There were queues unlike any the Town Hall has seen, 1000 were turned away once it became full…
…full to the rafters. The energy and atmosphere within the room was extraordinary, and it begun…
…Glenn Greenwald is amazing. His strong words and powerful argument are impossible to deny. When he talked about how unusual it was to have a PM call him childish names, the entire audience erupted in laughs and cheers. These are henchmen…
…Glenn Greenwald is no ones henchman.
Glenn’s credibility can not be dented by wannabes like Metro Editor Simon Wilson who had the audacity to attack him in the private media room. Sad, so very sad.
Then, a moment that no one was expecting, Edward Snowden…
…Snowden spoke with such integrity, announced that there were 2 NSA bases in the North Island, outlined how he had personally been able to look at NZ metadata and how the NSA are running mass surveillance programs in NZ. It was compelling, it was detailed, it was the truth.
Operation Speargun was set up to tap our Southern Cross cable and was waiting for the new GCSB law to pass, the GCSB law that Key claimed stopped mass surveillance, yet every other legal expert said would allow for mass surveillance. So the evidence is that Operation Speargun was running and was simply waiting for the legislation to pass, the very legislation that the GCSB went and briefed the NSA on. The documents Key has released claiming that he stopped this plan show nothing of the sort. Operation Speargun went ahead, the NSA are now mass spying on everything.
One surprise was the decision to put Kim’s email to Parliament’s Privileges Committee. That was the legal advice given Kim and seeing as it’s his life that is about to be decided by the Court process, you have to allow him that, but I think it was a strategic blunder and stupid to not front with his Hollywood email mostly because NZ journalists would hold onto that and use that to stop the important information Snowden provided getting heard. In terms of the email being a fake, The Standard have pulled that claim apart and Gordon Campbell provides an incredible timeline that helps back up Dotcom.
It looks like Key not only betrayed the Unions in the manufactured crisis at The Hobbit, he also betrayed NZ sovereignty by entrapping Kim Dotcom for Corporate Hollywood.
Personally I love the blistering attack Kim made on the media…
“[The public] don’t care about my case tonight. They care about being subjected to this evil mass surveillance.”
Finally, he appeared to lose his cool and angrily lectured the media: “You have an obligation after what you have learned tonight to take the information you have learned from Glenn Greenwald.
“You have failed New Zealanders in the past — look at Dirty Politics,” he said, referring to the book about the alleged National Party attack politics campaign. “You need to wake up and do your jobs.
“My case only affects me. It doesn’t matter tonight. That’s why we didn’t make a big deal out of it. You need to get your priorities right. We have focused on the much bigger lie, which is every single New Zealander subjected to mass surveillance.”
If Kim has seriously presented a fake email as his evidence, then it would be the end of him being taken seriously. Let’s see what happens with the Privileges investigation.
So what does the media say? ‘There is no evidence’ – WTF? NSA documents talking about a mass surveillance plan, talk about the progress of that plan and talk about their expectations of the new law – BUT THAT’S NOT EVIDENCE???
NZ has one of the lowest corruption rates, not because there is no corruption but because NZers refuse to have the intellectual curiosity to ask questions! This is why the meeting had to be in the last week of the election, because the mainstream media who have been outed as contaminated by Whaleoil were always going to simply scream ‘no smoking gun’. I get the feeling that Radio NZ will not be happy until they actually see a smoking gun, Brent Edwards was a joke on the issue this morning by saying ‘there was no evidence’.
There have been some notable exceptions, Andrea Vance has written an incredible review, the Herald has written a solid article and Keith Ng has done a strong blog on Public Address.
Dirty Politics shows our media have failed in their obligations and that’s why the future is to talk past them and over them via social media. Snowden and Greenwald have done our country a huge service, well beyond the timid, tamed and compromised NZ mainstream media ever have. It is far easier for the journalists to scream no evidence when evidence is presented, but note how they all seem to accept Key’s assurances that the GCSB is just some big misunderstood Norton virus protection…
…the media’s small mindedness and narrow viewpoint will tell you there was no evidence. There was, they just didn’t want to see it. The media in NZ are the reason we can’t have nice things like a mass surveillance free state.
The triviality of the Key vs Dotcom ‘bombshell’ is secondary to Key vs our entire political, economic & cultural sovereignty – that’s the real moment of truth.
I thought Kims Lawyer was fantastic ….no mention of the TPPA and its major threat to N.Z on RNZ morning report Grrrrrrrrr
Loved it when Bob Amsterdam called John key a traitor, because thats exactly what he is, a TRAITOR.
Frankly I’m getting a little scared. I mean, I’ve been well aware that are media are light on journalism, heavy on gossip for a long time. I’ve been increasingly dismayed by the media coverage, especially over the last year, but the reaction by the msm to ‘the moment of truth’ has really been a new low.
This is getting beyond farce into the sublime. But the thing is, I know people who get their news from the likes of TV One, Paul Henry, etc. and no other sources, and I suspect there’s a lot of other NZers out there like them. And that’s part of what is makes this so scary.
I have the same reaction, I know people who are so sold on the media’s portrayal of Dotcom that they don’t want to hear anything more about him – even if it is the truth. I think for some people the last thing they want to face is the fact that the media is participating in mass deception, it would mean everything they know is wrong. I must admit I can understand that point of view.
I know the Herald did a good report but you should see the nonsense that their 4 commentators wrote in their reviews. John Armstrong seems to be pushing the line that the whole surveillance argument depends on the email from Warner Brothers which is just plain wrong and poor old Audrey Young started off well by saying Snowden was a hero but then tried to claim he hadn’t presented any proof.
Presumably she thinks all the documents he produced outside of NZ are real so why does she suddenly doubt these ones? Is it that she’s just too scared to stick her neck out and go up against the establishment? is that the problem with all our journalists?
Toby Manhire was pathetic. I could see him in the audience so he definitely saw the same thing I saw but then he tried to say there was nothing new revealed because the info came out a bit earlier on the Intercept website – as we were told it would. Pathetic, pathetic, pathetic.
As for Fran Wilde’s comments, the National spin doctors couldn’t’ have done any better. Then there is the issue of how the Herald got a copy of the email just hours before the big reveal. The Orwellian nature of that is probably what scared me the most.
In Germany ,..during the 1930’s…the same public participation of state influenced media gave tacit approval to enabling the slaughter of 6 million individuals during the 1940’s.
That media gave full ,blind acceptance and approval of radical govt dogma.
Citizens accepted it unquestionably as verifiable fact. To do otherwise would of incurred the states punitive reprisals. It is among the finest and most extreme example in modern history of the phenomena of state propaganda,and how people…given the right conditions ….will forfeit not only their sense of political balance but also close down to any suggestions of moral wrongdoing by their govt…and by association…..themselves.
That is one reason why years after that war… there were still many diehards who condoned the ideology and slaughters carried out by that regime.
And while we may not have anywhere near those circumstances…there is a principle in operation in this country whereby to question this govt…..to doubt it…would be to admit there is something wrong….and them by association.
Critical thinking , questioning , not only exposes political wrongdoings …but exposes themselves … you are left then with one of two options …to carry on in acceptance….or admit somethings wrong…and do something about it.
It is only a matter of time before a significant chunk of New Zealanders interested in politics permanently stop using the MSM as their primary news source. I’ve passed on my favourite blogs to a good number of people now, the most recent yesterday.
They are: The Daily Blog, The Standard, No Right Turn, Bowalley Road (Chris Trotter), Gordon Campbell (at Scoop), Democracy Now! and Lauda Finem, not to mention dear old Facebook – a better newsfeed than any of the MSM sources and it doesn’t cost a thing.
Seems to be a little bit heavy towards the left there.
Did you discuss balance at all and pass on any right wing blogs?
Right wing?
That’s MSM.
there’s your balance.
I’d rather remove my eye’s with a spoon than look at slater and farrers poisonous garbage
well that is a little extreme…taking out your eye…but agree with the general sentiment…you definately risk toxic poisoning if you visit these sites…bad for mental health , intelligence quotient and emotional well being
The thing is, I look in everything I read for information that gives me a better picture of what is going on. I would happily check out Right wing blogs if I thought they were going to add to the clarity of my information. I used to watch Citizen A which had Right Wing commentators but for the most part they were exceedling poor in their arguments. Matthew Hooten was about the best and I found that he at least appeared to retain an open mind.
I find that most Right wing commentors feel that facts are about as necessary as tits on a bull, so they aren’t very good as information sources.
The country is still waiting Kim for your bombshell. The press are still waiting also.
I watched the MoT from start to finish last night and had a preconceived view of what a bombshell might look like. As the event progressed I realised that what I was seeing wasn’t about KDC getting a personal hit on JK. It was about something much bigger, much bigger. And, I found that I, like many people, have a very narrow view of Kim Dotcom.
Our freedom and sovereignty are at stake. We needed to know this and I want to thank Kim Dotcom for letting us find this out – and most certainly for being a lot bigger about this than pursuing his own personal issues (as justified as he is to do that).
Bombshell? No – nothing that trivial. Freedom and sovereignty have come into consciousness and conversation.
You’re analysis is spot on. Dotcom didn’t make this about himself – he made it about us. That’s something that leaves our personality, gossip obsessed corporate media, acting like kids left out of a playground game. Most of our journalists don’t seem to have matured in any way since they were writing in their respective university magazines. This election – like no other – has made an increasing number of people aware of our media’s fundamental deficiencies.
Brook Sabin Sacha Mcneil et alia have shown they absolutely Do Not have the intelligence to understand what Assange, Snowden, Greenwald, Amsterdam, Kim Dot Com, shared with us last night.
That can be the only answer to their “nothing to see here folks, move along, with their silly little immature not funny jokes”.
What we heard last night was awesome, intelligent people with the goods passing along information to Help us make a decision for our children and grandchildren, a future where we have choices, where our descendants have basic human rights, if we continue down the national party road we will be just puppets for the beast,
No Thank You john XKEYSCORE
JOHNXKEYSCORE = PROJECT SPEARGUN PROGRAMME > TAPPING SOUTHERN CROSS CABLE >2013 INSERT METADATA PROBE > XKEYSCORE > MASS SURVEILLANCE.
WAS THIS DONE FOR DESIGNATION OF TERRORISTS ?
NO !!!
IT WAS DONE FOR MASS SURVEILLANCE OF OUR POPULATION .
IT WAS DONE TO ENABLE CORPORATE LAWS OF USA UNDER SECTION 301 TO PLACE SEVERE EMBARGOES ON ROGUE DISSENTING SIGNATORY NATIONS TO THE TTPA.
THIS = LEGAL , ECONOMIC ANNEXATION BY THE USA AND LOSS OF SOVEREIGNTY OF SIGNATORY NATIONS TRADE LAWS.
WAKE UP AND REALIZE , NEW ZEALAND , JOHN KEY HAS LIED TO YOU , MANIPULATED NOT ONLY THE TRUTH BUT THE LAW – AND THE MEDIA !!!
AND HE WANTS TO MANIPULATE YOU !!!
Brian of Mt Wgtn. So it’s not enough that whistleblower Snowden has spelt out that we are being spied on? That mass surveillance is taking place??
What are you after, a pretty picture with goddamn crayons??
Grow up man and don’t be so goddamn naive.
By the way, as others have pointed out, if you got nothing to be afraid of – why the pseudonym mate?
Can you hold your breath while you’re waiting? Go on, give it a go.
One eyed Brian, Did you not see the moment of truth meeting last night?
@ Brian of Mt Wgtn
Kim delivered four bombshells and they were in order Glen, Edward, Julien and Robert
…Kim has done more than enough to wake up New Zealanders to illegitimate spying…if we are not woken up by now then we are bloody FOOLS!
….We should thank Kim for his efforts and staying staunch!
…As far as i am concerned KIM is now a great New Zealander! ( and if you want the proof of this …just look at how much the right wing msm lackeys and PR black ops merchants hate his guts)
GO KIM! Go Internet/Mana!
I’ve just watched TV3’s Brook Sabin and Sacha Mc Neil . Ugh .
Brook Sabin claimed Dotcom did a belly flop re last evening and Sacha McNeil recoiled at the idea saying something about a mental image .
There ya go . In a nutshell . Pathetic , school yard gibberish by adults during a time of high anxiety and uncertaintity . They flubbed their responciblities as reporters and hold people whom are trying to help us Kiwis make sense of political liars and swindlers in purile contempt . No wonder stevie joyce effectivelty gave TV 3 $ 42 million of our dollars , so we could to be thus misled . Are these MSM people the ones who convince us that we have no need to use our ‘ intellectual curiosity ‘ ?
Count yourself lucky you didn’t watch Breakfast. Rawdon’s pandering of Key and his piss poor questioning of guests combined with the bimbo’s continual giggling was just stunning. Former GCSB head Sir Bruce Ferguson’s (who should have been stripped of his title and be in jail for illegal spying on NZers) “interview” that consisted almost entirely of denials was particularly galling.
I thought ‘Sir’ Bruce Ferguson was absolutely awful on RNZ this morning. His argument boiled down to how much he personally dislikes Snowden, calling him a traitor and saying nothing he says can be true because of that…
Terrible logic.
Whether he is a ‘traitor’ or not has NO BEARING on the validity of his claims.
If he really was a traitor he would have given all his dumps to Americas enemies instead of the media.
Bruce Ferguson is nothing more than sniveling ‘yes man’
I thought Ferguson’s language was particularly crass. Another reason to get rid of the honours system. Being called Sir adds so much weight to the words of our anti-democratic elite.
Yes couldn’t face watching or listening to the farce that is msm today, very damaging to mental health lol
agreed Countryboy!
Aotearoa – Land Of The Wrong White Crowd.
It’s very disappointing that so many people are just accepting of dishonesty and a lack of principles.
Sadly I don’t think Kim did the case any favours with his laughing while Greenwald was making points. I think he’s a nasty ‘piece of work’ as well but the truths that are being revealed because of his battle with Key, are truths that we should listen to. Don’t shoot the messenger.
You may not personally like Mr Kim Dotcom, fair enough , …but this country owes him a depth of gratitude for several aspects , one of which is that HIS story has BECOME OUR STORY.
He has been instrumental in helping to expose much of all this…all through the public derision , (the highest office in the land using puerile put downs as late as yesterday )….through to the disgusting ILLEGAL warrant , spying and armed invasion of his residence …
I honestly do not think – that any one of us could have done any better than Kim.
And lets not forget …it was because of him also that Mr Banks was finally tried and convicted for corruption , and in time to come , John Key will also.
He , like Hager , Snowden ,Amsterdam , Assange ,and Greenwald are the heroes of our time…we are indeed deeply indebted to them for their courageousness.
I totally agree and it’s disgusting that Kim has been painted as public enemy no 1 since standing up to tricKey and Wanks and majority of focus goes on his weight and nationality!
I have many German friends and have spent a lot of time in Germany, and exuberance in the form of loud laughing and clapping etc., is a national characteristic. Thanks to Kim for giving the messengers a platform
what are you talking about …?…”a nasty ‘piece of work”…maybe you are talking about yourself?
RNZ might also be asked why Nathan Guy was given free(?) airtime at the end of yesterday’s midday rural news to deliver a vote National Party political rant. It was very clearly a Party Political Broadcast and had nothing to do with the rural news of the day. More bias? More illegality? Breaking of electoral rules? Impossible for MSM to bring this “Government” to account when they are in compliance with it.
Yes I think what the panel last night don’t really realise is that we are seriously lacking any intelligent journalists in the mainstream and do not have a newspaper like the Guardian or investigative journalists that have access to the masses on TV and that most people are relying on 7 sharp, breakfast, Paul Henry and the Nz Herald with Fran o’sullivan as it’s editor to get their information, even programmes like q and a and the nation are ineffective as they rely on the capability of the “journalists” to ask intelligent questions when mostly they are on a beat up resulting from the hysteria of the day generated by the msm that is why we see patty gower and Lisa Owens haranguing interviewees and derailing any intelligent discussion and then of course we get the bias of the panel afterwards!
Do file a complaint with the BSA, since you have the info. I’ve done that before to no avail, but you have to at least try to keep them honest. It’s fairly easy to do now. Good luck.
I just don’t think Key’s lies will stand up . Obviously he is hoping they wilol at least through election day.
Talk about irony..
While standing in line I couldn’t help but notice the vehicles parked outside the town hall with the “bring down dot com” messages plastered all over them.
Did anyone else notice that one of the images featured daleks and wonder if they had permission from the copyright holder to use the likeness?
After all, Dotcom is “wanted” for copyright violation..
@ grumpystilskin – and so is the Natsy party now 🙂
I recoil in horror at the appalling state of New Zealand’s fourth estate.
For thirty years I and many others have been arguing and observing that the right wing has had an agenda to degrade news services and its associated intelligent analysis to better enable an ignorant and compliant population.
The past 5 years have provided inarguable proof that this has now come to pass.
Can someone explain to me how the brightly coloured, still redacted ‘webpages’ that Snowden showed, or the fuzzy screencapture of an email is hard evidence? Look, I trust Snowden more than I trust Key, so I personally believe that it is true. But it’s not evidence, really, is it? They all look incredibly easy to fake, and on something important as this, we can’t really just rely on someone’s reputability, no matter how high it was.
If “brightly coloured, still redacted ‘webpages’, or the fuzzy screencaptures” are so valueless then why are the US spending millions trying to extradite and Snowden and put him on trial, and lunatic RWNJs calling for his assassination?
Back to troll school for you, James.
I’m genuinely asking. Why do these webpages make this any less of a ‘he said, she said’ case?
The US aren’t trying to extradite him for the fuzzy webpages, they’re trying to extradite him for releasing NSA documents along with the electronic evidence to prove they came from the NSA, complete with encryption and geolocation.
Did I miss that part of the webpages? And especially the email – why was it just a screencapture and not a document including the (ironic) metadata? Without that corroborating evidence, how can we convince people who do NOT trust Snowden any more than Key that it is genuine?
🙂
I trust those 5 guys more than ‘the 5 eyes’
key’s history over the last 6 years has shown he thinks we are all a sandwhich short of a picnic and we dont really need to know the ‘whole’ story, cause we probably wont understand it any way,
“Look, at the end of the day” he’s the BOSS aint he? Hell No!
come Sat He and Liars Incorp will be all over rover
Make this happen NZ for our future.
I don’t think that Snowden and co would risk their credibility by putting up fakes and govt agencies also use basic presentation tools like PowerPoint but yes I also thought something similar about detractors being able to use that argument!
“Actually….at the end of the day…what you have to remember is…most Nz’ers are too stupid to understand” is what Key really wants to say!
Ask yourselves NZ and its MSM;
How would those who serviced in WWII have reacted if, upon returning from fighting fascist totalitarianism, they discovered that the NZ Govt was recording the dates, names, addresses of sender and recipients of every letter that past through the post office ?
It was the aging and departure of those old soldiers that let this current lot become the mongrels they went away to fight and die against .
Yes.
Robert Amsterdam made some great comments re the bogus threat of terrorism –“.they know that we know that they know that we actually don’ t know who the terrorists are in our society” …
And NSA whistleblower William Binney has also said “The ultimate goal of the NSA collection of metadata is total population control” and nothing to do with preventing terrorism. By the way Mr Binney also supports a new independent investigation of 9/11.
Until we reveal what really happened on 911, I am afraid our politicians will continue to use the threat of terrorism to excuse mass surveillance as an unfortunate necessity amongst the general populace.
If you are in Rotorua this weekend, don’t miss the exhibition of the scientific and forensic evidence that has been largely ignored by the media – 911 See the Evidence – http://nz911truth.org/news/911-see-the-evidence-exhibition-rotorua-2014/
The various issues that Robert Amsterdam touched on could easily have filled the whole two hours. He was dealing with the real big stuff that all these other details sit inside of.
Here he is on the TPPA – http://robertamsterdam.com/2014/09/the-tppa-trading-away-new-zealands-independence/
Wrong blog for your 911 konspiracy theories mate, try over at Vinny Eastwood’s or Alex Jones’s.
I’m with you on that!
“So what does the media say? ‘There is no evidence’ – WTF? NSA documents talking about a mass surveillance plan, talk about the progress of that plan and talk about their expectations of the new law”
It needs to also be underlined that there was a witness to the data being collected present at that event too. This person, Edward Snowden, had worked in the Intelligence field and therefore was in a position to view the data being collected. It was so personal and he felt it so wrong that he sacrificed his entire lifestyle – and all the privileges he enjoyed (which would have been many) – in order to tell all people of the world what was going on.
That person stated very unambiguously – no weasel words – that he had read the data and that he had seen personal and private data of ordinary NZ people (amongst other personal data from ordinary people from around the world).
I am very grateful to Mr Snowden and all the other speakers on Monday night for taking the time and having the passion to ensure we are all informed.
Thank heavens for people like them.
Funny how the real heroes all get shat on while the biggest crims rule country’s all the time.
Never is like that in Hollywood…but then again…regards true real life heroes like Mr Kim Dotcom?….Hollywood moguls fall into the same camp as the crims mentioned in the above sentence.
Boomer I said this over at the standard – what worried me the most watching from home, was the body language of the journalist in the room last night. Some of it was downright defensive. Coupled with others being closed off, both in a physical sense – posture, and by what they held in front of them.
You looked relaxed and were open to what they were saying up on stage – others…Well at least we know what dirty politics is now, and can read it when they bring in the spin merchants, hacks, troll and bully boys.
Yes it was clear from the defensive demeanour of most of the media in the audience that the panel could have said John Key is poisoning your children in their sleep and they would have found some way of justifying it!
Yes, Andrea Vance’s article was very good and yes KDC’s email going to air early was strange. Was it leaked or is there a strategy to the release in that manner and his lack of reference to it or why he didn’t just refute the fake claims?
Sir Bruce Fergusson sounded quite forthright to start with and was quite convincing for a while on RNZ this morning in defence of the Keys position but when sticky questions began to be explored it appeared the default reason for this mass surveillance when it’s officially not called mass surveillance was to save us all from God knows what, but trust us, its bad…
I felt Key looked sick in regard to that email last night and his legendary memory fade and explanations were very trying on the patience to say the least. And he was slurring again. Christ, what is going on there??
Did you not notice the minder guy behind him was winding up the mainspring in his back ?.
They have not yet perfected the perpetual motion free energy battery yet so hence the surreptitious wind up guy posing as a minder.
They say one day they will and droids will no longer need to be wound up every few hours.
The event last night was enthralling, it was captivating, it was fascinating, it was shocking. The speakers were eloquent and persuasive, and Greenwald and Snowden in particular were brilliant. I was glued to my seat.
Unfortunately, the average NZer, the swinging voter who is only loosely interested in politics whose votes will swing the election… probably didn’t pay attention. And what notice they do pay will be filtered through the lens of MSM infotainment, which totally dilutes and distorts the message.
The message is loud and clear – that Key is lying and that we are being watched. How can the MSM not understand this? Are they too thick to get it? Are they willfully blind (perhaps a lucrative career in PR is calling)? Or are their corporate or would-be corporate (TVNZ) masters telling them what to do?
On the other hand, could the event have been structured more persuasively – such as presenting more evidence on the night? What more could have been done? I imagine ultimately very little. With a couple of exceptions, the media are just stonewalling this one. Frustration aplenty here.
So what more can be done? If any TDB readers have any great ideas, now is the time. Five days to do something amazing.
I think that most people that have any understanding of politics would have tuned in to the live stream and the rest had to rely on sound bites from msm to tell them what to think. You can lead a horse to water….
Notice how Key’s media answers are very carefully chosen, variations of: “The GCSB does not conduct mass surveillance on NZers”. Ok, that may well be true. However, the obvious follow on question that NO ONE FROM THE MSM IS ASKING, is “Does the NSA or other entity conduct mass surveillance on NZers and does the GCSB have unrestricted access to that data? If so, how is that functionally different?”.
Exactly.
I think it’s been obvious for months that the five eyes get around the legal constraints of each country in such, or similar, manner. MSM too thick and lazy to pursue the matter because they’re paid to swallow everything Dishonest John says.
One of the things I found interesting was that when questioned about this I think yesterday Key said that one of the reasons the mass surveillance was never fully set up was the lack of capability to store the data and I wonder if that is why it was stalled to get the infrastructure in place first! I also wonder if that was one of the ways they spent the cash from the asset sales setting up speargun as when spinning propaganda to gear up for asset sales last election they promised to spend the cash many times over on hospitals and new schools etc but also new strategic assets like infrastructure which was never detailed?
why would we need to build a storage facility? all the data is stored at NSA and all 5 eyes have total access to that data, red hearing by key to sop MSM.
how it works is we supply info then they send it back as needed, no storage needed, the warrant needed is a false flag, NZ agencies will search a subject to find data then if there is any they have substantial evidence to support the warrant application, we are talking about spys not the country womans guild.
Just went on to Stuff to see their coverage. The highlighted story (top left photo) the day after revelations that Kiwis are likely to have been subject to mass surveillance by their government was about Robin Thicke (a pop star) who was high at every interview he went to.
I mean, seriously, what the f@rk!
These guys (Stuff, Herald et al) are part of the problem. The media in this country are shit. KDC had it right when he gave it to them last night.
But tell them off and they make that the story. Media reporting on what someone said to the media. They need to get off their high horses and remember twhat hournalism and reporting is all about.
Someone PLEASE start up an independent news website. No left or right agenda (apologies Bomber) but just fact. Plain and simple fact. Something that Kiwis can trust.
I thought the whole thing was ‘smoking’. Just cos the media can’t cope with anything not delivered in a two second soundbite, the rest of us actually welcomed an intellectually stimulating discussion of the real – but sometimes complex – issues. Thanks to everyone involved.
I expected the Moment of Truth rally to be about Kim Dotcom. It wasn’t. Neither was it about Glenn Greenwald, nor Edward Snowden, nor Julian Assange.
That event belonged to us, ordinary Kiwis.
The messages from the guest speakers, although hardly surprising were nevertheless quite disturbing, to the extent I emerged from watching the live stream, feeling both scared and sick at what was being allowed to establish itself here in NZ! A very dark vicious monster, in the form of FJK, through his subservience to the US, greedily consuming NZer’s right of sovereignty!
And just as bad is the fact NZers have lost their voice. That voice should be msm, the proxy of the people, but it has been sucked into the belly of the monster, working to keep it alive, feeding off the freedoms of Kiwis.
It’s all clear now what the precise purpose of FJK’s position is!
NZ is in a very dangerous place at present, through the duplicitous FJK being allowed to bulldoze various legislation through to appease the US, much to the detriment of Kiwis! For six years, this has continually been aided and abetted by lies, deceit and subterfuge.
The TPPA will add another grotesque head to this ever expanding monster, if we allow it to proceed.
Our sovereignty is stake here and we have a lot to lose! We have no option but to take this seriously, either by fighting through the ballot box, or in the streets!
Last night was a golden opportunity for Kiwis to open their eyes to see the precarious situation we are in. This has been delivered to us as a chance to reclaim what is ours by right. Take NZ back to where it belongs. To the people. That’s us and we need to do it together.
The old adage ‘ it is not the people that should fear the govt….but the govt should fear the people’….
Mr Kim Dotcom said ”There are two ways to fight mass surveillance – one is through the vote -and the other is through encryption ” .
I would now suggest some bright spark to produce and sell car bumper stickers saying ..
JOHNXKEYSCORE
I feel like we have witnessed the greatest event of altruism ever, these amazing people putting their time and energy in to tell us what is happening to this country, and what we are unwittingly a part of globally. People who see through all the bullshit of this government and tell us straight. JK doesn’t care enough about us or this country to give us a straight answer. I feel so humbled and truly in awe of what i witnessed last night and to listen to incredibly, knowledgeable people caring enough to enlighten us with the truth. It is sad to see the media in this country are so cynically minded and wilfully stupid, they had to be told last night the questions they need to be asking. Are these questions now being asked? Are we getting any straight answers? Or don’t the media care at all about anything just like JK? I will never forget last night and I think we need meetings like this more often to keep on top of issues as important as this as a nation. Awesome work also TDB.
The fight is not just against treasonous John key and his corrupt national party, its against the corrupt self interested mainstream media as well, who think they win the election for John key.
Kill 2 birds with one stone, vote to vote John key out of office, and kick the media in the guts at the same time.
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/09/five-eyes-surveillance-pact-appeal-disclosure-human-rights
This is a good read too – Has anyone found, seen or heard the outcome of this?
Just loving this Guardian headline:
Greenwald, Dotcom, Snowden and
Assange take on ‘adolescent’ John Key
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/15/moment-truth-greenwald-dotcom-snowden-assange-new-zealand-john-key
Notice how differently Manhire’s column in the Guardian paints the event to his column in
Cameron Slater’s drop-boxthe NZ Herald, where he basically wrote the evening off as a fizzer.You have to wonder how these Herald hacks live with themselves.
Evidence obtained unlawfully is inadmissible. If they believe that Snowden stole the data from the NSA then they have a reason to ignore it as evidence.
US fair use doctrine doesn’t allow for the general copying of data in the public interest.
By definition ..ALL leaks are illegal…also…even in a trial one criminals evidence is often used against the main defendant to incarcerate the chief offender….in other words…as is commonly done in court cases…a minions testimony is accepted even IF that minion was indulging in criminal activity at the time… common in gangland murder trials.
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