Terrifying Nation today on TV3. Chris Finlayson is on justifying the Government’s Muslim fear mongering and extension of even more surveillance powers.
It was jaw dropping.
Finlayson says ‘alienated people with a chip on their shoulder’ is the threshold to get onto the terrorist watch list and admits that it doesn’t need to be religion based. That means environmentalists, Unionists, Maori activists – anyone who challenges the status quo is a possible target for these spying powers.
That’s why Andrew Little’s acceptance of 48 hour warrantless searches is so disappointing.
Based on Finlayson’s definition – anyone reading this blog qualifies to be on the terror list.
The sleepy hobbits of muddle Nu Zilind have been led to believe these new warrantless spying powers will be aimed at the ‘other’, when the reality is everyone is the ‘other’ under these new powers.
The SIS, along with the NZ Police, can now break into your home, plant spy cameras and spy on you for 48 hours without a warrant. These are gross fishing expeditions which severely erode our civil liberties. The claim that the evidential threshold will impose strict interpretations of these powers is nonsense, if the SIS or Police are merely attempting to collect intelligence, they have no need to reach the evidential threshold.
No one is made safer by this bullshit.
If Helen Clark had tried this on, the NZ Herald would be calling for open revolution. Key can lie about war, lie about spying and indulge in the most corrupt dirty politics and he is loved for it.
We get the Government we deserve.
In the spirit of updating things, the flag and all that, maybe Finlayson can modernise in marketing style the Security Intelligence Service. I can see the new name now and the logo badge on his collar.
SS.
SS (Scary Suckers)
When I first heard that on “The Nation” this morning, I immediatley thought, “well, that has to include me…”
Well, it seems my parent’s needn’t have bothered escaping Eastern Europe after all. New Zealand was about to join the ranks of Surveillance States anyway.
And all this because five so-called “jihadists” are in the Middle East, in a war?
Did this country react with such unfettered paranoia after French state-terrorists bombed the Rainbow Warrior?
It is an apt comparison–the kiwi surveillance state–with Eastern European ones and I would add Hitler’s Germany and McCarthy’s USA and anywhere else informants are used to snitch on other citizens. The difference today being extreme digital technology and the 5 Eyes buddy system with the Aussies, Yanks, Brits and Cannucks.
The latest “48 hour sneak and peek” adds to the formidable established cache of compliance measures the GCSB, SIS and police special ops can now turn on their fellow kiwis along with Auckland Transport’s front seat occupant and vehicle ID traffic cams.
Please excuse the long list following but I have a point to make; tough new labour laws, union busting, high unemployment, precarious and underemployment, alienated and atomised groups that previously identified as working class, zero hours, unpaid internships, education and health cuts, state house sales and continued privatisation, Māori and bennie bashing all put pressure on people not to organise at pain of possibly “coming to the attention of the authorities”. Increased spying capacity is a control mechanism for the domestic population more than any kind of legitimate ‘threat’ detection measure. People should start using cash again and pay as you go phones if they want some minimal freedom to go about their lives unmolested by the modern heirs of the grubby “pie and Penthouse” brigade.
Heartening signs are the growing public awareness over the secretive TPP negotiations and residual incremental followup on the Nats Ede/Slater/Collins dirty tricks. It will just take one or two breakthroughs and Snowden and Greenwald will be back on the agenda again. Plus most importantly more action is needed on the street and in government offices against the “corporate Pirates Charter” aka TPPA.
No, no it’s all O.K as Chris is utterly outraged at the mere mention of McCarthyism, so we are all safe, only the bad guys will be listened to.
Aug 2013, calling Dame Ann Salmond “shrill and unprofessional” for daring to suggest the GCSB bill was concerning, and may lead to……..
That’s you and me comrades!
Brothers and sisters, we will be on the ‘List,’ if not now, then very soon.
I always question and challenge the status quo and like most contributors and posters to this site, I suspect my name will be up there in all its shining glory … “TO BE WATCHED FOR LIKELY SUBVERSIVE ACTIVITY,” no doubt!
One question … while we are being carefully monitored, who is keeping a close watch on the watchers?
This has everything to do with The Great New Zealand Institutionalised Lie in my view .
The entire affair has been dipped in stolen money .
And I’ll keep saying , the last election was rigged until it’s clearly proven otherwise .
The time to start worrying is now .
“Alienated people with a chip on their shoulder…”!!!! Thats means an extremely large group of people in Christchurch who are in dispute with EQC, EQR/Fletchers, Southern Response, gNat Guvmint and transnational insurance companies such as AIG/Vero/Tower etc, qualify as needing surveillance as possible terrorists. Grey Power should be alarmed.
I’m at a loss with Christchurch. If it’s as bad as you say and this was also reported for the last few years, why did they overwhelmingly give their party vote to National along side Nat MP’s? Clearly things aren’t as bad as they’re made out to be!
And on Finlayson and his worrying profile that is nothing less than a barely veiled threat to anyone who dares question National. He comes across as a rather cold, miserable little man but a personality that makes him the perfect advocate of labelling critics of his government as a threat!
Where does that leave us lot who are up in arms about the TPPA?
Exactly.
Where does it leave political discussion.
It appears john Key Did Use the GCSB for political purposes before the election, so whats to stop him from using this law.
Yep…we sure do get the government we deserve. But ,…I wonder how this state surveillance affects other laws that (formerly ?) prevented using certain visual evidence AS admissable evidence ?
There were laws regarding digital /visual recordings…they used to be quite strict. Im wondering if some remnant of these same laws still exist…and can they then be used to turn the tables on the very state apparatus who seek to use these techniques on us?
Laws regarding privacy. Also…has their been an overwhelming MANDATE in the form of a public referenda from the New Zealand public that has given the green light for this govt to enable these law changes?….if so ,…I cant recall one being held?
Was there a terrorist bombing crisis in the beehive recently? Did I miss something here?
And is this an admission that the whole SIS ,GSCB spy agency thing is , was and always will be an impotent waste of time and public money? What was wrong with things before all these changes?….were they THAT hopeless and inefficient?…are they still hopeless and inefficient?
Is New Zealand society that crammed full of deviants, terrorists and malcontents that Key and his mates feel justified with all this snooping?…..if so ,….why doesnt he go back to Hawaii where he feels more welcome?
We didnt notice the place crawling with car bombers a year ago….why the suddden change?
Key , – I think your bullshitting us. And jerks like you give me a fucking big chip on my shoulder I can tell you. Why?….because your a fucking totalitarian smarmy arrogant prick who hates the people and country of your own birth . Piss off back to whereever you come from mate if you dont like it here – and leave us decent Kiwis alone.
L00L……had a good laugh this morning in reading the Herald .
After listening to Patrick Gower interviewing Chris Finlayson last night…with Gower ignoring all the platitiudes and questioning Finlayson about the guy who fled the country to Brazil, and Finlayson earnestly stating ‘measures are being taken to ensure that doesnt happen again’ ………..then to contrast that with all the new fascist anti terror surveillance measures such as 48 hours camera surveillance without a warrant , compilation of terror lists for anyone with a ‘chip on their shoulders’…..
What do we read in todays Herald ?!!? – we now find that another character fled to Brisbane on a legitimate passport while breaking the conditions of release….the second case in a week.
So with all thier new measures…these National ministers are trying to convince the public they are capable and TRUSTWORTHY enough to curtail OUR civil rights to justify THEIR globalist agendas when they cant even deal with a simple domestic issue such as this.
I tell you , people…….if bullshit was a penny a pound these dorks would be millionaires…
Oh wait…..Keys a millionaire…..
Hmmm…well I guess that old saying is quite true then after all…I dont think Ive ever known a politician who tells as much total bullshit as this bastard.
Will this include the Act party because they don’t get what they want fast enough?. Of course it won’t include the conservative as Colin Craig is far too cheerful.
What a piss poor excuse to use for watching one and all, everybody that doesn’t support Key, his minions and his puppeteers, is an active target for the sole purpose of spying, so as to weed out those of us that won’t bow down to capitalist ideals of rule, power and greed. Come on Key, cut your bullshit lies and say what’s gotta be said, instead of ducking and diving from the truth and hiding behind your hats and skirts.
Where does that leave Chris Finlayson, if ever there was a muppet with a chip on his shoulder?
Isis = failed state if there ever was one.
So the joke is on us.
A cautionary tale from Australia:
I’m with you CB, it was rigged, for sure. To many stood to lose ‘to much’.
I got a chip on my shoulder, because a few state agencies treated me like crap, and covered up their staff’s professional misconduct. So yes, I must have a chip on my shoulder, as I cannot accept such bureaucrats to get away with nothing short of illegal conduct.
And the other day, I watched a video on You Tube that had ISIS fighters in it, waving their arms around, and their flag, and yes, I must be a terrorist now, simply because I watched this. It is not relevant, I presume, that I just watched it to find out what is actually going on, and how mad these extremist fighters may be.
So hallo Mr Finlayson, I am here, do not forget to tap into my internet connection and phone communications again, as I must be a major suspect, a sympathiser perhaps?!
Hi,
You can argue about the highness or the lowness of the threshold to get on this list all you like, but why is there this concern about it being people other than those whose views are based on religious extremism?
Tim McVeigh wasn’t a religious nutter. Neither was the unibomber. White supremicists aren’t religious nutters. ISIS is just the flavour of the terrorist month.
Cheers, Greg.
Hi,
Because ISIS is being used as the scary bogeyman for the easily led, when the reality is that it will be used against all activists.
Sleepy hobbits don’t see that yet and Finlayson admitted that was exactly what they were intending to do.
cheers
Indeed, Martyn. I recall in the ’70s and ’80s, the great bogeyman was the ex-Soviet Union and the Socialist Unity Party here in NZ.
Curiously, the fear of a Third World War was stronger in Europe – Eastern Europe more so – who were shitting themselves than an increasingly erratic and sabre-rattling Reagan would “put the birds in the air”, and spark an atomic holocaust that would leave much of the planet a radioactive wasteland.
My rellies in Hungary had little love for the autocrats in the Kremlin – but they feared Reagan even more.
When governments use bogeymen to scare a gullible populace and compliant MSM, that is when they can really increase their power over us.
In the 70’s and 80’s non-one in Eastern Europe had a clue what was really going on in Reagan’s America because of the control the USSR had over the media and people’s lives. The soviet era descended into a disgraceful abuse of human rights and a failed economic system. Just as well it was the great bogeyman, eh Frank!
Untrue, Nehemia.
In fact, I happened to live in one of those Eastern European countries for nearly a year, and people were very well informed. Especially when the US wanted to install Pershing II and cruise missiles in Western Europe. The fear of an outbreak of WW3 was wide-spread.
Hi,
You’re missing the point. It should be used against all boogeymen if they’re out there to cause mayhem. I don’t care if they’re religious nutters, white supremicists, maori activists, anarchists or hactivists. If they have plans to destroy my society they should be watched. I see no reason to restrict this activity to ISIS recruits.
Cheers, Greg.
Hi,
And you are missing my point. Easily led sheep are prepared to hand over their civil rights for bogeymen, I am saying there are plenty of powers to stop those seeking to destroy your precious society Greg, but you are hell bent on handing the state vast new surveillance powers to break into our homes, plant spy cameras and spy on us for 48 hours without a warrant all because John Key said ‘boo’.
Cheers
Hi,
I’m not hell bent on anything. I have the same concerns as you and every other kiwi. But that was never the point of my posts.
Martyn, you mentioned trade unionists, maori activists and anyone who threatens the status quo as being in the gun. My question to you is so what? Is there some reason that these groups should be exempt from being monitored if they are threatening to cause trouble? Are they so precious?
Now despite everything else that has been said in this thread, my only point from the absolute beginning has been that all should be equal before the law. I don’t care if its militant vegans or the Parnell knitting society. If they are threatening to cause mayhem etc they should be subject to exactly the same protocols and procedures as ISIS supporters. If they pose the same threat as ISIS supporters they should be treated the same.
But you seem outraged that these particular groups should be considered as targets for monitoring, purely on the basis of their cause. That’s not fair.
Cheers, Greg.
I think this hinges on what you mean when you say “destroy my society.”
In the view of some people, those who believe that Karl Marx’s critique of capitalism were accurate are out to “destroy society.” I’m sure many at the time of Gallileo thought that his heretical ideas of the earth revolving around the sun meant he was out to “destroy society”, too.
The problem occurs when those who agitate for change are considered in the same league as those who wish to “destroy society” – they are not the same thing, but are considered as such by intelligence agencies. Government agencies now routinely spy on anyone they consider a threat to the status quo – Greenpeace, student unions, anti-TPP organisations, etc. The vast majority of these organisations simply wish to put forward a narrative which is contradictory to that being sold by the representatives of empire (government bough by big business). They have no ambition to kill or maim people in the streets.
The powers that be are trying to stop anyone from constructing a narrative which says “this is not the best society we can live in”, because changing the structure of society to suit the needs of the people doesn’t serve the interests of big business.
Also, it’s “our society”, not yours.
Yet I saw Finlayson himself jumping up and down in pail ament when the bill was passed, saying how preposterous it was to suggest McCarthyism as a by-product, can’t say I am reassured Mr.Finlayson
@ Kim Dandy . Thanks for your support .
Furthermore ; define ‘ terrorism ‘ ?
Allowing young people to become indebted to foreign Banks on grossly over inflated Auckland ( As an example ) House prices , while others still borrow down against the deliberately manufactured capital gains on homes isn’t terrorism ? ( You see nick smith using snake-words to slither around the uncomfortable edges of limp questions lobbed at him on Q & A this morning ? )
Deliberately creating an entire poverty culture to support foreign Bank asset trading by using debt as an off-shore profit generating mechanism of which the poor are collateral damage isn’t terrorism ?
Turning human beings into greedy , sociopathic monsters via a now privilege based tertiary education system to feed the Bank Machine isn’t terrorism ?
And now this ? The anxiety of the spectre of secret surveillance at any time by The Corporate jonky-Bot just because we don’t like the little cunt/prick ? Or his flakey , greasy , deviant , fat , festering minions ? WHO ARE PAID BY US TO DO THIS TO US !
Isn’t that terrorism ?
The more I come to realise that I may be getting through with my theory with regard to The Great New Zealand Institutionalised Lie the more I watch for The Dreaded Red Dot .
If I disappear ? You will know what happened .
I have many NZ news papers and magazines collected and it’s amazing to read of how NZ / Aotearoa rose up through the ranks from the late 1800’s to become known as the Market Garden of Europe .
Most reportage was about the vibrant provinces . Not , as I heard one dickhead recently describe those same provinces to include ‘ Zombie Towns ‘ .
Kiwi people were scattered all over both Islands ( No disrespect to Stweart and ? Islands .
My point is ; nothings changed . We are an agrarian country . And there are more off-shore people out there than ever before just screaming out for what we produce and yet we have no money . We do have a massive per capita debt , an fiscal absurdity that is Auckland and financial cancer zones that used to be vibrant provincial towns . We had a blunt arsed , worthless little man called pig ( no disrespect to actual pigs ) muldoon DELIBERATELY pull up our rail lines leading into the main stay of our economy AND , and was seen getting off a plane from Switzerland after it became common knowledge that he had a numbered Swiss bank account . I mean WTF ?
All this terrorism gibberish is a whitewash . Sure , there are a motley few beardy faces popping off their pop guns with their dick in one hand and their AK in the other ; like that’s new for young men .
( Is it ISIS that has warships off the coast of AU ? Is it a Muslim terrorist that’s saying the Russians are a threat to the world ? Is it a group of dusty , shrieking , religious nutters running around in a twenty year old Japanese 4×4’s that has the combined fire power to end all life on earth ? )
Are those same terrorists here , watching our every move , as we watch TV , walk the dog , club our women , ignore our kids , vote Corporate Jonky-Bot ? Nah mate .
Could it be that Corporate Jonky-Bot is using the ISIS / logical fallacy opportunity to in fact send out a thinly veiled threat to all us activists who are getting for too close to a very , very uncomfortable truth for the Riche Elite ? Or crooks , if you prefer .
Without wanting to self aggrandise , I bet Corporate jonky-bot would paint wee jazza brownlee fluro pink , blow him up full of helium and float him above parliament buildings to distract us from the above . Come to think of it ? That might actually work . Lets give it a go ?
Those few old bastards who have our wealth will do anything to stop the unstoppable Truth .
Now that is what I call an all encompassing post! You could just slap this one on just about any thread on TDB. Always nice to see like-minded people that genuinely “get it” – the pressing issue of the day is pretty much ALWAYS reducible to “money/wealth” (theirs) and/or “debt/servitude” (ours).
Forget about reds under the bed, it will be the blue boys under the bed.
“Spooks in the attic?”
I well remember “reds under the bed” being one of the scare mantras of a gentleman who became “honourable”. There’s irony in that the messengers for the new fear should actually be the focus and concern of our fears.
The “honourable” who purported to be our vigilant protector was a certain Banks. Yes, Banks of the John variety.
It’s sad the interviewer didn’t challenge him about it, it’s exactly how things don’t make their way into the public forum until it gets media coverage so left unchallenged by the mainstream media it doesn’t strike people even slightly thought control. Not even to mention the rest of the interview.
“Alienated people with a chip on their shoulder” – I guess this means WhaleBoil Slater has been added to the terrorist watch list along with the nearly 1 million people who actively voted for a party other than National.
As I often say to friends: If I’m not on a list, someone isn’t doing their job..
I’m a pacifist and don’t belief in violence but like discussing ideas, that’s what makes me dangerous.
FYI-
Dear Government Communications Security Bureau,
Minister Finlayson on a televison interview this weekend identified a new cohort in the war against terror, now subject to warrantless surveillance
“alienated people with a chip on their shoulder”
The information I require is as follows:
Is the GCSB aware of this group?
Who have these people been alienated from?
Has the GCSB tried alternative interventions for these alienated people- such as ringing their mothers and asking them to ‘play the game’?
Is the GCSB aware of any connection between this group and the group known as
‘Fair dinkum Kiwi lads who are a chip off the old block’.
Do members of this group have just one chip on one shoulder? Or are there some with more than one chip, on both shoulders?
Could this group be just the chip of the iceberg?
And lastly GCSB- Is there any proof whatsoever that Minister Finlayson, like his father John Key, is not a reptilian shapeshifter come to power, to shoulder our concerns, now that the chips are down?
Yours faithfully, true blue loyal run of the mill average good Kiwi bloke- with no issues or problems with the current administration – God bless the queen etc. I love rugby and I have nothing to hide.
My fears of NZ becoming a police state & that of Key being a dictator in waiting have come true.
[…] powers against activists, so the SIS will gain them and do it instead. On The Nation last weekend, Chris Finlayson let slip the most important aspect of this new power, that it won’t be just used against religious groups. This time around the bogeymen being […]
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