The Twitterati has had less impact on the Red Peak issue than they will acknowledge. National used the opportunity to work with the Greens to stick it to Labour after the Greens broke ranks to get the flag onto the ballot.
Gen X and Y are design freaks so the opportunity to have a rave about aesthetics pretended to create meaning in an otherwise dull flag debate. This is the generations of interior and exterior font design so the Greens captured that zeitgeist and rode it home with the help of National.
The great masses who are not hipsters and buy their clothing from the Warehouse don’t care about this flag issue, they’re struggling to pay for the electricity bills this month.
Watching the Greens shank Labour to work with National is a sight to behold…
In return for the Government’s support, the Green Party agreed to vote against any bid by the Labour Party to include a yes/no vote on changing the flag in the first referendum – a critical factor in persuading the Government to adopt the bill.
…the stitch up smells rotten.
I just wish the bloody thing was done so we could get back to the actual issues like the pending signing off of the TPPA. The flag could be a Karen Walker knitted quilt depicting glitter beards with dyed armpit hair and it won’t mean a damned thing if US corporations get to own it.
What a flag represents is far more important than it’s design.
This is exactly how I feel. Every day under this UK/US/Saudi a$$-kissing government, our reputation for fairness, integrity, and lack of corruption takes another dive.
So you think that those of us who buy in more up-market shops and think their power bill is loose change DO care about the flag issue?
Really? 😉
Absolutely agree with Martyn.
But what really disturbs me here, is the fact the Greens have done a deal with NatzKEY over the Red Peak flag issue!
Is this going to be a feature of Shaw’s leadership, doing deals with NatzKEY from now on, going against everything Labour and NZ First put forward? If it is, then I will be steering well clear of NZ Greens in the future, after giving almost thirty years support!
My old suspicious, cynical mind is going into overdrive at the moment after this. I’m beginning to wonder if Shaw is a NatzKEY stooge, to keep FJK and his US string pullers screwing NZ!
The Greens were set up as stooges from the start.
I agree Mary_A. I have voted Green since 1987. I won’t be voting for them again!
Me thinks, considering the party only formed in 1990, that you protest slightly too much.
“I’m beginning to wonder if Shaw is a NatzKEY stooge, to keep FJK and his US string pullers screwing NZ!”
I’ve met Shaw a few times and he is as staunch as. However, he may be trying to make tactical decisions that backfire. However, Gareth Hughes was also a strong supporter of getting Red Peak in and I don’t think anyone can doubt his credibility.
It may have been a tactical blunder but Labour, for instance, has been making tactical blunders a plenty, as have the other political parties. It is interesting how many people are now claiming they are going to withdraw their vote from the Greens because they are not picture perfect in their strategic decision-making. People hold the Greens to a standard that no other party comes close to maintaining but the fact remains that most of them DON’T actually give them their vote. Based on their policy platform at the last election the Greens should have been getting MOST of the progressive vote. So the fact that Shaw might be trying to do something different (after being voted in by over half of Green Party members who felt something fresh was needed) shouldn’t come as a surprise. If it fails, Shaw probably won’t survive the next leadership challenge which will come after the election.
>> If it fails, Shaw probably won’t survive the next leadership challenge which will come after the election. <<
This is not the way leadership works in the Greens. Unlike their FPP-era counterparts in Labour and National, in which a single leader rules with an iron fist once elected, the Greens are actually a fully democratic organisation. The Co-Leader roles are not power positions, but heavy responsibilities, which significantly limit what the MPs holding them can do and say in public.
A member who willing to hold the position, and wins the confidence of the membership, is given the support to grow in their competence over many electoral terms. This allows them to take a more long term view of what's good for the party, the country, and the world, rather than constantly looking over their shoulder for an opposing faction with knives drawn. If Labour and NZ First (and for that matter Mana and the Māori Party) want to survive the coming decades, they could do worse than learn from the way the Greens handle their leadership positions.
“People hold the Greens to a standard that no other party comes close to maintaining.”
Can’t agree with that. Policy platforms alone aren’t enough. The competence to implement must be present. I was looking for every reason to vote Green, but when questioning Green party members on core policy, some are evasive, others downright nasty and insulting, while another didn’t have a clue what the policy even was. I and 1 or 2 others who were questioning a Ms Davidson on social media received an unprovoked and hostile response followed by blocking and subsequent bragging on how a “group of males” had been dealt to. I haven’t encountered such a shallow and incompetent group of politicians in any other party, including some minor ones. Neither they nor Labour have anything of value to offer . . . obviously many knew this prior to the election, hence the large no-vote. Once again we hold our breath while casting a vote for no other reason but to get rid of the encumbent. It’s depressing.
So they added a flag even less people cared about than the old choices (except the koru one).
http://umr.co.nz/sites/umr/files/umr_flag_referendum_-_red_peak_-_aug_2015.pdf
So 0.7% want Red Peak as first choice and 2.6% have it in their top 4. I have no idea what the Red Peak movement (and now The Greens) are smoking but almost no one wants fucking Red Peak and it has near zero chance of winning unless it’s seen as a protest vote (which will massively backfire if we send any message whatsoever that we support this farcical referendum). This is clear case of a vocal minority with voices so shrill it looks like everyone else also gives a shit when they don’t. If only these folks had the same enthusiasm for doing stuff that actually matters to NZers.
sure glad I’m not a green anymore. Shaw Sells Out.
You are right that “what a flag represents” is important. The Union Jack on the present flag represents New Zealand’s British colonial legacy, which is why it should be changed. Whatever the flaws in the process we have the opportunity to take the Union Jack out of the flag, so why not take it. And why not improve the process a bit, as the Greens have done.
I’m sorry Keith your weak defence of this shows this is a very poor and naive decision – what’s next – helping National find a bit better process for not fining Serco?
Key & National have made the flag change process entirely about politics and it has been political from the start when they passed the original bill 63-56. The have rightly been taking a hammering over the process and the Green Bill now gives them a political out. National could have included Red Peak anytime they wanted by changing the legislation with their own government majority.
This will not be seen or portrayed as the Greens being reasonable or principled but as a win for National & Key. Greens should have shown solidarity with the other opposition parties – they’ve shafted their potential coalition partners and given NZ First even more ammo to distrust a Lab-Green coalition. Since we first got to choose to vote for the Greens I have never been as disappointed in a Green Party decision as I am in this.
To paraphrase Austen – Badly done Greens, badly done.
>> The Union Jack on the present flag represents New Zealand’s British colonial legacy, which is why it should be changed. <<
I disagree Keith. This is exactly why it should not be changed (for now). When we actually change the way this country works, so it's no longer run from the City of London (via Wall St), and no longer has the Queen of England as head of state, and is no longer structurally racist against its indigenous people, then, and only then, will it be time to change the flag. Until then, the Union Jack should continue to blight our country's official symbolism, as a reminder of all the important political work left to be done.
I now feel vindicated for quitting the greens and joining Mana.
@ Ray Ince – ditto.
If Shaw is going to prostitute the Greens, doing deals with NatzKEY, helping FJK save face every time he stuffs up, then I will be giving Mana my allegiance.
By the way where is Metiria Turei. Haven’t seen her in Parliament for a while now. Being a woman of strong principle, she could be distancing herself from her traitorous co leader Shaw. If she is, who can blame her after his latest foray into selling NZ Greens out?
I think that this was more of an opportunistic thing by Key and National rather than a well thought out cunning plan. Things were starting to go wrong for the great Key publicity machine and he needed a quick fix solution. The Greens offered him one, but I don’t think they did it with that intent, they were just trying to get some sense into the whole thing and they thought they had come up with a sensible compromise. They probably didn’t care whether Key used it for another episode in his endless petty political point scoring games against Labour because they don’t really feel they owe Labour anything anyway (and vice versa).
Up until today I had a slight preference for Red Peak, but now Shon Key has come out in support of it I have definitely changed my mind.
Any chance to put the boot into the Greens eh Bomber? I’ve got some concerns about the recent actions of the Greens too, eg not getting behind Gareth to oppose the Harmful Digital Censorship Act. But if you’re going to take the line that the flag debate is a red herring (which I agree with) why does it matter what the Greens say or do about it?
“The great masses who are not hipsters and buy their clothing from the Warehouse don’t care about this flag issue”
Actually people who are struggling to pay their power bills probably buy their clothes from op shops and second-hand shops. The Sweatshophouse is expensive by comparison. The fact you don’t know that makes it obvious that you are one of the very boutique browsing hipsters you are looking down your nose at.
Workers have a whole range of views on the flag debate, from “don’t care” to “keep the flag” to “change the flag to x or y”. Putting your words in the mouths of the actual working class in a lame attempt to give them extra credibility is patronizing and offensive.
“they’re struggling to pay for the electricity bills this month.”
Yeah, the Greens have never done anything about this. Except for consistently advocate for renewable energy sources, energy efficiency, supporting Labour on the public power buyer policy, solar hot water and home insulation subsidies etc etc. Yes, they had to hold their nose and work with National to get those insulation subsidies, but as a consequence a measurable number of people are struggling less with their power bills. Why don’t you tell those people the Greens should have valued ideological purity over real world results?
Very poor indeed from the Greens, collaborating with National. I think they will lose support over this.
Not impressed with Red Peak. The other four are dire. This is a real shambles……..
A change of flag should surely be done if and when NZ becomes a republic or when there is a ground swell of people who initiate it.
Flag panel hopeless. Should have had much more consultation with designers. As for Julie Christie being on the panel….Its laughable
Expect to see more of it Anker.
I suspect the Greens are slowly growing up. They’re realising Labour is a dying party and so if they want any of their policies ever implementing, they will have to do a deal with National.
Have you been hiding under a bridge for the last seven years AndrewO? The Greens have done deals with National before, it isn’t new. How do you think the great home insulation subsidy package came into being?
If you want a realistic chance of getting your policies implemented then it makes more sense to approach the governing party rather than the opposition parties, don’t you think?
Nowhere in this blog or the comments beneath it does anyone recognise that 50,000 people signed a petition asking for Red Peak to be included and a lot of these would be people who don’t support this government.
What is it with your continual Green bashing? They’re not selling out their core values. Stop being being so whingy.
Maybe read this… http://thestandard.org.nz/green-politics/
Any party that agrees with National is not a left wing party, the Arrogance of the Greens and their supporters will be the demise and destruction of the party
I am sort of on side with the Greens on this – I think saw a gap in the whole silly thing and pushed the Red Peak flag into the gap, much as one would expect John Cleese to. I clicked the button to support the include Red Peak for much the same reason. Key has already spent the $26m on advance orders at Post Shop and some printers. So what the hell? We will just have to put up with Key popping up around the country making idiot statements and speeches about the flag for another six months and he will be off on a Panda mission or buying NZ a golf course in California or something. One day Kiwis will get bored with the buffoon and vote some other hapless party in instead. The 100 billion mortgage will be up another 50 billion, its just play money isn’t it. Isn’t It?
Fuck the Greens, any party that gets cozy with National needs to be given the boot by the left
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