Labour sell out on 24 hour surveillance – how easily led are NZers really?

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Labour leader backs controversial anti-terror law

Labour has confirmed it will support new foreign fighter laws after changes including a softening of a planned 48-hour warrant-free period for spies.

“We accept there is an increased threat level and new measures are needed to ensure our security agencies can rapidly respond to terrorist threats,” Labour Leader Andrew Little said after a caucus meeting discussed changes hammered out at a select committee.

“Labour has ensured that all searches on potential terrorist activity will require a warrant except in cases of urgent and extreme risk. 

“Even in these circumstances, the Director of the Security and Intelligence Service will be required to immediately notify the Commissioner of Warrants and the Inspector General of Intelligence; and a warrant obtained within 24 hours, not the originally proposed 48 hours,” Little said.

It sounds like Labour are selling out on the SIS spy powers. Trying to claim 24hour warrantless spying is preferable to 48hour warrantless spying is a bit like claiming being head-butted is better than being punched. Sure one might be slightly less painful, but that’s a bloody thin silver lining you are desperately trying to describe as a tapestry..

If Labour believe that stopping the SIS from using warrantless spying on Economic and Commercial interests is a safeguard, think again. Each of those Economic and Commercial interests merely need to suggest terrorism is the threat that will damage those Economic or Commercial interests and the threshold for warrantless spying is met.

The defence that this evidence will need a warrant if the footage is to be eligible as legal evidence is a false promise. The SIS could use warrantless spying with no intention whatsoever of that footage reaching evidential thresholds if all they are after is intelligence.

With all that we now know about the GCSB and NSA sharing everything and the NSA’s ability to watch everything our SIS do, this footage would become immediately shareable with the bloody US intelligence community. Why would we open ourselves up to that?

This is the same SIS that has just been outed falsifying information to smear the Leader of the Opposition months out from an election via a far right hate speech blog. Giving them the power to break into our homes, plant spy cameras and film us without a warrant for 24hours when they have shown that they are more than happy to interfere in an election campaign is bewildering.

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Labour are rolling over on this to show the Deep State and the establishment that Labour are trust worthy enough to erode civil liberties when the system demands it. Labour over compensate for the Police state because they are frightened of being perceived as liberally soft by an authority worshipping muddle Nu Zilind. The mainstream media punditry won’t allow a Labour leader to become PM if he’s going to damage their interests, Cunliffe found that out, so Little must show he’ll play ball with the Spooks and give them all the extra powers they want. Remember, Shearer met secretly with Key to try and cut a deal on the GCSB legislation, so Labour are hardly the great defenders of our civil rights as they like to pay lip service to.

To ward off the sell out label, Labour will probably throw their activist base a bone in the form of coming out and saying no troops to Iraq. That way they get to look principled as they allow the bloody SIS to break into our homes whenever they feel the need for a fishing expedition.

The irony for Little is that these powers won’t be used against bloody terrorists because there aren’t any, they will be used to spy on Unions, Maori, Environmentalists, anti-poverty campaigners, TPPA activists and other protest movements.

There is not one actual justification for ramming these new spy powers through for agencies who have been caught out abusing those powers, Key can do it because the people of NZ rallied to him and gave him an incredible mandate to do whatever the bloody hell he wants.

The question must be, how easily led are NZers? There’s been no explanation as to why we suddenly need to re-invade Iraq and help guide drone strikes that kill dozens of civilians for every one ‘terrorist’. There’s been no explanation why the SIS need to break into our homes and plant spy cameras without warrants. There’s just been a lot of Muslim bashing fear mongering and irresponsible divisiveness by the Prime Minister to  spook NZers into relinquishing their rights, but no actual rational debate.

When Seven Sharp is the new bench march for public debate, that debate becomes wilful ignorance.

God defend NZ because, no other bugger is.

60 COMMENTS

  1. This is a woeful dereliction of duty by Labour. Why would having concessions made on the details change the fact that this Bill is wrong in principle. The right to privacy in one’s own home shouldn’t be thrown under the bus for political point scoring. Whether it’s for 48 hours or 24 makes little difference when the problem is with the intrusion into people’s homes for any length of time.

    There seems to be a lot being made about this cricket rubbish. If there are security concerns on an event being run by a private organisation, then let the market rule and have the businesses behind it pay for their own bloody security! I don’t see why my liberties should be stripped away because the National Party fears that people want to attack a bunch of people hitting a ball around.

    Boo! Boo and Shame, Labour!

  2. Martyn,

    Yes this is US domination again over our sovereignty is akin to what the Lange Government faced when US domination of the Globe over free access to Nuclear powered warships was contested by his Government in the 1980’s.

    It is about the will of other nations to impose their will over other sovereign states such as NZ in that case so Labour made a vital stand then and we should also do so today with the US master spying of the other sovereign states such as NZ, so it is a very similar systematic over ruling of US power here we should all be somewhat concerned about.

    Key is a agent of the US so we cant find support for NZ there but Labour should review their position and not just line-up behind the bully US here after Key did so eagerly.

    Shame on sell-out Key and his clone and we will watch Labour at Parliament today with concerns, as we feel Labour should not give open support but only a temporary three or six moth support at best while they see if it is really required.

    See are concerned that Key is also beating the war drum while he pushes this agenda, so is he now advocating we go to war?

    With whom then and why, and who will pay for it and how since we owe near 90 billion in global debt while Australia only owes 50 Billion?

  3. Hear hear Bomber, the only ‘thin silver lining’ I can think of is that I assume other ‘average’ people around the (western) world are as dumb as the ‘average’ Kiwi CLEARLY is.
    It is almost too difficult to remember ALL the lies and broken promises JKeyXStoke has ‘managed’, or the number of occasions the press have conveniently ‘gone walkabout’ when they should be asking the hard Q’s, or the number of stupid breakfast time TV ‘interviews’ by ‘patsy make believe interviewers’ or finally the number of occasions our spooks have been caught out doing GROSSLY illegal things against OUR democracy YET have been REWARDED with greater powers which will severely limit our ability to ‘catch them out’, when they INEVITABLY break the law and-or spirit of the law.
    …….And they accused the German people of being responsible for Hitler-attrocities, because how could they NOT know what was going one……..D’Oh
    Well Kiwis are happy that we help drone strikes kill 10’s of innocent people per ‘terrorist’ and kill the odd Kiwi, by just saying NOTHING. So see how easy it is to con the-any public into allowing fascist-extremist Governments take over more and more civil liberties?

    When they came for the Jews I said nothing as I wasn’t Jewish
    When they came for the Gypsies I said nothing as I wasn’t a Gypsy
    etc etc etc
    When they (finally) came for me, it was too late (to say any thing)

    NZ you have been warned !!!…….but are you reading or sleep walking through life?????

  4. Great article – but why blame NZer’s ??? They worked out Labour was not protecting their interests as NationalLite + taxes so they did not vote for them. The public are not so stupid as bloggers seem to think – the election was not pro National it was NO to Labour. Many are exasperated with the political system that has parties with ‘brands’ but very similar policies in particular around security and war. Many people want more human rights not less. Those that try something radical like InternetMana are attacked by all, from the Greens to Conservatives. They could have been in Parliament – it was Labour that stopped that not National. Yep Andrew Little only got a round of applause when he told Key to ‘Cut the Crap’ but he needs to ‘Cut the Crap’ because as you rightly point out going from 24 hrs to 48hrs is not really achieving much and is in my view just NationalLite. Hmmm I feel voters got it right by not endorsing Labour and I am ex Labour. The other thing is that for the 3 days of debate around this bill, the MSM actually said bad things about Key and good things about Little but Labour did not even understand the canny timing. Don’t blame the voters cos I went to party websites on the days around this bill. Labour’s issues were about state houses, Greens about Australian Greens doing well and Maori about council representation. Yep they had a little bit about the bill but it was not really as any sort of main feature. No wonder people don’t vote and are disconnected from politics – who can you believe any more?

    • Pathetic to say the least ‘Andrew Little’ ….I am gutted, but of course, not surprised…grow a brain Labour and stop buying into the whole bullshit ‘war on Terror’ are they so stupid and or wilfully ignorant or are they just down right unapologetic, ‘idiot sycophants’ to the ‘one world order’ powers that be.???

      • Its very suspect that all parties rubbished Internet /Mana. They would have been the only ones who would have stood up to the crooked Mps.
        All of parliament must be in the hands of big business and very afraid of kim dot com.
        We are already owned by the cabal ,we are their Hawaii in the pacific,their jewel in the crown,and the locals who can be taken over and manipulated the same as was done to native hawaii people. Andrew Little is tarred with the same brush,he agrees with Key about surveillance at our cost, none of the parties are calling for Keys resignation .How can we survive a cabal that has been practising world domination since before the first world war,millions slaughtered at the behest of the cabal ,Hitler was the puppet then, just for power and greed, we fall for it every time, the military even fight to support the cabal but believed they were fighting for their country,pacifists who were the intelligent fighters were treated like cowards.
        Even when told the truth it was to hard to cope with and were easily convinced it was a conspiracy theory which the cabal used over and over again, well 2015 is the year the gullible public will realise it wasn’t a theory but a reality.

    • Excellent letter. NZ s a great deal poorer for not having Harawira, Harre Minto and Sykes in parliament and they were dealt to by National, Labour the Greens and Winston.

  5. Did we really expect anything else from Labour? I certainly didn’t. The Greens are still a far better proposition, regardless of making noises that suggest a tack to a more centre ground. They will be voting against this soon to be Act of Parliament and offer the only progressive option in the Beehive. Come next election I’ll be voting for the Green candidate and giving my part vote to Mana.

    • Actually, Labour will still probably get my candidate vote since stopping Nicky Wagner from being a three term leach is paramount.

  6. What’s wrong with you people? Do you honestly think Labour and Andrew Little are stupid?

    The enemy here is National, not Labour. The Nats can do whatever the hell they please, regardless if the entire Opposition jump up and down and vote against everything.

    Bomber, I’m disappointed in your recent lack of support. How quickly you have forgotten that Andrew Little is the kick the Left needed, so you could do a little better (yea, pun) at supporting him.

    Little has applied serious pressure to our corrupt PM for over a week now without buckling at all, meanwhile wrangling the fractious Labour caucus into order with a carefully considered and clever reshuffle, continuing to work on matters of policy, and opposing National’s reprehensible new law changes in Employment Relations. Even the horrible Seven Sharp ran an article critical of Key (will Little wonders never cease?) where a behavioural psychologist analysed Key’s body language to conclude that he was telling porkies…

    So why do so many lefties feel it necessary to bash Labour (instead of the true enemy, National)? This post is a good example, bashing Labour over their attempts to get National to voluntarily lessen the impact of their repressive new spying laws, even though Key could have rammed them through unchanged with Seymour and Dunne alone. So you are wrong to say Labour has sold out. The left needs to buck their ideas up, and support the push to take down Key long before 2017, instead of unfairly bagging Labour, because in what I have read from you lately, you are effectively doing the rightwing bloggers’ jobs for them. Shame.

    • I think the reason for the disappointment in Labour on this matter is that people expected them to oppose it. By that I don’t mean, push for concessions or a lesser version of it, but actually oppose the increase in surveillance powers being given to an intelligence agency which has just this week been shown to have acted immorally.

      Parties need to stand for the principles they hold, not for the votes they can win. When they start doing that, the votes will follow.

        • It would have shown the level of opposition to legislative changes which impinge on our human rights. It would have shown the Labour Party to be a party that stands for what it believes in, rather than chasing votes of people who have been scared into believing there is a terrorist under every bed.

          It’s a long-term stance which I believe would have helped both the Labour Party and the people of New Zealand. The National Party would not have been able to claim that there was support for the changes if Labour hadn’t signed up for this.

    • Oh for goodness sake, the law should not be passed in any way shape or form with the support of Labour END OF STORY

          • Which would have made zero difference and the law would have been passed as was. At least some modification was achieved

            • Exactly Rae et al – and moreover, even if Key had always planned to allow ‘modifications’ in order to look magnanimous (as some have suggested) that sure backfired – with all the pummeling he received last week from Little he just looks as if he’s backed down to a stronger opponent – all good for Labour.
              I’m also fed up with the implication in Bradbury’s and others’ posts that everything Labour does is merely a ‘tactic’, designed to appease some voting bloc or other, and nothing to do with genuine conviction that they are taking the best course of action.

    • Yep we do honestly think Labour and Little are stupid. Becoming the ‘watered down version of National’ is not what Labour voter’s want – and we still live in a democracy (fast being eroded) so we can say if we agree with Labour or not. Which if Labour is listening they should actually take heed. Some people believe in a better future not National with a red brand of NationalLite. And yes it is a trap, National know if they ram it through without Labour and Maori agreeing then they will be labeled facist. Far more canny to in list your enemy into agreeing the legislation so that you have not come back later. Labour could have got huge political leverage – Moms and Dads don’t want SIS spying on them without warrants – but nope as usual totally out maneuvered by National and MSM and end up mimicking National rightwing policies but with a ‘lighter’ version.

      • Whatyou say is true to a point but if Little is so smart he would have got more kudos from voting against any surveillance. Cunliffe did the same a few shots across Nationals bow , gave the election to Key because they were so afraid of criticsm, or worked for the result on orders from others.

    • What a woofer of an argument there David. How bloody brilliant of you to stay in two opposing forces argument. That somehow the left is better than the right. Labour is better than national world you live in. For many of us Labour are just the same corporate elects as national, just with a nicer smile.

      This game playing of take down Key, what utter rubbish, what a waste of space, what a silly wee lie born from vulgar dualism. If you have not woken up to the fact that the lines are no longer left and right, but pro capitalist and everyone else – then…

      This parliamentary side show of lies and spin is nothing more than the corporations will allow. Welcome david to a brave new world, part 1984, part a sunken Island. We.

    • “Do you honestly think Labour and Andrew Little are stupid?”
      Not stupid, just weak and unprincipled.

      “The enemy here is National, not Labour.”
      The enemy is anyone who betrays national security for political gains.

      “Little has applied serious pressure to our corrupt PM for over a week now without buckling at all”
      NZ’s political system itself is corrupt, Key is just a symptom of that.

  7. Look its all about an Anzac force protecting the weak, vulnerable and exploited, okay??. We don’t have those types in Godzone, well maybe those working on minimum wages perhaps but who cares? Just imagine there may be no relevance to Anzac day if some visionary leader does not dispatch a few more to their deaths for some inexplicable reason some time soon.

    Of course it would take a dishonest opportunist to even mention Anzac’s in such as way but hey John’s in a hole with the whole dirty politics thing being a little difficult with Cam getting all frisky as of late, so spying on your own with state sanction is the next best thing, possibly even better!

  8. Like, constant accommodation with the Republicans has worked soooo well for Obama. No lessons to learn there.

  9. Until Little can speak to the facts regarding state sponsored terrorism he’s got nothing of value to say about security threats.

    Calling it conspiracy theory avoids inconvenient facts like how the MSM narrative can’t account for the energy signature of the destruction of the WTC buildings.

  10. Labour is just continuing their love affair with the SIS and denial of civil rights, as we saw with Ahmed Zaoui and Tuhoe. If they gave a running fuck for our rights, heads would have rolled after those incidents. And how many more that we don’t know about?

    Labour is not our friend.

  11. Martyn, PLEASE stop using the term “spying”.

    It casts an almost comical (ie -not to be taken seriously) air around what the real purpose of mass surveillance is..
    ( Hence Popular reaction: ” Whatever. I’ve got nothing to hide, so this Mass Surveillance doesn’t really bother me. He he)

    What they are doing is collecting data.

    It’s to sort out dissenters (ie independent thinkers) from sheep

    I really wish all you folks would detach from the Tiny Picture –

    ie- Quit focussing on “National vs Labour”, NZ politics..
    because it’s a distraction that prevents you from grasping the proper perspective.
    You surely are aware that it’s not only in NZ that things are going “VERY wrong”!

    For those of you who still watch the Telly (ie MSM) for info about the world, I can only laugh & weep at your naivety.

    Many of you think it’s Fascism that’s creeping in.
    Well, you are WRONG.
    It is far worse. It is Communism. It already controls the Global Media

    (HA! Do you naively believe that Communism is visible, and shows up with cannons & guns ??? – Again I laugh & cry!)

    Anyway, in the future, (we in NZ are still a bit behind ) all dissenters will be gotten rid of…

    • Communism or Fascism – whatever – either way it’s totalitarianism, state control, loss of freedom and repression.
      I don’t think the top label is that important – the effect is the same – just that with Communism the justification is it for you own (society’s) good.

    • You obviously don’t have a clue what communism is, apart from something used to scare small children during the Cold War.

    • What a nutjob. It is clearly Fascism.

      “The communist disdains to conceal their views and aims..”

      Further, Communism is a progressive ideology. It’s objective is individual liberty, not tyranny. Just because some idiots hijacked a revolution based on these progressive, communist principles and turned their countries into human rights abusing dictatorships doesn’t make them communist.

      Know your political ideologies. Communism is one that people seem to deeply misunderstand.

  12. Saddest thing is that once again Winston Peters (whom I do not admire) has taken the best opposition role on this issue. No wonder NZ first keeps surviving. Not that I think it should have.

        • phew you had me worried then, thought you had lost your bottle or was thinking of emigrating,not a bad idea ,but allthe countries are in the same boat.

        • The dolphins had long known of the impending demolition of Earth and had made many attempts to alert mankind to the danger…The last ever dolphins message was misinterpreted as a surprisingly sophisticated attempt to do a double backward somersault through a hoop whilst whistling “The Star-Spangled Banner,” but in fact the message was this: “So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish.”

          —Douglas Adams, The Hitchhiker’s Guide to the Galaxy

  13. Labour was going to take a hit on this whichever way it went. Damned if you do, damned if you don’t. You can’t be seen in any way to be supporting crims and terrorists and if Labour had opposed it the MSM would have had a field day roasting Little for being a traitor. The same people will now roast Little for “selling out” basic human rights principles. I don’t think Labour had much choice really. We have already seen in the last campaign that being principled is a pathway to oblivion so they have got to get real. Sad, but true.

    • Labour was going to take a hit on this whichever way it went.

      Disagree, there was little or no danger in maintaining the status quo on this one.

    • @MIKE THE LEFTY – You are right, Labour are in a no win situation. There is little doubt that things have turned toxic in Syria and Iraq and given half a chance elsewhere in that part of the world. Just how bad it is who knows because all we get is what we hear and see from the MSM. There appears to be similar in Northern Kenya originating from Somalia as well. It simply looks like the disaffected see this as a free for all. And this is being sold to the masses like the domino effect of communism was back in mid 20th century.

      Therefore a huge consideration for Labour is that they are dealing with a fairly dishonest government who by second nature manufacture crises and manipulate statistics and events to suit their daily agenda that seems to pass the media by. So what should they do? On the statistical long odds anything might ever happen in NZ and it did or more likely was misrepresented to have occurred then Labour would be thrown to the wolves for not supporting more security and it would be long-term damage. They are better to participate in some way to control Key as much as they can and hope like anything that this is Nationals last term.

      • Agreed. There is little doubt that National has talked up the risks and manufactured a crisis so it can be seen as taking action to protect us all. Of course the MSM Nationalphiles are swallowing it all. This all goes to show how good National are at cynically manipulating public opinion, knowing full well that when they talk something up the case will be enthusiastically taken up by their media toadies. Pretty sickening really. Expect National to spin a few terrorist threats out of thin air to justify it all.

    • How were they principled in the last campaign? Certainly not in the way they shat all over Mana. Maybe it was wanting us to work, or be hassled by WINZ, for a couple more years?

    • That is exactly it, but it’s not sad – creative compromise is the name of the game in a situation like this, and fortunately, in the eyes of many, Little is seen to have wrought important concessions from Key. All good, and it’s not over yet.

  14. Fuck it. We might as well install surveillance vidcams in every room, in ever house and workplace and school, and be done with it. Then we can employ the 200,000 unemployed to monitor all the surveillance cameras and we will finally have reached perfect Security Nirvana!

    (While we’re about it, lets do awaywith all those pesky political parties. And Parliament. Far cheaper to have one President For Life. Less hassle. I’m sure Key will be up for it. New Zealanders won’t even notice…….)

    • the irony is you don’t need people to monitor video streams, algorithms do it. every time I hear someone say ” well, the’ll get bored watching me” I cringe, ( no offence), 1 computer can monitor 40-50 video streams, look for movement patterns, image, face, gesture recognition. measure the gate of footsteps, people with limps who didn’t have them 10 minutes ago, people who look guilty. people with hot(temp) bodies, people talking with others. tie it all together and you have more data than any human will ever know how to handle. It’s here now and it’s too late

  15. It didn’t take Little long to show his true colours.I.S. is the private army of Prince Bandar of S.A.They are trained by American special forces.I.S.get their arms through Turkey.D.W t.v. from germany have a doco on this.I.S. fighters get medical treatment in Israel!This Israeli think tank wish written back in 1982 seems to have been granted.A Strategy for Israel in the Nineteen Eighties.by Oded Yinon.Sending our troops to middle east is barking mad.Maybe these IS fighters get here courtesy of a Israeli passport .
    These surveillance measures are needed for TPPA. Long live inverted totalitarianism.[every natural resource and every living being is commodified and exploited to collapse, as the citizenry are lulled and manipulated into surrendering their liberties and their participation in govt.through excess consumerism and sensationalism.Seldon Wolin]

  16. While this is a perfectly valid thread, and there are many good posts here,.. I think this is symptomatic ..and the direct the result of those who iniated these issues in the first place.

    And while it may not excuse Labours stance , and it certainly may not impress the Left…the focus needs to be kept on Key. It was and is his dirty political brand that has orchestrated ALL of these conditions.

    So while we have Slater and Farrar pandering up to the Israeli Likud party , being paid to write articles endorsing their aggressive policies – and being financed to do so, …we have the other end of the spectrum with Key pandering up to the USA …completeing the picture.

    Key with his TTPA . his ‘anti terror’ measures, – of which any terror is of his own making for several reasons :

    1) involving us in an undeclared war in the middle east.
    2) creating the conditions whereby we are seen to be complicit in creating war.
    3) Because of this , it gives justification to pass ludicrous bills (or attempt to ) which ARE NOT designed against terrorism – but the home population. Simply to tighten monitoring of the public.

    And so the SIS monitors Slater, ( Israel and Mossad are monitored by the five eyes spy network ) and Slater records evrything Key says over the years, – and holds that against him as leverage.

    Do you all remember Helen Clarke sniffing in disdain about ‘ the USA ‘?….and also speaking in less than flattering terms about ‘Israel and its spies’?….

    Well these are many of the reasons she did.

    And while Little may not be popular for his current choices…never loose sight of the real culprit. The real liar. Which is of course John XkeySCORE – being blackmailed and led around by the nose by a paid commentator for the Israeli right wing neo liberal Likud party who keeps tabs on every electronic form of communications hes ever had with the ‘ prime minister’. A puppet on a string , – both of them.

    These are the ones to keep up the pressure on, THEY are the root cause of this dangerous anti democratic situation we find ourselves in.

    • To those who criticize Labour for backing the amended bill. Is it better to rigidly oppose something that is bad, or make a compromise and try to make it not so bad ? bearing in mind that National would probably have had the numbers to pass it unaltered (with the help of their ACT doormat). We all have different opinions of that, my contention is that Labour must have weighed up the pros and cons and decided that a less draconian bill with their support was overall a better outcome. Whether you think they are right or wrong is a personal opinion. I personally would have preferred them to oppose it all the way but this is the real world – you can’t win ’em all.

  17. Here’s the irony; the Right are always bleating about reducing the role ofd the State in our lives…

    (Yeah, you can see where this is going…)

    And yet the Nats have passed four laws (counting) which increase the power of State agencies to surveil us; collect data; and increase search and seizure. Now they’re talking about secret video surveillance in our homes and cancelling passports?!

    Good lord, it’s like the Nats have been studying Stasi-style operation tactics!

    So much for getting the State out of our lives. That may be the case with liberalising consumer laws, labour laws, etc – but politically this country is now more repressive than ever.

    It’s unbelievable what a popular PM can get away with. Truly, the Hobbits are asleep…

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