On Ron Mark, Melissa Lee, and Public Holidays in Korea

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Every so often, I log on to facebook and find myself deluged with an impressive fusillade of comment-tags and blinking chat-windows, almost invariably drawing my attention to some remark – whether innocent, insipid or asinine – which a member of my Caucus has uttered and that’s doing the rounds in the media at present.

Yesterday afternoon was no exception, and I wasn’t exactly thrilled to find myself summonsed across social media to defend, equivocate, or just straight-up explain what Ron Mark may or may not have been thinking when he suggested that National MP Melissa Lee might like to “go back to Korea” if she had serious and ongoing issue with the provision of public holiday entitlements to Kiwi workers here in New Zealand.

For the record, I don’t think it was a great choice of words – and if they’d been blurted out at random, they’d certainly be deserving of at least some of the opprobium presently being heaped in their direction.

But they weren’t. It may have escaped the notice of some of those persons angrily baying for Ron Mark’s blood or resignation over this, but they were part of a sustained and direct response to comments made by Melissa Lee earlier on in the Parliamentary debate about getting rid of a statutory national holiday.

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During Lee’s speech, she drew upon her experiences “as a migrant” to try and highlight how ‘backward’ she felt New Zealand has been perceived as being for protecting the right of Kiwi workers to adequate time off – and thus, by extension, legislating to protect and enshrine certain national holidays.

She made an implicit comparison between the way we do things here, and the way other countries (presumably the one she had been living in prior to her migration to New Zealand) regulate their own workers’ entitlements. In her eyes, New Zealand did not come off particularly favourably.

This comparison, then, was what Ron Mark sought to address – and, by citing a list of Korean national holidays, attempt to turn on its head.

Mark’s point, as set out in the rest of his speech after the singular soundbite which the media’s decided to remove from context and hone in on, was that the country Lee had come to us from does things very much in line with the Kiwi way in this instance. It therefore made little sense for Lee to suggest her experiences “as a migrant” were a legitimate basis upon which to attack New Zealand’s statutory holidays, if the country which she’d emigrated from wasn’t all that different from us in this regard in the first place.

The “go back to Korea” comment thus wasn’t an out-of-the-blue imperative. It was a one-line set-up for the somewhat lengthy explication of counter-point which then ensued – and which I’m entirely unsurprised to note has been blithely ignored by a predatory media in pursuit of an incendiary soundbite.

Now for the record, I wouldn’t have spoken as Ron Mark did. I can see how such a statement could easily be misconstrued and has the real potential to make members of migrant communities who *have* chosen to make New Zealand their home – and work for the betterment thereof – feel unwelcome.

I also disagree with some comments I’ve seen on social media from people suggesting that migrants don’t have a right to complain about conditions here and ought to instead abide by the principle “if you don’t like it here, then go home”. The reasons for this ought to be self-evident – freedom of speech within reason is one of our cornerstone Kiwi values. But to take one example which came up in conversation recently, we’d hardly likely condemn a Scandinavian member of the public or Parliament for getting up and pointing out that New Zealand’s paid parental leave legislation, say, lags behind that of their home country. Instead, if New Zealand First’s voting record on the matter is anything to go by, we’d consider it a strong spur to action to attempt to raise our standards to meet theirs.

But there’s also been something of a flexible approach to National’s sudden outrage on this sort of issue historically – I don’t seem to remember any such outcry nor headline-hoisting going on when National Party MP Maggie Barry hollered at Russell Norman in Parliament that he ought to “go back to Australia”.

What’s the difference between that case and Ron Mark’s speech? The fact that in Mark’s case, it wasn’t a vicious and vituperative interjection, but rather a comment made as part of a broader and reasoned rhetorical counter-thrust backed up with a few facts and evidence?

In any case, while I might disagree with the wording used in the bridging phrase, I can nevertheless easily see why Ron would have cited a list of comparable conditions (in this case, Korean national holidays) designed to demonstrate that Lee’s “as a migrant” assertions about New Zealand’s status relative to other countries were spurious.

The “go back to Korea” line was a poor choice of set-up for this, and there are certainly other ways Ron could have lead into talking about that part of Lee’s speech … but I make no apology for New Zealand First harbouring legitimate concerns as to how this legislation might affect and undermine the rights and protections of the ordinary Kiwi worker.

59 COMMENTS

  1. yr spin notwithstanding..

    ..it was a racist-slur..it was clearly intended as a racist-slur..

    ..and mark has just further confirmed he is a low-rent/generic-dickhead..

    ..oh..!..and maggie barry is too..?

    ..that is some defense-line you are running there..eh..?

    ..and ‘my caucus’..?..really..?…(hubris..?..much..?..)

    • Don Brash is racist. Ron Marks is nothing like him.

      If this is your threshold for racism, you have just describe the entire National and act voting population.

      • “If this is your threshold for racism, you have just describe the entire National and act voting population.”

        Telling immigrants to go back to their own country crosses the threshold of racism of everyone I know. So yes, NZ First’s policies are on par with ACT, and in many ways National.

        Not sure how this is supposed to justify NZ First’s racism…

        • No one has actually established that racism towards Koreans is actually a thing outside media hype?

          Are the people who talk about racism just being whiny bitches because white people don’t rule 90% of the world anymore (this one seems likely) ?

          Or are there actual issues with racial discrimination against Koreans in any part of New Zealand? It seems pretty unlikely to me that that’s the case, but then again, I do live in Australia.

        • I could be wrong but you seem to be more concerned about attaching ism schisms to Ron Marks, than the offence actually taken by Mellisa Lee.

          You’re really making it hard to defend Mrs Lee assertion that having X amount of public holidays is less productive and should be looked at or reformed.

          Hey Phillip. Please inform the crowd of the appropriate response. You’ve got all day to respond so no excuses for including racists undertones.

          • i think lee is one of the worst of the tories..

            ..and her worker-attacking ideas both suck and blow..

            ..but that in no way justifies crap like that from mark..

            ..clear now..?

            • If you are going to attack Lee now when she has no right of reply. Let Ron attack her when the arguments are fresh.

              Think about what you are saying.

      • I entirely disagree. Marks was extremely racist and very targeted about it all. Being subjective about racism, according to one’s political aspiration is being as racist as the perp.

  2. Personally I would prefer Mellssa Lee go back to Korea too. Not because she is Korean but because of her actions in this country.

    On 13 May 2009 Lee told a candidates’ meeting that the SH20 Waterview Connection could divert criminals from South Auckland away from the electorate. Lee apologised the next day, saying “if South Auckland people (find) my comments offensive, I apologise. It wasn’t about them. It was about criminals.” Prime Minister John Key later said the remark was a “stupid statement to make”.[9] Later that day she apologised again saying, “I apologise unreservedly for the comments I made regarding South Auckland… I sincerely regret my remarks.”[10] In the by-election, Lee attracted only 3,542 votes, coming a distant second to Labour’s David Shearer’s 13,260 votes.

    During the By election, allegations were made in May 2009 that Lee’s production company Asia Vision had spent New Zealand on Air money making a promotional video for the National Party ahead of the 2008 election. Lee called the allegations “ridiculous”, saying that all work on the video was done by volunteers. The Green Party referred the video to the Electoral Commission, saying that it should have been declared as an election expense. [11] [12] An investigation conducted by New Zealand on Air later cleared Lee of the charge of misuse of funding.[13]

    Later in 2009 Lee used NZ$100,000 of contingency funding to increase the markup for Asia Downunder in violation of her contract with New Zealand on Air, which she described as “an innocent error”.[14]

    In April 2011 Lee courted controversy when, after she had made a speech supporting the controversially rushed-through copyright law 92A,[15] it emerged that hours earlier she had tweeted “Ok. Shower… Reading … And then bed! listening to a compilation a friend did for me of K Pop. Fab. Thanks Jay.”[16] which appeared to contradict her stance on law 92A.[17]

  3. This is an awful post that minimises and justifies racism.

    How is it that the Daily Blog claims to be ‘the other side of the story’, but then publishes RadioLive-like racist shite?

    This is embarrassing. NZFirst has no place on the Left. Just because they want to nationalise some things, it doesn’t mean they offer a better future. NZ’s UKIP offers us nothing. Wanting to build detention centres for refugees and telling immigrants to go back to their own country is shameful.

    This post is on par with what Ron Mark said. We can do better.

    • What is the difference between Maggie Barry’s go back home to Russel Norman and Ron Mark’s go back home to Melissa Lee?

      Nothing.

      They are both rude and objectionable statements and represent very poor debating technique falling into the logical fallacy of ad hominem.

      So what is the difference between Melissa Lee and Russel Norman?
      Lee is Korean (Asian) and Norman Australian (European).

      If Ron Mark had said go back home to Russel Norman would he have been saying something racist?
      No.

      So the “racism” isn’t in what Mark said but the race of the recipient of the remark.

      I think that making that distinction, a distinction based on race is racist.

      • Exactly so it is National and ACT stirring up the race card, don’t worry folks this is just the start of NACT’s dirty politics on the race card they want the Asian votes.

      • “What is the difference between Maggie Barry’s go back home to Russel Norman and Ron Mark’s go back home to Melissa Lee?
        Nothing.”

        The racialised experiences of white Australians who immigrate are vastly different to Koreans. It’s call colonialism. Racism is about power and it was racist of Curwen to make that link.

        Even if the actions of Ron Mark and Maggie Barry were the same (which they’re not); who would set their racism bar in accordance with Maggie Barry or ACT?

        If Paul Henry said this about a Labour MP then the creator of this blog would call for him to be fired – and rightly so.

        • Even if the actions of Ron Mark and Maggie Barry were the same (which they’re not); who would set their racism bar in accordance with Maggie Barry or ACT?

          “which they’re not” – OK what’s the difference in the action?

          • “what’s the difference in the action?”

            The action isn’t what defines racism. Racism is about power and context, as I said…

            ‘The racialised experiences of white Australians who immigrate are vastly different to Koreans. It’s call colonialism.’

            • So in that context do I conclude that racism is endemic in NZF and Ron Mark and since action isn’t what defines racism that he’s being a racist even as he sleeps?

    • I am not a supporter of NZ First or Ron Mark and while what he said was a bit ignorant it was not racist.

  4. Melissa Lee is a nasty piece of works and her ethnicity has nothing to do with her vicious, spiteful attitude! The Waterview extension/South Auckland residents offensive remarks she made is evidence of this, as is her well known anti worker stance!

    While Ron Mark might have done himself more justice if he had worded his comments somewhat differently, I don’t see where his remarks were directly aimed at making a racist point.

    Because of my unusual place of birth, when doing official business, which requires my full ID details, I have been questioned by government agencies in recent times about the reason I came to NZ! Have even had a security check done on me, when I renewed my driver’s licence six years ago, which I have held for most of my adult life! It can be a nightmare at times, trying to justify my existence!

    Despite being in NZ for over 60 years, arriving as a child with my parents and being a NZ citizen, holding a valid NZ passport, I am nevertheless considered a “suspicious character” by most government agencies, simply by reason of my place of birth!

    So if Melissa Lee and her supporters considers she is a victim of racism, bigotry, or whatever, she (and they) should consider some of her government’s policies, which can at times be discriminatory, in some instances the people concerned being in no position to put up a challenge!

  5. In the right context in the war of words between R M and M L
    I believe Ron has spoken what a lot of Maori would have said if they had been there, I heard it from all nationalities towards each other over the years, but now people like M L can just spew forth utter rubbish and then wait for the offended and outraged to give their 5 cents worth
    it’s not really worth the oxygen needed.
    It’s just another way of saying “yeah Well you don’t know what you are talking about Melissa, and if it is so great back home why don’t you go back’

  6. Actually we should praise Ms Lee for her crusade against restricted operating hours for people to shop. My local major supermarkets here in Korea are open from 10am till 12pm daily. Its all so convenient except the damn government, by edict, requires them to close twice a month. In my neigbourhood this happens on the 2nd and 4th Wednesdays of the month. Plus they close for major festivals like Buddha’s Birthday, Christmas, the Lunar New Year, and the Harvest Moon Festival. According to Ms Lee New Zealand Supermarkets should be closed for almost 1 month of a year! A thing to celebrated I say.

  7. I reckon Ron Mark shot from the hip and told it like it is.

    Racism … Phffffff!!!!

    Yes this Melissa Lee does seem to be a bit of a busybody , doesn’t she?… a malcontent perhaps? … lest see…the blatantly racist talk about south Aucklanders commuting in to commit crimes…

    And then the whine about the way things operate here…. masking the fact that she really is being an advocate for the business community’s drive to obliterate conditions for workers and in this case public holidays.

    There is no masking what her real motive and audience is geared towards – yet more dis-empowerment of the worker and larger profit margins for the corporate’s.

    Thank goodness for Ron Mark being in parliament. We’ve all had enough of this walking on eggs and mealy mouthed beating around the bush. What he said was the blunt and honest truth and if your so thin skinned you cant even take those mild words it begs the question should you even be in parliament?

    And the fact of the matter remains – if your a migrant or an immigrant and you don’t like it in this country – your free to leave .

    No ones denying your freedom to choose or barring your way.

    But just don’t come around here saying how awful the place is while having an ulterior motive designed for you and your rich mates to profit off the further erosion of workers wages and conditions.

    Well done and well spoken , Mr Ron Mark.

    Well done indeed.

  8. Looks like National are getting in early labelling NZF a racist party, they don’t want Winston getting any of the Asian vote despite him being part Taiwanese.

  9. Oh …and a few other pertinent points we should all remember…

    Back in the 1980’s and 1990’s we were spoon fed a steady mantra of being ‘tolerant ‘ , of accepting a ‘ multicutural nz ‘…that we were to accept an unregulated and out of control immigration policy – usually with the noble cliche that immigration would be good for us…

    Usually followed that immigrants would bring business and expertise we sorely needed…

    REALLY ???!!!!

    REALLY ???!!!

    So lets just take a jolly good look at the sort of ilk who promoted that out of control , unregulated situation…we don’t have to look far – the then Business Roundtable and their neo liberal politician stooges for a start…

    So…lets look at their justifications , shall we?

    1) Immigration is good for our economy .

    Really ???? – if unfettered immigration policy is so good for our economy why is this economy faltering and why are there so may poor and low paid workers in this country now?

    2) Immigration will bring sorely needed ‘ expertise’ into this country .

    Is that so …well then if that’s the case why couldn’t we provide it ourselves – as we did before the neo liberals got a grip on the country – could it be that those with the smarts saw what a banana republic the neo liberals were turning this country into and have long left these shores for places like England , the USA etc?

    3) We need to be tolerant.

    This is a laugh . So ….

    they’re trying to tell us that we are to accept all the surreptitious implications stated that somehow we are deficient , we need rescuing , we need superior educated ‘expertise ‘, we lack the smarts to ‘do it ourselves’ …that somehow the way we do things here needs ‘ improving ‘….

    Then why do immigrants flock to this country then , eh?

    If their country’s are so crash hot – why do they come here?

    Tolerant ?…then answer this …why are WE the ones who have got to do all the tolerating ? And furthermore – where is the onus on these immigrants to be’ tolerant ‘ of their new country ?…we don’t hear a lot about that one , do we…

    50% of Aucklander’s now are from Asia… and yet we are a south pacific nation with legal and historic obligations to the Pacific Islands – not ASIA !!!

    So in conclusion….

    What we have is a situation whereby immigration HAS NOT BEEN particularly beneficial to this country – in fact ,- it has been to a large extent counterproductive.

    1) the Auckland housing crisis… certain among these advocates have done very nicely with immigration and the burgeoning and overheated property market – all the while keeping quiet about just who was driving up prices out of the reach of mainly young New Zealanders.

    We still haven’t got a Foreign Buyer/Speculators Register’s – despite the fact we now know all too well who have been driving up the prices.

    2) Interesting about ‘ immigration being good for the economy ‘… we now have topped 6% unemployment.

    So much for that one.

    And while were at it – people who will do anything to gain citizenship will work zero hour contracts and for minimum wages AND – either through ignorance or not wishing to rock the boat – wont be seen supporting unions – further undermining NZ workers wages and conditions.

    Its called cheap labour, folks.

    3) Also we have people who have done very well out of privatization of education – very well indeed with all these foreign students – however the privatization of education has had a negative effect on New Zealanders – no wonder we now have to import overseas ‘expertise ‘.

    This whole thing has been driven by the big business community lobbying parliament for their own huge profit margins – and certainly not for any altruistic or humanitarian values.

    I just wish they would try to be honest instead of manipulating public thought through the use of their media and our elected politicians.

    I personally know one guy who was retired , drew a military pension from India , whilst working here and drawing the benefit.

    How does that sit with you all?

    Another one was here working while his wife was completing her PHD while the guys father was operating his business in the Punjab.

    You think these people are stupid or hard up?

    Hardly.

    This all said – on the matter of war refugee’s in particular… I’m all for a bigger quota …these folk have been to hell and back and fairs fair – they need a break. But they are a totally different group to this opportunist and often well heeled other lot who often simply see this country as an opportunity to take advantage of.

    And BTW – the two individuals mentioned above – I was very interested in their country’s and had them essentially explain their nations history , politics, religions, attitudes , values…

    And I thoroughly enjoyed their company . They were good people.

    But personality and character are two different things entirely.

    And I don’t think we have any obligation whatsoever to be ‘ tolerant ‘ of being shafted.

    And certainly not because some opportunist big business elite in this country want to further erode our wages and working conditions with the import of ‘ cheap labour’.

    • have you thought of becoming a speech-writer for ukip..?

      ..(or nz first..?..)

      ..and of course a couple of anecdotals will always swing the waverers/make the case..eh..?

      • Yes, very UKIP.

        Shame people blame immigration when our population and birth rate are not the problem.

        Here’s an idea – maybe our economic policies of the past 30+ years have caused our problems?

        Notice how all of a sudden nobody is referencing Corbyn on this thread? Corbyn is very specific on the impact of immigration – he says immigration isn’t a problem: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/corbyn-says-immigration-isnt-a-problem-a6673231.html

        I wonder what Bomber thinks of all this UKIP shite on his blog…

        • Nah mate – its called looking after our own backyard first and getting that sorted out before we assume we have the land or economic clout to go off pretending were some sort of western frontier that never ends.

          And why is it so offensive to that people want some sort of brake on rampant immigration?

          Is being nationalist a dirty word to you?

          Perhaps you should run along now and join the neo liberal globalists.

          Because that’s what people like you are sounding like.

          To which we’ve had 31 years of globalistic govt’s in this country – and you want even more of the same?

          How many kids have you got?

          And how many can get into their first homes as of today buddy?

          Or is that lil ole portfolio you got just settin you up just fine and dandy- like?

          • “Is being nationalist a dirty word to you?
            Perhaps you should run along now and join the neo liberal globalists.”

            Why the binary of a neolib or a nationalist? I’m neither. And yes, if you mean nationalistic – then I think it’s a dirty world.

            “To which we’ve had 31 years of globalistic govt’s in this country”

            We’ve had neoliberalism. Globalisation is different.

            “Or is that lil ole portfolio you got just settin you up just fine and dandy- like?”

            Sorry, I don’t own a home. I don’t want to own a home. I’m from what they call Generation Rent. But I won’t go blaming foreigners for neoliberalism – sounds UKIP-ish. You’ll end up with the same problem; property owned by a few. Try to think about economics instead of which piece of dirt people were born on.

          • how the fuck can you apportion blame for the outcomes from 30 yrs of neoliberal-shite..on immigrants..?

            (blinkered-view..?..much..?..)

            and yes..’nationalist’ can be a ‘dirty word’..

            ..when it is used for/to justify crap like this…

            (and it wasn’t just asians/koreans mark targeted..he also had multiple sneers against india/indiam immigrants..

            ..(deliberate mis-pronounciations and all..)

            ..he really is a shabby little man..

            ..with the intellect/debating-skills of a schoolyard-bully..

        • Fatty: “maybe our economic policies of the past 30+ years have caused our problems?’

          That’s round about how long we’ve had largely unregulated immigration: that policy change was an extension of Rogernomics. You may be too young to recall how the Business Round Table – among other such luminaries – urged on all of us the low wage economy as a solution to low productivity here. Greatly-increased immigration was part of that plan. Now remind me: what do we have now? That’s right: the low wage economy. But still low productivity….

          • Sorry Merrial, I still refuse to blame people born outside of NZ for the problems of our socio-economic system.
            Birthrates in NZ declined rapidly as social democracy finished.
            We need immigrants.
            We don’t need racism.
            We need new economic policies.
            We need Labour to stop blaming immigrants. Labour needs to take a leaf out of Corbyn’s book and focus on economic ideology rather than blaming immigration. Leave the immigrant bashing to NZ First and UKIP.

            My age has nothing to do with actually researching and analyzing our socio-economic history. Go look at our immigration rates post WWII and then talk to me about the impact of immigration. Maybe the reason why my generation has no respect for Labour is because we read history?

      • Here’s a song for you mate ….

        Pay attention to the type of hype your buying into…

        We’re only making plans for Nigel
        We only want what’s best for him
        We’re only making plans for Nigel
        Nigel just needs this helping hand
        And if young Nigel says he’s happy
        He must be happy
        He must be happy in his work
        We’re only making plans for Nigel
        He has his future in a British steel
        We’re only making plans for Nigel
        Nigel’s whole future is as good as sealed
        And if young Nigel says he’s happy
        He must be happy
        He must be happy in his work
        Nigel is not outspoken
        But he likes to speak
        And loves to be spoken to
        Nigel is happy in his work
        We’re only making plans for Nigel

  10. I agree with the writer and with Ron Mark. The truth of the matter is that NZ is our home and if someone visits and doesn’t like the way we do things, then they need to accept our culture or go live somewhere else that operates to their satisfaction. I especially feel this to be the case with people whose religion requires them to be always masked in public. This is NOT part of our much more open culture and those people need to accept being un-masked is how we are, or GO and LIVE WHERE THAT SORT OF BEHAVIOR IS THE NORM. That’s not to judge it wrong but it is an example of such a different culture and one which essentially exists in conflict with ours. Would the NZ public find it acceptable if immigrants came from a culture where they wore NO clothes? ‘Go back where you came from’ would be a much more common demand. ‘When in Rome …..”

      • Inverse prejudice because it happens to be western , and part of a power structure you hate?

        Maybe you’d be more happier with Sharia law , which even today … stones prostitutes , adulterers and cutting off of the hands of thieves with a sword…

        Or if that doesn’t tickle your fancy…try a few public executions in the street with the execution sword like they do in Saudi Arabia…

        Be careful how you phrase whats racist and whats extreme and whats just not acceptable in this country… as any of the above just isn’t acceptable within these borders.

        And thank goodness for that as well.

          • Jeez Phil your rampant very angry sounding scribbling all over other peoples views is starting to sound like you have a personal vendetta against Ronny boy and wrapping it up in sarcastic anger makes me just scoot on pass your views all except this one, because dear boy You are starting to sound a little hysterical.

            As a Maori woman I have personally been told to go home, haha yea when they figure out where that home is, Taiwan maybe Peru or could be the South seas.

            At the moment I live in KeriKeri the white capital of the Far North and every time I go to town which isn’t a lot and isn’t far I am greeted with hate looks from recent arrivals from all over the world, some English refugees can’t stop there top lip from curling when they serve me in a shop, obviously the Channel parfum gets up there nose.
            I have come across SA people in high places of authority have a last say over my world, and that sucks.
            Being a Maori woman puts me at the bottom of the ladder no matter how many letters I have after my name, in their world but never mine.
            So looking at all that was said to Melissa Lee and what she said I am thankful that Ron Mark told her just what he thought at that time.

            and Melissa if you don’t like what is going on here and your home land does it better then see ya later, just don’t come here and try to change our way of life into what you perceive to be better … according to your homeland, cause if it was that great wouldn’t you be there instead of here.
            Oh and as an after thought Phil what tribe do you belong to besides Ngati Pakeha that make you understand te ism so well ….

            • 1)..re ron mark..yes..you are correct..i seriously dislike almost everything i have heard ‘ronny-boy’ say/do..

              ..in both his times in parliament..and in between..

              ..i think him a fool..

              2)..re kerikeri..i have spent quite a bit of time in the north..from holidaying there as a child..and in recent times..it is my favoured part of the country..

              ..but kerikeri i avoid like the plague..full of euro-trash/petit-bourgoisie as it is..

              ..and i can fully understand how maori would feel uncomfortable/unwelcome there..it is possibly the most potent example of the east/west economic/racial divide so prevalent in northland..isn’t it..?

              ..why the fuck do you choose to live there..?

              ..and as for yr ‘whadareya?’-question..

              ..i am from scots/irish/welsh working-class background..

              ..on one side here for two generations..on the other five generations..

              ..so i feel totally qualified to feel this is my home..and to opine however i like/choose..

              (without being told to ‘go back to where i came from’ from unthinking-idiots like ‘ronny-boy’…eh..?..)

              • thanks Phil for your reply
                I thought your perception of Ron Mark was marked by some previous and ongoing saga…
                but oh no it’s just your FOOL indicator was running far too hot an salty
                sadly IMHO a little askew

                ..why the fuck do you choose to live there..?
                Family circumstance other wise I would be free as a bird to fly home,
                out of this (what you said) place.

                ..and as for yr ‘whadareya?’-question..
                just wondering
                Ronny boy didn’t tell You to go home
                like you say this is your home
                imo you are a much needed thorn
                in the side of them that need a thorn

                I am sure melissa lee can be offended and outraged all by her little ole self
                with out every one else going barking mad on her behalf,
                esp by people that don’t even like her!

                I mean Phil could you not have picked a better kaupapa to run with
                to have a poke at Ronny boy

                than a lippy ex Korean and now New Zealand citizen
                National MP
                EX NZ Herald Sunday News Listener journalist
                who voted against medicinal mariwana and same sex marriage
                calling people who come from South Auckland criminals ffs
                suspected of using $100k from NZ on Air to increase the mark up on her TV series Asia Downunder … but said she “oh sorry it was an error!”
                suspected of using NZ on Air money of making a promotional video for the National Party and don’t get me started on copyright law 92A…….
                for a MA Hon 1st class Communications Studies recipient…. thanks wiki
                she sure gets it wrong *alot/some/most of the time.
                *take ya pick

                Have a glorious day
                te sun is shinning
                what more can we ask for.

            • I can confirm a lot of what you say, as I meet many of the sort of people you refer to. With me being Pakeha I guess some think they can be a bit more open with their views. New SA immigrants come here surprised to find there is not a culture of “help” for them around the house. I don’t think I need to be a rocket scientist to envisage the person who would have been the “help” back in SA, and I further don’t think I have to be one to imagine who they think might be the “help” here. Oh and what they might have to pay them.

    • That’s right. Things should never change. It should be exactly the way you found it. When i came here, there was no gay marriage, treaty of waitangi; there were glue sniffing street kids, people embarrassed of their Maori heritage. What happened?

      If you weren’ t born here, you should have no say.

      Don’t know why Australia let Gillard and Abbott become PM, being immigrants and all.

      Keep democracy restricted to those i agree with.

  11. It’ s clear many here have racist sympathies. It’s the left wing which tolerate this kind of stuff, shame. Note the overly ornate explanations of their prejudices. Any government with WinstonFirst will be an ugly one. Reactionaries, mixture of poorly-educated economically disaffected working class who are hostile to outsiders.
    The choice for the next election is becoming more clear. It’s not just economic policies but also a choice of values. Those who appeal to better angels in our heart versus who appeal to our darker impluses.

      • There are many parties to choose from. You forget it is MMP not FFP. Most definitely, Winstonfirst works for the dark side.
        If you are from any side of politics and invite Winstonfirst to your government, you deserve what you get. Every government with him is kicked out within a term and so is Winston. He only comes back because people forget how incompetent he is, and the is always a market for the dark-side.

    • Reactionaries, poorly educated… yes the generalizations and bigoted assumptions flow when the dollar is threatened…

      Just what do you get out of this unregulated situation , buddy?

  12. Gawd, this thread has unearthed some deep seated racism in the bowels of the centre-Left.

    Funny how people tell me NZ First offer economically Left policy…they seem to do pretty good at getting people to ignore economics and blame immigration.

    • Really ???

      Really ???

      – I thought it more in terms of curbing rampant and unfettered immigration policy’s that benefits only the rich – the 1%.

      And that’s political – not personal.

      Seems you guys want to cry racist at every turn that smacks more of your emotionalism than rational thought.

      Ill give you a responsible immigration policy – back in the 1950’s and 1960’s we had many people come here that were given the choice to settle in the rural and urban centers – after 2 years or so they were free to settle where they wanted – AFTER they became citizens.

      Which avoided the ‘ AUCKLAND DUMP ‘ that we have now. And invigorated the provincial areas instead of creating an alienated and non assimilation situation which we have today in one geographical place .

      And what really is your problem with having policy’s to avoid rampant and unbridled immigration?

      Just who are you really speaking for here?

      The left?

      Or are you one of that number who benefits financially by this out of control situation?

      How many houses do you have in your little portfolio, mate?

      • “Just who are you really speaking for here?
        The left?”

        Yes, I’m a libertarian-socialist or a commie. Going back to a nationalistic social democracy ain’t going to work. Good luck with your fight against globalisation. If you think you can re-create a 1950s NZ after neoliberalism you’re delusional.

        “How many houses do you have in your little portfolio, mate?”

        Sorry, I don’t own a house. I’ll be renting for life.
        I want a soci-economic system that ensures (at least) the basics. And if we could stop telling Asians to go back to their own country, that’d be nice too.

    • What it has unearthed is some knee-jerk reactions combined with social proof imprinting from messages delivered by the MSM and NAct (+ Maori, Greens).
      The UKIP, racism blah blah is just extrapolation of a number of biases coupled with righteous sanctimony.
      Analyse this objectively – what actually happened and what got added on top?

      • “Analyse this objectively – what actually happened and what got added on top?”

        Capitalism and then neoliberalism.

        I’m comfortable with the NZ First equals UKIP. Their policies and strategy are too similar to think otherwise

  13. I reckon Lee’s own comment about the Waterview tunnel was far, far more racist than Mark’s to her. His comment was daft, but truly I cannot perceive it as being especially racist.
    I may have been inclined to think a bit differently if Russel Norman hadn’t been told much the same, and Melissa Lee had done clearly demonstrated what I am pretty certain was her own racism, as I think we all know who she was thinking with the Waterview comment.
    She comes across as imperious and entitled, similar to Hekia Parata and more especially, Judith Collins. I won’t included Paula Bennett in that as to me, she is just plain condescending.

  14. I remember back to the day when most immigrants were Brits. Many winging poms would moan about how things were better in Blighty and we would tell them, if you didn’t like it, then go back there. Whatever happened to winging poms?

    Anyway, I don’t recall being called a racist back then.

    Having since lived in the UK, what strikes me on returning is how precious kiwis are about race issues. So much so that they can’t even talk about it, for fear of being accused of being racist (we can see an example of this in these comments – they are right to be fearful).

    We will never be able to address dicrimination if we cannot even have a reasoned discuss about it. The media, however, would rather see a scrap! FIGHT!! – Good for ratings.

  15. Racisim is ok. Its my country and I’ll say what i like. I lived through a racist school system, I encountered a racist police force, I see racisim every day at work, i see subliminal racisim in every race, class and even on T.V.
    So with all that racisim around me I know I am a bigger person for not letting it stand in the way of what I need.
    P.S. if you dont like what we do in NZ, GO HOME!!.

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