A brief word on reinvading Iraq

By   /   September 30, 2014  /   36 Comments

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Seeing how most NZers reacted to mass surveillance and dirty politics by rallying to Key, the sick thing about NZ right now is that Key might win 2017 if he invades Iraq.

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What’s the difference between John Key and a Drone? Nothing, both are remote controlled by Washington.

 

So after telling the country before the election that NZ would not send forces to Iraq, lo and behold now he’s won the election with a full spectrum dominance political majority, Key is suddenly now looking to join the re-invasion of Iraq.

The irony of reinvading Iraq after it was the devastating instability of the previous Western invasion for weapons of mass destruction that never existed to fight a new extremism we’ve generated is totally lost on most sleepy hobbits who have been as spooked as Australians with the latest ‘terrorism’ distractions. Australia’s 800 cops to arrest 1 person for a possible crime isn’t an anti-terrorism operation, it’s a false flag con job to silence critics of Abbott’s decision to send 600 troops back into fight IS.

At home our own hate speech merchant Cameron Slater has been steadily beating the anti-Muslim terrorism war drum, knowing what we now know about Slater’s under the table blogging practices, I wonder if it was a publicity contract with the Australian High Commission.

Let’s just go through some of the reasons sending in troops  is hypercritical madness.

-The last time we invaded Iraq was a cluster fuck of staggering proportions and has fed the current violence.

-Sure IS are extremist fundamentalists with zero regard for human rights as we define them, but so are a whole bunch of nations we cuddle up to. I haven’t seen us ban Israel for their war crimes against the Palestinians and I haven’t noted NZ doing much at all to invade Egypt or Saudi Arabia for their grave abuses of power. Hell we are apparently on the side of the Assad regime here for crying out loud. Where the Christ is the morality in that?

-There are still large questions over NZs role in Afghanistan and whether we committed war crimes by handing suspects over to known torture groups.

-There is no way we will win a UN seat on the Security Council when we are seen as America’s lap dog.

-Is NZ already helping by using 5 eyes to select targets for America? We may not pull the trigger on the drone, but are we pointing the drone?

Seeing how most NZers reacted to mass surveillance and dirty politics by rallying to Key, the sick thing about NZ right now is that Key might win 2017 if he invades Iraq.

Don’t worry, John Key is khomfortable with reinvading Iraq. All he is saying, is give war a chance and most NZers who voted gleefully agree.

 

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36 Comments

  1. peter aka sleepy hobbit says:

    For once Martyn, this sleepy hobbit agrees with every word you have written. We were once unafraid to take an independent stance on nuclear issues (thank you Labour govt.) but have now reduced ourselves to ‘running dog’ status.

    • Martin says:

      We are about to be invaded [TTP] and got to another American war without a murmur. Nuclear free was done 30 odd years ago [I was in it] What have we done since? I miss the huge mobilisations of the 70′ and 80’s. Now we are anesthetized and amnesiac.

  2. Kathy Maddren says:

    My opinion about the NZ SAS putting boots on the ground in Iraq or Syria, changed completely, when the plot by ISIS extremists to behead an innocent Australian citizen on the street, was foiled by the Australian Police. That happening across the ditch, was far too close to comfort for me, because it is now clear that the ISIS intends to spread its violence and killing all over the world.

    • Molly says:

      … and that is exactly how you were supposed to feel….

      But critical thinking suggests you move on from your initial reaction, and ask whether the response will be an effective protection OR provide fertile ground for an increase of more of the same.

      NZ – when it runs an independent foreign policy, committed to human rights and recognition of sovereignty poses no threat to “freedom fighters” or “terrorists”.

      When it unthinkingly follows the US (undoubtedly one of the most prolific and violent “invaders”) it not only commits human rights abuses (such as handing over suspects for known torture), it creates a fertile ground for extremists and makes NZ and NZers vulnerable to acts of political and retaliatory violence.

      Move past your initial reaction and engage your thinking skills.

      Watch Naomi Klein’s The Shock Doctrine as a starting point.

    • JonL says:

      Kathy – that “plot”, was a load of crap – juvenile boastings by a group of kids that should have known better in this day and age, and no different from the boasting of any other groups of young men among themselves over the centuries. It was, however, very convenient for the Mad Monk and his cohort – people over here are now afraid of their own shadows, so hobbitism is not a uniquely NZ affair!

    • King Oath says:

      Is this country really so frightened? Seriously?

      How do we know there really was a(n Islamist) plot to behead some innocent Australian in an Australian street? You sure it wasn’t all made up by the Australian Government to put the frighteners on? There have been precedents globally of manufacturing threats, of Governments making up bogus attacks to which, filled with self-righteous wrath, they respond. With Interest. And Extreme Prejudice. So it would not have been the first time.

      The thing about conspiracy theories is that Governments, whilst pooh-poohing them, are overfond of telling you to believe their own conspiracy theories. Maybe there was an Islamist plot. Maybe there was a genuine plot, but it was at the connivance of the Australian Government itself- or the Police. Or maybe there was no plot at all but a fiction put about by the Oz Govt to justify its over-eager joining the U.S. Asset Grab Crusade. Do you know? Does anyone know? Really?

      My own guess (which is all anyone can make of this)? There was a murder plot, but its extent was so over-estimated by Oz agencies that they sent 800 cops to nail one guy.

      Cripes, would we all had such protection against crime! If the powers that be are so capable of detecting and preventing crimes of this nature, we should live in a land the like of which Genghiz Khan used to boast:

      “If a beautiful virgin were to set out alone with a sack of gold upon a journey across my entire realm, she would arrive at her destination alive, still virgin, and still with her sack of gold.”

      For all their evils, you know, I begin to suspect that the likes of Assad, Qaddafi and Saddam Hussein were approaching such an ideal a good deal more closely than the United States can boast.

      Such wholesale destruction of tens – hundreds – of millions of lives, livelihoods and livings has United States ‘exceptionalism’ wrought, and continues to wreak.

      Let’s face it: the loonies took over the asylum long since. The US created ISIS (do you know, someone has tried to make out it was a creation of Assad, to make himself look good? How crazy is that?) by arming so-called rebels against the Assad regime. Quite as if the US hasn’t previously armed the Taliban. Or the militias that are tearing Libya apart. And now they are proposing to arm ‘popular’ resistance against the Islamic State.

      It was my pal Albert Einstein who remarked that a sure sign of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different outcome. Arming insurrectionists against regimes you don’t like, and wondering why they suddenly turn to bite the hand that fed them, every God damn time… is frankly certifiable right there.

      But this is the same global regime that,
      – having watched Quantitative Easing of the global economy three times fail to fix the problem is gearing up for a fourth attempt;
      – the same global regime looking to rising levels of private debt in non-productive sectors of the economy as the way to boost growth;
      – the same global regime that is racing to extract the last drop of fossil fuel oil out of the planet before it all runs out;
      – the same global regime that scratches its arse whilst climate changes threaten the very existence of the civilised world as we know it –
      – the same crass idiotocracy presiding over the wholesale dissolution of the planet and its people.

      The likes of Obama, Cameron, Abbott and Key – and the rest – are too crazed to plead at the Hague. They ought to be certified for what they are, criminally insane, and poked away, without trial, in the most secure asylum that can be found for them.

      Or send them on a half-way airline ticket to Brazil.

      • You took the words right out of my mouth.

        I think leaders like those you mention should be publicly drawn and quartered, to be frank.

      • iain mclean says:

        @ King Oath; You seem “on to it.” Well said.

        Except the “fossil” fuel comment.

        It looks like Oil is abiotic in nature and will NOT run out anytime soon.

        A Dominant Social Theme. ie An “Oil Scarcity Meme / myth.

        Consult The Daily Bell for definitions.

        Cheers.

        • YogiBare says:

          Iain,
          Agreed there’s a good chance the oil reserves will not run out anytime soon, however, the cost of extracting them will. Unfortunately this cost is not only counted in financial terms, our continued existence on this planet is also at stake. It’s “game over” for us if we continue burning all available fossil fuels.

    • e-clectic says:

      Kathy, all is not as it seems. This can be a big shock to accept. ISIL are the puppets: but who are the puppet masters?

    • Personally I am convinced that what has been happening in Australia is a false flag operation to scare monger Australasia into cooperating with the US.

      Terrorism is not a risk in nations like Australia and NZ – because we don’t get involved in the kinds of disgusting war mongering that the US is fond of. You can bet your bottom dollar that the events in Australia influenced voters during our election. Some overly paranoid wing nuts will have voted for Key under the mistaken impression that the GCSB is protecting us from terror threats that, ultimately, do not exist – despite, clearly, the fact that other nations like the US routinely invade peoples’ privacy with mass surveillance and yet, somehow, 9/11 still happened?

      You have more reason to be afraid of our government – with its myriad of destructive policies – than terrorists. What happened ‘across the ditch’, I believe, was manufactured to scare us all. I’ve been saying for over two years that NZ is going down the same route as the US and that is – allowing ourselves to be ruled by fear.

      What people never seem to realize is that sending your troops into other countries to wage war where it’s none of your business is the very behavior that INVITES terror and contributes to it. It will achieve nothing but to make NZ a target.

      Don’t allow yourself to be swayed by the fear mongering of corrupt governments’ agendas. It only serves to make you feel uncomfortable and appear foolish to others.

  3. Brewer says:

    The Kurds—even lightly armed villagers like the ones who held off IS for so long—don’t scare easy. They faced down Saddam’s army, and IS is no more than the dregs of that army, mangier but no meaner. So the Kurds stood and fought, even though they were badly outgunned. And what they demonstrated is that, faced with disciplined opposition, IS is such a weak combat force that it could not take a small town 25 km from its base of operations, even after bulking up and wasting 15 months probing its defenses.

    And now, any chance IS had of even holding onto its gains in the hills around Kobani is gone. You can’t conduct Toyota-blitzkrieg, the only form of warfare IS does well, under constant air attack. Now that the Kurds of Kobani are being reinforced by PKK units from Turkey (in spite of everything the Turks are doing to try to stop them), IS will fall back on Jarabulus—their ridiculous little “emirate”—and take it out on their usual victims, any woman who was born in the wrong cult, wears the wrong veil, or dares to talk back.
    http://pando.com/2014/09/28/the-war-nerd-lets-put-islamic-states-menacing-advance-into-perspective-by-looking-at-a-map/

  4. fambo says:

    I think the disillusionment people on the so called Left are feeling after this election is not with Labour, Greens, IMP or any of their leaders – it is with the New Zealand public at large. When 60 percent of voters vote conservative and there is no likelihood of them swinging round the other way, it’s probably time for the Left to buy some snack food, fall into a comfy couch, and watch the series of inevitable disasters unfold. It seems New Zealanders are only going to learn some lessons the hard way.

  5. Angry Tory says:

    Martyn – whatever he does, Key “won” the 2017 election last weekend, almost certainly 2020, and probably 2023. National took 2 terms to come back from their drubbing in 2002, and this result is around 10% worse for the left bloc than 2002 was for the right.

    There’s more chance of an ACT/Conservative coalition government in say 2023 or 2026 than there is of a Labour/Greens coalition.

    • YogiBare says:

      “There’s more chance of an ACT/Conservative coalition government in say 2023 or 2026 than there is of a Labour/Greens coalition.”
      That may be true, but it assumes angry tories haven’t wreaked the place by 2026 and the hobbits are still sleeping.

  6. Michael says:

    I agree Martyn , lets stay away from this rabbit hole.

    The amount of sub stories and plots in this are many and varied ranging from The States V Assad to the Sunni – Shia divide.

    As for boots on the ground , Iran has an army of over 800 thousand , Turkey over 500, 000 not to mention the Syrian and Iraqi National Armies .

    ISIS numbers 50,000 and by all accounts that’s being generous. Do people think that those young guys in AU will still be waving their flags if they see ISIS getting beaten by armies from the region?

    An attack led by the West feds ISIS, Plus whats the end game if they defeat them?

    A very sad and messy situation.

    • Norm says:

      Finally a commenter on this page that gets it. The West getting involved (again) at this point may well be seen by muslims as just another Christian crusade. That’s how the IS will frame it at any rate, and on social media too. It’s fine for us liberal Westerners so horrified and compelled by moral outrage, our MSM will frame the story as a moral crusade, like fighting Hitler (?). But even on social media, we are not on the same networks as the people IS sees as their audience. We need to understand that declaring a Caliphate has gotten a lot of muslims attention. Following America into this conflict raises risk of attack in NZ territory as we will be labelled with ‘Christian Crusader’ nation status by attacking a growing Caliphate that claims to speak and provide refuge for all those who wish to live under Islamic law.

  7. Intrinsicvalue says:

    Absolutely we should go to war and finish off these murderous bastards once and for all. They are scourge on our freedom.

    • Lara says:

      yeah, because going to war in the middle east always ends well

      oh wait…

      perhaps a history lesson intrinsicvalue? and while you’re at it, a lesson in the history of meddling by the USA particularly its CIA over the last wee while…

      and consider that if you personally are not prepared to go there and risk your life, and likely die, then maybe you should reconsider your stance.

    • Martin says:

      off you go then. You can go first.

  8. sansa says:

    So we should just adopt a tactic of appeasement to deal with ISIS as they massacre innocent people because it might not be good for our image to take action.

    Screw that, our initial inaction when it came to Hitler and in places like Serbia led to genocide, we should learn from our history, not repeat it.

    • Martin says:

      To go to the root of the problem you have to ask where ISIS/ISIL came from and who armed/funded them? Before we all race of to war.
      100 years ago we all rushed off to war. Are we going for a rerun?

  9. Gordon says:

    I am proud to be a citizen of a country that went to war to defeat fascism. Islamic State (IS) is the face of fascism in the 21st century and any contribution NZ can make to their destruction should be applauded. Those who believe that we should do nothing should be ashamed to walk past an ANZAC memorial.

    • e-clectic says:

      “Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

      – Hermann Goering, President of the Nazi Reichstag

    • Martin says:

      ISIS/ISIL are not fascists. They are hard line religious fundamentalists.
      Note the absence of any other marker here as no religion is immune.
      With regard ‘destroying ‘ them please refer to my above comment. If we are going to put our men in harms way it had better be for the right reasons.
      Members of my family served to defeat Hitler in belief that it was for the great good of all.

    • iain mclean says:

      @gordon;

      Some say Fascism exits in America right now;coming to a place near
      you soon.

      Usually,the Global Elite fund and control both sides of any conflict.

      WW1 and WW2 documented and reported in mainstream media.

      They do NOT care who wins but goal to keep going as long as possible! Revenue Banking elites.

      Boom,bust,War,consolidate! Boom,bust,War,consolidate!

      The whole thing is f…king rigged / theatre / deception. Model for over 100yrs.

      GOAL? GLOBAL GOVERNANCE!!!

      http://www.globalresearch.ca
      http://www.thedailybell.com

      Cheers.

    • adam says:

      Gordon I’m probably the most pro military lefty you will met. I love our men and women in arms, and I cringe when people equate our past military expeditions with current one.

      If you were say lets invade Saudi Arabia as they are a fascist state, I’d probably agree – seeing as they have behead more people in the last month than isis. They were probably involved september 11, and they treat human life with disdain.

      But isis really, if the locals start to fight them and want our support, sure. But I don’t see the locals fighting them. Am I ill informed? No I’m not. Isis are a joke, we are giving a bunch of criminals and thugs the terrorist label, and people live in fear. How many people have been kept up at night over the fear of terrorism? It should be none, we should not give any credence to thugs and bullies.

      If you wanna be bat shit crazy and fight a war uninvited – go yourself, don’t send our men and women to a war zone not of our making and without the support of the local population.

  10. Norm says:

    During the last Iraq war there were some pretty well attended protests in wellington and auckland. Even a few small ones in towns around the country. Hope we will see more of the same this time around

  11. thomas says:

    I dont think key can read the writing on the wall, he is only fooling the fools, his kind are being exposed more everyday globally speaking, if he did the maths which he should be able to do considering his previous occupation, he should be retreating to his private island about now and praying, technically speaking

  12. Dialey says:

    When the economies of the US, the UK and probably a number of other ‘western’ nations are almost totally dependent on the manufacture and supply of arms and the rebuilding of infrastructure, it doesn’t take much to realise that the ‘war on terror’ in each of its new manifestations is just a way to bolster those economies. Until there is a full and effective moratorium on the sale of weapons, there will never be an end to these wars. And the likelihood of that is……0

  13. Norm says:

    To all those commentators who compare IS to the Nazi’s, scream fascism and demand the destruction of the Islamic State…..
    We should NOT go to war or play global policeman just to ease your troubled conscience.


 
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