Of course the Greens could work with National



A warm soy latte with John Key?


Sharp in take of breath moment as TVNZ last night reported Greens could work with National post the election if National win.

It’s a smart move.

The Greens are so viciously anti-tribal they are  viciously tribal. Their kaupapa is to work with everyone and not be bound by the ideological hatreds of the past. On one hand that is great for those soft National Party voters who are in open mouthed horror at the revelations in Dirty Politics but who are refusing to move to Labour, on the other hand, those staunch left vote who want to be assured their vote would never support National have options to go to Internet MANA.

This isn’t stupid. The 1% they may shed to Internet MANA is offset by the 2% they could pick up from National.

Soft National vote focus groups are coming back with over 50% believing Key is lying about Dirty Politics and negative comments and sentiments about National have skyrocketed in those focus groups. That shift of revulsion isn’t moving to Labour, so the Greens wanting to suggest they could work with National post election IF National wins, is a clever tactic.

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People forget how pro market the Greens really are, the rebuilding of our economic infrastructure will only occur at the speed necessary to combat climate change if the real cost of pollution is priced into the cost.

The Greens will work with everyone and anyone for positive change, in an election as divisive and as nasty as this one with so many bridges burnt, it’s an interesting tactic.

I think the Greens are still on their way to 15%,  their campaign has to date been one of the best this election. Traditionally the Greens suffer higher results in the polling than they do on election day. I think that’s been because as a pretty middle class party, the Greens would be over represented in landline opinion polls, but this election I think their support base and networks have built incredibly strong currents in the under 40 demographic that will see them do better at the ballot box than they are doing in the polling.


    • Yes, you are at is what Bomber said.
      We went through this at the last election.
      We know the Greens would never go into a coalition with National, but they might put together a policy that National will go and take credit for.
      I hope the Greens don’t do what they did last time. The Greens should leave the Nats to their own devices and stop making them look more centrist than they are.

  1. It all comes down to what is meant by ‘work with’, which I am sure the GP and Martyn are both well aware of.

    Bear in mind that ‘work with’ does not equal form a coalition with, or support on confidence and supply.

    • In my opinion the Left has in the last two weeks completely destroyed any chance that it had of winning power and they only have themselves to blame.
      I saw the Internet Mana Party as the key to a Left wing alliance winning the election because it was authentically left wing, was guaranteed not to join a National alliance and with any encouragement at all was almost certain to get the 5% thresh-hold vote to pick up the necessary seats.
      From the beginning Labour has tried to destroy that party by refusing to negotiate with it, to the point that Labour prefers to deal with NZ First, a party that will bed anybody and cannot be trusted. Even Chris Trotter shares that preference.
      In the last week or so the Internet Mana Party has shot itself in the foot by legalising cannabis. There is nothing wrong with drug reform, but putting the policy up in lights will needlessly alienate some of its supporters, not because it is wrong but because, ranked against the multitude of issues that this country faces, cannabis is trivial. This piece of stupidity is the equivalent of the Greens anti-smacking law, which is trotted out everytime a redneck party wants a few easy votes. The outcome is that the Internet Party vote has collapsed and the NZ First Party is probably safely over the thresh-hold, the very worst possible outcome.
      Now we have the Greens saying that they will work with National. Please dont tell me that “it depends on what ‘work’ means”. The average voter is not that subtle – it means what it says and the Greens are saying “A vote for Green may be a vote or National”. What madness is this?
      There are voters, and I am one, who will not vote for National, or with any party that could offer its votes to National. The Labour vote is going no-where, nor does it deserve better. I cannot now vote for the Greens, who will lose votes by their recent manouevre. NZ First and the Conservatives may both reach 5%, thanks to the cannabis debacle, and may give their votes to National. A Left wing victory is now arithmetically impossible.
      Where does that leave me? By a process of elimination, I am reduced to voting for Internet Mana or the Democrats, neither if which are going to get the 5% vote needed to be relevant.

  2. I agree with MB .
    Imagine , for a moment , the Green party in with National ?

    It’d be like seeing a rose amongst stinging nettles in the flower vase . It would’nt be long before the nettles ended up in the compost .

    • Yes, the Greens would need to manage any such relationship very carefully to avoid getting stung.

      But would this not be better if the only alternative was another three years of NAct? The irreparable damage of this Government continuing unchanged does not bear thinking about.

  3. These days, the whole world is aware of environmental issues. Most of the political parties are well aware and have good environment policies also. Environment is no longer the sole preserve of the green party and it can not arrogate it alone as if it is its birthright. I can not put my finger on it but I always have some distrust of the green party tactics.

    • Nor is economic sensibility the preserve of National or Labour (although god knows that is a farcical term in light of National’s track record.) Of course the Greens will continue to promote environmental issues – It’s the foundation of their existence. However, along the way, they have embraced a wide range of policy, and they are doing a pretty damned good job of it. If you distrust their tactics, I wonder then what you think of National’s.

  4. There is no way two fundamentally opposed parties could work togeather in a coalition. The Natz will never give any meaningful concessions to the Greens.

  5. I think you’re spot on with your analysis Martyn. Russel Norman has repeated that the Greens have already ‘worked’ with National with the home insulation scheme. To say that you could ‘work’ with another party is really to state the obvious. You’d have to be pretty intransigent not to be able to find one issue. What the Greens refuse to do is compromise their principles (unlike John Armstrong) in any working coalition with a party that is their antithesis.

  6. There is so much to loath about this National government along with John Key and sundry ministers that associating in any form with them would to me, be the kiss of death. And I guess knowing that voting Greens could bring Key back into the driver’s seat certainly puts me off. They will get big arse fleas lying with that dog.

    The same risk will carry over to Winston Peters. I could not care less about Craig or ACT.

    Best of luck to the Greens though, it will open the real estate up on the left.

  7. While I agree that a Nat-Green coalition is not ideal (a Labour-led coalition with a strong Green and IMP influence would clearly be better), if the only alternatives given the numbers after the 20th were Nat-Green or Nat-NZ First-ACT etc., then Nat-Green would be the lesser of the evils.

    It would also give the Greens the chance to demonstrate how much they are about policies and outcomes, and not just about power (something it seems Labour has yet to learn IMHO). Think about it – if the Greens got significant ministries they could make an impact in their own right and take the nasty edge off the Nats.

    What would be realistically possible?
    – Environment (naturally) – Russel Norman or Catherine Delahunty
    – Transport – Julie-Anne Genter
    – Social Development – Metiria Turei (or maybe Health)

    (Russel Norman as Minister of Finance would be really good, but unlikely the Nats would agree… or Labour for that matter. The point is to get Greens heavy hitters in portfolios where they cna exert real influence)

    Right there in even these three portfolios is a chance to stop and reverse the worst excesses of the Key Government. There should even be a few more cherries available as well.

    Of course doing the same in a Labour-led coalition would be better. But this course would still be preferable to the nightmare of another three years of unfettered NAct madness.

    • “It would also give the Greens the chance to demonstrate how much they are about policies and outcomes, and not just about power (something it seems Labour has yet to learn IMHO). Think about it – if the Greens got significant ministries they could make an impact in their own right and take the nasty edge off the Nats.”

      That assumes National would offer them any significant portfolios, which I seriously doubt they would. They would just use them for confidence and supply, concede to a few token policies, and behind their backs carry on with the usual sneering dismissals.

      The Greens don’t need to partner with National to prove their integrity, and would in fact probably just endanger it if they did. I really don’t see such a coalition ever working, simply because National are just too spiteful and manipulative to ever let it.

  8. As one of the soft NP voters I don’t think that its a bad idea the Greens getting into bed with National.
    Imagine the “dirty politics” that would go on under that coalition 😉

  9. ffs……………Surely not! The Greens with National………..what a complete sell out. Remember what happened to the Maori Party.

    National are completely corrupt and if the Greens can’t see through Shonkey I will do a deal with anyone, cause winning is all that matters!

    It seems like Labour is the only party currently with any integrity.

    • God damned right. Its a win win for National.

      1, They get credibility by parasitically using the Greens good name and image to paper over their worn corrupt image.

      2, And this association will tarnish the Greens who will become mired in the sewer the National Party reside in and be diffused as an effective opposition and alternative.

      I beginning to think no one in the Greens have read Hager’s book either! Do you really want to sup with this devil, no matter how long the spoon??

  10. Well, this just helped me decide . Mana for me ( and I seriously have been torn between the two ) Anybody that works with Key is not getting my vote . The guy is the worst PM this country has EVER had and the thought of having to look at him for another 3 years because the GREENS were in coalition with him is sickening .

  11. When I first heard this, I was confused. After some thought, as I was going to party vote Green, I’m now pretty clear. I will not vote for any party that concedes it could ‘work’ with the Natz. No-one else will get any say in the things that matter to them, so who are the Greens kidding. It just seems like a sell out to me and so it will be party vote Labour now.

    • I think we would all be wise to remember that the Green party have already “worked with” National on a number of areas to forward causes and principles. doesn’t mean they are in coalition with them. Reach for your chamomile tea and calm down, folks.

  12. I think much of what is being said is a beat-up. I am a Green party member of 11 years standing (the first political party I ever actually joined, I am 64). I will be giving two ticks to the Greens. To say you can work with a party as in having a memorandum of understanding is sensible in my view, they are not nor would they ever go into coalition with the National party, never I am sure of that. Getting some gains around environmental and other policies surely is what we on the left all want and that is what they did over the last 3 years and to me it makes a lot of sense. The Greens are not and never have been just an environmental party they have been very strong on getting kids out of poverty, booting out pokies, housing and other social issues. I will also be very happy to see the Internet-Mana party get lots of MPs because I like their polices too.

  13. I totally agree with Ann. Previously I have voted Labour for local representation and Green for the party vote. Now I would give Labour both my votes. Russell Norman is looking sick and silly at the moment and Key is crowing that he wouldn’t want anything to do with the Greens anyway. So bad move Russell, showing how venal and unprincipled you are. You haven’t done the Greens any favours so late in the piece!

  14. Well I must say that considering how many people are in prison or court for cannabis, and how much money and police resources are used because of it, I would hardly call cannabis a trivial issue.
    Imagine the millions saved if it was decriminalised or even legalised. Then imagine spending all that dosh on more important things like hungry kids etc.
    Personally I think its a very important issue, and one which is amazingly making me consider changing my vote from Labour for the first time ever to Internet Mana.

  15. As a Green I would say that this has been a media beat up and designed to try to curtail the progress made by the Greens this election. Russell has said quite categorically that National are diametrically opposed to the Greens, have a pollution based economy etc, and as such it is “highly unlikely” that the Greens would support them. However, because Greens want to see their policies advanced, not matter who holds the reins of power, where there are areas of commonality (however small) then it makes sense to work cooperatively – that is part of Green philosophy.

  16. well it’s turned into a bit of a shit show for left leaning voters! Had intended to vote for Mana in the hope that Labour would need their support but thanks to Pam Corkery’s unprofessional outburst and the predictable media focus on their cannabis policy it seems a vote for Mana will be a wasted vote! No wonder Hone was so pissed off! Then when asked who he respected as a politician Russell Norman chose to validate Bill English saying he thought he was an honest man! Meanwhile standing alongside him Hone, Te Ururoa and even Brendan Horan would have got my endorsement over English! That signalled the Greens cosying up to their growing green middle class vote and I will not vote for anyone prepared to work with Tric-KEY and then we have Labour ruling out working with the Maori Party to keep Winston on side! the supposed left have made it very difficult for us! This whole debacle is about appealing to the small percentage of undecided middle earth sheeple who will probably decide who to vote for on the day based on something random like how nice Paula Bennett looked in that dress on tv the night before. Labour, once again have played into the Nats hands by trying to appeal to idiots and ignoring their core supporters again! Oh well fingers crossed for a miracle!

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