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Pro-Israel, Pro-Palestine or ‘Pro-Peace’?

By   /  July 27, 2014  /  28 Comments

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In the past couple of weeks I have heard a lot of people say that they are neither Pro-Israel nor Pro-Palestine; they are pro-peace. This is a stand that I respect. Everyone is genuinely pro-peace in their hearts, but in this context I don’t really understand what this means.

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Latest protest for people of Gaza in Auckland

In the past couple of weeks I have heard a lot of people say that they are neither Pro-Israel nor Pro-Palestine; they are pro-peace. This is a stand that I respect. Everyone is genuinely pro-peace in their hearts, but in this context I don’t really understand what this means.

Everyone already knows what it means to be Pro-Israel or Pro-Palestine. In order to be ‘pro-peace’ however, being anti colonisation and anti occupation is a fundamental part of that, because while these two things exist and are endorsed, there will never be true, long-lasting peace. Peace and occupation are two things that will obviously never go hand-in-hand. This should really go without saying.

Therefore in order to be ‘pro-peace’, one is ‘pro-Palestine’ by default. So why can’t people just say that?

The mainstream narrative in the media makes it hard for people to say that, although I do believe that the power dynamic is changing with the rise of social media and alternative journalism.

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The facts and history about the conflict and current situation speak for themselves though, which is the reason why claiming to be pro-peace in the face of genocide is a cop out. It’s a form of silence and neutrality, and as Archbishop Desmond Tutu says ‘If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality”.

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28 Comments

  1. Maria says:

    ‘If you are neutral in situations of injustice, you have chosen the side of the oppressor. If an elephant has its foot on the tail of a mouse and you say that you are neutral, the mouse will not appreciate your neutrality.” Amen Latifa. Free Palestine.

    • Tom says:

      Fine words, but they have little applicability to Palestine. The game has been effectively over for at least a decade now, if not longer.

      Peace and occupation are two things that will obviously never go hand-in-hand. This should really go without saying. Therefore in order to be ‘pro-peace’, one is ‘pro-Palestine’ by default.

      Not necessarily. I think the Palestinians are wholly in the right and that the government of Israel tipped over into outright fascism some time back. A third of the ruling coalition is comprised of openly racist parties.

      The Palestinians cannot win. Israel acts with complete impunity and will continue to do so for the foreseeable future due to diplomatic support from the US. It has been proven time and again since 2006 that Israel can commit almost any atrocity at no cost to itself.

      Things are going to get worse for the people of Gaza until they leave on makeshift boats for the Mahgreb or southern Europe, and that seems to be what will happen in the end. The same will happen on a smaller scale to the Palestinian residents of the West Bank.

      Nobody has a workable plan for any other solution. There’s no way the US will withdraw support, and there’s no way that Israelis are going to stop electing racist, authoritarian governments. There’s just no play here for the Palestinians. They would be better off leaving rather than sacrificing themselves to make others feel better.

      • Maria says:

        Apartheid Sth Africa lasted over 4 decades and fell to its knees part in due to international pressure… leaving is an option but Palestinians have been shut off from exits by the Israeli army…. Gaza is literally an enclosed region being bombed the hell out of. It’s one thing to be pro-peace and have solutions in the comforts of our home, it’s another thing to live in it and try and stay alive, keep your loved ones alive too and escape. This shit is real for them.

        http://humanizepalestine.com

  2. Tamati says:

    If Hamas only want peace, why did they reject the extension to the cease fire?

    Perhaps if Israel directed their strikes to some 5 star hotels in Qatar then they would get some more attention?

    • Shrubbery says:

      Because the concept of “peace” espoused in the proposed cease-fire is a status quo where Israel continues to occupy Palestine and oppress Palestinians. Hamas can only accept a peace deal that involves Israel ceasing occupation of Palestine.

      • Intrinsicvalue says:

        Israel occupies Palestinian territories because of historical Arab aggression. If the Palestinians had accepted the terms in 1948, they would have their territories and they would have peace. Stop the rockets.

        • Who Gnu says:

          Intrinsic – your knowledge of history is sadly flawed. The product of self-delusion or sheer stupidity?

      • AndyS says:

        The only “peace deal” that Hamas will accept is the destruction of the State of Israel and the expulsion or death of all the Jews living there

    • Arto says:

      B b but the rockets! What about the rockets???

      • Win says:

        Gaza is a prison. Israel controls what and who goes in and out. Even the calories they deem people need. Gazana have had enough. Israel, US and the West need to sort something out otherwise Palestinians will be exterminate with or without the bombing. Gaza also has gas reserves as has Eastern Ukraine – see a link?

        This is a video of a interview of a doctor working in Gaza and from Gaza, by democracynow.org. I think he answers that question you posed Tamati. But yes it may seem 1+1 should equal 2. But it doesn’t.

        http://www.democracynow.org/2014/7/25/doctor_after_losing_everything_gazans_cling

    • Who Gnu says:

      Tamati – because “peace” on the terms of the aggressor is not”peace”. It is capitulation. I trust that is sufficiently clear for right wing potato heads like you?

    • swordfish says:

      Why did Hamas reject the extension to the ceasefire ?, Tamati – have a listen to Norman Finkelstein here… http://youtu.be/NIg2XeSrx18

  3. Laura says:

    Thank you.

  4. Mistery Mistery says:

    “Therefore in order to be ‘pro-peace’, one is ‘pro-Palestine’ by default. So why can’t people just say that?”

    People can’t say that because it is not true.
    To a Palestinian it would be true.
    To an Israeli it would not be true – rather this would be true: “Therefore in order to be ‘pro-peace’, one is ‘pro-Israeli’ by default.”

    To a pro-peace human being, it is that nobody has the right to kill any mothers child.
    Who do any of these people – Palestinians or Israelis think they are, killing mothers children. None of them have any right to do this, and it is all that simple.

    Do mothers grow their children just so evilman can battle evilman, and kill them. No. They grow them and love them for not-killing.
    This is pro-peace!

    Opinion.

    • Maria says:

      So should mothers and fathers in Gaza, not be upset that their children are being intentionally murdered and let it happen? If someone had the intention of murdering your children would you adopt the pro-peace stance at that moment …. or would you be prepared to defend them?

      • Mistery Mistery says:

        @Maria.

        These parents should be upset at their own governments for saying “Go kill!”. Because this is what happened. The Leaders of these countries said to the Leaders of their armies “Go kill!”

        They could have chosen the peaceable way of negotiation with a UN mediator present. But they chose the violence over the peace.

        The Israel and Palestine Leaders are as bad as each other, and the leaders of their armies could have said “No killing, we will find a peaceful solution.”
        But they didn’t, they chose to kill!

        Opinion and belief.

        • Maria says:

          How do we know they haven’t told their leaders this? We have told our current leaders many things we do not agree with and have they listened? For us to sit here in NZ and talk about peace, love and happiness, is a bit off, when families are being targeted in the most abhorrent ways, defenseless. All I know is if that was happening to me in a confined space, with my loved ones and I knew the rest of the world picked ‘ hey but, we are for world peace’ ahead of -‘ this is a palestinian mass genocide conducted by Israel and funded by America, and it needs to stop’ remembering the number of lives says alot about who has the most ‘military power,’… I would not be impressed at all. Right now I am asking why the hell haven’t the UN stepped in?

          • Maria says:

            We are part of the 5 eyes network, that condones drone strikes. Ashamedly, we are now part of the problem. Not in my name.

            • Mistery Mistery says:

              Agree Maria.

              No, not in your name, or mine either. It is in John Keys name the way NZ has been ‘set up’ recently with the yanks.

              Where is the UN? Where are all the world leaders? Why do leaders and men want to kill the innocent?

              Who said they could?

              It must be by design.

              The world is a very sick place right now.

              So how do you turn off the lights there at Blenheim?

              Opinion and belief.

              • Maria says:

                Agree! The world is not in a good place at the moment…. Sometimes its overwhelming… and I think surely not… this is not possible… this could not happen… then think about all the other things mankind has done to each other …… and yea… its so possible… and mankind can and will do anything to each other…. I am not in Blenheim… but am hanging down South 🙂 Have a blessed end of week.

  5. Harry says:

    “Therefore in order to be ‘pro-peace’, one is ‘pro-Palestine’ by default. So why can’t people just say that?”

    Because that is as simplistic as saying, I support such and such party in politics, because they must be right (always).

    Being “pro peace” is simplistic, perhaps a bit naive, I would say, but at least it expresses a clear desire and goal.

    Those that know a bit about the history of Israel and Palestine will understand the matter is much more complex and extremely difficult to resolve.

    Even Palestinians are not really united on a fair few political and other issues. Fatah and the PLO appear to have settled for a two state solution, and somehow accepts the right of the state of Israel to exist (in 1967 borders). Hamas does to my knowledge still not accept the right of the modern state of Israel to exist.

    So despite of recent conciliation between those groups, there still is some lack of clarity re the right of Israel to exist, and a Jewish state to exist, amongst Palestinians.

    Some question the right of Israel to exist full stop, and want one united Palestine, which may be fair enough, but then some kinds of elections may need to be held, but the decades of division and hatred will make a poor basis for that to work.

    Israel is the superior military power, and the stronger economic player, and wants to keep Gaza and the West Bank under its control. They breach UN resolutions and international law by occupying much of the West Bank and also holding a siege on Gaza.

    There are only two options, either negotiate and come to an agreement, or continue to fight until the last drop of blood.

    I fear most New Zealanders have too little understanding how serious the situation is, and it will never be resolved easily.

    Simply taking sides will not solve anything either, as both sides are guilty of atrocities and manipulations. The one side that deserves all sympathy are the Palestinian civilians, who are taken advantage of for political and strategic purposes by both warring sides, if we would be honest about it.

    Hardly deserving any credit are most of the other Arab nations, who mostly stand by, and do very little to assist the Palestinians, apart from some “aid” they pay, to let them continue to live in their ghettoes. In the countries where there are tens or hundreds of thousands of Palestinan refugees, they are second or third class citizens, not really accepted and wanted, only at best “tolerated”.

    What kind of “brotherhood” and “sisterhood” is that?

    The UN must play a key role, but with the present UN leadership, you can forget anything positive happening there. Bang Ki Mun or what is name is is a useless bureaucrat, without clout and brains, just as the US and other senior powers love him to be.

    The whole situations is a huge mess, sadly.

  6. Ovicula says:

    I’m pro humanity, which makes me pro Palestine by default. The Zionists are causing the majority of Israelis to lose their humanity, their morality, and their decency. Some Israelis and Jews around the world are standing against this. I salute them.

    The latest round of atrocities have convinced me to join BDS. We should kick the Zionist embassy out of Aotearoa and revoke the visa free entry of Israelis. Those who have done their military service bullying Palestinians do not deserve to relax in our beautiful land.

    • Win says:

      It’s amazing that the government sits on its hands and does nothing except the meaningless platitudes that shows John Key doesn’t understand the situation or he is a US puppet.

    • AndyS says:

      So being pro-humanity equates to supporting Hamas, an organisation that wilfully lets its citizens be slaughtered for propaganda purposes?

      I guess the Hamas billionaires that are laughing their socks off in Qatar must love the “pro-humanity” supporters round here

  7. Barry says:

    The trouble is that even if Israel disappeared tomorrow – nothing would change. The people like Hamas have a need to have a fight with someone.

    have a look at the arab world. Libya, Egypt, Sudan, Somalia, Yemen, Iraq, Iran , Syria – all in a state of some sort of conflict. Then theres the arab terrorist running around places like Nigeria where theyve taken girls as hostages.
    The there are the other arab countries where their civil wars are on hold – algeria, morocco, tunisia, lebanon, kuwait, etc.

    No – expecting the palestinian extremists to find the word Peace in their dictionary is impossible.

    • Who Gnu says:

      “The people like Hamas have a need to have a fight with someone. ”

      Only oppressors Barry. Like the old white regime in Sth Africa who you also supported, no doubt?

      • Barry says:

        what?

        who gnu – whatever has the south african regime got to do with this?

        All I was saying is that all over the arab world they all seem to be having a war with someone. Im not sure who you think the oppressors are in egypt or syria etc – but they certainly arent the israelis or “white regimes’ (your words). This fact isnt some dreamed up but of rubbish – these civil wars are all real. All arab versus other arab or orther muslim (and also in many countries where the main religion is Muslim – Afghanistan, Pakistan and others). Its as though there was some gene in the arab make up thats compels them to go shot somebody – anyone will do it seems.

  8. […] Language like “Israel and Palestine have to learn to live side-by-side with each other” makes it sound like Israel and Palestine are two naughty kids who can’t stop fighting in the back seat of the car, rather than acknowledging that this is a situation of oppression and resistance (if that’s not clear to you, this video is a good, clear intro). Trying to be “balanced” or “neutral” on Israel/Palestine is exactly like being “balanced” on Australian colonial genocide or “neutral” between blacks and whites in apartheid South Africa. Israel bear the vast majority of responsibility for all those killed on both sides, because they’re in the position of the oppressor, coloniser and aggressor. Without acknowledging Israel’s occupation and domination of Palestine, we cannot understand the Israel-Palestine conflict, and without addressing it, we cannot genuinely hope for peace. […]

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