Summer is over, March is here. For some, (Tony Abbott, this means you) the Ides of March have come. For others (John Key, this means you), this war heralds the end of the golden weather and a winter of unprecedented discontent.
On the box this morning, the PM outlined what could only be called a ‘kill and run’ strategy in Iraq.
First, any response that didn’t involve killing was not an option. Humanitarian aid may help the Iraqis but it won’t help our friends and killing is the currency of our club membership. So humanitarian aid is out. Second, everyone accepts that military intervention never works. In fact, all the evidence suggests it makes matters worse. For this reason, the PM has come up with a plan that limits New Zealand contribution to making matters worse. We will send only a tiny contingent to assist with the killing and we will send them for only two years. So that’s the plan: stay onside with our friends by sending only a very tiny force to help with the killing for only two very short years. And then we’re out of there. Mission Accomplished. What could possibly go wrong?
Put another way, the PM accepts that Iraq is a piranha pool. And we all know trying to kill piranhas by jumping in their pool has never worked. But because our friends are jumping in again, we are obliged to jump in too. But rest assured, only a tiny few will be jumping in and those few will only be exposed to the piranhas for two years. After two years, we get out of the pool and come home. Mission Accomplished. What could possibly go wrong?
Put another way, the PM has committed New Zealand to a war George Bush started with all the king’s horses and all the king’s men but did not win. Having lost then, we sign up to the same losing strategy and join the same unwinnable war but, and this is the genius of John Key, only for two years and only with a tiny military contingent. Mission Accomplished. What could possibly go wrong?
Does it matter? In the NZ Herald, Mike Hosking said it was a ‘brave and honourable’ call. “History shows us that former US Secretary of Defence, Donald Rumsfeld, was fully expecting to be hailed a hero and a liberator when he rolled into Baghdad. Recent history shows Chuck Hagel, one of Rumsfeld’s successors, got the shock of his life at just how sophisticated, ruthless and well-financed the current enemy are. They defined the conflict, they told us how it was all going to unfold, and look what happened. Look what’s still happening. But through it all, despite it all, we must play our part. It is the right, honourable and only thing to do.”
“Look what happened. Look what’s still happening”. Hosking has no sense of cause and effect. For him, ignoring facts and history is “the right, honourable and only thing to do” What part of ‘warmongering propaganda leading to devastation and calamity’ does he not understand to write such rubbish? Though we won a seat on the UN Security Council, we have squandered that opportunity to assist the innocent in Iraq and forge a lasting peace and have instead taken sides in a civil war. Instead of addressing the complex sectarian causes behind the conflict, we are embroiled in its symptomatic bloodshed. Perversely, fatally, we have opted for the only response guaranteed to fail: another military engagement in Iraq, a tiny contribution of blunt force, some useless little lethal drops for this bucket of blood. How brave or honourable is this plan with no prospect of peace for them and every risk of war for us? Does that sound brave and honorable? Doesn’t that sound like the worst of all possible worlds: no prospect of peace: every risk of war? War in Iraq, Mike! Unsanctioned by the United Nations or even our own parliament. Does that sound brave and honorable? War, declared with all the courage and moral clarity required to risk the lives of other people’s children and spend their money.
In the NZ Herald, Fran O’Sullivan writes that ‘John Key is doing the right thing in Iraq.’ Painting him as “a craven servant of the White House – a United States lapdog happy to send New Zealand troops into harm’s way to serve America’s Middle East interests” is “an outrageously naive and insulting allegation” that will ” leave John Key smarting”. Fran makes no mention of the fact that the PM’s decision will leave a lot of people dead. She berates the New Zealand body politic – and journalists – for not rising above “the reflexive anti-Americanism that remains embedded here despite successive bi-partisan measures by Helen Clark’s and Key’s governments to normalise relations with Washington and look at the wider picture before casting their stones.” For Fran, it seems the stone casting has already reached these shores. What is outrageous and insulting is that she is the one who refuses to look at the wider picture. We were anti-America’s last invasion of Iraq and, as history has proved, rightly so. The wider picture, Fran, shows that John Key is doing the wrong thing in Iraq.
A defining act is concealed a meaningless gesture. Those few troops represent a necessary statement to old friends and a never-to-be-forgotten introduction to new enemies. Under this Prime Minister, New Zealand stands for war not peace. He sends us to Iraq to stand beside our friends and help out with the killing’. How brave and honourable is that, Mr Hosking? How brave and honourable is that?
Call me gutless, but I agree with Russel Norman: “When it comes to Western military interventions in Iraq, New Zealand and the world has been there. We have done that. It did not work. It was a mess. If we want to find lasting peace in the Middle East, we need to be a voice of justice. We need to be a voice for human rights and democracy. This means we have to have the courage of our convictions, to tell the head of the club, the great nation of the United States of America, that it is time to wean ourselves off cheap oil and it is time to support genuine peace, democracy, and human rights in the Middle East.”
Call me gutless, but I agree with John Armstrong: John Key is not winning the debate: “The essential problem is with the training role. No one has any confidence it will make even a skerrick of difference to what ultimately happens in Iraq. If that is the case, the deployment becomes nothing more than a manufactured exercise in flag-waving designed to satisfy the Americans, rather than dealing to Isis. Surely the days when New Zealand was so compliant and so submissive to Washington’s wishes are long over. But it seems not.”
Declaring this country a nuclear-free zone was a brave and honorable call. Glibly and without purpose or principle, John Key has let the war genie out of the bottle. Like Dean Barker, I’m gutted.
As usual, those who paint war as a ‘brave and honourable’ thing are those who never have to don battle gear; pick up a gun; and head off to hell…
That is for the children of other people, usually the poor.
As for the Middle East, it seems Key has won finally managed to slake his thirst for our military involvement in that quagmire of sectarian violence; greed for oil; and super-power meddling.
Question: when the first coffins roll of the RNZAF planes again, will Key attend the funeral(s) of our fallen soldiers – or will he again be required to attend a “previous engagement”? How many games of baseball can his son play that demand Key’s priority?
Two years from now Frank, just before the next election, John Key will have an impromptu meeting with the training troops in Camp Taji (or in a greenscreen room at Weta Workshop) and make a grand gesture of “bringing the troops home – Mission Accomplished – 4 term Prime Ministership in the bag – boom!”
Dulce et decorum est, pro patria mori…..is found on the memorial archway at the entrance of Otago Boys’ High School, in Dunedin. It is a sweet and beautiful thing, to die for one’s country…
It is often the pity that leaders send other people’s children into war, instead of themselves and their own offspring and do not respect, or follow the lesser known Latin phrase:
Et quod mirum est fortiter aliquid pro patria et super domum ducere in proelium et ex adverso et doloris participem glandes vicem eorum .
It is a brave and wonderful thing for me and my family to lead my countrymen into battle, from the front and share the bullets and their pain vicariously with them…
And think, Mr Key, a decorated war-hero, returning from Camp Taji after leading your men and your family into battle, would be a shoe-in for 4 terms as PM, the first time ever?
‘Mission accomplished “
If you dont want to be sent to war, dont join the military
Dan – if you don’t want to be exposed to anti-war sentiment, don’t frequent a left-wing blog.
Frank, fair comment. I do take issue that you have said ” That is for the children of other people, usually the poor” I cannot accept that at all, and I speak from very close experience, but yes, the left has always been more pacifist. I guess my mistake was/is thinking that blogs were a forum for debate, as opposed to a platform of similar minded people expressing similar ideas. Thanks for taking the time to reply. Regards, Dan
If you have no mind of your own then vote National, you will be in good company
@ Dan – re your statement about joining the military.
My interpretation of the purpose of the NZ military is to serve *Queen and Country*. To defend NZ from foe and threat.
How is sending NZ troops to a conflict in a far off land, which has nothing to do with NZ, to satisfy a US initiated fight club, living up to that statement?
It’s not. In fact, Key aligning NZ with US foreign policy here, is jeopardizing NZ and all Kiwis’ safety, whether they be at home or elsewhere in the world.
Because so far, we have not been threatened. However, now thanks to Key, that situation could change!
Dan – it was shown in previous US wars that soldiers came predominantly from poor back grounds – and in one clip (forgotten the title), a politician could not hide the initial shock horror on his face when asked if his off spring would enlist. In NZ, the forces do offer a career opportunity for those who don’t have many other prospects – it can be the first step leading to a career outside the forces. And the reason they don’t have many other prospects is that for whatever reason, they come from lower socio economic backgrounds. So yes, if you don’t want to go to war, don’t join the military – but some are not as fortunate to have that choice. And I don’t respond as a left/right thing – I respond from what I think we all want – a fair and inclusive society.
Interestingly, the Herald has determined “Debate on this article is now closed” on Hoskings column. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=11408021
They wish.
Before debate was closed Frank one classic pithy comment by Cake Tiger – 11:17 AM Thursday, 26 Feb 2015 summed it up the best:
“The PM braying at other MPs to “get some guts!” If Key had any, maybe he would fancy a stint on the front line in [Camp Taji] in Iraq? We can manage without him for a few weeks.”
…thought I would re-print it here before the Herald deletes it
or even better
“So Mike you are being kitted out to go with the troops? Ah, thought not. Jo Marshall – New Plymouth – 11:17 AM Thursday, 26 Feb 2015
Enough said about the warmonger and the warmonger’s apprentice with their respective remora lips strategically placed for maximum mutual parasitic benefit.
I’ve come to realise , mainly through a perverse and blood thirsty media , slasher films , vile novels on human misery disguised as ‘ thought provoking and deep ‘ and a wildly dysfunctional society bred from all of the above that, those few at the top of the shit pile are there because they’re good at who they’ve become .
Joyfully evil and braying for the next round of perversities that cause misery and death and if they can make money from that ? Win , win .
” Brave and honourable ” ? Is it ‘ brave and honourable to allow ones self to be swindled into dying for their dubious causes or is it blindingly stupid to allow ourselves to be dragged into a nightmare of their making for their psychopathic pleasures ?
Since hosking writes such crap ? Then he’s a dangerous little fucker and should go. His poisons will touch more than a few and pretty soon you’ll have boat loads of dopy kids heading off to a conflict they know nothing about . Hell bent on doing a ‘ brave and honourable ‘ thing .
A ‘brave and honourable’ thing to do might be that when you next see hoskings out and about , you kick him in his expensive little balls .
John Key will risk soldiers lives and put NZ in danger by supporting US war,the reason is he believes he improves his position in the top level when he leaves NZ, which its to be hoped he does shortly before the TPP is meant to be signed.
If people read alternative media ,ie Forbidden Knowledge, it says US has trained and implemented ISIS in Iraq, they send weapons and supplies to assist then in combating the Syrian government,which has always been behind the invasion. Hooking other countries to get involved “because its the honorable thing to do” is just to show everyone supports the US, leaders of other countries may do this and crackpot journalists of National persuasion but not generally the people.
Saying its anti American to question US involvement is rubbish , the people of America are not to blame,its the people at the top trying to
control the world and take all the wealth it can steal.
2 year troop commitment! For a nanosecond short-term thinker like John Key that must be a lifetime but golly gee it coincides with the 2017 election year doesn’t it? Who would have thought?
Send the troops over, blow something up, shoot something, payback the White House for the golf games and the photo op’s with the Prez, praise be for the armament manufacturing shares, punt that the whole stinking middle east mess is over by then (forgetting the previous 100 years of failure), return the troopy’s to NZ “victorious” or far more likely not but keep saying its a winner over and over via lickspittle’s like Hosking and deluded octogenarian’s like O’Sullivan, maybe another book from Roughan and bingo, win the election.
Playing roulette with other people’s lives for personal gain, you real man you John! Its deeply cynical but deeply John Key and National!
The “…PM has committed New Zealand to a war George Bush started with all the king’s horses and all the king’s men…”
They aren’t the king’s men though – they are the men of ordinary people. But the people who would be king, sitting on their white chargers on safe, distant hills say, “They signed up for it, they’re soldiers, that’s what they want to do and expect to do.”
So Mr Key’s son and daughter won’t be there, Mr Hosking’s sons or daughters won’t be there, neither the sons and daughters of the gung-ho ones peeing in the PM’s “up-and-at-’em” pocket. They want others to carry out their distorted plan of keeping themselves safe.
What all the king’s horses and all the king’s men won’t be able to put together again is the wreckage of a ruined reputation for being moderate, sensible and reasoned.
@ PETE – well said there.
Another point. Didn’t the war mongering, war criminal US President GW Bush dodge the draft call up in the 1960s?
I remember being proud to be a NZer when we stood up to the yanks over the nuclear issue. It was a brave move, but we stuck by our principles. Now we seem to be little more than a US battalion without the funding. Our troops on deployment have to borrow basic essentials from other forces (mostly US) because we can’t really afford to be there. Pathetic.
I’d be proud to bring humanitarian aid to the region. That would be the proud and honorable thing to do.
We won’t have to ‘borrow’ too many things off the americans. It seems they’ve already been supplied. Why are our navy vessels bristling with brand new, state of the art technology – gifted from the americans?
Are they nuclear? Or just nuclear-tipped ammunition?
Depleted Uranium – not nuclear, as such, but very heavy with residual radioactivity – so if you don’t get ’em first time, you get their descendants a little later……
Many of those who have provided humanitarian aid to the region have ended up with their heads being cut off
I can’t imagine there is a huge queue for this role, unfortunately
The sycophantic support of Hosking and O’Sullivan knows no bounds. Previously Fran has actually written a couple of pieces critical of Key & Co, but these are usually as a critique of their actions when they are politically damaging, rather than morally and ethically wrong. Hosking of course is a tried and true brown-noser of the first order, he wouldn’t say a bad thing about Key even if his life depended on it.
As the author of this post points out the consequences of their toadying are that people actually believe their tripe and will think that going to war in Iraq is an ‘honourable and noble’ thing to do. This couldn’t be farther from the truth.
Hosking and O’Sullivan are propagandists, nothing more.
If we want to be a voice for democracy, then do we allow those that do not want democracy – namely the supporters of Sharia Law – a voice in our country?
A voice of course but to be viable a democracy requires more than a vote. It requires civil organisations and institutions that are independent from the state; e.g.. the judiciary, media, NGO’s. It requires a constitution and traditions that respect the rights of minorities. All of this must be founded on human rights. However where a voice or a minority is engaged in an abuse of others rights then the rights will be relative.
So many times on this and other forum one constantly needs to remind well meaning people of this – absolutes are inherently dangerous even in the realm of human rights – tolerance of intolerance is cowardice / appeasement.
As per usual I will cop flack but I ask the critics to read Popper on the Paradox of Tolerance. Even Rawles who is very strongly a cultural relativist concedes that society has a reasonable right of self-preservation that supersedes the principle of tolerance: sic……. “While an intolerant sect does not itself have title to complain of intolerance, its freedom should be restricted only when the tolerant sincerely and with reason believe that their own security and that of the institutions of liberty are in danger.”
I have a very low opinion of our government, its leader and the parrots such as Hosking who continually squawk the require words. However albeit with the best of intentions Mr Prast is in error.
Since I firmly believe Hosking is all about brand Hosking, I have to believe that the majority of his fan-base (which, given that Seven Sharp is CONSISTENTLY in the top five most watched programs in any given week while CambellLive doesn’t even rank in the top 10, is not insubstantial) endorses this message. I say this with relative confidence, since I have to assume brand Hosking has done his due diligence and internal polling clearly shows that this is indeed what NZers (i.e. Hoskingites) want to hear from him. Hosking won’t do anything to harm his popularity which directly translates to his paycheck.
Brand Hosking shite, is still Hosking shite.
A turd is still a turd, no matter how much it is polished.
I never said it wasn’t. Just pointing out my Hosking theory – i.e. that Hosking merely reflects his “fan’s” opinions, saying whatever he needs to so he can keep buying Ferrari’s. Given how (inexplicably) popular he appears to be, I dare say the majority of NZers think The John Key is doing “the right, honourable and only thing to do”. I’ll believe majority opinion has turned on The John Key when Hosking starts to criticise rather than endorse him.
Hmm imagine Hosking in Campbell’s slot then, seeing as the main reason people watch (what is the name of that show?) as they have watched the news on One, being completely unaware that there is actually another news hour on another channel.
@ Nitrium –
Just goes to confirm the fact NZers are becoming more brain dead by the day, through the mindless rubbish they watch on the TV!
The more intelligent amongst us, watch Campbell Live at the same time the Hosking is on.
The more intelligent among watch neither, to save us from pulling our hair out in frustration at our supposed “Fourth estate”.
@ Daniel Venema – Bingo!
However that said, I do think Campbell Live has more class over the soppy fluff the Hosking puts up!
Gosh Keyster will have us all his CIA watch list (or the unofficial list added now) for speaking out about his “glorious war he has joined up to.
Who Bankrolls the Islamic State? Private Donors in Gulf Oil States Cited as Key to ISIS Success?
http://www.democracynow.org/2015/2/26/who_is_bankrolling_the_islamic_state
Criminals all.
Oh Dear why are things not black and white?
Firstly I am surprised that Mike Hoskins; a) has a column and b) why anyone would bother reading it as the only conceivable use to which it could be put would entail a hole a piece of string and the long-drop.
Secondly, Fran is a serious bother as while I am mostly in disagreement with her simplistic economic / world views every now and then she is quite perceptive. The observation that sections of our political and journalistic community have an unthinking “reflexive anti-Americanism” is undeniable and very sad as often it comes from those one otherwise associates with far greater depth and clarity of knowledge and thought. Guys and Girls what are the feasible alternatives to the US for all its flaws – perhaps at times it would be a good leveller to consider the positives of that country and its effect on our world?
Thirdly – Of course western involvement in the Middle east is a succession of blunders (mind you the same could be said of the Egyptian an Turkish efforts in the not to distant past), of course the neo-conservative clique leadership in the US, UK, Australia amongst others should be held to account for the war crimes but this does not justify letting ISIS play its murderous game with impunity.
Going into Iraq to train the Shia army is both a waste of time / effort and quite probably an assist to a furtherance of their own version of murder and oppression.
The invasion was stupidity and hubris in the extreme, going in and clobbering the Taliban was justified but staying was not. Going in and exterminating ISIS vermin and exiting quickly is an idea with merit.
Did Dear Leader ask Australia’s Dear Leader about the Pacific Solution? Will it be able to cope with even more desperate people fleeing the turmoils of our creation?
Will our so-civilised neighbour be doing much of anything to get little kids out of detention limbo and into a much healthier way and place of living before the next floods arrive?
http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/cartoon/2014/may/12/first-dog-border-force
For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction…It’s in the small print of the footnotes to history.
Really one must wonder about the truth behind those ‘so-called’ TV ratings and polls, even election results, these days. We have a government and MSM that have proven they can’t be trusted. They both have hidden agendas. I for one, don’t buy into any of it any more. Far to many lies all round for my liking.
None of you kids with your small focus (still only on the small picture)
can even grasp the common link. The Worlds demise.
( Countryboy might click.. since he’s rather ahead in understanding)
Hint: the photo = clue. (although missing is that Whaleblob creep)
What do they all have in common?
Their Tribe own &
Run the entire world..- The Banking system. The Media. The Internet, (as in Facebook/Google..) the Medical System, publishing companies, indeed just about EVERYTHING by now.
And they want everyone else to just die.
@ Cassie – you are on to it. Well put.
What could possibly go wrong? Indeed.
Well Green-On-Blue attacks for one.
In a bloody and ruthless internicene civil war where no hold is given where after more than a decade of continual blood letting, nobody can tell for sure where the dividing lines are, or know what secret grudges are harbourd by the young men who came of age during this conflict and who our military trainers are meant arm, and then train to kill their fellow countrymen, where after more than ten long years of unceasing war and senseless bloodshed where death is often inexplicable and random, where you learn to trust no one and it is becoming difficult to tell who is on who’s side. Many if not all Iragis will feel somewhere in their bones that this calamity was brought on them and their families by the foreigners in their midst training them to again kill their fellow countrymen.
In this atmosphere Green-On-Blue attacks are almost certain to be one of those things to go wrong.
And guess who are the first victims of Green-On-Blue attacks?
Yep, you guessed it, their trainers. Most Green-on-Blue attacks have occurred in training camps.
So when the first NZ military trainer comes back in a box, victim of a Green-On-Blue attack, will John Key tell again of how brave he was to send this young New Zealander into harm’s way, so that he could be part of the club?
What Is A ‘Green-On-Blue’ Attack?
Green-on-blue data remains “classified” by ISAF
Now when I was a young man I carried me pack , and I lived the free life of a rover
From the Murrays green basin to the dusty outback , well, I waltzed my Matilda all over
Then in 1915 , my country said son, Its time you stopped rambling there’s work to be done
So they gave me a tin hat and they gave me a gun , and they marched me away to the war
And the band played Waltzing Matilda as the ship pulled away from the quay
And amidst all the cheers, the flag waving and tears, we sailed off for Gallipolli
And how well I remember that terrible day , how our blood stained the sand and the water
And of how in that hell, that they called Suvla Bay , we were butchered like lambs to the slaughter
Johnny Turk he was waiting he had primed himself well . He shower’d us with bullets and he rained us with shell…
And in five minutes flat he ‘d blown us all to hell
Nearly blew us right back to Australia
But the band played Waltzing Matilda, when we stopped to bury our slain
We buried ours , the Turks buried theirs , then we started all over again
And those that were left , well we tried to survive , in that mad world of blood death and fire
And for ten weary weeks , I kept myself alive though around me the corpses piled higher
Then a big Turkish shell knocked me arse over head , and when I woke up in my hospital bed
And saw what it had done , well I wished I was dead. Never knew there was worse things than dyin’
For I’ll go no more Waltzing Matilda , all around the green bush far and free
To hump tent and pegs – a man needs both legs , no more Waltzing Matilda for me
So they gathered the crippled , the wounded, the maimed , and they shipped us back home to Australia
The legless, the armless, the blind , the insane , those proud wounded heroes of Suvla
And as our ship pulled into Circular Quay , I looked at the place where my legs used to be
And thanked Christ there was no one waiting for me , to grieve , and to mourn , and to pity
But the band played Waltzing Matilda , as they carried us down the gangway
But nobody cheered , they just stood and stared , and they turned their faces away
And so now every April , I sit on me porch , and I watch the parades pass before me
And I see my old comrades , how proudly they march, reviving old dreams of past glories
And the old men march slowly , old bones stiff and sore. They’re tired old heroes from a forgotten war
And the young people ask – ‘ What are they marching for ? ‘ And I ask myself the same question
But the band plays Waltzing Matilda , and the old men still answer the call
But as year follows year , more old men disappear . Some day no one will march there at all
Waltzing Matilda , Waltzing Matilda , who’ll come a-Waltzing Matilda with me?
And their ghosts may be heard as they march by that billabong , who’ll come a-Waltzin Matilda with me?
Song by the Pogues.
Think on that Hoskin before you well wish others besides yourself to go off and spill their blood for your lazy good for nothing fat arse , mate.
@ Wild Kapito – Well stated there my friend.
Never a truer song has been written..makes me cry every time …especially when sung with such guts by Shane MacGowan
thanks Katipo for the reminder
Such a clever lad, Simon – perfectly put. I knew you were on the same page as me (i.e. mesmerised by the sheer awfulness and brazen propaganda of Fox News) when I heard the execrable O’Reilly casually sweep your comment aside. That insult to the communications industry would be a natural home for the likes of Mister Hosking.
Anyone who works as tirelessly as Hosking to look as though he’s just fallen out of bed is an affront to all of us who are genuine scruffs.
As an ex grunt, I was on standby for the Bosnia episode. I was willing to defend my country and my family before any politician. Obama and Key have mutilated the fact that our military are not big enough to go overseas to fight for a club Key has a membership to, while he barks orders for the wrong reasons to the wrong people. Perhaps Key should take a dose of his own mouthy opinions and slap his own ears with it.
Key has no military knowledge, so he should not be making decisions that are out of his league, especially without any mandate or consultation of the armed forces, or putting it to a parliamentary vote, and invoving the opinions of the public. But that’s why Key did what he did, because he knew he would lose the power and the vote.
Palma non sine pulvere – no honour without effort, unfortunately for Key, he thrives on proving himself entirely dishonourable. He won’t go over to Iraq without a full military platoon guard to protect him. His wired up goons won’t be enough.
If John Key had any guts, he would have told “the club” that we would not be providing any military assistance.
I agree and disagree with points made in this article.
John Key is far from ‘brave’; he is simply following the lead set by his chums Abbott and Obama, who he works for and with. It isn’t an independent decision, he isn’t risking his welfare; there is no credit due him in my mind. Has he ever expressed concern about disadvantaged/persecuted peoples in even NZ, let alone the MIDDLE EAST? I can’t imagine Key acting out of ‘honour’, either, not a guy who has the record he does, shared with Collins, Slater and co.
Irrespective of this, the matter of the ‘honour’ in joining a fight against ISIS is beyond dispute. Past consequences of military engagements may be mixed at best, but this isn’t a reason for inaction in the face of this new brand of religious savagery. It IS a reason, however, for strategic caution and calculation, for becoming more efficient in engaging this new battle.
James – is there really any sane justification for continued war and continued terror either? Who are the real terrorists? How much hate do you believe has been building up in the middle east against these massive killings and the drone attacks blowing to bits grandmas and children in their vege. patches? Against the terror that the US and UK and others bring to countries they need to get the heck out of. Stop the terror obama etc. and watch Isis diminish and do something else with their time and energy. War begets more war. War mongering for profits is disgusting. Why James do we need any more new battles or any more new wars? Why not build peace and get out of the countries that we continue to bomb and then have the guts to call ourselves terrorists. The US is the biggest terrorist in the world. All over in the US you see bumper stickers saying “We support our troops”. Lets support our troops worldwide to come home and put the body bags in storage and give other countries the dignity and time to heal from the devastation of war/terror.
http://www.debate.org/opinions/are-americans-the-real-terrorists
These three smiling half drunk mini wits in the above photo have very little clue about what is really going on. They think they are leaders but what a joke. Birds of a feather. I can not listen to Mike for more than a few minutes before laughing out loud and switching channels. John Key, the self proclaimed village idiot, is such a proven elitist crim liar and so rude that he is not worth much of our time listening to him. What an embarrassment as a leader ! We deserve so much better.
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