And we start getting to the evidence that proves Key has lied about mass surveillance. The article by Glenn Greenwald is out and it is beyond damning…
Documents provided by NSA whistleblower Edward Snowden show that the government worked in secret to exploit a new internet surveillance law enacted in the wake of revelations of illegal domestic spying to initiate a new metadata collection program that appeared designed to collect information about the communications of New Zealanders. Those actions are in direct conflict with the assurances given to the public by Prime Minister John Key (pictured above), who said the law was merely designed to fix “an ambiguous legal framework” by expressly allowing the agency to do what it had done for years, that it “isn’t and will never be wholesale spying on New Zealanders,” and the law “isn’t a revolution in the way New Zealand conducts its intelligence operations.”
…both the NSA and GCSB believed the final phase of Operation Speargun was the new legislation Kay rammed through Parliament. Legal experts have all claimed that the law allows for the loop hole of mass surveillance, Key is the only one claiming it does not.
The Prime Minister has lied throughout the entire GCSB mass surveillance debate and it looks like we have mass surveillance of all our metadata tapped via our Southern Cross cable.
This is unacceptable betrayal of NZ sovereignty, and if not legally treasonous, is certainly ethically treasonous.
JK needs to resign – he said he would if he lied – and he has
It is what I have been saying all along, based on the actual EVIDENCE. The GCSB channels masses of “raw” data from NZ, that they collect from their Waihopai spy base, and from their clandestine connections into the backbone fibre-optic networks of the likes of Telecom and Vodafone, and this is then processed by powerful computers, and then sent straight to the NSA’s huge database in Utah, where it is ALL stored away for future use. NOTHING ever gets deleted from those NSA data files, NOTHING, it is all preserved.
The NSA’s intention is to capture and store a complete historical record of ALL global communications. Emails, FB chats, Skype chat sessions, FB posts, phone “metadata”, pretty much everything. ALL of it is stored, for possible future use. And, they employ huge teams of programmers who constantly work on developing more and more sophisticated computer programs, to trawl through all that data, looking for “things of interest”.
So, yes, technically, the GCSB does NOT actually look at the contents of most of that data that is collected en-mass, it just acts as a conduit for grabbing it all, as part of the “Five Eyes” network, and passes it all on to the NSA, for them to use whatever way they like. The real concern with this, is that this data will be available to ANY future totalitarian regime, to use against us, at any future date, like a “time travel gift from the past, to that future regime”. THAT is the core issue with this whole saga. Something we did, in your youth, in 2014, could be used against us, in, (say), 2034, by some future ratbag totalitarian regime that may have seized power by them.
The issue of the GCSB also, separately to the above, actively targeting a small number of New Zealanders, on behalf of the SIS or Police, with a warrant to do so, is a totally SEPARATE operation, but that is not such a big deal, although it is also a cause for concern. However, our PM is deliberately conflating the two separate types of GCSB activities, pretending that the ONLY kind of “spying on Kiwis” activity they do is the very occasional, legal, with a warrant kind. THAT is a deliberate falsehood. He is “doing a Bill Clinton”, by defining the words “mass surveillence” in a different manner than how most people would define them, and he is doing that deliberately, in order to deceive the public of NZ.
Does this mean I can find all my old emails, twitter posts, phone texts through an official information request? Saves on backup data charges.
I was a big National supporter (now gone over to the Greens even if they have some batshit crazy policies), but if this is true, John Key has no choice but to resign.
I would like to see a vote for a political party treated the same as a contract. The party has policies, on the basis of those policies, I cast my vote for that party. If they then either renege or change the policies, I am then able to sue them for breach of contract.
Good luck with that
“Does this mean I can find all my old emails, twitter posts, phone texts through an official information request?”
No. Look up the definition of ‘MetaData”. Don’t take these loonies seriously.
I take it you didn’t watch the event tonight.
Snowdon specifically stated that the entire email, text, etc could/can be read. Not just metadata.
All he had to do was tick a box and results from New Zealand would pop up, metadata and the contents. Now ask yourself, how does that information get gathered?
At least learn a bit about what you are publicly dismissing. Otherwise it just makes you look like a fool.
It’s more than metadata. Snowden proved that tonight.
The burying the head in the sand has begun.
Garner for one “just wants his country back” from these meanies like Dotcom who is out to get our PM (I love you John). He quotes some text or email that Kim Dotcom is out for Kim Dotcom and he thinks a lot of New Zealanders think the same.
I can’t help but think when a real journalist comes into town the pretenders are going to get mighty bitchy.
Some of these revelations tonight may be quite embarrassing and reflect badly on NZ, but if someone tells you this and its true then why pretend that those who are in government who are entrusted to run this country are some kind of moral, ethical saints when clearly they are not.
If push comes to shove I expect Key will throw Helen Clark under the bus in a futile attempt to save his skin.
Exactly. Our hacks, like Garner and Armstrong, aren’t worthy of the name journalist. They’re PR men for John X-Keyscore. They’re not going to like a real journalist, Greenwald, suggesting to them they might like to haul themselves off their reasonably large butts and ask the Teflon Man some real questions for a change. They allow X-Keyscore to get away with talking BS, no matter what they ask him. He knows they’re useless and nothing more than his tame, toothless lapdogs.
The morning after the moment of truth TV3 comes up with a poll suggesting Hone Harawira may lose his seat and also trailers a programme denigrating Kim Dotcom. Coincidence I don’t think so. TV3 is about as unbiased in this election as David Cameron is in the Scottish referendum. they are fast becoming Nz’s Fox News and we all know what a joke that organisation is.
I would generally agree with that but with one caveat – that of John Campbell who refuses to let X-Key get away with the bull. Which is probably why the donkey refuses to front up and appear – because he won’t get a free ride to distract.
How about some criticism of those who employ journalists, the media bosses and the Editors-in-chief? The employers and managers of “boots on the ground” journalists can and do choose who does the work, direct the work, edit the work, and “decide” not to publish the work if it doesn’t suit their agenda. Most of our best journalists work overseas; at least ten Kiwi journalists work for Al Jazeera. Who we get our mainstream reporting from are, in large part, malleable and pliable “pretty young things” or wizened and died-in-the-wool “hacks”. Media ownership and control is the elephant in the room. How can journalists “do their job” when they are expected to “do what they’re told” and “give us more of what you’re paid to give us”?
Has anyone seen the Herald’s headline at the moment? “Dotcom big reveal ‘a fake'”
The timing of their article is so obviously timed to undermine the big reveal I felt physically ill when I saw it.
I’ve got so used to deception and lies in NZ politics that when the reveals from Dirty Politics came out I barely registered any major feelings of surprise but the behavior of the Herald has really shocked me. I feel sick to think that this is what our country has come to with the ‘newspaper of record’ (to misquote Chomsky) being used to deliberately mislead us.
I know the Herald has always been biased toward the right but I find it hard to believe it would participate in such an obvious stunt. The best I can hope for is that they got leaned on in a major way by someone.
Because it IS a fake. And such an obvious one that anyone who believes is a fool.
and the documents released by Edward Snowden tonight are fake too?
are you okay with our government spying on us, and lying about it?
do you have anything to hide?
do you want to live in a democracy or a dictatorship?
“and the documents released by Edward Snowden tonight are fake too?”
What documents? There was nothing released tonight that proves any of the main claims made. Nothing.
“are you okay with our government spying on us, and lying about it?”
Yes, and no. I have no problem with the Govt monitoring metadata, simply because I prefer that to terrorists flying into buildings. And no, but then you have evidence they did.
“do you have anything to hide?”
No.
“do you want to live in a democracy or a dictatorship?”
A democracy. And we do. Which is why I despise left wing politics, because it is almost always accompanied by encroachments on our freedoms.
Three documents were released tonight that prove the spying. They were at the start of the talk. No-one, not the American govt, not the NSA, not any other overseas govt affected by Snowden’s leaks have ever suggested he is lying or the documents he has are fake. The three documents do prove spying wholesale on our country.
Snowden then explained how it works.
You have no evidence at all that the email Dotcom has is fake and since it’s his ass on the line I doubt he has an email he can’t back up in court.
I’m sorry, I know that this is painful for those of you on the right but surely you want a party and a country that you can be proud of again, not constantly running around the internet trying to cover your leader’s lies. Just take the time out of govt to make sure National cleans up it’s act and cleans out as much of the dodgy people that it can and maybe next election you guys can play clean and hold your head high. And maybe we can all get a chance to talk about policy rather than corruption.
Absolute power corrupts absolutely. You might feel differently if one day you disagreed with the current regime and then found child sex images on your computer. Now is the time to nip this crap in the bud and demand better from our leaders than scaremongering about terrorists.
@Lara:
IV is like all gNat supporters – no moral values!
Theres no hope for the gNats now – it isn’t just FJK who has lied – they all have!
And now I ask myself: Why isn’t David Cunliffe going to STOP the TPPA?
Wonder what he will have to say or do about this.
Opinion
John X-Keyscore is a fake and you’re the fool.
There are none so blind as though who will not READ. Can’t you see?
John – X- SCORE Key.
John -X-KEY SCORE …NO MATTER YOU SAY IT- THE LIE REMAINS.
From the linked Greenwald/ Gallagher Intercept post:
Which tells us just how seriously the GCSB “accessing the actual content of a communication” is regarded. My guess is that the “protections around that” pertain to timelimits aimed at preventing RSI in GCSB spies.
Surely it will only be his office that has to resign?
How does a room resign? I suppose we’ll find out.
Is this IT???? This is exactly what Key said the other day. What’s new? The GCSB wanted to do something. Key said no. Is this seriously it???
It has been proven tonight that the GCSB has been spying on New Zealanders. Snowden and Greenwald released three documents and explained in detail how it works. Not even the NSA or the American govt have ever suggested that Snowden is lying or has fake or forged information. I know this is difficult for those of you on the right to hear but at least after the election you can have a break from running around comment sections on the internet trying to dismiss the corruption coming from your party.
John -X – KEY SCORE.
Key said ‘absolutely, go ahead.’
It’s a bit rich you talking about treason when your paymaster has as his star act one Edward Snowden, who is actually guilty of treason. Ah, but then he was sharing the stage with a convicted fraudster, so go figure.
See moron,…this isn’t about terrorists per se’….this is about mass surveillance which a) Key said wasn’t occurring but is, and b) trade laws tied up in the coming TTPA which ..if a country goes against code 301 means the USA uses embargoes , which -will be very very severe.
And effectively our sovereign ability to determine our own trade laws becomes null and void – subject only to USA law….which means…annexation.
You happy with that so far you idiot?
Now ,…here’s where it gets all fun and games…
Not only did Key lie about the whole process , – at the time he WAS lying, there was a phase 1 which the NSA completed..tapping into the Pacific cable.
The second phase included a law change to enable the mass surveillance. That was completed when Key rushed through the law change – with loopholes attached , of course -to justify the legality of spying on every electronic communications device .
Hollywood has a major role in drawing up the plans for corporate laws- particularly for another body designed just for large American corporate’s. Not New Zealands corporate’s , – theirs.
If your happy with a lying bullshit Prime Minister by all means-knock yourself out- until then..dont talk shit till you know a bit more about the facts.
And there will be and is a lot more to add to these scant few sentences …and most definitely will spell the end of Key .
lol.
You are funny, IT!
You run down a man who sacrificed a pretty wonderful existence forever because he saw what the US was secretly doing to its people, and many millions of others around the globe, and felt he had to stand against it. Yet you hail John X-Keyscore, a US puppet who is following their instructions to allow the same thing to happen to us. You, Intrin-sick, are as big a traitor to the country as your smarmy, smiling pal.
John -X- KEY SCORE.
It isn’t treason if it is something the public needs to know and the state is keeping it secret against it’s own laws.
Why was there no mention of the email tonight? Has Kim already seen for himself it was a fake?
And why the fuck do you ignore what was just said, moron?- ‘changing the subject because you dont want to demonstrate you know jack shit about all this’?
Or is it that you still believe in the tooth fairy and Santa Claus ?
Does a lying PM seem like too much of a concept for you that you cant work it out in that non brain of yours?…or are you so autistic you cant get past your beloved National party?
Think its more of the latter to be honest.
Wow, a lot of comments from you here tonight. You guys must really be worried. I don’t blame you. The international media is reporting the wholesale spying of New Zealanders as the fact that it is.
I’m sure the defending of your corrupt govt has taken a toll on you over the last few years, Key has made some of his lies pretty defensible.
It has been referred to the Parliamentary Privileges Committee through the offices of the Speaker of the House the proper way to do things. You ignorant argumentative fuck knuckle. There are correct and lawful procedures to follow in NZ if you care to be engaged in the process. The PM and your fan boy doesn’t get it and never will.
I almost hope he wins on Saturday so he has to deal with the clusterfuck of governing with Moonbeam Craig and the Epsom incest boy, arming every dairy owner in the country, along with Collins, Joyce and whoever else is lining up to stab him in the back; he thoroughly fuckin deserves three years of that shit storm.
But we don’t.
John – X – KEY SCORE.
The scandalous John X-Keyscore must go. Biggest crook in the country, a traitor to the NZ people.
Listen to Key on Campbell Live in August 2013. He categorically denies that the GCSB has access to NZ’s data through other countries. This is an outright fabrication…
http://www.3news.co.nz/tvshows/campbelllive/john-key-defends-the-gcsb-bill-2013081419
Around the 13 minute mark.
“Does XKeyScore exist?”
“It may well exist overseas”
Well, it does exist and NZ is a part of it.
So, Glenn Greenwald tells us we need to hold FJK accountable, for the first metadata probe (Speargun) undertaken by our GCSB mid 2013, and I agree.
Robert Amsterdam calls FJK a traitor, says NZ is being annexed by USA, and I agree.
Edward Snowden reveals NZ is part of the ‘sensor network’.
X-Keyscore is all about our GCSB not only using mass surveilance, but they have expanded it too! He asks us “what are we going to do about it?”
Very interesting – good to see the evidence now, and have these whistle-blowing truths out in public .
So, if FJK is not a traitor, you would think that he will be laying charges against Robert Amsterdam tomorrow to prove he isn’t. Lol, imagine that happening (FJK laying charges of slander), and then the legal mind of Amsterdam laying out even more evidence to prove that he truly is a traitor!!!!
This was awesome. Loved it. And What are we going to do about it?!
Looking forward to FJKs next move. This will be hilarious I reckon.
FJK you traitorous heathen!!!!!
Be Gone Tomorrow!!!
Opinion and belief.
These naysayers are agents from overseas working for corporations to take over this country as every time they poo poo evidence it is so clear they want to ignore it no matter what, so aa vested nterest come though clear as day.
We saw terrifying evidence that we in NZ are being used by abroad to drag data through our so called friendly country for other countries to use, and we are now so exposed.
Clearly the TPPA was mentioned in big detail tonight and motice Keys’ henchman Intrinsic value never went near the TPPA subject?
This shows he is NSA mole right there so fuck off you spy sick fuck yankee.
We on to you now you agent of TPPA.
What concerns me most, is how mainstream media deal with the matter. And how they repeat the vernacular of the Prime Minister and his PR team. Why do they ignore “human rights”, “NZ Law Society recommendations” and NZ`s leading academic in this area Jane Kelsey? Because they`re government parrots, repeating “henchmen” across radio, tv, press and embedding the word into the daily conversations of Kiwi`s in every dining room, office and bar.
Key is a master of semantics and the media are parrots.
“I would have a modicum of respect for the guy [Greenwald] if he had the guts to turn up here six months before the election, or six months after.”
Then… why did you, Mr. Key, not have the guts to answer when you were directly asked exactly the points revealed yesterday twelve months ago…!
JOHN X KEYSCORE = PROJECT SPEARGUN PROGRAMME > TAPPING SOUTHERN CROSS CABLE > 2013 INSERT METADATA PROBE > XKEYSCORE > MASS SURVEILLANCE .
WAS THIS DONE FOR DESIGNATING TERRORISTS?
NO !!!
IT WAS DONE FOR MASS SURVEILLANCE OF OUR POPULATION.
IT WAS DONE TO ENABLE CORPORATE LAWS OF USA UNDER SECTION 301 TO PLACE EMBARGOES ON ROGUE SIGNATORIES TO THE TTPA.
THIS = ANNEXATION BY USA AND LOSS OF SOVEREIGNTY OF EACH SIGNATORY COUNTRY’S TRADE LAWS.
FACE IT , NEW ZEALAND , JOHNXKEYSCORE HAS BEEN LYING TO YOU.
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