NZs new hobby – hating the poor

By   /   December 17, 2014  /   118 Comments

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How can you dismiss the hundreds of people clamouring at the doors of the City Mission? How ignorant, uneducated and stupid do you have to be to see the queue outside the City Mission and still insist that those families, desperate enough to stand there for hours on end to get a food parcel and hopefully an emergency food grant, are on some kind of benefit gravy train.

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Last week people queued at the doors of the Auckland City Mission. They are people that are living without enough income to afford the basics let alone the extras we as a society have come to expect at Christmas. Extras like presents for the children and a feed on Christmas Day. Some media came and asked them questions. The people standing, waiting, were forthcoming. They told their stories simply. They didn’t have enough. They were hoping for more. Some had been queueing since 4am. They were there because they were in need.

Many appeared cheerful, some were resolute and then there would have been the ones who did not wish to be filmed at all. I couldn’t help but scan the faces for people I know. People I have met during the year while working at AAAP that I hope are doing okay. I don’t want to see familiar faces. I’m hoping that for some, their situations have improved, but for the others whose situations remain the same, I hope that they are in the queue.

That was last week, but I hear the City Mission is still busy. So are we. It is the week before Christmas and the Beneficiary Advocates at Auckland Action Against Poverty are being run off their collective feet. Yesterday there were four advocates working and none of them had time to chat to me about this blog.They were all busy dealing with real people grappling with how they are going to put more food on the table. More than just a bowl of potato salad. Potato salad is cheap. So is homemade pav. The proof of poverty is not in the pudding.

The proof of poverty is in the protein.

Let me be clear. I have not spoken to a single beneficiary who is waiting for the butcher to call, alerting them to the delivery of their free range, hand reared, organic turkey. When times get tough the more standard response is ‘ we’re just having a barbie this year.’

Everyone expects sausages at a barbie.

Last week as the people formed orderly lines and waited for hours at the City Mission for a food parcel, the OECD released a report. Their report indicated that high and growing inequality reduces economic growth. New Zealand got a special mention in the report because of our rising inequality. The OECD report echoes the findings of other reports. There was a study from Victoria University, there was the documentary by Nigel Latta which resulted in my first blog for this site. The blog was called Inequality Glosses Over Poverty. There was all the work by Max Rashbrooke in 2013.

Meanwhile at the City Mission, Diane Robertson, the CEO for as many years as I can remember, stated that the numbers this year were three times what they were last year. Diane said the numbers, the stories and the desperation was overwhelming. This is also what we at AAAP have encountered this year.

Both John Key and Bill English dismissed the OECD report. Key has quite a history of denying inequality. Following his election win he did however state he wanted to reduce child poverty. Hmm. Colour me fucking puzzled? Denying inequality, dismissing the findings of report after report and yet admitting there might be some child poverty. Obviously someone is wrong.

I do not believe it is the plethora of reports that are wrong anymore than I believe that either Diane Robertson or I are exaggerating or lying about the number of people in need.

It’s climate change all over again. No matter how much evidence, how many reports are issued from institutes and organisations our government pays to be a member of, when the facts don’t fit, suddenly they are dismissed. I guess it is easy to dismiss a report. It is only numbers and graphs and on paper.

How can you dismiss the hundreds of people clamouring at the doors of the City Mission? How ignorant, uneducated and stupid do you have to be to see the queue outside the City Mission and still insist that those families, desperate enough to stand there for hours on end to get a food parcel and hopefully an emergency food grant, are on some kind of benefit gravy train. Anyone with an iota of common sense knows you don’t put gravy on barbecued sausages.

Cameron Slater suggested that. He wrote a blog called Pimping the Poor. In it he derides the people queuing for food. It is offensive, it is ill informed and it is disgusting. Meanwhile John Key and Bill English insist the OECD are wrong. Inequality is not a problem and neither is poverty. Maybe Key and Slater send texts to each other about it.

Today at AAAP we talked about how long we would be closed. Several of the volunteers have decided to work through the holiday, keeping the doors closed and trying to clear files from October. Like the City Mission this year we were overwhelmed.

When I was watching Campbell Live I scanned the queue and I couldn’t help but wonder if I would see a familiar face. Like the guy who had been laid off from a Labour Hire company due to his hearing, who was stood down by WINZ without an income because he couldn’t get a wage slip. The companies payroll was managed from Australia. We eventually managed to assist him and he eventually got a Job Seeker benefit approved. He was lucky he was living with an Aunt and only paying $180 board. His benefit was for $207 per week.

Welcome to life on the gravy train.

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118 Comments

  1. Odakyu-sen says:

    Wilde’s comment (19th Century England) is a little out of date

    If poverty is the result of inappropriate expenditure, and if the advice of “thrift” means “spend less inappropriately,” then the advice is valid.

    • countryboy says:

      Oscar Wilde is never out of date . And you @ Odakyu-sen can fuck off . Hopefully , and sooner rather than later , you and your deviant kind will be the ones out of date .

    • Odakyu-sen – No, poverty is usually the result of inappropriate income.

      That reality is probably harder for some to comprehend – especially those fortunate to be living comfortable lifestyles and earning good coin.

      • Kate Davis says:

        Yes careless spending of his $27 disposable income is the problem.

        • minnie says:

          Does his $180 board cover food & power and does he get an accommodation allowance on top!!!

          • downwithnats says:

            It can get boring eating carrots and baked beans eternally.

          • Anneleise Hall says:

            The reality is for that guy is that even if he is lucky enough that the board includes power phone and food (there is no accommodation supplement $207 is the basic allowance) he will have $27 pw for toothpaste, deodorant, razors, clothes, shoes, doctors, dentists, bus fares, constant fines fees and penalties you get when you can’t get places or pay on time, if he has children forget birthday/Xmas gifts – even cards postage, or a writing pad all cost money.
            You become socially isolated because you can’t afford travel of even a basic coffee in a cafe. Most people don’t like to turn up visiting empty handed too many times.
            For jobseeking forget newspapers, his board may not include internet so he needs to get to a library, so may need bus fare or a decent coat or shoes that don’t leak… Until you have had to face more than a few weeks of living like this you have no idea how depressing, stressful and demoralising it really is.

            And that just scratches the surface.

            Most beneficiaries have been consistent taxpayers who have fallen on hard times. And I mean real taxpayers – not the rich who rort the system loopholes.

            The vast majority of beneficiaries desperately want to work – and another hugely denied fact is many of our poor ARE WORKING but getting low wages or hours insufficient to meet basic needs and bills.
            Once you are in this cycle of scarcity and poverty it starts to create or exacerbate depression. If you don’t have developed and creative cooking skills it’s very hard to have a good diet, accommodation is luck of the draw. This creates more costs downstream through mental illness and health issues.
            The campaign to denigrate, invalidate, dehumanise and blame beneficiaries is one of our greatest shames as a nation, one of the others is to refuse to accept research, facts and evidence that creating situations where a huge percentage of our population is suffering needlessly due to a progression of expedient and egregious policies is harmful to all of us as a nation – as reported by the OECD.
            We need to stop these vitriolic and unfair attacks on some of our most marginalised and vulnerable citizens. Every human is precious – and in this climate don’t think it can’t happen to you. NZers need use their hearts, preferably followed by their brains.
            My thoughts on Cameron Slater are unprintable.

            • Mike says:

              Excellent post.

              It is bewildering to me that so many New Zealanders seeem to have been brainwashed by an habitual liar and his mates, into accepting that when some economic woe or bad financial situation occurs, it is quite acceptable and rational to lay the blame upon those who have the least influence on the economy and the least ability to defend themselves.

              I remember hearing someone say that John Key will be remembered as one of New Zealand’s greatest ever Prime Ministers and his legacy will be great. WTF!! His legacy?? I can’t think of one single outstanding (or even quite good) thing that Key has achieved for New Zealanders so far in 6 years as PM. Can anyone else?

              For me, John Key will hardly be remembered at all and certainly not for anything outstanding or new and game changing. For anyone to suggest he is one of our greatest PM’s is ridiculous.

              Even the last Labour government (who were hardly very hardcore left wing) under Helen Clarke introduced things like Kiwibank, Kiwisaver, The Cullen Fund, 4 weeks paid annual leave, the abolition of youth rates, WFF, etc,etc. What has this National government achieved or introduced for New Zealander’s? Oh yes, Tax cuts for the well off, not a single budget surplus in 6 years, an extra 70 or 80 billion in debt…why the fuck these idiots vote for him i just find bewildering.

      • Mike says:

        Am thinking you mean inadequate rather than inappropriate Frank. Regardless, I think it is more likely that inadequate income contributes to poverty and is the result of a broken system or a system that is designed to benefit a small percentage of the population rather than all of the population.

        Once poverty is created by the system it is allowed to continue to exist where it shouldn’t due to a small number of people with all of the money and all of the power refusing to allow the system to be changed and maintaining the status quo because it is better for them.

        Let’s say my entire wealth was $5,000 (I’m not even that wealthy…sigh) and someone said to me I’m going to take $4,500 off you and leave you with just $500 to your name, but by doing this world poverty will no longer exist, I can safely say i would joyfully write him a cheque for 4.5k on the spot, as would anybody, surely?

        Change the figures to someone worth 50 billion having 45 billion taken off them, leaving them with 5 billion to their name to end world poverty. They’d still be worth 5 billion and way richer than 99.99999% of the world’s population. surely 5 billion is enough to live quite comfortably on? In reality, 5 billion is no different to 50 billion in terms of your standard of living or ability to buy stuff, etc. Well, there are people in the world worth more than 50 billion.

        Yet poverty still exists.

        Or if any of us had a total wealth of just $5,000 and someone asked us to donate $25 which would virtually eradicate world poverty would we give up the $25?? (A rhetorical question, of course any of us would, it’s only a measly one half of just one percent of our wealth we wouldn’t even notice it gone.) I mean, any one of us would gladly give up say 0.5% (just one half of a tiny one percent) of our wealth if that would mean an end to world poverty.

        Ok. In reality, billionaires make up approx 0.000008% of the world’s population. That’s a pretty tiny fraction of a pretty tiny one percent. It would only take 0.5% or just one half of just one percent of their combined wealth to pretty much put an end to poverty on the entire planet. It would be the same for them (in reality this time) as it would be for any of us in the example where we would give up the $25 out of our $5,000. Because $25 to end world poverty….hell yeah!! And we’d still have $4,975 out of our $5,000!!

        Yet poverty still exists. So half of just 1% of their wealth is more important to them than ending world poverty.

        A further example shows us that a financial transaction tax on large volume transactions could end poverty tomorrow. We’re talking about not a 1% tax, which is pretty small, not even a 1 tenth of 1 percent tax. We’re talking a tax of just one one hundredth of 0.01 of the total.

        Yet those with all the money and all of the power are outraged at such a suggestion and refuse to implement changes such as this as it would affect profits. In fact they refuse to make any changes which might affect the status quo because the status quo is good for them as it let’s them keep all the money and all the power.

        Once you think more and more about these sorts of scenarios, you eventually always end up realising that it is impossible for the necessary changes to occur whilst the current system remains in place.

        You then travel further and further down the ever darkening path of no solutions until eventually, inevitably, you reach the final and only conclusion which is something like this:

        The wealthy few with all the power can exist and poverty can exist. Or, the wealthy few with all the power cannot exist and poverty cannot exist. Sounds confusing, let’s put it another way. Poverty will continue to exist unless the wealthy few with all of the power cease to exist. For there to be no more poverty, the wealthy few with all of the power must cease to exist.

        If you were to come to any other conclusion, (such as…. But that’s a bit extreme, what if the wealthy few with all of the power changed their way of thinking and deep down they really care about others and they really really do want to eliminate poverty…) you would be deluded.

    • Daniel Venema says:

      The time in which the quote was written is irrelevant if it is still relevant, which it is. You mindless fucking idiot.

    • Michael says:

      In nearly all cases, poverty is not the result of “inappropriate expenditure”. Instead, it is the result of systemic failings, in which too many people do not have an income necessary for them to purchase the necessities of life. As one of your premises is invalid, your conclusion is therefore false.

    • minnie says:

      Considering there were no benefits in 1891 definitely out of date as welfare is designed to provide food and shelter in tough times and not be an affluent career choice!!!

      • Norm says:

        Welfare as an ‘affluent career choice’ ? the mind boggles, did you read this blog post or not?

        • minnie says:

          Yep, not talking about what it is but what some are saying it should be!!! And wasnt too impressed by the lack of self responsibility by some of those interviewed in the city mission article, sorry but that is my opinion which I assume I’m allowed to have.

          • Kate Davis says:

            I can give example after example of budget, and I’m sure I can find cases of poor you consider more deserving. That won’t change the fact we have a growing number of poor.

          • Murray Smith says:

            Of course you’re allowed your opinion, but that fact alone doesn’t absolve it from being willfully ignorant, invalid and amoral. Opinions reveal who we are, so why not a valid identifier (your full name) that reveals who you really are? otherwise your apology can’t be either acceptable or accepted can it?

            • minnie says:

              EEEWWW thats a little creepy, googling and facebook stalking a hobby of yours is it!!! Hows that for willfully ignorant, invalid or amoral.
              Want to know who I really am!! Would love to hear what you think I am.
              Brief history – average middle New Zealand middle aged woman bought up in small town by widowed mum on a benefit in a house that today would be considered derelict and unlivable(actually it was probably considered derelict and unlivable then, but to me it was home!)
              Wore second hand clothes that were meticulously washed and ironed, and ate three meals a day, nothing fancy just good basic tucker.
              Was about 10 when we got electric hot water and could have hot shower everyday and about 14 when a telephone was installed in the house. Wow such luxuries and so privileged!
              Was taught right from word go that education was everything, had to be knocking on deaths door before a day off school was warranted and could not leave school before a job was secured! Helped to pay my way in the household from that day on.
              Met a great man, got married, had 3 children.
              Husband orphaned at age 10, Grew Up in boarding school – not elite by any means, also could not leave school until a job was secured! Started out chucking hay bales, moved on to fencing, then had a go at milking cows!
              Learnt from an early age to “fend for oneself cos ain’t nobody else gonna do it for ya” and when the going got tough you cried a river then built a bridge!
              Life been pretty much a slog through the hard times, cruisier through good times, had to move to where the jobs were, from top to bottom of North Island but overall comfortable, no iphones, no 60″ tvs, computer 9 years old, no label clothes and have travelled to Australia.
              Just good ol fashioned values, that have served us well over the years! Oh also have a freehold beach house to retire in, and mortgaged rental that will hopefully provide a small nestegg when the time comes.
              Anything else you feel you need to know, just ask. Full name and address irrelevant tho I think!

    • Andrea says:

      If

      If you can keep your head when all about you
      Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
      If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
      But make allowance for their doubting too;
      If you can wait and not be tired by waiting,
      Or being lied about, don’t deal in lies,
      Or being hated, don’t give way to hating,
      And yet don’t look too good, nor talk too wise:

      And if you pass on your delicious comments to the like of Hotchkin, Watson, and Petrecivic then you may have done some good in the world.

    • Cagey says:

      No matter how you get there, once you are poor you Are poor – bereft of finances, ie money. The point of the quote is it’s the same as saying ” you’re staving (ie too little/no food) don’t eat as much” ie it’s advice light on understanding of the problem and heavy of judgement.

      • zuluspirit says:

        Agree. It’s light on understanding the problem and heavy on the judgement of the person. Well put.
        Too many people assume they know everything about other people’s lives. When really they don’t. Poverty isn’t about the benefit like jk and his cronies want people to think. It’s about everyday hard working as well. And it is simply because the cost of living in 2014 has skyrocketed, but the income is still in the 80’s. A minimum living wage isn’t damaging to the economy at all, like this Hitler government want you to think. National are ruining our country and the real sad part is that the majority of the people are happy for that to happen.

    • Liberty4NZ says:

      The audacity of you, ODAKYU-SEN. Spend what inappropriately? When you are on a benefit or low income, as well as increasingly the middle income bracket, after paying for your existence, THERE IS NOTHING LEFT TO SPEND, LET ALONE “SPEND INAPPROPRIATELY”.

  2. dave says:

    NIce work Kate, bang on again. I thought Diane Robertson spoke well and also very controlled. The Herald article re the Mission was also a little disturbing giving erroneous advice re food grant entitlements etc.

  3. $207 a week. Net.

    Any accomodation supplemnent paid on top of that pays only a portion of rental/mortgage. The balance comes out of the $207.

    Most middle class NZers have stuff all clue about benefits, having never had to survive on one. Neither do they have a clue about the hoops which welfare applicants have to jump through. The paperwork alone is eye-watering – https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2013/02/08/winz-waste-and-wonky-numbers/

    Meanwhile, as inequality and poverty grows in this country, National Party fellow-travellers insist that things are rosy and getting better.

    Self-delusional doesn’t begin to cover those who are tribal in their affiliation to this rotten government.

    • Kate Davis says:

      I agree Frank. Many people have no idea of the reality of benefit entitlements. I thought of adding some more examples of budgets and will probably do so in the future.

      This example is for a Job Seeker with no accommodation supplement.

      I have countless examples of women, in particular , who are left with $40 or $60 to feed them & their children. This is really prevalent with people paying market rent. The accommodation tops out still $150.

    • downwithnats says:

      Absolutely, Frank. For 2 years after I lost employment and only in the direst of circumstances, I thought of applying for the dole–each time halted by the arrival of minimal work that dribbled on inadequately until reaching 65. Even with a pension, and no capital possessions, a pensioner must grovel or work to survive.

      However, during those years of thinking–and being told by others that– I should should get onto the dole, the mere process is so demeaningly complex, that I gave up the pursuit. I survived, but I can imagine the hopelessness and degradation of others who want to work. Those made redundant by the destruction of manufacturing and gutting of union support in NZ.

      The the plight of the unemployed is exacerbated by the scorn heaped upon them by the currently comfortable, is disgustingly inconceivable, from the caring NZ that used to exist.

      (I’m a long-time immigrant New immigrants should keep their criticisms to their previous countries that they left to come here)

    • Daibach says:

      I am a 56 year old male, worked all my life until 12 mths ago. Lost all my money to divorce and child support. Cannot find work. I live in Northland and am forced to live out of town as I cannot afford to rent in town; I receive $270/wk (includes all supplements) of that $150 is rent $60 is Utilities ( which at that rate has fallen behind), leaving $60 for food…but I cannot afford to run a vehicle so the delivery fee on my food is $15, so on can spend $45/wk on food. All good until you run out of washing powder toilet paper rubbish bags detergent a toothbrush or razor, I have high blood pressure and need to visit the doctor for a new script 3mthly. when that week falls round I have to find $32 for the doctor $25 Chemist, and starve for a week or two.
      But hey its my fault and who wants to get up and go to work every day just so they can eat.
      The sad fact is if I found a job on the minimum wage The extra $130 I
      would earn would have to be used to fund a car and petrol to get to the work, so the poor whether working or not do NOT have enough to get by on let alone think about what Xmas presents to spend their “disposable” income on

      • Kate Davis says:

        Thank you for sharing that Diabach. I feel that I can write this time and time again but it is individuals contributing their own circumstances that give the discussion authenticity.

        Thank you. I hope at the very least you have neighbours with excess kaimoana. x.

  4. Archonblatter says:

    Are any representatives from Mana, The Internet Party, Labour, or any group of grassroots concerned citizens talking to people in food queues and delivering political pamphlets, information and notices of future meetings + food, along with Yuletide greetings?

    • Kate Davis says:

      Really good point. The answer is no. There is no party that really represents the voice of beneficiaries & poverty at the moment.

      Where are the elected representatives in this discussion?

    • Maria says:

      Mana Turanga Foodbank Appeal: Non-perishable goods can be dropped off to KaPai Kaiti Community Hub everyday

      Mana HQ in Gisborne: christmas dinner 25th 2pm, for all

      Check out Mana movement facebook page for details

      As a Mana member, I will be serving meals at our town/city lunch for people who are going through hard times this year on christmas day.

    • downwithnats says:

      I think you will find they work on poverty privately as well through the channels of established charities. The parties of the Left care a lot. They just don’t need TV commercials to show off their charity.

      • Kate Davis says:

        I think the politics of the left is about community & redistribution, the problem is identifying which parties can still claim a genuine left ethos.
        Feel free to reply with an answer?

        I agree politics is not all about parliament, it’s in our individual actions, however at this point I think it is safe to say the poor of NZ have been let down by all their parliamentary representatives.

  5. wild katipo says:

    Hahahaha – the only reason Rancidoil thinks people queuing for food is disgusting is because it threatens his neo liberal thug ideology -and that’s the same reason John xKEYscore and Double Dipper Blinglish from Dipton deny the OECD reports.

    For the same fucking reasons !!!

    They cant afford to admit their playing for the same team…George Bush seniors ‘thousand points of light ‘ New World Order !!

    We got Rancidoil financed by the Israeli far right wing Likkud party and John xKEYscore backed by the USA financiers who in turn finance Israel.

    Throw in a little far out Farrar and waddya get?

    You say it , I’ll think it . L00L !!!

    These neo liberal thugs dont give blind rats arse about people.

    The only time they give a damn is if there is any hint of the public catching on to the sort of people they really are…even then – they are so reprobate they don’t care about what others think of them….only if their grip on power is threatened which in turn might threaten their ability to rifle the public purse !!!

    These neo liberal thugs don’t give a blind rats arse about you , your poverty , or your kids.

  6. I first went on the benefit 34 years ago and it was my life for a long time. I was brought up in Mangere working class and had a great childhood and felt really keen to get working and spread the joy of that but work at the bottom was always grinding, boring and paypackets thin so going on the dole and learning economy and getting skills and tools seemed appropriate. Did a few work schemes got some skills, and joined the workforce… fun stuff landscaping. Went subcontracting then self employed with 4 mates… BOOM 1987.

    Lost everything then and have done it twice more trying to fit in. Now I’m of the opinion that it’s a crashing wave of ignorance that just has to crash and the only thing I can really do is keep out of the way. This summer the front lawn gets turned into a vege garden.

    • wild katipo says:

      Aye…and what they don’t tell you is that neo liberalism works well for the multinational corporate’s with geo – political ties….but for the small businesses , they’re relegated to intense competition and the ever decreasing returns of squabbling for the crumbs through competing and undercutting each other.

      The neo lioberal thugs call it ‘personal choices’ and ‘flexibility ‘.

      Code word for ‘divide and conquer’ , ‘ grind them down ‘, ‘ pacify them through hopelessness ‘ – and then finally , control them.

      This is the formulae for what George Bush senior meant when he stated during the first Iraq war….” No one shall stand against our thousand Points of Light ”…”and our New World Order”….

      The ‘Thousand Points of Light ‘ is a Masonic term…occultic in fact. George Bush senior is /was a member of the Skull and Bones society. An Occult and clandestine group.

      Hard to understand?…Occult simply means ‘hidden’ in Latin.

      Saddam Hussien had to go because he started to buck the system…even though the USA used him for years as a buffer against Russia during the Cold War years.

      You are feeling and expressing the end product of this particular brand of social engineering.

      As are the people needing financial relief /housing / food parcels/award rates and security in jobs. This is how it translates to the common man. And this is why they wage war…to control. And to murder those in their way.

      And why it seems so awfully unfathomable.

      And this is also why I call these types neo liberal thugs.

  7. minnie says:

    Hey we work hard, pay wages to two families and enough taxes to support two more, what more do you expect!!!

    • wild katipo says:

      Yeah well I had a divorce ,did a house up when I was a student at one stage , lost my oldest child to childhood cancer, had 6 employees and still had to look after my youngest boy. Then lost the lifestyle block during the 2008 greedy bastard crash .

      Even had to give my bloody dogs away.

      Thats life.

      Now I sleep on a camp stretcher in a rented shithole in Auckland and can still can roar loudly about social injustice.

      And I sure as hell don’t want to hear anybody moan about not having steak for dinner every second night.

      And as for Rancidoil?…shove it up your bloody arse.

  8. Slater’s blog made Me sick, Your Blog made Me cry. What happened to the New Zealand where John Key’s Mother got the Welfare Support She needed & a State House to live in?

    • minnie says:

      Still there but now better!!! Expectations have got higher!! And up to hard working people to support those that wont work or learn!!! Some of them should learn to milk cows and never need to be unemployed or homeless again!!

      • Andrea says:

        Well, it’s no good going to the forestry or the freezing works, is it Minnie? So many of the works are closed and too many good blokes die out on the hill these days.

        And the assembly factories, or processing where many women could work to fill out the family income – well, they’ve gone, too, haven’t they? And the small branch offices of banks, or the Post Office, or local businesses – lots of empty premises, aren’t there, Minnie?

        And the after-school jobs that got a lot of kids started on the ways of work? Yeah. You have to ‘know someone’.

        And the kids who are eager learners but aren’t academic? Where, dear Minnie, are the apprenticeships and placements to get a full training?

        I know it’s the Silly Season. However, keyboards are the sort of equipment that should be operated while stone-cold sober. Drive safely, now.

        • minnie says:

          Like I said, learn to milk cows, website used to be fencepost but now called farmsource i think, probably a hundred jobs available right now, sure lots want some experience, but lots will be happy to train a keen person.
          Freezing works still out there and my daughter started her working life in one only 5 years ago, met her partner there and now have couple kids, living and working on dairy farm. Other daughter got very good job, applied for a lesser one and was offered a better one after interview, why because she has great communication skills although only finished year 12 at college. Youngest, a son, has just completed an engineering apprenticeship, gained after 3 and a bit years at college and the bare minimum credits, seems attitude and communication got him in, struggled with paperwork but stuck at it.
          Plenty of takeaways for afterschool work, 1 daughter did that for a while, other one had petrol station work, knocking on doors and asking is a good way to find work.
          Forestry agreed is not the safest, but common sense goes a long way to ensure ones own safety, same in any outdoor work!
          I myself left school with minimal qualifications and husband had none, never been unemployed and no silver spoons here, both bought up by widowed mums back when motherhood was a job and a responsibility!!.
          Good work ethic instilled in us and passed on!!
          Dont know what your problem is!!

          • Kate Davis says:

            Well done you Minnie. Not everyone has your abilities.
            Incidentally milking vows when you have three kids & live on the city possibly is not really practical advice.

            Knocking on doors for jobs is also an outdated concept. Most of them will just tell you how to apply online.

            Your ideas are quaint.

            Btw…the cow thing looks a little unstable.

            • minnie says:

              My abilities weren’t hard to learn, we chose to have children, it was our responsibility to feed cloth and educate them. Get out of the city! More cheaper houses and welfare still the same!Volatile, always has been always will be, but the cows still have to be milked and someone has to do it!! Workers will still get paid!!

              • More cheaper houses and welfare still the same!

                WINZ takes a very dim view of welfare recipients moving to places where there are cheap houses but no jobs.

                Your judgemental moralism is asinine, Minnie.

                • Mike@nz says:

                  Mr Macskasy, Minnie is right in saying that there are jobs in those areas.

                  The ‘3 kids’ argument just doesn’t wash. All farm kids grew up involved on the farm in some way. That is why they tend to grow into practical well adjusted adults. They are raised as the children of two working parents, same as in the cities. Although they can tend to have a better work ethic as they often have the attitude that they don’t ‘go to work’, as such, instead they ‘do jobs that need to be done’. A slightly different outlook on the 8 to 5 drudgery.

                  Andrea, Kate Davis and Mr Macskasy, you need to give more credit to the people you claim to represent and stop being so self defeatist.

            • Mike@nz says:

              Actually Kate, Minnie does have a point…a very good one.

              The only “abilities” most employers are looking for at entry level are 1)Turn up for work on time, 2)Show a decent work ethic and 3)Stay straight and sober during work hours.

              We all have to start somewhere. My sister is a senior constable first class in the Australian Police. Fifteen years ago she was flipping burgers in McDonalds Taupo.

              There is more to certain jobs than money. There are conditions of employment. In the case of my staff conditions include either free or heavily discounted accommodation, meat, firewood, and work ute. One of my staff has conditions totalling over $400 per week cash equivalent.

              Have faith in yourself, be prepared to start from the bottom and learn and good things will come….I promise!

              • It occurs to me, Mike@NZ that you’re assuming many people aren’t prepared to “start at the bottom”? You’re assuming workers aren’t prepared to “1)Turn up for work on time, 2)Show a decent work ethic and 3)Stay straight and sober during work hours”.

                By making such coded insinuations, you’re simply shifting attention from employers and government policies, onto workers. You’re suggesting, in a very guarded way, that there “something wrong” with employees.

                Of course, you don’t come out and say it. It’s all subtle digs and insinuation.

                And then you have the cheek to make the final moral determination; “There is more to certain jobs than money. ”

                Oh yes, I’m sure CEOs paid multi-million salary packages agree that “There is more to certain jobs than money. ”

                And a worker wanting to pay off a mortgage on a house? Try offering your bank “meat, firewood, and work ute” in lieu of money.

                What’s the bet, Mike@NZ that you insist your customers pay you in cash – not meat or firewood.

                • minnie says:

                  Mr Macskasy, why didnt you just say stupid, I’m not baffled by big words. There are jobs in rural areas, not far from Auckland there are freezing works, chicken factories, dairy factories, public works businesses, McDonalds, Warehouses, supermarkets, schools, etc etc… oh and dairy farms. All struggling to get reliable and commited workers.
                  Start in a not so desirable job, prove yourself and learn everything, get the references and move on up. Its not rocket science.
                  And what is wrong with employers having expections of an honest days work from their employees!
                  Obviously you think that some of the benefits mentioned by Mike shouldnt count because they arent cash. Those extras mean that you dont have to spend money to be fed, warm or travel to work! Those benefits are not replacing wages they are on top of them.
                  Obviously you think someone who has achieved through education and hard work, dedication and commitment shouldnt get paid any more than the beginner with no experience.
                  I have two daughters paying off houses at the moment on workers wages, 1 of them living on a dairy farm and renting their house out which doesnt cover the cost mortgage, rates, insurance but helps. Guess what its in a small town.
                  What is so wrong with helping oneself to better oneself. How many solo mums go back to college for a basic education when their kids start school. How many beneficiaries are volunteering at places like the City Mission – would there have been such a lineup for the freebies if they were required to do two hours of help voluntarily or is that against their human rights!

                  • Chch_Chiquita says:

                    Minnie, you seam to take the extreme cases and apply it on anyone who is standing in line for help. Maybe some exploit the system. Maybe some are irresponsible people. Maybe some are buying smokes instead of buying food. It doesn’t change the fact many are not, and they are going without.
                    Every time I go to city mission to donate I think to myself how lucky I am and how lucky my kids are, to have had the opportunities in life that got us where we are. Yes we work hard but it was only the luck of the draw that we were born where we were, just like at the earthquakes we were lucky not to suffer too much damage. It doesn’t make me go out and wonder what people are complaining about re EQC and insurance! People born to poverty and people who found themselves there need help, much more then just food donations, and that help is not available when the government is denying there is a problem.

                    • minnie says:

                      Nope never have i referred to all of them across the board, social welfare is an absolute neccessity for the truly desperate and deserving and dont mind them getting it. For some it will be their only means of survival, those with physical and mental disabilities for example. But believe that tougher measures should be in place for the fit and healthy who think they can live their whole lives by someone elses coin and demand more and more with little or no accountability, maybe its time to give out food vouchers instead of cash equivalents so kids can be fed, and a requirement of benefits is compulsory birth control so their problems arent compounded, costing the govt more and more and the savings could go to the true deservers!!!
                      Child poverty is sickening, self inflicted child poverty is more so!

                  • Mike says:

                    “required to do 2 hours of help voluntarily..”

                    FFS… just so you know, the words required and voluntarily kinda don’t work together in this sentence.

                    By the way, do you have any idea how much it costs to move out of Auckland to another part of the country, both financially and emotionally?

                    I wonder if the people renting your daughter’s house have enough income to pay the rent without your daughter’s mortgage payments getting subsidised by taxpayers through the accommodation supplement, which is essentially just landlords scabbing money of taxpayers. I guess that would make her a beneficiary.

                    • minnie says:

                      FFS Mike
                      How does
                      “Asked nicely to kindly donate 1 hour of your time, of which you have plenty, to help pack and distribute some of these parcels and in return you will receive 1.” How hard is it for some people! And you made no attempt to answer my perfectly ligitimate question!!!
                      Go back up the top and read my brief history, I know exactly what it costs to move around the country!!!
                      The people renting my daughters house is a young woman who grew up with nothing, from a broken home who used her limited resources to finance herself through a course, took a part time job at a pool complex and now finds herself managing the damn thing. Only has time off when enough staff decide to turn up for their rostered hours, shares the house with 2 others younger than herself in their first jobs, and receives nothing in taxpayer supplements!!!
                      Are you beginning to understand!

                • Mike@nz says:

                  Yes Mr Macskasey, I am assuming that ‘many’ aren’t prepared to start at the bottom. Many but nowhere near all. In my personal experience of hiring staff, I put it at 1 in 5. And yes, if you saw the attitude and emotional baggage that some of these people bring to their job interview, you may also conclude that there is something wrong with the employee. But that’s only 1 in 5. The rest are wonderful people and I often wish I could give a job to all of them.

                  Yes, there is more to certain jobs than money. In my case $400 a week more, which along with cash remuneration is referred to as the ‘total package’. In the corporate sector, the total package often includes company shares.

                  And as for suggesting that I insist on being paid cash……..wrong. I have accepted a horse as payment, a small block Chev engine and, where I come from, beer and whiskey are considered legal tender.

            • Toasty says:

              Door knocking is till very valid. 2 of the employees of my small firm are people who turned up at the door and made an effort. They were unqualified a the time but are now extremely valuable staff members.

          • Liberty4NZ says:

            Yes Minnie, let’s all learn to milk cows like my neighbours who work a 60 hour week for about $400. There’s a name for it, SLAVERY. Not even minimum wage for the hours. That’s why Kiwis won’t do these jobs. I would go so far as to say that if they do they are letting us all down. Good work ethic is one thing. Third world work conditions, exploitation and pay is quite another. Any wonder there are hundreds of these unfilled jobs? Slog your guts out, on call 24/7, one day off a fortnight, (if your’e lucky), and barely enough to put food on the table. Some are slightly more fortunate and get a run down derelict shit-hole to live in whilst slogging their guts out, but perhaps are too exhausted to notice. Wow, it’s the Kiwi dream! No wonder the suicide rate in this country is so high.

            • minnie says:

              Minimum wage applies to farm workers as well as townies! So is the $400 gross or net,do they have kids and claim the tax credits for them. Are they paying rent or is the house supplied with the job, can they get their home milk from the vat, do they get bonuses at season end for a job well done, is there any meat supplied as in a beast a year, are they getting any skill improvement courses paid for. So much not explained here!
              Why is it that foreign workers from other countries and more than willing to take these jobs when kiwis feel they are too good for them.
              Yes there are early starts in the morning, farming never has and never will be a 9 to 5 job and because it is seasonal, some times of the year are far busier than others.
              Some owners are arses who will never keep good workers but remembering that while your current position isnt great keep looking for a better one, dont leave this job until you have another one, and when applying for jobs “you are only as good as your last one”.
              As for living in shit holes, most are of a reasonable standard, and more than livable. Grew up in a “shithole” in a town, being loved and looked after was far more important.

              • Why is it that foreign workers from other countries and more than willing to take these jobs when kiwis feel they are too good for them.

                Oh! I know! I know!

                Because they’re easier to exploit and under-pay wages! Because they are vulnerable to exploitation and won’t complain! Because they won’t even notice their employer is ignoring basic Health & Safety rules!

                Howzat, Minnie? Hope it didn’t blow a hole in your conservative, god-fearing fantasy world.

                • minnie says:

                  Very few are exploited, most are fine hard working people making the most of the opportunity and are damn thankful that they can get work here to support their families far better than they ever could in their own countries.
                  Trouble is you read about a minority of complaints and think it applies to all!

                  • Liberty4NZ says:

                    In Minnie’s world you must be grateful that you get to eat! Zero quality of life for the worker is just fine by her. Lady, you grew up in a very different world where working hard got you somewhere. Your high and mighty remarks are indicative of many of the arrogant baby boomer generation, way back when a dollar held value. That is what got you where you are today, not particularly wise choices or superior morals. I am Gen X and my parents first home was 3,000 dollars, when my father was earning $50 a week. If you do the maths life was allot kinder. The trials and tribulations Gen X, and Gen Y face, well let’s just say, yours, pale in comparison to ours. So perhaps one day, if heaven forbid, hard times befall you, maybe, you will see things differently. I suppose you think third world people of asian and indian decent, working in sweatshops should be grateful for their bowl of rice a day. You have nothing to be proud of. I find your comments out of touch with reality, callous and offensive. You should be ashamed of yourself.

                    • Liberty4NZ says:

                      Oh and Minnie, if having a roof over your head and a little food winds up the only objective for working, I may decide I am better off living in a tent and foraging for food. At least then I wouldn’t have chronic back ache from lifting items humans shouldn’t and constant exposure to cancer causing chemicals, as well as likely have more food. If mine and the next generation end up opting out of the system, and the way things are going it really is on the cards, what will your generation do when there is no labour force to provide your comforts?

                    • minnie says:

                      God forbid, When the hell did working hard become worth didly squat and I’ve been doing it all these years for nothing!!!
                      Maybe the baby boomer generation has been replaced by the baby epidemic generation!!!
                      I think todays generation here should be thankful that they are not living in those asian and indian countries, perhaps a boatload of people could go over and check out real poverty and slum conditions!!! They might come back feeling as rich as kings!!

              • Liberty4NZ says:

                $400 net. Courtesy shit-hole provided because nobody is desperate enough to rent it. Middle-aged, South African couple, no dependent kids so no employer subsidies for them. Intermittent employer to employee expletative-laden verbal abuse thrown in, ( I can hear him at it from my place 1.5km away). Minnie, you have clearly led a sheltered life, evidenced by your idealism, real life is not a “It’s milking time Murray” commercial.

                • minnie says:

                  Sounds like they might have one of the arses of bosses.
                  Hope you are doing everything you can to encourage them in their search for a better one. I guess you have provided them with a character reference to add to their CV because that arse probably wont provide them with a work one, will he. Sadly there are some who let the entire team down, but one bad apple shouldnt spoil the whole bunch, with some backup from neighbours this couple should be able to move on successfully.

              • Mike says:

                Do me a favour, go onto TradeMe and find me one farm job suitable for an unemployed person with no farming experience.Also they have no money for moving and bond, rent in advance, etc so would need accommodation. And no car or petrol to get to an interview, not sure how to sort that one, can they come up to auckland to interview?

                Oh, and they’d need to know that the person doesn’t at all want to be a fucking farmer so will be looking to find another job as soon as possible back in Auckland so may not want to invest time in training them too much.

                Get real minnie, finding a job on a farm somewhere in the middle of nowhere is really not a viable option for most unemployed people living in Auckland and you know it.

                • Kate Davis says:

                  Mike, you are a legend!

                • minnie says:

                  And living in Auckland is not really a viable option for the unemployed because there arent enough jobs, those lucky enough to get work are seriously underpaid, there is a severe lack of housing, the public transport system is useless and expenses are too high!!!
                  Sounds like a bit of a hell hole to me and makes me wonder why anyone would want to stay!!!

                  • Perhaps some cannot afford to leave, Minnie? It takes money to shift. No job = no money = stuck. And where does one move to without a job? (WINZ is not an answer, by the way.)

                    Like must be very, very simple for you.

                    For the rest of us, we deal in Life’s realities, not ideals.

                    • minnie says:

                      Hey Im only going by what is reported on, hear and see it every day on MSM.
                      Correct me if Im wrong but dont WINZ help with the costs eg petrol for attending interviews for the active job searchers and possibly provide assistance for the moving when job is secured and would need to be paid back understandably.
                      Rather a judgmental comment about how simple my life is dont you think, have worked for almost 40 years to get where I am, and have to keep working to stay here!
                      That is my reality!

              • Daibach says:

                Minnie another statement you made was the idea that solo mums should have to accept birth control..Who gives you the right to suggest that only the rich can have children. Your children will probably never have to experience being poor as a result of the wealth you have created. They could easily fall ill or be made redundant. You would be happy for them to not produce grandchildren??? simply because they find themselves unemployed. Sadly not that many people have rich parents to fall back on, and with the growing divide between rich and poor, that number is growing fast to the point that even your inheritance to your children may soon become worthless compared to the super rich. I hope not but your children or grandchildren could very easily end up in the same boat as almost 60% of the population. It is not only the unemployed who are struggling but those on the “mean” wage and even those on the “average” wage

                • minnie says:

                  I said maybe its time these things should be considered: When I read a bleating article about the rising problems of poverty in this country and examples of the poverty stricken are a young solo mother with a 2yo, 1yo and 7 week old who cant afford to feed them and needs handouts where do you think she should stop 8, 10, 12 and if she cant feed them as babies how the hell will she feed them as rampantly growing teenagers and what are the fathers doing!!!
                  And another example are the couple whose health stops them working, but can produce baby No 4. As their health deteriorates in the future who the hell is going to care for those children!!!
                  Problem compounding!!!
                  As for your suppositions about our wealth and our kids, go read my story.
                  If my children were ill, or redundant I hope they would be responsible enough not to have kids, or more kids in some cases until they could again provide for said kids! Is that a crime!
                  Will never have to experience being poor, we’ve been poor! We’ve worked our way out to a better position, they dont have huge inheritences coming their way and they are in those “average” or “mean” brackets right now just like 60% of the population. And they are working to stay there!

        • melaniej says:

          Gold.

      • downwithnats says:

        Minnie, get a reality check. Before the National government engineers you out of work yourself. The poor do not want to be poor. And I will do everything I can to be certain they rise to vote these arseh#@!s out. Thank your lucky stars and gain a conscience. You could be out on your own tod tomorrow.
        –from an honest and willing taxpayer, for the purposes of social communtiy support .

        • minnie says:

          Hey my reality is fully in check. Read the new post of mine above of my history in answer to Murray Smith who wants to know my real name, why I dont know and then tell me Im not real.
          Would like to know what lucky stars you think I should be thanking, luck has very little to do with my life. Work and living within my means has everything, so Im thankful that I am capable.
          My conscience is where it should be and am happy to help anyone in need, I donate regulary to worthy causes and will gladly help anyone that asks.
          We work in dairying so the only govt that will bring that down appears to be the Greens and cant see that happening any time soon. Cheers

    • Michael says:

      Slater is just expressing the National Party’s view of poor people. His blog post may even have been written for him by one of Honest John’s spin doctors on the 9th floor of the Beehive (at our expense, naturally). After “Dirty Politics”, I think we can safely conclude that whatever Slater writes has official imprimatur.

    • geoff lye says:

      three names.

      Roger Douglas

      Ronald Regan

      Margret Thatcher

      And The Neo Liberal Thugs that raped the old school social democratic way of life.

    • Kate Davis says:

      I agree Foxy. What had happened & where is the empathy? It isn’t easing up, it’s getting worse.

  9. Nick says:

    It isn’t as if we are out of things that need doing in New Zealand. Housing health care railways, bike trails. It isn’t as if there is a lack of money – obviously from the election result, the majority must be doing very nicely, thank you. it is political will. There is certainly, with the appropriate political will, a path back to full employment in New Zealand. (Do we really need ever increasing numbers of robots? Do we need to relocate complaint or questioning calls to India?
    I think the time is over due for a national conference called something like “Full Employment and Full Stomachs”.
    And I would invite the conservative side of politics to be equally involved. This has to transcend party..

    • Andrea says:

      Do we need to get people, other than short term politicians or middle of the bell curve people, gathered together to start looking at the underlying systems that create these cruel and destructive social results?

      They get their turn every three years and the results are underwhelming. They’re IN the system and benefitting from it. ‘More of the same’ is usually what they recommend – however inadequate or outdated.

      Don’t ask the fish about the water. They simply ‘can’t see it’.

  10. A few things:
    As technology ‘progresses’ it replaces workers, we need to have a discussion about how to offer full and participatory lives to those displaced, infact everyone , eg, once there were huge teams of ox drivers, now there are tractors with one pilot.
    Working with hands has been discriminated against in favor of an obsession with hierarchical management; with many skilled creators ending up ‘promoted’ into management instead of doing what they do best.
    Cognitive dissonance aside, and ignoring the bigot-ism of people who still believe hard work with your hands can earn you riches; what we need to do is marshal the abundance of resources and technology to allow for a 2-3 day working week for everyone, sadly for very few of us (the top 10% or so) it may end up giving up a few properties and baubles, I’m sure they’ll cope fine, they have a better base than most of the bottom 50%.
    Its delightful to see a slow revolution take place in my lifetime, as a 1973 baby I was the last to remember no student fees (for 1 year, bless Lockwood Smith), the intro of GST, many crashes, and affordable electricity, a more forgiving and genuinely decent society, and no internet! Arseholes used to have cell phones and yuppies wore sports casual: Now we’re all Gap wearing cellphone using Yuppy Arseholes, thanks to conformist mass market cultural warfare.
    I’ll sign off, but don’t believe the hype: the market isn’t free, there’s no level playing field, people aren’t all the same rational economic selfish units and it ain’t a dog eat dog world of fascist social Darwinists: sadly Darwin believed co-operation was a larger driving force for evolution than competition. Wilde is ALWAYS right! I find it amusing the almost complete lack of genuinely witty comedians from the neo-liberal perspective, you’d think their merit=$ formula would generate more…too busy sucking on the dick of male privilege I guess!

  11. Murray Simmonds says:

    “Both John Key and Bill English dismissed the OECD report. Key has quite a history of denying inequality.”

    A basic tenet of neoliberalism is to deny the existence of ALL social problems apart from those few that might have some slight negative impact upon the rich and upon the circumstances required for them to get even richer.

    The nats as a whole are firmly entrenched in neoliberal philosophy. Don’t expect any change in approach from them ‘cos it ain’t gonna be forthcoming as long as they remain in government.

  12. Cagey says:

    Isn’t it wonderful, in this time of “Goodwill to all Men” that a group of people (some professing themselves christians) still feel compeled to pull out their ‘beat the poor’ stick.

    I suggest instead of watching ‘Christmas in the Park’ they sit themselves down, watch ‘It’s a Wonderful Life’ then read ‘A Christmas Carol’ and try to see where their “undeserving poor” bah- humbug fits in with the spirit of Christmas.

  13. Dear Minnie,
    Dairying has had 150 years of direct subsidies from other people.Even though the overt subsidies ‘stopped’ in the 1980s, it doesn’t eliminate the previous 150 years. The prime ministers’ only job is to sell yoghurt to foreigners, basically a subsidy for dairy. Most of our water is exported as dairy. Dairy has ruined our rivers, none of them are potable water, an externalised cost classic in capitalism which is a real subsidy to clean up. Federated farmers still deny human influenced climate change..the list is endless, but being the biggest export is sadly a lie too. 80% of our export as a nation is capital, I write this comment on a broadband from Telstraclear that paid not $1 company tax for 14 years before being bought by Vodaphone. the remaining 20% is dairy, logging, tourism blah blah.
    However, ethically most industries have huge externalisations of cost, and overt and covert subsidies, there being no free market; so I’m not trying to blame you or your chosen career. You are infact lucky, dairy is one of the few manual occupations that rewards some of its workers, you’re lucky you’re not an illustrator, or work in the film industry, wipe old peoples bums, clean streets or offices at 2am, pump gas, pack shelves or any of the other less subsidised manual workers.
    You might be a hard worker, but you’re lucky you’re in dairy, in 2014, in NZ, with all its historical and cultural context.
    To quote that black terrorist Mandela:
    Poverty is not an issue of charity, but justice.

    • Kate Davis says:

      Well said Warlock.

      Damn I love reading the comments, you guys are great. I don’t think we are going to move Minnie. She doesn’t seem like facts will alter her perception. What about heart Minnie. Do you think it’s okay that a mum with three kids, no partner, shouldn’t have enough to feed them?
      That they should have to beg for help?

      • minnie says:

        Geez thats a tough one, let me see…In short yes a mum with 3 kids and no partner should have enough to feed them as long as her first priority is her kids and the basic needs of survival, if that same mother is wasting money on her own fancies and leaving herself short for food for those three kids then she also needs a wakeup call and a voucher system could be good idea!
        In other words that simple question of yours cannot be answered simply without taking into account the best and worst scenarios.
        The first instance should also be rewarded with a little extra for treats because she is acting responsibly, the second instance needs education and constraints.
        See the comment below from Greer, makes a huge amount of sense to me!!

        • Geez thats a tough one, let me see…In short yes a mum with 3 kids and no partner should have enough to feed them as long as her first priority is her kids and the basic needs of survival,

          What do you base that on, Minnie? Do you even know what the outgoings of “a mum with 3 kids” is? Rent? Power? Car rego? Food? Clothing? Medicine?

          Do you have any comprehension what the costs of a single income earner is; trying to run a household and – if s/he is lucky – have paid employment as well?

          And one other thing; why do you focus on a “a mum with 3 kids” – why not a “dad with 3 kids”?

          Honestly, you come across as a self-centered, judgemental prat who claims to know everything.

          • minnie says:

            I am a mum of 3 kids so am well aware of the costs, also had a hungry man to feed.
            I am fully aware of costs of a single income earner are, family of 5, 3 kids and 2 adults.
            Focused on mum and 3 kids because that was the question that Kate Davis asked me above. Mum, Dad, doesnt really matter does it.
            Sorry if my knowledge offends you but that is not my problem. At least I can read and comprehend.

            • Well then, perhaps Minnie you can extend some of that “knowledge” and turn it into self-awareness because your rank judgementalism and superiority complex is no way to understand problems that affect other people and their families.

              A simple truism; we are not all the same. What worked for you in your life may work for others. It may not work for everyone.

              Bubble. Burst.

              • minnie says:

                “A simple truism; we are not all the same. What worked for you in your life may work for others. It may not work for everyone.”
                Damn right there!
                Some work out and do whats necessary to provide for themselves and take care of their own, and some sit back & wait for others to do it for them!!!
                I am well aware that for some it is impossible to change their circumstances and their lives will always require additional help “the truly needy”, but there are others that will take, take, take, wont appreciate it and will never stand on their own two feet and the more you give the more they expect!!!

    • minnie says:

      Sadly we were dairying when the subsidies were removed, fun times they were wow, farmers were dropping out like rats from a sinking ship others were digging their toes in, reinventing themselves, working out how to make things profitable again, changing directions and systems, got through the other end bruised, battered and exhausted but far more resilient and flexible!! And dont forget, the townies benefited from those subsidies as much as anyone else, cheap milk, job creation, retail spending to name a few.
      Joe Average has been told rivers are all our fault, how come the worst of the pollution is just downstream from the urban areas!! And where do you think your detergent residues from washing cars, pet animal wastes, vehicle exhaust residues, paint and concrete leachings and probably a few other nasties go or does that not count! And funny how before the election the greens said they would spend millions on fencing off said waterways, well guess what 80% percent of that job is already done, so I guess they would have saved those millions and taken the credit for getting the job done wouldn’t they, poor old Meturia can’t or won’t believe it or the fact that 3 of NZs biggest river came in the top 4 cleanest in the world!!!
      Climate change is a natural phenomenon, no warming for many years has been recorded hence the name change, and anyway when we all stop processing carbons of any description, revert back to horses, have no electricty and whatever else it will take to reduce emissions by the fantastic dream number of 90% mentioned the other day by the head in sand spokesperson, possibly the same one who used a “plastic bag” to stop the sand getting in her ears, who is going to volunteer to bung up all the volcanoes which are by far the greatest emitters of carbon that do so continually!!!
      And excuse me but there should be no shame in wiping old peoples bums, after all that will be us one day, or cleaning or pumping gas, we all demand that it get done afterall and I’ll be the first to be lining up for any of those jobs if I had too, maybe even a couple of them, part time if necessary.!!! And by making such a statement, you sure as hell wouldn’t. Too good for that I guess!

      • And funny how before the election the greens said they would spend millions on fencing off said waterways, well guess what 80% percent of that job is already done,

        So much nonsense to address, so I’ll pick one at random. What’s your evidence that “80% percent of that job is already done”, Minnie? Can you prove that, or are you just making up any old sh*t that pops into your head?

        • minnie says:

          Apart from the several times I heard it mentioned on the TV around election times, have also read it in several articles, fencing of all waterways is required in one of the policies to ensure farms are compliant to be able to send milk to Fonterra, and I think the cutoff date was end of this year. Fencing has been done on this farm. Dont have hard solid evidence at my fingertips but google is a wonderful tool so maybe you could check on that yourself.
          Hang on…
          I just googled Fencing of Waterways and Gareth Morgan has written about it on Gareths World, seems I was wrong and the figure is 95% on October 28, 2014!!!
          Guess its not s**t

          • Is there a link to all this?!

            • Liberty4NZ says:

              You get it Frank. People like Minnie have benefitted (ironic term?) greatly from the status quo system. They will vehemently defend their position, as the alternative would be to admit that their collective attitudes, choices and indifference towards their children’s generation is largely why many of them are in this position now. After all THEY WORKED HARD! Back in a time when jobs were so plentiful, you got one just for showing up. Then, when you got paid, regularly I imagine, (I get paid by Novapay, (sic)), after your living costs there was even money left over to have a quality life!! Wow what a concept. Working during a time of plentiful jobs, which of course drove up wages, cheap housing, cheap oil and energy. If you were fortunate enough to be able-bodied you would have to be an absolute moron if those circumstances didn’t work out well for you. If my grandmother and mother hadn’t told me this is true, I’d think it was a fairytale/myth.

            • minnie says:

              Dont know, just do what I did, google fencing of waterways, when list of suggestions comes up, scroll down a litte, click on “Dairy farmers are voluntarily making huge progress fencing…”
              Easy and takes about 30 seconds!

  14. Greer says:

    Beneficiaries are only seen to be as good as their worst recipients. Therefore, the intense judgement stems from witnessing those who abuse and manipulate the welfare system. New Zealand is actually extremely fortunate to have healthcare, education, and welfare provided. The benefits are poorly planned, in the sense that necessities are not compulsory by providing cash. If the benefit consisted of the accommodation costs being paid directly from winz, a proportion put on the monitored payment card (not allowing the purchase of drugs/alcohol, whilst providing enough to actually eat sufficiently) and power/phone paid directly every week, then you would see a huge change. Not only would children actually have a warm home and food, the benefit would look less appealing to those who see it as an easy way to live, and the incentive of disposable income might provoke an interest to work. As for those who have hit hard times, I think there should be a benefit which compensates them the same as their prior wages for a 3 month period to ensure they do not get swallowed (making it harder to come back from). Sadly, it is those that are on a benefit for the wrong reasons who hinder progress or change in this severely flawed system!

    • Liberty4NZ says:

      Greer? You know why benefits aren’t broken down to directly pay for necessities? Payment direct to the Landlord, payment direct to the power company e.t.c. It’s because what the PTB don’t want non-beneficiaries to know, it would then be glaringly obvious, that the beneficiary recipient actually doesn’t receive enough money to cover these payments.

  15. […] our most vulnerable behind as blogger and advocate for Action Against Poverty Katie Dickie-Davis wrote recently for The Daily […]

  16. minnie says:

    Remember:
    “There are none so blind as those that won’t see”
    “Repeat something enough and they will believe”
    Telling the poor they are deprived and down trodden day in and day out and blaming the system, is demeaning and defeating, why not try utilising the power of positive thinking, after all it is the Labour Partys mantra!
    Giving more money to the wasteful wont help, teaching them to manage it will.
    The very selectful moderation system in this blog turns me right off and discourages meaningful debate and twists things to suit your own agenda.
    Some need to throw the logs of wood off their shoulders, stand up straight and find the road that leads somewhere, dead ends are a waste of time
    Cheers all

    • Lloyd Jordan says:

      tell the well off that it isnt their fault that the sewers run red with the poors weeping sores.. yep tell you nats anything more than once and it becomes gospel.. i noticed that you were awfully remiss in mentioning the gvt subsidy of 40% to fence the waterways.. never mind half a story goes down better at the xmas party ….a traditional time for the fat cats to announce the shutting down or downsizing…

      • minnie says:

        Yep you’re right the National Party are doing what they can with limited resources to help get the job done. Doesnt change the fact that it is being done does it, despite what others will have you believe.
        Thanks to environment rules and regulations locally some of those farmers have also been charged and fined because a little mud was disturbed in the process of fulfilling those requirements!!!
        Damned if you do and damned if you don’t!!!
        Another half story that needs outing too – apparently Rodney Hide, in the NBR, has some concerns about the OECD report, which is apparently is just a working paper, and only the bits that suit the agenda have been reported so far, so I will make sure I read it in full and form my own opinions on it too!

      • Mike@nz says:

        Yes, any kind of subsidy is wrong. Fencing subsidy, yacht racing subsidy, rent subsidy, all wrong.

        • Darth Smith says:

          and now tax and rate pay money for the casine nah fucked let the poor starve let them eat cake they dont fuckin exist .

          the answer is a revolution until the pitch forks are at the gates nothing will change

    • Mike@nz says:

      Well said Minnie. Everything you have said is good, sage advice….I know it is, because my story is the same as yours, sort of. Grow spuds on the back of the section, hand dig and sell them, lease 5 acres, lease another 5 acres, lease 20, then 50. Buy a small farm, double our acreage in Nov 1983, slip to negative 9% equity, pay 20.8% mortgage interest in the Lange/Douglas years, knuckle down and nearly lose the lot, borrow more on faith, have the luck to have a good year, start repaying debt, spend the next 20 years repaying debt.

      Fast forward to 2014. After relative success in the form of raising a decent family, numerous contributions to our local community and financial independence, you and me alike are viewed by some contributors to this blog as “fat cats.” They think that we, societies contributors and net taxpayers, are somehow depriving them of a chance of the ralative success of a middle class income and lifestyle they think that they deserve more than us. That we know nothing and that we have never known real hardship. That is the sad part, our experience doesn’t count for anything, but somehow theirs does.

      While reading the opinions of some of the contributers to this thread, I feel that I now know the frustrations of a secondary school teacher trying to get through to students who, although bright and intelligent, just don’t seem to “get it.”

      • minnie says:

        Thanks Mike@NZ good on you, seems hard work, both mentally and physically did it for you too.

        From the post of Kate Davis above: Thank you for sharing that. I feel that I can write this time and time again but it is individuals contributing their own circumstances that give the discussion authenticity.
        Works both ways…

  17. Darth Smith says:

    your so right any thing that contradicts the national party view of the reality is denied and as we seen with dirty politics they will use intimidation and bully tactics to shut down the messenger,one tory MP in the UK said food banks were a blite on society
    on planet key there are no poor and they dont want to see or hear about it either.