Labour’s online voice have put the case for war in Iraq. In what must be the worst argued blog in the history of The Standard, the new author also attacks me for conflating the issues.
Unbelievable.
The argument that The Standard blogger puts is that ‘something must be done’ and that it is a morally just thing to re-invade Iraq this time to fight Islamic fascism.
What a load of cobblers.
Of course something should be done about ISIS, the thing that should be done is a major crackdown on Saudi Arabia and Turkish funding of ISIS. ISIS are there because of the power vacuum created when America invaded Iraq last time for weapons of mass destruction that didn’t exist.
The allies that The Standard blogger wants us to fight alongside are as barbaric as the forces we are supposedly fighting.
When The Standard are promoting war as a Left wing response to ISIS, the trundle to the middle within Labour might be occurring at an even more alarming speed than previously thought.
To be fair, he isn’t getting any support from those commenting on the article.
the Turks are hypocrites in this matter and the Saudi’s must have the most repressive society in the world where half their population are denied almost every human right. Our other allies in the area are Iraq itself, a mire of corruption and incompetence and Iran, who in some weird way are starting to look moderate and reliable by comparison.
Despite this we will openly send our military advisors to train the largely phantom Iraqi army and quietly send the SAS to do what they are trained for, kill anyone they are allowed to, whether we are officially at war or not.
Oh yes and by the way most of those coffins in your post should have an Iraqi flag on them and be smaller in size to fit women and children
Don’t forget trials for high treason for those in the Yankie high command who also gave aid, training and weaponry to the enemy
https://r1016132.wordpress.com/2015/01/21/none-dare-call-it-treason-who-armed-isisal-qada/
Something must be done indeed
I thought the calls for revenge allowed us to call these a stone age people, now that key and labour is telling us its us that will be carrying this out what are we.
It would be more accurate to say that; one blogger on TS made a post stating the case, as he sees it, for joining the imminent war in Iraq and nearby countries. The vast majority of comments to this post (my own included) have disagreed with his position.
Calling it “the worst argued blog in the history of The Standard” is a bit extreme as there have been some shockers (Pagani anyone?). I suspect that TRP may be playing devil’s advocate a bit. Pablo on Kiwipolitico had a better argued case, but conflates; “Responsibility to Protect” established by the UN after Rwanda, with; the clusterfuck that we’ve let ShonKey sign us up for.
http://www.kiwipolitico.com/2015/02/media-link-to-the-point-on-nz-and-is/
How is it proposed we crack down on people in Turkey and Saudi Arabia funneling money to ISIS short of military action? Not to mention its a bit late now considering the size they have grown too.
Yeah – both of these countries are a bit out of our league for crude demonstrations. You can be fairly sure that both are monitoring ISIS more closely than any NZ spook could dream of doing – they’ve people on the inside.
Saudi’s current oil pumping is a central plank of the US punishment of Putin’s Ukraine insurgency, and the soft world economy means they kind of need the cash flow in any case.
Both countries are taking what they believe is the best response to the ISIS threat. Training Iraqi armed forces is not super effective – drone interdiction might suppress their mobile operations somewhat though.
The finances require a move a bit like that taken against al Qaida, coordinated banking sanctions, these are presently underway.
There is little or nothing NZ can add to this, except on the humanitarian front – not Key’s strong point, but one of NZ’s.
Knowing your ABCs
The Voice Of Treason
A leading Right Wing Union official from a Labour Party affiliated union, used to write at The Standard under the pseudonym, THE VOICE OF REASON
In January 2012 the Ports of Auckland management locked out the Maritime Union members in a campaign to force them to leave the union, only offering their jobs back if they agreed to become casual contractors. At the same time the Port management also began hiring non-union contractors to replace those union members that didn’t submit to the companies demand that they leave the union and become a casual contractor.
Unexpectedly (for the Port Management) the majority of the Port workers stuck with the union and refused to go back to work under the conditions stipulated by the management and instead set up a protest camp outside the port gates to highlight their case.
On January 16 2012 a Headline Post appeared in The Standard attacking the Maritime Union for fighting against deunionisation at the Port, The Standard article argued that the Port Workers did not deserve the support of the wider Left.
The main theme of this article published in The Standard, was that the Labour and the Green Party, in particular, should not support the wharfies fight against de-unionisation at the Ports of Auckland. This article posted in the Standard, which essentially, attacked the Maritime union, and sought to isolate them, was entitled; “1951 it ain’t for now”
1951 it ain’t, for now
Written by an anonymous Right Wing Labour Party Member who writes under the pseudonym Eddie. The Standard post 1951 it ain’t, for now, argued that the Port Workers should get no support from the Labour Party, (and by extension no support from the Labour Party affiliated unions.)
In this dirty piece of attack journalism, the anonymous EDDIE, deliberately misrepresented the Ports of Auckland dispute as a petty argument over minor percentage difference on a wage increase. The truth of course was that this dispute was that the union members were resisting their jobs being turned over into casualised non-union contractor positions. To put lie to EDDIE’s claim that the Port dispute was about a dispute over a wage increase, the Ports had actually offered these workers a 10% increase to leave the union.
Misrepresenting the Ports Of Auckland dispute as a minor dispute over a minor difference in a wage increase, meant, according to EDDIE, that the port workers did not warrant wider support. In another lying paragraph that also misrepresented the real nature of the dispute, EDDIE wrote, because this dispute only involved 300 workers, is another reason that the locked out Ports of Auckland workers do not warrant the support of the (wider) Labour movement.
Turning on its head the old union motto of, an injury to one is an injury to all, EDDIE also argued that supporting the wharfies would give the National government an excuse to attack the rest of the Labour Movement.
Oooh, resorting to porkies, Pat? I changed the spelling of my name out of respect for the tangata whenua on Waitangi day three years back. I never posted anything negative about the wharfies and I backed them all the way. Weirdly, that’s actually evident in your link to EDDIE’s post, so I guess you didn’t actually read the comments. I’m not right wing, and I’m not EDDIE. Grow up, son.
Maybe so, but your post in favour of military intervention because of ISIS is very very wrongheaded.
Te Reo Putake (the voice of reason) is a shill who has been trolling the Standard for years. He only ever deals in emotional attacks and denial. No single sensible thought comes out of his pen and the emotive drivel about the Franco years in Spain are just that.
I honestly do not understand what is happening at the Standard but I do know that by allowing this miscreant to become a writer and possibly a moderator I fear for what will become of the Standard. For them to allow this kind of drivel to be elevated to a post is just hideous! I wonder what people might have on Iprent (Not very politically savvy at the best of times) to perhaps have forced him onto it.
Knowing your ABCs
The Voice Of Treason
A leading Right Wing Union official from Labour Party affiliated union, used to write at The Standard under the pseudonym, THE VOICE OF REASON
In January 2012 the Ports of Auckland management locked out the Maritime Union members in a campaign to force them to leave the union, only offering their jobs back if they agreed to become casual contractors. At the same time the Port management also began hiring non-union contractors to replace those union members that didn’t submit to the companies demand that they leave the union and become a casual contractor.
Unexpectedly (for the Port Management) the majority of the Port workers stuck with the union and refused to go back to work under the conditions stipulated by the management and instead set up a protest camp outside the port gates to highlight their case.
On January 16 2012 a Headline Post appeared in The Standard attacking the Maritime Union for fighting against deunionisation at the Port, The Standard article argued that the Port Workers did not deserve the support of the wider Left.
The main theme of this article published in The Standard, was that the Labour and the Green Party, in particular, should not support the wharfies fight against de-unionisation at the Ports of Auckland. This article posted in the Standard, which essentially, attacked the Maritime union, and sought to isolate them, was entitled; “1951 it ain’t for now”
1951 it ain’t, for now
Written by an anonymous Right Wing Labour Party Member who writes under the pseudonym Eddie. The Standard post 1951 it ain’t, for now, argued that the Port Workers should get no support from the Labour Party, (and by extension no support from the Labour Party affiliated unions.)
In this dirty piece of attack journalism, the anonymous EDDIE, deliberately misrepresented the Ports of Auckland dispute as a petty argument over minor percentage difference on a wage increase. The truth of course was that this dispute was that the union members were resisting their jobs being turned over into casualised non-union contractor positions. To put lie to EDDIE’s claim that the Port dispute was about a dispute over a wage increase, the Ports had actually offered these workers a 10% increase to leave the union.
Misrepresenting the Ports Of Auckland dispute as a minor dispute over a minor difference in a wage increase, meant, according to EDDIE, that the port workers did not warrant wider support. In another lying paragraph that also misrepresented the real nature of the dispute, EDDIE wrote, because this dispute only involved 300 workers, is another reason that the locked out Ports of Auckland workers do not warrant the support of the (wider) Labour movement.
Turning on its head the old union motto of, an injury to one is an injury to all, EDDIE also argued that supporting the wharfies would give the National government an excuse to attack the rest of the Labour Movement.
But why is the above relevant to a pro war post at The Standard written by another anonymous Labour Party Right Winger?
One of the main supporters of the scab line promoted by EDDIE at The Standard in 2012, was an anonymous commenter with the pseudonym THE VOICE OF REASON. When the MUNZ workers successfully resisted their mass sacking and returned victorious to their jobs with their heads high, – to avoid being linked to his treachery durng the dispute in supporting the sell out line of EDDIE. Immediately on the MUNZ workers undefeated return to their jobs, TVOR instantly changed his pseudonym from The Voice Of Reason (More accurately The Voice of Treason) to Te Reo Putake.
TE REO PUTAKE is VOICE OF REASON. VOICE OF REASON is TE REO PUTAKE
Chris Trotter has said that the line between Left and Right in this country does not run between National and Labour it runs down the middle of the Labour Party.
The obvious question is why is a so called Left website like The Standard publishing posts from Right wingers that fall on the Right side of that line?
My guess is that since the undemocratic coup that ousted David Cunliffe The Right inside the Labour Party known as the ABCs are now in the ascendant, both in the Labour Party and at The Standard.
This does not bode well for the future of the Labour Party or The Standard.
Why did you post the exact same overly long tract twice?
The Standard and Daily Blog have not collapsed in on themselves like online blackholes yet but they could well do if people don’t get a grip.
I agree that TRPs article is out there stuff–the working class and its allies should never participate in or support imperialist wars.
I am not keen on Keith Rankin’s surly revisionist take on economics either but it does not put me off most of the rest of the contributors at TBD.
It is pointless to apply a severe class measuring stick to the two blogs that were clearly not set up to be quasi marxist organisations. TBD is to my thinking an omnibus left blog, The Standard a left social democrat one.
TRP’s article on the Standard was not The Standard promoting war against Isis. As mentioned before the comments from Standard readers strongly indicates that we don’t agree with TRP. There have been other posts on the Standard that challenge or come out against NZ (and others) going to war on ISIS. Maybe TRP post wasn’t in keeping with how the left view this issue, but I guess The Standard in allowing that (however that happens) sparks debate and allows us to criticize further our views. As someone who hasn’t followed international politics much, this is helpful. I suspect there are quite a few lefties who think we should fight ISIS (know some myself), so it is helpful to me to have the pro case put up, and then hear (the overwhelmingly) con arguments.
As a regular Standard and Daily Blog reader I am finding it a little unfortunate that the left seems to be fighting with itself. I don’t know who or how this started re the Standard and The Daily Blog. But I would prefer it to stop. Please?
“When The Standard are promoting war” ???? WTF are you on about ?
It was one person’s opinion. You do remember this thing called free speech? You have often written on how vital it is to any dialogue in a democratic society.
If you actually read the post and the many many comments thereafter, you will see the post is met with a resoundingly strong call against going to war.
How about a little perspective in your ‘analysis’?
Something is being done. Kurdish anarchists of Kobane have been fighting ISIS since their incursion into northern Iraq and winning.
Can you please correct your title and some of your article Martyn. A blogger on the Standard does not necessarily reflect the views of the Standard as a whole, not does it necessarily reflect the views of the Labour Party as a whole.
Misrepresenting another website whom you should be working WITH not against is hardly helping your case, is it.
The issue is that we are assuming that the middle eastern culture is similar to our fair sense of play, but believe me this is not the case here.
If anyone can remember the issues surrounding the Vietnam campaign, just cast your mind back to what destroyed our chances of ever winning that war?
It was that we could never really identify who were our friends or our foe.
More of our solders died as a result of the failure to recognise who and where our enemy was.
During my time in the middle east during the 1970’s I found out that the general perception amongst the population was to firstly keep the element of surprise and deception from the opponent as the key weapon to win any campaign be it in war or peace.
This was virtually admitted in a speech given Friday by the Iraq Foreign minister on his visit here, as he explained that the Iraq military is now corrupted and therefore unreliable as a friend.
So we are fighting alongside yet another similar military campaign similar to Vietnam again are we?
This will bite when body bags are sent home as Vietnam was, because it was also where we really don’t know who really is our friend or foe.
Perhaps The Standard should have inserted this as an observation for perhaps not sending boots on the ground to another place where we don’t know who our friends really are.
It was one writer writing a blog post for The Standard and does not reflect the views of The Standard at all.
One wonders why it ended up posted on The Standard in the first place.
So if the post on Syria by TRP represents the Labour party and/or ‘the standard’ or whatever, then this one, logically, must do too, yes?
So, anyone running ‘the standard is Labour‘ line want to explain how the gulf between those two posts is bridged by those supposed Labour Party puppet masters who are peddling policy via the standard?
edit: long link as the embedding above doesn’t seem to have worked http://thestandard.org.nz/revolutionary-spain-revolutionary-syria-and-the-bastards-we-vote-for/
hi folx,
while we on the left keep giving each other blood noses and engaging in “i told you so” type carry on, the tories keep on with their march uninterrupted.
tppa, gcsb head resigns, dirty cop/mps, casino subsidies…
but we are too busy squabbling in the sand pit.
please, acknowledge that the left is a diverse, enthusiastic bunch and get it together, see whats happening (thanks beastie boys), unify and get stuck in to the real issues.
cheers.
[…] the same 4 weeks the Standard were making the case for war, inadvertently backing up rape threats so as to not annoy farmers, and strangling climate change […]
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