And the latest mass surveillance revelations – which are only the tip of the iceberg – start becoming a weekly ritual now.
Each week there is another example of NZ acting as America’s nark, destroying Key’s claim that the GCSB doesn’t do mass surveillance and demolishing the myth that we use these vast spying powers to protect us from specific terrorist threats to our nation.
Re-watch the Moment of Truth and realise with horror that what was said has all been proven to be true…
…because of the way the media framed it, instead of this…
…we got this…
The NZ electorate were played like a banjo at the last election. The political double standards should shame us all. If Helen Clark had rammed through mass surveillance laws and had used the SIS to falsely smear John Key before an election, the Right would be on the streets calling for a Civil War. Key does it and because of his well managed, dirty politics drenched, mainstream media fawning brand management, most NZers want the guy over for a bloody beer and a BBQ.
Our anti-intellectualism has become terminal. For a nation that screamed Nanny State because of legislation that removed the legal right to bash your kids, who for one second would have thunked that the sleepy hobbits of muddle Nu Zilind would actively worship a leader who spied upon them all?
‘The price of apathy towards public affairs is to be ruled by evil men.’
– Plato
So bloody true its is infuriating.
History may indeed repeat itself, except this time right on our very own home soil.
As with the resignation of president Nixon, ….to avoid the almost certain impeachment that would follow….
Here we have John KEY, who not only denied any knowledge his chief of staff/communications officer used the SIS to smear a political opponent…and sites his nebulous ‘office’ instead…
To which the Inspector General found it was indeed involved in those activities..
But has denied vehemently that ‘ full take’ data – or in plainspeak – ‘mass surveillance ‘ – of New Zealanders occurred/occurs now.
He has not only been proven wrong in light of the recent revelations about spying on the nations of the Pacific – under the 5 eyes spy network using the American funded GSCB….and that this could potentially jeopardize the trust between these and our nation…and compromise our trade relations…but in backtracking to recent history….
If one remembers back only a few months ago around the 2014 election when he constantly lied to the public about ‘mass surveillance’ and the XKEYscore program, and full take data of the populace ,…he did so much deny this that he demanded the SIS furnish him with ‘proof’….
To which even the SIS stated that he had potentially compromised NZ’s security in doing so.
And then after all that when he had backed himself into a corner…finally came out publicly and stated that yes…’some ‘ surveillance has been conducted…
But that’s not the end of it by any measure….
This is not even mentioning the illegality of the GSCB spying on Mr Kim Dotcom along with 88 others. It is no surprise later then that he moved quickly on instruction from the NSA for our GSCB to close those legal loopholes…
The shoddy , disgusting treatment of Mr Kim Dotcom ( and recall at that time he was indeed a NZ resident as well…)…is a case in point of this so -called PM’s ability to victimize anyone who stands in the way of his and his Globalist masters game plan.
It is no small wonder then why this ‘PM’ pulled out all the stops and happily had a Waco , Texas style invasion of Mr Kim Dotcom’s private residence and family’s privacy. On our own soil.
And then denied ( as he usually does ) he had any knowledge of the man.
As he denied any involvement with Ian Fletcher…yet days before Fletcher was to take that post they had a breakfast together…and despite four other candidates…Fletcher was the man chosen.
They had both known each other since childhood.
As was nothing also said about the meeting and quiet arrival in the early hours of the morning of an aircraft onto these shores which contained no less than a high ranking official of the NSA – taking place secretly with several high ranking officials of our own ….John Cambell’s TV3 produced a very compelling investigation that this meeting was to remove the ‘ threat ‘ Mr Dotcom ‘comprised’….
It was then found the GSCB goofed and HAD acted illegally…after the fact.
The victim was thrown in jail , after he and his pregnant wife had been treated roughly – that after having 88 paramilitary abseil down from circling helicopters – to invade the property…do we even use THOSE tactics against criminal gangs !!! ???
Mr Dotcom was asset stripped, denied access to cash , a phone call to his lawyer and made into a pariah by the news media – oh yes- those that thought at that time John KEY could do no wrong – and still New Zealanders slept through all of this.
We have the Donghua Liu false donations scandal by the very same media which it has now found to have been fabricated totally. Another political smear against political opponents.
But the magic is all starting to unravel now for this ‘ PM ‘ as the recent Snowden revelations regarding spying on our Pacific neighbors were concerned -and , – in Key’s position – almost prophetic.
So indeed…the very men John Key called ‘Screaming Left wing conspiracy theorist’s ‘ have turned out not to be mere theorist’s – but accurate . informed , articulate harbingers of the truth. The Moment of Truth , – with Snowden , Assange , Greenwald , Amsterdam …and their hosts Mr Kim Dotcom ,Laila Harre…the Internet Mana party made this possible.
Which makes Key’s former populist rant seem extremely shallow and artificial at the very least.
A recent article produced by Martyn Bradbury lists around 25 instances where this ‘PM ‘ …has been found to be wanting regarding accurately portraying the truth …..contained within that list are some very serious omissions and deliberations that have compromised our democratic processes.
And not least among all these is the latest of Key’s unilateral decision to commit troops in the fight against ISIS…to which even his confidence and supply political partners are divided.
We should all be extremely unnerved by the modus operandi and motives of this ‘ PM’ and start to question just where this individual is taking this country and by whom.
And for why.
Hear hear WILD KAPITO.
An excellent summation of the facts, laying bare Key’s unscrupulous tactics, through his lies, his duplicity, treason and corruption!! And from what I’ve read of your post, you haven’t missed a beat. Well done there 🙂
Isn’t it a pity though, comments such as these aren’t coming from msm, keeping the public in general informed of the facts, without the Natsy/Joyce/Key influenced biased spin?
The issues raised in your post should be screaming, in your face msm headlines! If this was the case, Key could well be history by now, facing an appointment with the judiciary, standing in the dock, the very place where his lies and deceit have put Kim Dotcom many times!
Now I stand to be corrected here re the date, but I believe next Friday 20 March is the day the suppression orders on the “prominent NZer” are to be lifted. If so, this just might be a game changer for dear leader! Possibly indeed a game changer for the whole country, particularly with a byelection the following weekend! Oh dear!
WILD KATIPO;
Thanks for you and Martyn of reminding us in the long list of fascist
tactics.
We seem to quickly forget as we move on to the next assault in our
busy lives in today’s world.
Kim Dotcom has paid the ultimate price of the wrecking of his marriage
and separation of his wife and family.(no one seems to mention)
All the persons mentioned above are our modern day hero’s.
Except Key of course.He is a traitor.
Bring back the lynch mob for these types I’d say.
Cheers
Most are completely unaware of why the UN and Agenda 21 and TPPA are not what we need. Most are unaware of why Helen Clark and John Key were put into leadership roles and we need to get smart and learn why our country is going the way it is. Perpetual war, fear mongering, controlled media, GCSB out of control and governments controlled by corporations. To them, we are a mineral rich gold mine they want to gain from and then leave us the mess to clean up. They care less about their impact on the people; the sonar damaged whales and our NZ environment. TPPA will give them the rights to sue us if they are displeased with anything.
John Key finds millions to send troops and money overseas while children and seniors etc. suffer here in NZ and homelessness and poverty grows and now the Nats are kicking poor people out of their homes. All the while the Nats lie and lie to us and most believe them.
Rosa Koire needs to be heard about Agenda 21 and the hows and whys of what is really and honestly going on. We do not need to be sheeples anymore. If we get united, we can take back our country from these greedy criminals.
Obama and Key, Cameron etc. are puppets controlled by the Rothschilds zionist jews and we need to wake up. The Rothschilds
(extended worldwide) family now owns land and homes here in NZ, some around the Christchurch area, and it is growing.
Also – look into the real truths behind 9/11 and HAARP induced earthquakes. Fukishima and Christchurch – most do not know the truth.
The MOMENT OF TRUTH was a brilliant production with some outstanding participants and they revealed the truth. Too bad our media and our asleep leaders and most of the public just did not get it. Please listen again to the Moment of Truth and hear what is really going on and why. Glenn Greenwald deserves an apology from our rude/insulting P.M.
For more on Agenda 21 / Rosa Koire – check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ykELwj1Ta8
Blake;
Bloody Brilliant. I agree with every thing you have said.
If everyone put up links to support their comments we will
slowly get thru to the sheeple. It’s not just opinion.
Let them decide for themselves.Sooner or later the penny will
drop.One subject at a time the paradigm shift will happen.
It only takes 1,2,or 3 to make them realize the MSM is deceiving them.
Mass awareness thru the internet is the only tool we’ve got to make this happen.
Maybe then we can get ‘them’ to pull their heads in.
Agenda 21 is closely linked to the Global Warming meme to
control our populations and countries.
It has not been occurring for last 17-18yrs.
There are other reasons for the extreme weather events.
Browse back through Martyn’s column to about beginning of Feb for my links and excellent ones from others.
Mainly in posts on war,’terrorist’s,’ GCSB serveillance and of
course political matters.
There are some wide awake people here.
Inform your friends,family and others about it.
The ‘info-war’ is in progress.
Cheers.
Do you you honestly believe the issue with the moment of truth was that people didn’t believe what was put forward? The issue was that it was built up as being something that it wasn’t and people generally didn’t care what Snowdon or Greenwald had to say.
So, Gosman, you “generally didn’t care” that the state is surveilling us?
You “generally didn’t care” that the GCSB, SIS, NSA, and Uncle Tom “007” Cobbly is monitoring our communications? Or that we’ve had nearly half a dozen pieces of legislation since 2008, extending the powers of spy agencies?
If so, please remind us what your problem was with the former Soviet Union (aside from lack of consumer goods)? Because it seems to me that you would’ve fitted in very well as a card-carrying member of the CPSU and staunch supporter of the then-KGB.
My problem is the abuse by the State of information it has. Not simply the collection of information itself. The state already has an awful lot of information about people it gathers legitimately that it could abuse. Stopping it doing so does not involve stopping it gathering it on the whole.
Wonder if the ‘ Excluded ‘ Brethren has shares in the GSCB , then , eh mate?
Maybe ‘ Nehemia’ can answer that question for you , eh Gossie?
“The issue was that it was built up as being something that it wasn’t and people generally didn’t care what Snowdon or Greenwald had to say.”
Why not?. ..and what was it built up as being?
P.S. . .I don’t believe any of those that ‘don’t care’ actually watched said presentation.
Willfully ignorant!!! . . . AKA . . .STUPID!
At the time there was a lot of confusion about what it was going to be about, with Dotcom implying it would be something about him. Tactically it would have been better for him to have stayed away. The result in fact was very much as your cartoon illustrates. It was the viewers who stayed away, contenting themselves to watch (and believe) the media’s pathetic take on it.
And yet you should be personally thanking him for playing his part in bringing Snowden and Assange to us to show us first hand what is happening.
It was billed as Kim dotcom providing irrefutable evidence that John Key had known about him prior to the raid on his house. It was not billed as some esoteric discussion on mass surveilance. If it had been the former then National would have likely lost the last election.
To believe that John Key didn’t know a thing about KimDotcom while being minister in charge of our spy agencies is either further proof of the mans incompetence or that he is a consummate liar with a hidden agenda.
Neither of which bode well for New Zealand in having that caliber of person in the highest office in the land.
To think otherwise is indeed being deliberately selective of all the facts.
Its as simple as that.
@GOSMAN
Rewrite history much. . .
How is that re-writing history?
Well. . .Show me the proof?
That proof was put into the legal domain via parliament and unable to be presented at the event as stated there and then.
Really??? So what happened to it in Parliament? Also what law states that something before parliament can’t also be discussed in public?
So gosman you agree the mass surveillance is wrong, then why are you arguing the case for John Key?
Mass surveilance is not wrong on it’s own. It should be actively discouraged and controlled but I accept that it goes on at some level especially amongst external intelligence gathering simply because it is the most effective way of gathering data. The alternative makes it difficult to catch security threats that are not known about before surveilance is undertaken. I am interested in ensuring better oversight of the intelligence agencies so that the data is used correctly and not misused by any party. If you are interested in discussing ways we can do this then perhaps we can have a discussion about what options there are in this space.
This Government you champion has already been caught using the SIS to frame and smear the leader of the opposition months before the 2011 election, as a constant defender of that Government, you have no moral high ground to preach on the issues of mass surveillance
Martyn you are a constant defender of Kim Dotcom. How do you defend that position?
Why shouldn’t he, Nehemia/Intrinsicvalue? KDC has not been convicted of any crime in this country.
You do support of the concept of innocent-until-proven-guilty, don’t you?
If that was the case (quite obviously I disagree with your particular take on that subject) then why isn’t the leader of the Opposition more interested in providing better oversight to these agencies?
Surely given the overt politicisation of the security services that you claim took place the leader of the opposition would be screaming blue murder at getting a proper independent oversight in place rather than coming to a cosy arrangement with National to hog all the places on the current committee between them.
Gosman -so dead wrong and out of touch. Did you listen to the MOMENT OF TRUTH ?
If you had and if you had an open mind you would see that it was extremely important information ! ! Glenn Greenwald is light years ahead of John Key when it comes to ethics and honesty and intelligence. LIGHT YEARS !
Maybe the NZ public needs to care more about the loss of our privacy and our rights and our sovereignty by these greedy corporate crooks and banksters. Look at how few positive votes you got on your comment. Tell you anything ? Likely not.
The moment of truth had an impact on the polls. You just need to read or listen to David Farrar to know that. He stated that after the revel the polls for National strengthened immensely. If it was perceived by the majority who watched it as you made out then it wouldn’t have had this effect.
Regardless , that was when John Key was at the height of his lie -telling about their being no mass surveillance – it was also before the most recent apology to Kim Dotcom on March the 5th 2015 by Key that the GSCB -and by association himself , getting it wrong and acting illegally.
As recent events have now borne out – it is now in the open that Key was lying throughout that whole timeframe…with the recent apology made on March the 5th to Dotcom and the more recent exposure of GSCB activity in the Pacific.
And by association with those Pacific country’s spying was also being conducted on New Zealand citizens there…as Niue and the Cook Islanders have NZ citizenship – as well as mainland NZ’ ers who happened to be in those places while all this was being done.
Your argument is indefensible because of these facts, Gosman – this is no esoteric imaginings as we are now dealing with solid fact.
And if the public was to have known what just lay around the corner in the future -instead of the constant lies and smears by Key at that time , chances are that after the vindication of The Moment of Truth the backlash would have been far more tangible.
The Moment of Truth was a complete disaster for all involved. KDC was made to look a fool. Laila Harre was left with zero credibility, and most kiwi’s looked on in absolute shock that seemingly intelligent people could get so worked up over something so insignificant. Let me remind you of the election result…an election that took place just days after this alleged ‘game changer’…
National 47%
Labour 25%
The Greens 11%
NZ First 9%
Oh, and by the way, what apology are you referring to from March 2015?
Read the NZ Herald March 5th , 2015.
And no matter what you say or your chosen supplier of stats, the facts are now that all that was contained within the Moment of Truth has become patently obvious it was the the truth-
As evidenced by what is being now revealed as events in the Pacific demonstrate.
As well , Key’s popularity is becoming increasingly jaded because of being found to have been lying all of this time.
The old saying ‘ you may fool some of the people some of the time but you cannot fool all of the people all of the time’ is totally appropriate here.
By the time the demise of Key comes about he will be lucky indeed if he gets away without any future legal difficulties as he has now overplayed his hand once too often.
I guess that those with the optimistic view that the presentation would be a ‘game changer’ (in a positive sense), were either overestimating the intelligence (or effort to SEEK OUT TRUTH) of the ‘majority’, underestimating the (resources, cunning, deception etc) of the enemy, . . . or complicit. . .or at best complacent.
“the polls for National strengthened immensely. If it was perceived by the majority who watched it as you made out then it wouldn’t have had this effect.” –
This would have to start with the assumption that all of these people operate with a similar conviction and conscience, ethics/morality or intelligence.
Or that all of those that were propelled toward National by the revelations (supposedly), ACTUALLY WATCHED THEM, . ..and were moved by the information rather than fresh LIES, spin/propaganda or personal bias and sentiment. Herald articles TELLING you that the big reveal amounted to nothing of any significance. . . Well. . They would know.
I DON’T NEED TO WASTE MY TIME WATCHING THIS CRAZY COMMIE/TINFOIL CONSPIRACY BUUUUULLLSHIAT. Yet I know already what they have to say. . .CRAZY COMMIE/TINFOIL CONSPIRACY BUUUUULLSHIAT!!!
So they are spying on us all to protect us from the terrorists. . .In a legal manner with no unrestricted access to information, Yet prior to the last election JK used/was fed information that was gained THROUGH this mass surveillance system for POLITICAL GAIN. . .And yet that would and could never happen RIGHT. . . NO. . .NOT RIGHT. Instead we just decide to smear more and more segments of society until we can also use the label terrorist on them, and what we have left are a bunch of easily led, . . sheep to the slaughter fools such as NEHEMIA BOT.
I see this is all a game, but you are on the wrong team. One day your arrogance will also be removed in a flash and you will be just as weak and helpless . . .and SCUM as those you currently look down your nose at in our very own caste system.
Democracy is mob rule anyway, . . . and since when have the seething masses represented anything ‘good’. That is probably why the ‘big reveal’ had if anything an inverse effect. . .Those primarily watching it were probably those that are already aware of most of the information and therefore have lost faith in the system, . . . or those that would rather not be there, deciding how to spin the story for the SSDD peepz.
To paraphrase – People are dumb and shouldn’t be allowed to vote. Let me and my enlightened group of left wingers run things for everyone’s ‘greater good’.
No mate…we just dont like your brand of hero who uses corruption and lies to attain his objective.
In case you hadn’t noticed Gossie, the current government is not left wing. The growth of he surveillance state has occurred under a NATIONAL government, not a left wing government.
Take responsibility for who you voted for mate,
Eh??? I never stated the current government was left wing. I’m not sure why you think I did.
I don’t do left wing/right wing paradigm. So no, but I can see how you would perceive what I said in that way.
You do seem less bigoted, more thoughtful then NEHEMIA like so that’s a bonus!
Everyone who participated in the MOMENT OF TRUTH already had ethics and credibility and honesty on their sides. It was with major significance and importance to those with open minds and substance between the ears.
The MOMENT OF TRUTH was no disaster but a huge success by exposing the rot in our government etc. Now read some of what Glenn Greenwald has to say about the NSA and also about NZ.
Your 47 % for Nats. is again and always misleading. 45% or so of the ” registered voters” not the whole of NZ. It does sound so much better to state that 45% of NZ voted for Johnny Boy, doesn’t it ? Just another fuzzy biased misleading bit of propaganda to build up a lying and unethical PM who really needs to be brought to trial instead of leading our country. WE DESERVE SO MUCH BETTER.
Wall/IV/whatever – I love how you are such a chirpy little fan of this surveillance sstate government.
Will you also support spying on the populace when Labour takes office? I bet you’ll love John Minto as head of the GCSB! Don’t you worry, my fascist little friend, I’m sure John woill treat your private data with he same respect the other John (Dear Leader) did…….
Our right to privacy certainly is not “insignificant”. If we have no freedom, we have nothing.
Yep, you’re onto it. The ‘moment of truth’ turned a close election into a massacre for the left.
And a massacre for sovereignty , democracy and freedom from other country’s interference.
Hitler practiced the same sort of techniques to achieve his ends ie : bald faced lies, surveillance, intimidation of individuals, fraudulent scandals to smear opposition party’s , taking over media through CEO’s etc…
Your hero Key is nothing to be proud of . It only proves history has a tendency to repeat itself if we are not vigilant.
Unfortunately it has in this country for the last 7 years.
“And a massacre for sovereignty , democracy and freedom from other country’s interference. ”
No, not really. We enjoy the same freedoms we did under the previous Govt., and there aren’t as many examples of the Govt. making decisions they have no mandate for.
Really?
You mean like raising GST when Key promised not to?
Like selling state houses when Key promised no further asset sales?
Like sending troops to Iraq when he specifically said no to the proposal?
There are others, but those three will do for starters.
As for your assertion that “We enjoy the same freedoms we did under the previous Govt” – what self-delusional nonsense.
The Nats have implemented at least three new laws extending the powers of the State to surveil us and engage in massdata collection, so that paranoid munters like you can feel safe from your own shadow. Plus the Nats have changed industrial laws protecting union rights to negotiate collective agreements, so employers can now walk away from the bargaining table.
So don’t tell us we have the same “freedoms”, you self-serving Tory fool. You are delusional if you think that is the case, and more delusional if you think we’ll buy into your tripe.
Frank you are delusional.
National has gone to the electorate twice since raising GST and won.
National signalled state house sales well before the last election.
No promise has been broken on the engagement in Iraq. That is a moving feast, and leaders take decisions as they need to. Unlike election bribes (student free loans), unconscionable intrusions on our constitutional rights (privy council) and economic vandalism (nationalising Kiwi Rail).
Finally, the Govt has no additional powers toady than were exercised under Clark. The only difference is the surveillance is now legal.
No – National told voters they wouldn’t raise GST and then did after they won.
No – National didn’t signal the privatisation of state housing before the election
No – Key said before the election reinvading Iraq was unlikely – and then after he won he u-turned
Students deserve interest free loans if they are staying in NZ after their study, how dare you wank on about constitutional rights after Key passed mass surveillance powers and the only economic vandalism here is borrowing billions in tax cuts to subsidise asset sales to the already rich.
Look IV-Fake Wall, your trolling needs brushing up. This is becoming an embarrassment, head back to Kiwiblog for a tune up, you’re supposed to be better than this.
The hypocrisy of arseholes like you IV-Fake wall is that you would be screaming to the high heavens if Clarke was pulling the shit Key does, you have zero moral high ground to preach from.
Nehemia/Intrinsicvalue – you are either badly misinformed, or are outright lying. I refer you to these announcements by John Key
GST
Key stated in 2008:
Source: http://www.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/3311679/Key-no-GST-rise-video-emerges
Not only was there no mandate to increase GST as you suggest, but he actually refuted any such move.
State Assets
On 24 February 2014, Key was reported as saying;
Source: http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/political/237132/pm-rules-out-more-asset-sales
Key seemed crystal clear in his announcement. Perhaps you’re reading something else?
Iraq
On 18 June 2014, Key was reported in the media thusly;
Source: http://www.3news.co.nz/politics/key-rules-out-sending-troops-to-iraq-2014061805#axzz3REgngqSl
All three are fairly clear statements and signal clear policy announcements.
For you to now claim otherwise is patently dishonest. One wonders if you truly believe your own mis-information, or, if someone else has lied to you and you’re parroting that garbage.
I don’t expect an apology from someone of your ilk. That would be too much to expect, as I believe you are somewhat disturbed in your adherence to right wing dogma.
But I at least expect that you research your claims before making them – especially when they are easily countered with facts, and show you up to be incompetent or a liar.
Moment of Truth exposed the truth. Stupid uninformed voters went in and ticked John Key on their ballots.
It had that negative impact of the polls because the likes of David Farrar and other media outlets are throwing out biased information and fabricating for their ends and their desired results. Just look at the Kiwiblog and others that are so pro – national that they spew out disinformation and biased info and the sheeples believe it. Led with rings in the noses.
Gosman – The Moment of Truth was just that, a moment of the truth and it is a shame that not many could realize it or learn from it and had to label it ” not worthy “. It was not the reason the polls strengthened, it was stupidity and fear and people being out of touch with the truth. Please do not believe all that you hear or read especially in the mainstream media because some mega-corporation owns them and dictates what they can and will or will not publish.
I personally do not look at polls and consider them mostly misleading and biased anyway. They are a waste of time
to consider or think they show much of anything at all.
I listen to those I feel I can learn from and who have some smarts and a few to check out are below:
http://i.stuff.co.nz/national/politics/10504916/NZ-spied-on-Pacific-neighbours-Greenwald
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/3/chomsky_on_snowden_why_nsa_surveillance
Don’t believe all polls nor results of elections,this government is capable of anything that will enhance their power over NZ,and no Gossman I don’t want to debate or discuss anything with you , you are a National apologist,and would follow them if they disgusted you because you cant bare to be wrong.
Well gosman your “people in general” didn’t even see the information on Moment of Truth, it wasn’t on main stream media because it was blocked from being shown except on internet. if Key had this info’ on opposition parties the event would have been screamed from the rooftops.
Key said it was a left wing conspiracy,so National party supporters did as he wanted and didnt watch it,and MSM didn’t let people know where to access the video .
There is a petition on Forbidden Knowledge to get the Governor General to sack and remove Key,dont hold your breath about it happening, Jerry Mataparai is a token GG, and Keys man ,but that could change because he is a decent man at heart and with enough support he could get up the courage to do the right thing.
Gosman you are a blind mole making stupid statements because you cant bear to be wrong,like so many of your ilk.
It wasn’t blocked. It had lots of mainstream media coverage. Stop making stuff up.
Of all the countless hours spent with snooty self righteous types blathering on about insignificant matters and supposedly asking ‘the hard questions’, pretending to be an authority, or pretending to question authority, . . .
you would think someone may have been able to pick it up advertise, and broadcast it in full (ohhh, . . .lets sayyy. . .TVNZ perhaps, no conflict of interest 😉 so that all those who inform most of their opinions via the local rag, . .aka, The Herald. . .or that other informative tool of programming. . .The Idiot Box (sorry), or general consensus among the work place last bastion media (whatever that means). . . The Radio!
I know how much of a fantasy that suggestion ACTUALLY IS in the world WE ACTUALLY LIVE IN, . . .as opposed to the one we would prefer to believe in.
The Internet can either be viewed as the worlds largest library (archive), . . . or for a fair few I know on your side of the fence, the worlds largest compendium of fools facts and conspiracy theories. Or maybe you could hold both views?
Now. If you would like to give 10 examples (links) of the coverage the event received, I would be very impressed if more than 2 of them just presented the information as it was, for what it was, . . .rather than adding the political spin that was poured out in the days following.
Did you see it on tv the night it was broadcast?No because it wasn’t.like Dirty Politics story ,it was classed as leftist smear campaign.
I sometimes forget that sarcasm and satire don’t always travel so well in the written form . . . So please add ‘liberal’ doses when reading my response ^.
In other words. I agree!
Great Post !
Yeah, great post Martyn. I wish the wider NZ public could see the danger in our government being the servile lapdogs of the USA, clearly the most aggressive nation since Hitler’ s 1940’s Germany.
http://www.peakprosperity.com/sites/default/files/users/u4/us_war_state_3-12-2015_5-27-03_pm.jpg
And we have a Godwin.
No. Here we have historical fact.
No, it’s a Godwin. To claim that the US is ‘the most aggressive nation since Hitler’s 1940’s Germany” is both ill defined and historically inaccurate.
Actually Nehemia/Intrinsicvalue, referencing “the US [as] ‘the most aggressive nation since Hitler’s 1940’s Germany” is actually quite appropriate. In case you’re unaware how many countries the US has attacked/bombed since 1945; http://www.maurer.ca/USBombing.html
That’s not including the number of coup d’états the US has supported, or used puppet regimes to mount attacks.
Your lack of historical knowledge is disturbing.
There was another nation that you might be aware of called the Soviet Union. It morphed in to Russia. I believe they were a pretty nasty lot. Did some stuff in Eastern Europe if my memory serves.
That’s right- they spied a lot on their citizens….couldn’t happen here , though , could it.
NEHEMIA. You should watch the following documentary and let me know what you think>>>
https://vimeo.com/16724719
I did respond, but the mods removed it.
Hi IV – My understanding is that you have been banned for a week for Trolling
I’m gonna go out on a limb here and make the assumption that GOSMAN likes to refer to Occam’s Razor a lot in situations where it does not apply/out of context to the the appearance of the appeal to science. . .
But I’m just speculating for fun!
This whole mess proves – once again – just how much of a liar John Key is. I am starting to wonder just what lengths he will go to to get his(his masters?) way. What we have seen so far ain’t good. Call me paranoid, but I’m really starting to wonder about the election results. Aside from those who didn’t vote, did everyone else REALLY vote for the “Key Party?”
I presume you are aware that the NZ election authority is an independent body and that all parties have scruntineers at the casting AND counting of the ballots. Perhaps you could explain how the National party is supposedly able to steal an election under these circumstances?
They are unlikely able to stuff the ballot boxes given they could only do so if opposition parties were not present. This would lead to huge numbers of National party votes appearing in just a few polling places which would be a dead giveaway.
They also can’t deliberately miscount voters as again it would only be done if an opposition scruntineer was not present or if they were corrupt and/or incompetent. Again this would show up in the distorted counting in a few places.
“it would only be done if an opposition scruntineer was not present or if they were corrupt and/or incompetent”
Do you believe this to be impossible?
Not impossible but as I stated if I occurred then it would be easy to spot. The polling places where ithappened would have results so far out of the result in places where it didn’t happen. If you have evidence of that then you have a case. However I suspect you would prefer just to believe the election was stolen rather than looking to show that it was.
I don’t know that it was, nor do I have evidence that it was. I do know that after evidence of voter fraud and electronic tampering in the election of GWB(J), and the recent result in England/Scotland, . . .well. I wouldn’t put it past them. Nor do I think that the ONLY way of cheating the system would be via the methods you described.
But in any case. I haven’t put a lot of thought into the issue and I think that people such as yourself may well be the majority (of voters), therefore no conspiracy required, but certainly the control of the flow of information in shaping public opinion and PERCEIVED consensus is the primary issue here. Above all else. Follow Mein Fuhrer and all that 😉 (jest)
The possible rigging of elections (its the American way) Northland must be very vigilant in checking .It would be interesting to know what is in the information between Keys office and his minders in USA at this time,maybe Edward Snowden knows and will tell us before the bye election.
You do realise that rigging elections is not simply a case of announcing the result that you want. There are a number of checks and balances that would have to be overcome. The electoral commission would have to be corrupted to a degree unheard of in NZ. The opposition would have to be asleep at the wheel not to notice anything. In short it is virtually impossible.
Totally agree. Also a survey after MOT show that the public did believe KDC over John Key:
John Key 325
Kim Dotcom 675
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/opinion/news/article.cfm?c_id=466&objectid=11325032
The scary thing, is that even the left wing media and Labour and Greens were somehow manipulated into believing that the MOT was wrong and not a major revelation into foreign policy of NZ around that time.
If the opposition parties and all media had taken the claims more seriously at the time, and said there should be an enquiry they would have scored more votes.
Instead the public became confused, there was a big revelation, but all the opposition parties were saying it was a distraction. National did nothing, and outrode the controversy by manipulating the MSM and opposition to do their work for them.
So my main concern is that the opposition parties themselves seemed quite compromised after TMOT.
It was not just the MSM that turned on Dotcom, it was practically everyone and that swung the public discourse into National’s arms, where as you can see from the Herald poll, they were not there previously.
OK…we have our views, opinions etc about the JK government…..where to now?
We have heard JK promise stuff for the Northland by election and then state he might withdraw it if the Nats don’t win, and we have heard plenty of other unkept promises in his role as PM, party leader, hammer hand etc.
How do we stop him destroying the fabric of society in this country NOW!
The biggest scapegoat in this whole thing was Kim Dotcom. Wish that guy well!
I did realise ‘the moment of truth’ was true, when it was first shown, in fact I was not really surprised by the information about mass spying as John Key and the National party are the lowest of the low, and would happily do it.
I remember seeing a cartoon a week out from the event, of the town hall empty except for Kim Dotcom, and the words ‘ the moment of truth” in the corner. It was good to see on the night it was packed!
Some say the event lost the election for the left. I’m still backing my theory that the election was rigged with the help of the US.
Our anti-intellectualism has become terminal. For a nation that screamed Nanny State because of legislation that removed the legal right to bash your kids.
I agree with your article, apart from the above statement. The anti-smacking bill has been peverted with the agenda of the state to destroy and seperate families. Why? If your parents have no authority, then the ONLY authority is the state. My 15 year old daughter bunked off school and disappeared with her friends. These kids are taught their RIGHTS AT SCHOOL. When she was caught out and informed of her punishment, being grounded, she went to strike me. My partner grabbed her and forcibly escorted her outside. SHE runs off, SHE rings the police and my partner is arrested, charged and found guilty of assault. Not a scratch on her! We lacked funds for a decent lawyer and I can’t help but think the result was punishment for being a known political activist. My partner is the most placid person you could meet and had never been in trouble before. Incidently, my daughter was rewarded with the independent youth allowance. She had tried to claim the allowance before, so she would be free to do what she wanted and was declined as she had a good home to go to. She soon fixed that didn’t she! Good parents are against anti smacking legislation because they know their authority is being undermined, NOT because they want to be free to hit their kids. There are plenty of laws that cover actual child abuse.
Has the two party system in the states worked well for the people and for their economy and poverty and ending war? NO ! Has the major two party system in NZ worked well for the environment; justice; poverty, ending war and the people ? NO ! !
Do governments worldwide, except for the Nordic countries, work for the people and are not owned and dictated to by the unethical mega – corporations and crooked bankers ? Profits before People for those idiots.
We are so insular and narrow in our thinking and our knowledge about what is really going on. We focus on polls and voting and are not seeing the whole picture. We believe what the bought and owned news media tells us as if it is gospel. There is a right and ethical and fair way to do business without lies and without greed. Sorry but John Key is not that and his government are a bunch of scared little boys following the UN and the United States agenda and that is so sad for all of us pacific ocean dwellers.
What to do? Speak out, get informed about the truths, sign petitions, seek out good media like The Daily Blog, Democracy Now, Max Keiser and RT.com etc. Read about Tavistock Institute and Agenda 21.
We need to take back our government; demand honest journalism; believe those who are in the know and telling the truth like Rosa Koire and
Noam Chomsky ; Ken O’Keefe and Abby Martin and so many others.
Check out the now off the air past shows of “Breaking the Set” with Abby Martin and they can be seen on RT.com website.
Our NZ economy should be vibrant and healthy and creating a good job market for all of our people and not one that benefits wealthy unethical corporations at our expense. John Keys government is NOT what we need, they are damaging us and selling us down the river and TPPA needs to be stopped. We can take back our country and the “people united” and the “people informed” is the answer. Lets get informed about what is really going on and why. So many great folks out there telling the truth. We need to turn off mainstream media and seek out great journalism.
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/2/noam_chomsky_opposing_iran_nuclear_deal
https://www.youtube.com/user/1worldcitizen
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vezv1c78WDE
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/3/3/chomsky_on_snowden_why_nsa_surveillance
http://www.democracynow.org/2014/11/14/russell_brand_on_revolution_fighting_inequality
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/14/new-zealand-john-key-spying-glenn-greenwald
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/15/moment-truth-greenwald-dotcom-snowden-assange-new-zealand-john-key
Didn’t “long nose” johnny boy key say he would resign if . . . . . . . .
How can we hold him accountable after listening to the above two links ??
How can any sane person defend him or his “out of touch” gov.t ???
Anyone want to start an impeachment process or something equivalent?
https://firstlook.org/theintercept/2015/03/09/new-zealand-prime-minister-promised-resign-country-shown-engage-mass-surveillance-now-retracts-vow/
User-name Nehemia Wall, please consider yourself on vacation from this site for a week.
Several of your posts have been deleted as they are abusive toward those who participate in, or administer this site. Your style has descended into little more than trolling.
You are a guest here, and as such, expected to be reasonably civil in your behaviour.
Abusing those who pay the bills is bad form and will not be tolerated.
If you attempt to keep posting under another User-name, you can expect your temporary suspension to be permanent.
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