By calling TPPA protestors extremists – has Groser triggered mass surveillance powers?



Those of us who don’t want NZs economic and political sovereignty traded away so John Key can keep getting golf time with his buddy Obama have had to put up with Key calling us misinformed and now the Trade Minister, Tim Groser has called us ‘completely extreme’.

How ‘extreme’? Are we protestors ‘extremists’ for demanding that a secret trade deal for US corporations that denies us the right to pass domestic laws be made public and debated before the NZ Executive just signs it off?

How does that make us ‘extreme’, and by labelling us ‘extreme’ does that trigger mass surveillance authorities? The loopholes National have allowed by giving the GCSB the power of mass surveillance means if the Deep State who answer to Washington and not Wellington believe we protestors are threatening their hegemonic control (and in this situation, NZ handing over its economic sovereignty to the US in exchange for the power to spy on everyone would be seen as a great deal), then we suddenly become the enemy and an enemy that must be monitored.

Don’t believe me? Take the recent example of Police spy Rob Gilchrist who was paid $600 per week to infiltrate Greenpeace, Animal Rights groups and Unions for the cops. Very little of this had to do with real law breaking, it was internal spying on domestic protest groups. If the Cops are prepared to go as far as putting a spy into fairly benign protest movements and laugh about naked photos he took of his Girlfriend, then what are they prepared to do against protestors trying to stop something like a free trade deal with America that they desperately want?

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We have allowed this Government to give incredible powers to intelligence agencies like the SIS who helped them win the 2011 election by smearing Phil Goff with lies about Israeli backpackers. That this unforgivable abuse of political power has been met with a collective shrug by most NZers suggests they have absolutely no idea what has been given away so Big Brother can watch them.

I feel that if it had been Helen Clark who had rammed theses types of powers through, those same NZers who shrug now would be foaming with rage, but for some reason they think National won’t abuse those powers. despite every evidence that they do.




  1. re yr last paragraph – let’s not forget little fell over himself rushing to sign labour up to these expanded surveillance-powers..

    ..we’re fucked whichever way we turn..

    • Aunty Helen’s government oversaw Operation8 (see the excellent doco of the same name) and the subsequent Urewera Raids, and drafted the Search and Surveillance Bill. If there’s one thing National and Labour have always agreed on, it’s the need for invasive policing and surveillance to “rein in our radicals”. That quote, by the way, is from Kevin Hackwell of Forest and Bird, and neatly ignores the fact that the people on the forefront of every major piece of social and environmental progress in history were called “radicals” for taking positions that are now viewed as simply common sense (slavery is bad, apartheid is bad, nuclear weapons are bad, pollution is bad, smoking cigarettes causes cancer etc).

  2. Viewing RT Channel and “Democracy now” on Face TV recently, it has come as a pleasant surprise to me that there is plenty of opposition within the U$A itself to the TPP. There are concerns that corporations such as BP have already ridden roughshod over the American government, while low-paid workers fear that their jobs will be even less secure through increased importation of cheaply-produced goods.

  3. This is the classic and to be expected response of this govt’s style of minimizing of any voice of dissent or opposition.

    One would hardly expect them to have consulted Crosby Textor to have come up with such drivel.

    And drivel it is…as 30,000 demonstrators is only the tip of the iceberg of what the public really believes is right. And what of the so called silent majority ?

    Well…that cant be relied either simply because of the very nature of the silence.

    You can twist a ‘silent majority’s opinion on an issue any which way you please as it is simply all hypothetical and highly subjective to the ones trying to direct the narrative for their own ends.

    It is simply he said /she said.

    So that doesn’t wash. In fact ….it is a classic ploy and tool of Key’s govt to attempt to do this. On any major issue during the last 6 years this is the modus operandi and style of his govt.

    We saw it all with dirty politics and mass surveillance regarding the XKEYSCORE debacle – whereby Key denied there was any involvement with the 5 eyes networks XKEYSCORE program.

    That was, …until the words of Snowden were proven right .

    It was then Key retreated on the issue after an initial period of resistance until he was proven to have lied to the public on such a major issue.

    And finally admitted Snowden was right.

    But not until claims by the SIS that Key had compromised this nations security by dragging out documents ( which were shown to be completely irrelevant to the issue ) in trying to support his claims.

    Adding to this is the issue’s of a fundamental democracy inasmuch as with any major issue it would , – under a normal healthy and functioning democracy – generally behoove any govt who wishes to maintain the public’s good faith in them that full disclosure and a realistic time-frame of public debate would be held.

    The fact that neither has occurred – in fact the opposite – automatically and simultaneously both insults the public’s intelligence and deny’s the democratic process.

    Adding insult to injury , this govt chooses instead to use the crude and cliched method of decrying any such public debate by labeling the anti TTPA demonstrators as ‘misinformed ‘ ( when there has been zero public disclosure ) tools of the Left ( when members of their own party have expressed these exact same concerns ) anti govt ( sacrificing their own members opinions to support this ‘theory ‘ ).

    All of this…viewed in the clear light of day exacerbate an already hotly debated public issue.

    Which to date…suffers from the very thing this govt charges those as being misinformed with – the complete lack of information to what they intend to sign this country up to in the first place.

    No govt that is open in its dealings with the public operates in this manner.

    Therefore this not only points to ulterior dealings with which this govt wants to keep from the general public – but displays a contempt for the very public it is supposedly elected by , and are representatives of.

    So it is interesting that not only is the future of our country under a TTPA deal at stake…but actually the most fundamentals of a functioning democracy – to which so far this govt has demonstrated an increasing level of contempt.

    As for the TTPA…Prof . Jane Kelsey has already outlined the issues in minutiae of just how this TTPA will affect this country’s sovereignty.And it would behoove all of us to sit up and take notice of one such as herself who is more than qualified to comment on the ramifications of the deal.

    So much so that Key himself would generalize enough to include her in that number of those so misinformed.

    And that truly is the height of political arrogance to dismiss such informed voices.

  4. We have allowed this Government to give incredible powers to intelligence agencies like the SIS who helped them win the 2011 election by smearing Phil Goff with lies about Israeli backpackers. That this unforgivable abuse of political power has been met with a collective shrug by most NZers suggests they have absolutely no idea what has been given away so Big Brother can watch them.

    Hello don’t blame Joe Bloggs when Labour appears to be endorcing the SIS and GCSB behaviour, they agreed the 24 hr surveillance bill.

    Labour’s stance on surveillance is like family violence when the victim is the first one to ask police to drop the charges.

  5. Grosser saying anyone rejecting TPPA is an extremest is pure Hitlerism.

    I fear the NatZ have been indoctrinated by their masters at Bilderberg to advance this 1933 pre war type stance in preparation for forcing the bill through without any further delay, Bilderberg would have directed him to do there seems our belief now.

    Grosser does not ever believe we have any rights or voice so he belongs with the Bilderberger group not here in our freeland.

  6. This government is beyond a joke,they try to rubbish anything the public says about any issue that the government want to hide.
    The tppa protests around the country,and John Key calls it “rent a crowd” I went on a march and nobody paid me any rent,
    Grosser called us extremists,this man has never been elected ,hes not an MP.
    Mr Key needs to know that the seat Winston won in Northland was by ex National voters,there were heaps of those on the march!
    It might have been a protest vote against Key ,but next time it wont. It will be a overwhelming vote for Winston.
    Its blatently obvious the actions on TPPA is to support the corporations who wrote it in their own favour, the corporations know obviously whats in the deal,but the people it affects are called negative names by Key and Grosser.and refused access to the information.

    Are we expected to believe either of these frauds who lie constantly telling us its a good deal, for us its not,it is however good for Key, Grosser, and the greedy corporations.
    Things must be coming to a head because they both are so arrogant to believe we would accept what they want to do , which is ruin NZ without any conscious at all.America has had huge marches against tppa ,are they all rent a crowd and extremists too, ?the only extremists here are Key and Grosser.

  7. I don’t actually know what Key & Groser are up to with the TPP.

    I need more information before I can pass judgement.

    Not sure what the secret squirrell stuff is all about?

    • [Try that again without the abuse, Blue. Such comments will not see the light of day on this site. – ScarletMod]

    • Helena ,this link sounds like utopia,i wish and hope its true but I think we are all jaded by the world up to date.
      Since the earth came out of the ice age,underwater the big fish preyed on the smaller,on land the same ,and its been going on ever since.

      Most people know the evils of war ,some people profit by war.
      We wont really know good from bad and learn from it,unless we experience it.Its a territorial thing,we all fight for our rights or land ,so fighting is an inbuilt survival instint.
      What the world needs is to stop the greed and control freaks.
      We all have some measure of controlling in our natures,but the greedy take it to the extreme. Governments now are pretty useless ,the people in charge of governments are the ones controlling the them ie the corporations and secret societies.Curb the powers of these people and the trickle down effect will make a better world.

  8. It is the TPPA supporters who are the extremists who should be subject to monitoring from the security agencies. They are prepared to give up the sovereignty of NZ to the Global corporates in return for some ephemeral “free trade” in dairy that ain’t gonna happen. Even Grocer appeared slightly shell shocked by the lack of good will from Canada in this regard. He needs to pull back from the assumption that anything Labelled “free trade” is good for NZ.

  9. The real extremists are those in the National government that want to sell out to the United States corporations and have their own private Gestapo spy on their political opponents.

  10. I remember when Tim Shadbolt was considered to be one of the most dangerous people in the country. I was associated with defence at the time and if they had the word terrorist then, he would have been one.
    Maybe we need him in govt now? He has done so well in Invercargill.

    • Jack, Mate, Jeremy Corbyn is a “pommie”, and I sincerely wish we had a bloke like him on the political scene here.

  11. The reason why I believe the last election was rigged( with US help) – was for this – The TPPA – National will sign it – that’s ‘the deal’.
    It is out of our hands…sadly it will be the other countries, negotiating the the ‘so called’ treaty, that will decide our fate.
    The US have already ‘brought’ NZ’s agreement. It’s as clear as day.
    Key and Grosser wouldn’t care if the whole country protested – all 4 and half million ( and counting) of us. It’s a done deal in their eyes.
    What a fantastic democracy (should be democ-farcey) we have!

  12. If the TPP were ‘agreed’ it would be open to constitutional legal challenge, as the process of stifling parliamentary debate and information violates our law on multinational treaties.

    • Don’t think this government takes notice of laws except to change them to suit themselves.Who monitors international laws,they all seem to be in the pockets of those that want to circumvent them.
      Freespeak, who in our parliamentary system will challenge the trade?
      I havnt heard of a person in government, but our friend the professor Jane Kelsy might if we all backed her .

  13. Grosser calls TPPA protesters extremists today.

    Tomorrow FJK will call us (economic) “terrorists”! Then watch the intelligence agencies come down on dissenters, using anti terrorism laws!

    The legislation is all there in place, just waiting for the nod from FJK to activate them!

    The old cynic in me says we are balancing on the edge on a dangerous precipice of being consumed by absolute totalitarianism!

  14. When I marched in Christchurch with the other extremists on the TPP protest(farmers , doctors and tradies)I noticed photographers taking pictures of all of us With the technologies of eye identification etc it does make one wonder what big brother is up to ?

  15. Interesting security people taking photographs of protesters, we really are turning into a Fascist Police State under Heer Key.

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