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In terms of long-term stability, one party above stands above all others, with the exception of personality-driven groups such as NZ First and United Future. That party is the Greens.
If the Labour Party wants to look elsewhere for solutions to their problems, they need only walk down the coridor at Parliament and knock on the doors to Metiria Turei and Russell Norman.
The Greens’ record speaks for itself…
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In the meantime, Labour’s ritual post-election self-flagellation and purging of their leadership damages their standing in the public’s eye even further. The words I’ve been hearing in the last 48 hours are “clowns”, idiots”, and a few others that are unmentionable around kids.
If the Labour caucus don’t support their own leader – especially when times are tough – why should they expect the voting public to take their leadership choices seriously? After all, with four leaders gone in six years, it would appear to be a temporary position at best.
The only thing that Labour is proving by it’s actions is that it cannot cope with defeat; cannot build positively; and most important – will not support it’s elected leader when he needs it the most. Not exactly an inspiring message to send to voters, eh?
Remind me why the public would think that this is a team worth supporting?!
No one benefits from this circus.
Except of course, Cameron Slater, David Farrar, Simon Lusk, and their parasitic mates. For them, despite Nicky Hager’s expose, this has been a dream-come-true. For the apostles of Dirty Politics, Christmas has come early.
Gift-wrapped and presented by the Labour Party caucus and hierarchy.
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References
Radio NZ:Â Cunliffe resigns as leader of Labour
NZ Herald: Timeline: Labour’s years of leadership pain
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= fs =
If the greens are to be anything more than a fringe party on par with Winstons party, they need to remove the ideological perception that places them further left than Labour and in socialist territory. All the public see is more taxes, more wealth redistribution and that self-interest over-rides any environmental concerns.
Take their child poverty ‘solution’ which was essentially just a Robin Hood take from the rich, give to the poor, policy that had nothing innovative or game breaking about it and possibly alienated a significant segment of the working poor.
The Greens should be at the forefront of change and advancement and attracting the educated urban vote.
WTF. How can the Greens child poverty solution alienate the working poor?
LOOL – talk about a study in self contradiction ….LOLOLOLOL !!!!
🙂
Go away and have a wee ‘ tink about what you just wrote Sansa ,
🙂
Indeed, Andrew…
I must have watched too much of last nights dreadful TV and now done woke up dumb because you @SANSA make no sense . If I wasn’t so stupid I wouldn’t think you puff brain farts . ? .
Sansa said “The Greens should be at the forefront of change and advancement and attracting the educated urban vote”
er, that’s exactly what the Greens are doing. If anything, the fact that the Greens’ four strongest electorates are Wellington Central, Rongotai, Dunedin North and Mt Albert suggests that they’re overly dependent on the ‘educated urban vote’.
Have you ever bothered sansa to read and comprehend the policies offered by not only by the Greens, but Mana and Labour to tackle this issue, which is a direct result of the neo liberal economics we have pursued for over 30 years.
I love telling young people(under 20 years) how there were no homeless people in NZ when I was their age( i am in my 50’s)And while there were certainly large families for whom food was in short supply and there was no need for food banks.We all wore hand me downs and became adept at altering garments to fit, we knitted we sewed we cooked we baked we gardened. And people were comfortably off because interest rates were controlled the state provided insurance and home loans.Wages were paid that people could live on. We lived in a stable egalitarian society oh there were no burglar alarms on houses either.
The home truth until Muldoon brought in his price and wage freezes at the time of the 1977 / 78 opec oil crisis when we got carless days etc.
That is where the rot set in.
Sansa, are you sure you’re a Stark and not a Lanister?
It is not necessarily wealth distribution after the fact that is needed but wealth distribution before. Meaning we need to close the gap between the top earners and the bottom ones. It will be best if both ends are moved a bit toward the middle. It does not mean that every will end up exactly equal, what it will mean is that that the difference is not so much that you have those at the top awash with money and those at the bottom struggling to put food on the table, even when they are working.
It should certainly not mean that the CEO of a a port where three men died in industrial accidents in one year can get a a 20% pay rise, from $1,000,000 to $1,200,000, that is several times most familes’ annual income.
does the word Troll not mean anything to you? Looks like Sansa has taken some of you hook line and sinker
Absolutely agree Frank.
NZ Greens are the epitome of stability, enough proof the party has direction and focus, to guide it towards eventual government status.
Labour could do well to take a good hard look at the Greens and note why and where the party has got it so right. Considering the strong leadership of Turei and Norman would be a good start!
Not sure why you want Labour to follow the greens to 10%.
I voted early . Both in the polling and in the day because I knew the Blue People would be tending to their cow duties like udder polishing and fur arrangements of the morning . And I was right . I avoided the crowds .
I stood in the Small Rural Town War Memorial Hall and enjoyed the feeling of being different for a change . I listened in on the hubbub coming from a lone voter talking to himself as he struggled with his over coat . He said little of interest , his replies to himself were not stellar either . The two women in charge of the paper work looked like nice people but I’m old enough now to know that looks can be deceiving . I made off the cuff remarks about National to them as they checked me in and watched as their demeanour changed like the octopus changes it colours . They both stiffened visibly as I went on about Nicky Hager’s book particularly and I noticed the nice , older women , while searching for my name on the roll , began to quiver with a huge shot of adrenalin as her bile rose to a dangerous level . Her eyes narrowed , as did her colleagues who also had me fixed in a steady glare as I went on .
Thus I voted Green / Green . Green as cow shit . Green as the rolling Southland hinterlands .
I also voted Green because Russell and Matiria are really nice people and that’s good enough for me . I’m over the gas filled . I’m over the haters and whiners . I’m over the crooks , cheats and liars . The old shrivelled career path plodders and the in it for the long haulers . The bleak and brainless are in there too . They sit and hope to God on one notices them and collect their salaries and entitlements . And I’m over jonky . My God , I’m over him . I’m so over watching a millionaire be paid money I earn to be even richer while he cheats me and lies to me and is a cruel , mean little man who beams malevolence like an electric chair . When I look at Russell and Matiria I see people whom I could hug .
When I see jonky , hugging of a different kind springs to mind .
Think about it ? If we only voted for nice people with strong , clear , kind minds we’d have strong , clear and kind governance comprised of nice people . What would be wrong with that for a change I ask ?
@ COUNTRYBOY – Nice post , mate 🙂
Thats what its all about , in the end.
mean little man who beams malevolence like an electric chair
That must be a top contender for simile of the year.
Compared to Labours infuriating and ritualistic habit of tearing themselves a new arse The Green Party is the model of stability.
It appears that they are not shackled to “affiliates” and groupings of people who have no inspiration beyond vaguely improving the status quo or a those who have no positive vision of improvement of ones place in this world.
This election more than any other has demonstrated to me that the left are deeply divided, almost hate each other and are obsessed about one up-man-ship of each other. Furthermore they appear to love getting into petty squabbles about two flies going up a wall and would happily staunch out any person whose opinion differs from their own and attempt to force solutions upon the voters, against their will, to the point of mindless self destruction.You need look no further than a leader being foisted upon its own caucus against their wishes.
However the Greens have a long way to go. They are not the alternative opposition party in waiting. They are still way too specialised.
New Zealanders apparently want MMP but want the security blanket of certainty that FFP brought, why, because they voted National in as a stand alone majority. They have bought into the clever arguments of both National and Labour not to trust small parties that flank each side of their opponents and thereby have succeeded in defeating typical MMP politics.
I don’t know what the solution is at this stage but if the Greens can use their far more modern unified structure to become a broad church party then so be it and leave Labour and their hopeless divisive organisation far behind, to carry on their mindless destructive infighting.
If you don’t like or believe in what you are doing for the people is right, how can you expect the voter to believe in you.
Labour seem not to show this depth of self belief and did not reach the minds of many who were wanting to urgently find that candidate, though David in the last days tried to convey this but it was to late unfortunately.
Our local candidate was very uplifting of Labour old values of being firstly in loyal support for the region he represented not just the Labour policies.
That was why he won back his electorate because so many felt what was going wrong needed someone who could front those changes coming.
National of course had the whole control of all media and didn’t need to have candidates to represent the regions they where in.
If Labour Greens NZ First can meet in a series of forums to plan the way forward with strategies to first tackle the negative media still chipping away at the rot, and reverse this disturbing trend then we may see some return of voters confidence in them all but as of now they are like a flock of birds shattering.
Forcing Government to section off half of the public TVNZ/RADIONZ for the opposition to have an independent voice for the people, collectively to operate would be a good place to start.
Yes, standing back and looking at what stability is is the way to go Frank, thankyou for your considered post.
the left have been very successfully divided and we are now being ruled by a a tribal, and united right wing.
To believe that finding the “right” leader who will save us all, is to collude with this primitive style of campaign.
One thing though Frank, the Greens are currently having an internal discussion about leadership and what options, if any, it has. It is doing this while attention is elsewhere. The futures of the Green Parliamentary staff are being left up in the air while this discussion takes place. All loyalties are currently out the window.
You are probably correct that the current co-leadership configuration is going to continue, but the result the Greens achieved on September 20 is causing much debate among the MPs, debate that centres on where to from here? MOU’s with National? Shouldering the burden as a centre-left party – Illustrated in it set to pick up the Feed The Kids Bill from the Mana Movement, and Hone Harawira in particular? It cannot do both. And what does it mean for the Green movement as a whole? Does it subscribe to the blue-green challenge laid down by National’s Nick Smith?
The Greens have the benefit of depth in its caucus, so it therefore has choices. Will we see a rise of influence from Kevin Hague? Is the future for the Greens with James Shaw and Julie-Anne Genter?
This election result draws a line in the sand that has initiated serious self-examination for Labour. About time. But it is wrong to exclude the Greens from having to do this too, especially while the spotlight is shining on other dark corridors of power.
Interesting, Selwyn…
And if such discussions are taking place (and I’ve no doubt they probably are), it is internal and away from the baying hounds of the Gallery Pack. The result is mature debate and sound decision-making, as media pressures don’t exert undue, panicky decisions.
Hopefully.
That’s really good to hear Selwyn. I agree that the Greens need to do a similar re-evaluation as Labour. They were shooting for 15% and came up short by a long way.
But, I don’t necessarily see that as a bad thing. What was the low point of the election campaign? There were a few. But the one that stood out for me was the Greens being praised by John Armstrong. That should have worried the Greens hugely – that’s praise you don’t want, where the hell did they go so wrong?
IMO, the role of the Greens is to focus on policy, innovation and challenge to the status quo. That’s their brand – Tanczos, Bradford, Locke, Fitzsimons, Kedgely – people more concerned with policy than politics.
If the Greens aren’t being vilified, marginalised, ridiculed, ritually hated and abused then frankly they’re not doing their job. That’s their real role – not sitting at the cabinet table.
These absurd notions of cosying up to National in some blue-green fantasy need to be squashed quick smart and get back to the Green roots of principles, policy and integrity not power, politics and “pragmatism”. And, they can tell Labour to bugger off as well and wait for Labour to come crawling to them for support which they may or may not provide.
Get the focus back on clear principles unconcerned about success at the ballot box and paradoxically the votes will start returning too.
Stability – yes, and more – integrity – right back to and including Jeanette Fitzsimons and (Rod MacDonald sadly lost), they have not lowered themselves into the quagmire of politics where all others seem to end up. The way the majority of politicians behave in the house is unforgiveable. The Greens are the only party that is thinking of the big picture – climate change, the end of available cheap fossil fuels, a global financial system based on the unlimited growth on a finite planet – unfortunately the voting public are either uninformed, don’t believe, have a vested interested or just don’t care. And yes their vote has not grown. But they have held on to their beliefs and surely the growing global evidence can only build their support – barring those in denial.
The Greens are failures. In 18 years they have never been formally part of a Govt. NZ First are only 3 years older and have been part of Govt’s. The Maori Party are younger and have been part of Govt’s. Being in politics is about being in power, and the Greens have failed. Their share of the vote in 2014 actually dropped from 2011, and they fell well short of their 15% objective. The Green leaders should be under the same scrutiny as the other failed parties of the left.
^ This mug….Crawled out of you dark little hole to grace us with more drivel again?
And would you rather it is an unhealthy ‘democracy ‘ as it is now and have a single party state, in which case…. would you like to call it either Fascist with a capitol ‘F’ or Communist with a capitol ‘C’?
Your statement above is ample proof you really have no credibility in your opinion…the whole point of having other parties contending is to STRENGTHEN democracy – not WEAKEN it.
Ha ha, Wild Katipo,
That response was fitting, Intransient valueless should be called eh!
Greens are so much of a threat that it brings out that cringe?
From what he’s written here over the years I’me sure that’s exactly what IntrinsicLackofValue would love.
Let’s have a look at Anonymous ACT Supporter Intrinsicvalue’s statement above…
NZ First: Winston Peters sacked from two governments; lost Tauranga; and thrown out of Parliament altogether in 2008.
Maori Party: 5 seats in 2008; 4 seats in 2011; and now only 1 seat and 1 list MP.
Oh yeah, real studies in “success”.
Is that the best BS spin you can achieve, IV?
The Green leaders should be under the same scrutiny as the other failed parties of the left.
On that point, I agree with IV and from what Selwyn mentions above that is happening.
The Greens are failures.
On that point, I disagree completely.
Firstly, they’re still here and will be for a long time (unlike ACT and perhaps Maori).
Secondly, their influence has been much greater than the number of seats they’ve held.
Thirdly, they have had significant numbers of their policies implemented – as much by having them borrowed and stolen by others as under their own steam.
Fourthly, they have in the last term provided the most credible opposition to the excesses of transNational.
If being the Government is the objective, then yes the greens have failed. If changing society is the objective, then the Greens have been more successful than National or National Lite.
National is turning into a fascist party when it takes down opposition pages on Facebook and hacks into opposition parties web pages.
It is exactly what fascist and communist parties did in the past.
So much for freedom of speech under this government.p
10000%.
Media showed no interest in the erosion of our civil liberties disappearing over the NatZ?
Shows clearly who’s side their on.
Imagine what would have happened if Labour was in power and did that?
The media would be all over Cunliffe straight away demanding answers right?
We need opposition to force Key to hand over half TVNZ/RNZ over to them for independent media coverage of their policy’s.
“National is turning into a fascist party” Again,
Anyone remember reading/hearing of 1951= the last time it did so well in the polls?
1951-1952? either or, makes bugger all difference which.
Yes, Countryboy, I too agree with you. Why didn’t NZers vote for the nice people over the dirty, lying, cheating ones?
Still have suspicions over how legit our voting system is… No id, no real way of knowing your vote was actually counted. All very casual and trusting, for something so important.
It is no fun living in a country where you don’t trust your own government.
Because the nice people told us some inconvenient truths and the dirty cheating ones told us some comforting lies. Pretty simple really.
Kim Dandy, you said rightly “Still have suspicions over how legit our voting system is”
Check out the way they can easily make their own election result with a computer program that eats your vote and/or alters the total result by an untraceable computer program with a source code.
Computer scientists agree: software-based election systems cannot be made secure from undetectable manipulation or error
http://nylevers.wordpress.com/chart/resources-background-links/faqs/computer-scientists-agree-software-based-election-systems-cannot-be-made-secure-from-undetectable-manipulation-or-error/
Video evidence of Expert computer programmer who testifies that he used during election fraud using source code computer programs.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1thcO_olHas
Re Labour: like NZ as a whole, the Labour Party is still struggling to recover from the Rogernomics years. It seems, amazingly, that there are still many true left Micky Savage members in the grass roots party, and they have thrown their support behind Cunliffe, whatever his faults. Unfortunately there are still many keep-my-arse-on the-parliamentary-leather-at-any-price, national-lite mp’s who remain resolutely out of touch with the membership and the traditional Labour electorate. They need to learn that “aspirational” can refer to a fairer society based on social justice and sustainability, rather than drooling over Judith Collins’ “beach house” when it gets free real estate advertising on Campbell Live.
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