I don’t watch The Nation now we all know that TV3 Management have such a stranglehold on what they will allow to become current affairs and won’t allow to become current affairs based on how embracing it may be for their friend John Key, but their twitter feed was alight over the weekend with this old chestnut…
…I love how the Right & their media puppets ask ‘will throwing money at child poverty fix it’.
They never said that about bailing their bank mates out. We couldn’t sign the cheque fast enough to prevent South Canterbury Finance with its close connections to many powerful National Party members from falling over, yet when it comes to poor children, suddenly it’s ‘can we afford it’?
It’s incredible isn’t it? We can borrow billions in tax cuts for the richest, but can’t spend the money to stop children in state care being sexually abused and beaten. We can sell 49% of some of our best performing energy companies to those same rich NZers who benefitted from tax cuts (not to mention the taxpayer subsidy to hold onto the shares), but can’t use the $871million in lost revenue from those assets to stop children in state care being sexually abused and beaten.
We can spend $26million on a vanity project from the Prime Minister to change our flag but we can’t spend that money to stop children in state care being sexually abused and beaten.
Don’t dare tell me we don’t have the money, we have the bloody money, it’s our priorities and values that are bankrupt. The simple fact is this Government and its voters don’t give a toss about children in poverty, especially if those children are brown because as far as they are concerned, you choose to be a kid in poverty.
If it were white middle class kids getting abused in state care there would be outrage, when it’s poor brown kids we shrug and claim there’s no money.
Yes Now Martyn, yet another wind down of a social agency CYFs for sale?
I am convinced this is another of the line-up of next agencies to become privatised who are supposed to deal with youth abuse.
When NatZ have run down and made the service less effective they will next come up with a solution, sell it to Rupert Soames of Serco or some one else of their mates.
“If it were white middle class kids getting abused in state care there would be outrage, when it’s poor brown kids we shrug and claim there’s no money.”
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/rupert-soames-stamps-authority-in-serco-shakeup-9546084.html
This, of course, will be the new flag’s legacy Martyn.
Whichever of the new designs gets chosen, it will forever be associated with National’s “we don’t give a fuck” policy.
The flag’s representation will only be assured if the current flag remains. It has a long and honourable history and has yet to be majorly sullied by the crap that is our current government.
Jeez, aren’t you all ashamed and embarrassed that this is who represents us? I know I fucking am…
I measure a society by how it cares for its young, its sick and its elderly.
Big fat fail there I’m afraid…
1000% JS Bark well said I am so ashamed.
Labour NZ First must come out and state that they will revert back to the existing flag upon becoming Government and that will scare the bloody criminal NatZ then eh?
Actually throwing money at bailing banks out did fix it and prevented things getting even worse.
“Don’t dare tell me we don’t have the money, we have the bloody money, it’s our priorities and values that are bankrupt. The simple fact is this Government and its voters don’t give a toss about children in poverty, especially if those children are brown because as far as they are concerned, you choose to be a kid in poverty.”
See my posts re National and utilitarianism. Yes, we do have the money and there’s no excuse why we shouldn’t be spending it on reducing child abuse – things like better monitoring, better training, etc.
It is long past payback time for those banks which were bailed out by governments worldwide in 2008, and have continued to thumb their noses at taxpayers ever since. Instead of them being made to pay the money back, it has been the poor and underprivileged who have been made to suffer ever since through austerity measures.
When the next massive crash happens and it all turns out to be an illusion, I expect you to eat your words.
$1.0 Billion Bail Out for South Canterbury Finance, BNZ to name a couple.
Reinstating knighthoods then wanting to change the flag whats actually going on?
TPP Agreement when we are in a non negotiable position, I think Key thinks we are all stupid?
Well Bomber you are more the welcome to chuck your own money at children in poverty, please don’t be one of those people that just demands that the government take the money off someone else.
I just love it how people talk about how much they care about the less well off and all they do is vote for a government to tax someone else, that shows laziness.
You probably think that New Zealanders are selfish but they are not, wanting to hold onto the fruits of your labor is not selfish, what is selfish is those that expect others to foot the bill, like fathers that don’t pay child support.
Typical ACT nonsense.
Have you paid for your education at primary and secondary school, Stephen?
Did you pay for the telecommunications infrastructure that you used to post your comment?
If you’ve stayed at a hospital or had a free operation, did you pay for it?
Funny how rightwingers like you take the free (taxpayer funded) services, but squeal at the thought of paying your share taxes to help others.
The “fruits of your labour” was built on the efforts and contributions of past taxpayers.
Do you bit. Pay your share. And stop fucking whinging like a spoilt teenager.
Well I didn’t pay for my primary and secondary schooling because I was a child at the time Frank so how could I? Duh, I guess you were the dunce at your school.
I have paid for my hospital visits Frank both private with my own money and public as I pay a lot of tax.
I do pay more than my fair share of taxes, you see Frank if everyone was to pay their fair share we would have a flat tax rate or a simple levy, To say otherwise proves that you can’t understand basic maths involving percentages which shows to me why you are a left winger.
We have a progressive tax rate in this country whereby the more you earn the more tax you pay in both percentage term and amount. That is paying more than your fair share, how about you as a left winger actually contribute to society instead of bludging and riding off the back of everyone else?
I support a flat tax as well but this thread isn’t about that. It’s about spending money to stop child abuse. And apart from the moral argument that we should protect the most vulnerable there’s also the practical argument. So even if you’re being cold-hearted about it money spent now preventing some kid from being abused means far less money being spent down track when the kid is older and needing therapy or in jail because he acted out etc.
Kevin – nailed it.
Agreed. I don’t believe that Stephen could even conceive of the idea that he is breathing other people’s oxygen, and that until he develops some understanding of his own social responsibilities (instead of finding someone possibly less responsible that himself to point the finger at – oh, those terrible fathers that don’t pay child support!) well, I see Stephen as very much like those fathers, and I think he is irresponsibly wasting other people’s oxygen.
yes I agree that Stephen (Franks?) is a pathetic individual chasing ghosts instead of offering real solutions to the age old issue of the effects of greed.
Ooh I know, I know!
Send the bill to Stephen!
He’d like that…
No, we’ll chuck your money at the problem Steven, because it is attitudes like yours that have exacerbated this problem in the first place so you can start paying for it now.
As long as people in the media (you know who you are); the government; and assorted ideology-driven right-wingers refer to “throwing money at the” problem – instead of “investing in solutions” – then the problem will persist.
I have news for the ACT/National Party apparatchiks and fellow travellers;
1. Ignoring a problem rarely makes it go away. In fact, it probably never goes away if it’s ignored.
2. Being judgement and moralising and finger-wagging at the poor for “choosing” to be poor is about as effective as me standing on the beach and commanding the waves to recede. King Canute got a free swim when he tried that.
3. Why is it that government spending money on corporate welfare; umpteen more roads (please, NO MORE FUCKING ROAD CONES!!!); media spin doctors and consultants, is an “investment” – but putting resources and money at a dire problem is “throwing money at it”?!
Now, here’s the $900 million dollar question I put to Stephen, Andrew, and any other ACT/Nat types lurking around TDB;. is Wiri prison an investment or throwing money at the problem
Take your time.
I’m curious how you would define that spending.
As well as the heartlessness of calling it “throwing money at the problem”, note the straw person/counsel of perfection of “will it solve the problem?”
Of course it bloody won’t! Who ever said it would? The question is, will it do SOME good? Will it reduce the problem? Will it save SOME children from further abuse and a life of crime (and thereby be excellent value for money)?
To solve the problem will take a shotload of research into the causes of child abuse and crime, and a fairly thorough revamp of society. Let’s do what we can where we know it can do some good, and worry about perfection when we can see it in the distance.
jonky’s pushing a flag change because of what it represents. It represents our head of state, QE 2, and the British commonwealth, of which we are a part. Once that’s done, the next thing will be a referendum on becoming a republic, the outcome of which will be as a result of rigging, like the last election.
We will then become employees of the Corporation previously known as NZ / Aotearoa and once that happens? You will work until you die and if you don’t work? You will die of starvation and/or poor health etc.
Who else sees that ?
Lets see now?
$26 million on a brainless, pointless flag change for shits and giggles ? Or , a flag change to psychologically leverage us away from our ancient heritage and traditions which , like it or not, gives us at least a modicum of cultural definition. ( Maori ? You’re in this as much if not more than any of us. Like it or not, you are a minority. If NZ goes the Republic way you will become extinct. Your language will be the first to go followed by your lands. Ask any native American? )
I’ve seen footage of the Queen walking solemnly along wearing a feather cape. If the Corporation has its way it’ll have an advertising logo spray painted across it.
@ Steven. No class darling. A big, warm glass of milk, an early night. You’ll feel better in the morning. Big hugs little man. night-night xxx
Can you please explain to us how having the Queen of England, Head of State of a neo-colony of the USA on the other side of the world, as our purely symbolic Head of State protects the people of Aotearoa in any way, shape, or form? As for Māori, they tend to think they’d have been better off if they’d controlled immigration, as the NZ state does now, to conserve their cultural majority. The colonization of the US, as in Aotearoa, was worse for those who defended their sovereignty and their way of life, and not as bad for those who allowed themselves to be ruled and assimilated, but at least *now*, the surviving peoples of Turtle Island are recognised as First Nations, their lands outside of federal jurisdiction. Many iwi, such as Tūhoe, would love to have such recognition of their Mana Motuhake, but instead they get terror raids. But sure CountryBoy, they’re much better off under the Queen of England than they would be in Aotearoa was a federal republic, like the Netherlands.
Once the flag is changed and the Republic of New Zealand is established, the Treaty of Waitangi will be f***** (redundant), and Maoris will be f*****, John Key will then become President of the Republic of New Zealand.
I don’t understand why Key reinstated Knighthoods then wants to change the flag, double standards in my reckoning.
Yes ashamed @ bark, and would prefer to pay taxes for the betterment of the whole country, rather than wasting it on pretty flag ideas, yacht races, sky city convention centres, MP’s high wages ( for doing F-all), new BMW’s, need I go on, and on, and on.
Sadly I know I say this in vain – as this National Government is the Pitts when it comes to priorities, so with them in, all but the 1% will be out of the picture.
Is changing the NZ Flag really a priority?
I thought there are more important issues to address here in NZ at Present?
Didn’t Prince Harry and John Key have quiet words about the flag scheme? My guess is it’s a way to nudge us to keep the old queen’s flag, but prevent any proper decision being viable for another twenty years, also dampening any republican moves.
The ridiculous right are good at gobbledegoop. Let’s change the phrase ‘ throwing money at the poor’ to “investing in our poor” so they have hope for a brighter future.
Selling our assets becomes ‘ recycling finances’
Key and National/ACT are indulging in trivia like changing the flag, rather than concentrating on the big picture. I don’t think they really know what is going on, just flogging off assets to keep the Bankers happy.
Looks like we the taxpayer will pick up the S**T.
John Key is contradicting himself by wanting to change the flag having been instrumental in re-introducing knighthoods which are basically given away like confetti these days?
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