands’ to the fate of fellow human beings than this sort of thing.
To use the lives of others to further your political alliances while remaining silent on the plight of your own countrymen and women and to use them as political fulcrums … is the supreme form of not only weakness … but total abdication of office.
Which is what we have witnessed over and over again with this current so -called ‘PM’ .
He is no leader at all.
Simply a vicious manipulator and opportunist . And recent events have highlighted this graphically.
I like all your song references and lyrics to read and sing again. Thanks – I always appreciate reading your comments and agree with all of them.
With our skinny system of checks and balances: no Upper House, no Parliamentary Oversight by a Supreme Court, no Constitution, the risk to our democratic institutions by an over-powerful executive is all the more risky.
The only backstop to all this is a well-informed population.
This is another reason why the battle for an efficient, effective, engaged, responsible, responsive and impartial news media, particularly among the mass distribution organs: TVNZ, TV3, The Auckland Herald, the ZB network, RNZ etc is one that New Zealand can’t afford to lose.
Now jk is defending his comments using a black and white fallacy, appeal to prejudice, guilt by association, demonizing the enemy and creating a band wagon.
Carter is another self styled dictator of Planet Key, and all those who surround the toxic Keyster should be sacked.
We witnessed Hone Crosby in full flight this week, i don’t like the look of NZ’s future?
This is why the hard left will never hold the reins of power. Has the left learnt nothing from the ‘moment of truth’ and Hager circus ,thinking you’ve won the moral battle by exposing us plebs to the true evils of our masters – as if we are ignorant to the truth of how ruthless politics can be – only to be spanked by the Nats. The truth is the average Joe just doesn’t care. Key knows this hence why he wins. The average Joe/Jane’s position (and yes unfortunately we all get a vote) on Christmas Island is that as long as they are being feed three squares, can see a doctor and are not getting their finger nails pulled out the rest we don’t care about. Yes this is a human rights issue which is a subjective social construct. What I define as human rights probably does not go far enough for you on the left, which is fair enough, but my definition I suspect is what the majority holds. The people on the island can blame no one but themselves. Yes families are hurt, but that hurt was caused by the person hold up in the detention centre. Kiwi’s are guests and as a guest you don’t crap in your hosts lounge. Whilst detention for a cumulative one year sentence is harsh, we all know you don’t get sent to jail lightly, it is often the last option for the courts, often for bad crimes or recidivist offenders. So the idea that they are one off shop lifters, pot smokers, and lovable rogue types is simply not true. There is not enough detail on the soldier’s situation, but I suspect he is not there for nothing, remembering you cannot be sent there arbitrarily. Key’s duty as PM is to ensure that Australia protects the inalienable human rights of Kiwi’s on Christmas Island, nothing more. I’d personally love him to try and bend the Australian will by getting them to reverse their position because I don’t want them back. But they are our problem not theirs. The left like to frame the detention policy as one of a fascist government, running counter to the general will of its citizens. But no, this is the democratic will of the Australian populous, in other words this is what the average Joe/Jane wants, and the left either cannot or refuse to grasp that.
The oppositions feigning of outrage, hurt and offence over Key’s comments in the House was a pathetic indignatious political stunt, manipulative in its intent because it treated the public as fools, all for political gain. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/news/article.cfm?c_id=2&objectid=11544621 , as an example. Key’s point, and the opposition knew it, was why is Labour and the Greens bending over backwards for a bunch of Aussie wannabe low life’s. It sends the message to me that if they get back into power its hot tubs and foot massages for the boys in Paremoremo. It also tells me they are still not in sync with the general public, again distracted by fringe issues. The left think they have found another issue to stir the hearts and minds of the public at large, trying to expose the government and Key for what they really are, again not realising that most simply doesn’t give a toss as to what happens to them. When will you learn? If they do come back to NZ are you going to treat them as freedom fighters for the oppressed and vulnerable? Sometimes I wonder who is manipulating who here. With so much else going on in the world please explain to me why I should lose any sleep over a bunch of low life’s who made their bed and now refuse to sleep in it. Some personal responsibility ……please.
So a hint to the left, we on the (centre) right are not ignorant to what’s going on in the world, we have a heart. I have concerns over the state of the environment, the role porn and movie violence has on our young people, especially the continued misogyny of a lot of men. I have concerns with rampant unconscionable greed and inequality and its effects on the prospects for my children. We on the right have the capacity to analyse and be insightful, sophisticated and nuanced. But the conclusions that we come to we accept have to be rational and pragmatic. Martyn’s idea that the All Blacks should wear black armbands in solidarity to those on Christmas Island, whilst probably facetious, is plain stupid. See I cannot tell whether you’re joking or not hence why I can never vote for a left leaning party because it seems to be infiltrated by people who don’t know when to say when. Winston Peter’s was right when he said Kiwi’s want stability above all else, the opportunity to live our lives in freedom, within reason. Helen Clarke knew this; she was practical, pragmatic, rational and responsible leader knowing just how far to push until she was done over by an agenda driven Greens. Thats why I rate her as being the finest political leader NZ has ever had.
This obsession with Key being the second coming of evil has to end. He is not evil (my objective appraisal), just a man along with a party that does things according to their political principles, which happen to be at odds with yours. Please tell me what evil he has done, that no other leader, or party, before him has not done. To paint him as a “smiling assassin, just you wait and see”, is condescending and plain irritating. Are you seriously trying to tell us he is a corporate patsy planted here by US interests to strip wealth from Kiwi’s? If your accusation was true then Key would have to be the most evil, traitorous, treasonous, manipulative person this side of Hitler, worthy of an Academy award. The only logical place for evil intent would be with the TPPA agreement, which by all accounts is quite lame/tame. So please interrogate the issue not the person. In fact this idea that corporate types are evil has to end; yes some are (Dick Cheney), but most are not. The biggest issue is with the concept of the corporation, where everyone is at arm’s length to the harms caused in the search for profit, which creates a mindset that if what I am doing is not illegal it is ok.
You can troll me out if you wish but it disheartens me that we cannot it seems in NZ have a rational adult conversation or debate over anything anymore. It’s a “you either with me or your against me” mindset, that quite frankly sucks. There has to be compromise, and yes that means compromising some of your core principles, which it seems the left (and those on the hard right) are not prepared to do. I had a good mate at Uni who one day told me she could never be friends with someone that voted for the NATs or ACT……really….WTF!!!! , I vote National, is our friendship doomed for it? Never did tell her though. Life is about debate and compromise that is democracy, which is not perfect, delivering often less than perfect results, (we as a race will probably end up suffering because of it in the end, human nature being what it is). As Bush Jnr said “ democracy is not perfect but it’s the best thing we have”. At least he got the heave ho after 8 years. You many say “but radical things need to be done for society, no room for compromise, we must stick to our principles”. Well I ask whose principles, yours, mine, who’s? Sounds totalitarian to me.
What do you mean when you say that Helen Clark “was done over by an agenda driven Greens”? As far as I know, Labour treated the Greens with royal disdain, and happily shafted them at every opportunity. Its one of the really unpleasant memories of the Clark years.
Actually, if Bush did say that, he was probably copying Winston Churchill; http://www.123helpme.com/view.asp?id=133355
Key – principled ?!
Damn, that’s the first time anyone has said that!! I don’t think even his supporters have ever used the world “principles” in the same sentence as that lying rogue.
You’ve read all six thousand pages of it?! You must have quite a bit of time on your hands…
The rest of your rant, Ziggy, is just that – a rant.
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