Confidence and supply bottom lines in MANA Movement-Internet Party Alliance


What do Hone and Kim have in common? They’ve both been spied on by the GCSB

I think the bottom lines in a MANA Movement-Internet Party Alliance could be the following

1 – Replace the National Party led Government
2 – Feed the Kids rolled out to decile 1-4 schools
3 – 20 000 new state houses
4 – Repeal the GCSB & TICS legislation and refuse to sign the TPPA
5 – End digital divide with free internet at all schools, libraries and Marae
6 – Mass public investment into internet infrastructure including a second cable

Those 6 would be the agreed policy that their combined total of MPs would push in any negotiation with Labour and Greens for confidence and supply.

An Alliance could allow electorate MANA candidates to stand as MANA candidates on the ballot and the Alliance combined party list of both parties would be what people voted for as their party vote.

MANA can gain 3 MPs on their own, so the first three spaces of the Party list should go to MANA. The benefit for the Internet Party in this Alliance is that every vote is now no longer wasted and the pulling of the pin if they don’t gain 5% is defused.

The Internet Party and their unique i-phone app launch Thursday and Kim is set to do a blitz of Weekend morning current affairs shows with him appearing on The Nation and Q+A.

My guess is that a decision to progress the dialogue of an Alliance will occur next week after the weekend media and launch of the Party.

TDB Recommends

Interesting times.


    • Sup Gasman? Figured you’d be back once the Judith Collins scandal died down a bit…

      I heard the libertarians all believe that KDC is a plant sent deliberately to NZ by the NWO globalists in order to gift the government with a situation which ‘required’ the tightening of spy laws. I’m speaking of course of the zerohedge libertarians, not the Kiwiblog libertarians though – they’ll vote ACT as they always do, because they only became Randroids to get tax cuts.

      Besides, DPF believes a one world government would be great for global governance, so most trueschool libertarians think he’s one of ‘them’ as well. I guess just for once I agree with them on something!

      • Do you have a point?

        BTW I never stopped posting here and have stated the Collins should resign so I’m not sure why you think that issue should concern me.

        • Yeah, you asked how that ‘mishmash’ of policy would attract right wing voters, and I was pointing out that it no longer matters. The wing of the libertarian vote which KDC stood to tap into normally stays home, and will continue to do so. Presumably this is why KDC’s move seems to be pointing leftward – the Randroids don’t trust him.

          Oh, and you were totes absent during the Collins saga – I was even trying in vain to summon you to the threads! To no avail, alas.

          • Ummmm… not I wasn’t. I probably just wasn’t posting on the threads you were posting on. Why would I be avoiding a discussion with you on the Collins sage? I have stated my position on Collins. She should resign. End of. Any questions?

            As for this post, the Internet Party was apparently set up to attract right leaning youth voters. Yet of the common policy positions stated above only one would directly appeal to that sort of demographic, which would be the investment in infrastructure.

            • The absence of the Gasman was conspicuous. But now you have to go ruining it by disowning her.

              As to your second part, yes I think the internet party are running out of options. I think they know that the slice of the vote KDC would supposedly tap into simply isn’t responding, and is now unlikely to. Libertarians, as usual, will simply stay home on election day.

  1. This is NOT a good move for Mana. I am totally with Sue Bradford here and I don’t give a toss what people say about her, I believe she is actually very highly principled.
    It is a shame that people have totally misunderstood the “anti-smacking” law that she will forever be pilloried for, she did not deserve it.

    • I’m with you, absolute madness, this guy is extremely wealthy and has made his dosh through dubious means. Of course those bastards had no right to spy on him but he is all for himself and expanding his significant empire and that is quite the opposite of Mana’s beliefs.

      • My beef is that KDC came into the country using the worst possible reason for allowing him in, which is buying his way in. I reckon this whole buy yourself residency/citizenship schtick should be kicked to the kerb. I hate it as a way to qualify to get into NZ. Dollars to doughnuts if another person with exactly the same history as his, minus the money tried to get in, he would be laughed all the way back to where he came from.
        I have actually gained a lot of respect for Hone Harawira over the last few years, he will do himself no favours with this move.

    • Absolutely agree with you Raegun about Sue Bradford and The Crimes (Substituted Section 59) Amendment Act 2007. The so called “anti smacking” is the unfortunate and misleading turn of phrase concocted by the media that does nothing but belittle the objectives of this important bill and stir up trouble, which obviously was the media’s intention.

  2. As a far Northerner until recently (but going back) I still read the Northland Age (tory rage) which Hone regards as his local newsletter despite the tory editor Peter Jackson. So here is todays;
    “Harawira — I’m not the MP signing with Dotcom

    Te Tai Tokerau MP and Mana Party leader Hone Harawira has rejected any suggestion that he might be about to join forces with Kim Dotcom following a hitherto undeclared meeting with the internet mogul earlier this year.
    ‘‘ We clearly have common interests, but for the record, I didn’t ask him to fund Mana, and he didn’t offer to either. I didn’t ask him to join Mana, and he didn’t ask me to join his party,’’ Mr Harawira said.
    ‘‘ I haven’t spoken publicly about the meeting because I haven’t yet spoken with the Mana exec about it. That’s set for later this week.’’
    Mr Harawira spoke after Mr Dotcom claimed that he had signed up one sitting MP to join his new Internet Party before the election and was talking to three more. He declined to identify the MP, until the Internet Party was registered and has chosen all its candidates, around mid-year, but was reported as saying he was in talks with Mr Harawira about uniting their parties under one umbrella, enabling the Internet Party to enter Parliament on the coat-tails of the Te Tai Tokerau electorate MP.
    The two leaders and their party bosses, Vikram Kumar and Gerard Hehir, reportedly met at a house on Auckland’s North Shore on February 28. A Sunday paper claimed that the Mana Party executive was about to consider a merger proposal, Mana offering one or two electorates, the Internet Party contributing a more broadlybased party vote and $1 millionplus in campaign funding.
    Mana Party was one of several parties in talks about an alliance, Mr Dotcom said, along with a number of MPs who had won electorates and were expected to do so again.
    The Internet Party planned to launch membership phone and web apps this week, and hoped to have the 500 members required to register the party within a day. The goal was for the Internet Party to ‘‘pick’’ the next government.”

    • Well, if that is correct, it all sounds as either the MSM are running amok again with spreading rumors and lies, or that Dotcom is over-confident, or a bit deluded, about his prospects of working with certain politicians or parties.

      It also appears that Hone Harawira may have got the message, that Mana working closely with Dotcom and the Internet Party may not be such a great idea after all, hence he may be pulling back from earlier considerations.

      I suppose we have to wait and see what will eventuate in the coming one to two weeks.

      • um..! mark..

        ..this is a very real possibility..

        ..and will be seriously negotiated as such..

        ..and i don’t often recommend john armstrong..

        ..but this morn he did a very tidy summary of the benefits for both parties from such a deal..

        ..and/but whether or not this will fly..will depend on the internet party policies..

        ..if dotcom comes out with a far-right/libertarian wet-dream package of policies..’ll be dead in the water..

        ..but how about a u.b.i..?

        ..and legalisation/regulation/taxation of pot..? just two possible policies that wd kick-arse..?

        ..and draw large support..?

        ..especially from younger/disconnected non-voters..

        ..and strong anti-spooking/surveillance policies..?

        ..I see those three sitting comfortably alongside mana core-policies..

        ..phillip ure..

        • Well, a “backdoor sharemarket listing”, that sounds really “revolutionary” and “socialist” to me:

          Try and put aside that bit of “smear” in the story about one shareholder having to face legal questions in Australia, and look at the type of “deal”, investments, the shareholders behind it, and how they have set themselves up.

          If Mana really want to go into alliance with a shrewd operator not just in the internet file sharing and download service business, but also (through his wife and mates) involved in complex financial dealings, with some likely to also have offshore, tax-haven based “investment reserves”, they are really needing to rethink what kind of banners and messages they want to raise in the election campaign.

  3. Having the same enemy is mostly not sufficient reason and “bonding power” to represent a movement with common enough goals. We have seen this happen in history again and again, and one example is the fight against the axis powers in WW2, where Soviet Union soldiers and western allies fought together to beat the Germans and Japanese, after they succeeded, we had decades of cold war and competition between east and west.

    As for the suggested objectives listed above as “bottom line” policy goals, I have so far not been given any impression that Dotcom has much concern about feeding young kids in low decile schools, about building social housing and what else Mana may traditionally have stood for. Also has Dotcom not said anything that I know of, that he is interested in restoring a strong, robust, good quality, informative public broadcasting system in New Zealand (with or without online options).

    I went to a few protest events where Mana members and speakers were present and where Dotcom also spoke. Dotcom’s ultimate goal is to fight for “internet freedom”, as he interprets it, and he is keen on protecting privacy, fighting surveillance and the US agencies and powers that are basically after him. He has NEVER said a word on social issues in New Zealand, he has not been seen at any other events, pickets or protests, that were held to raise concerns about poverty, child abuse, about beneficiary rights and so forth. He has not been heard on the minimum wage, and he has only shared his mansion for certain events, which can be viewed as some form of “self promotion” of himself, his case, his business and legal interests.

    He has seen politicians from all kinds of quarters, and seems keen to get some on board, just to make it easier to get a representation in Parliament (by using their influence or own presence there in politics). So far most politicians that met with him were reserved and did not want to disclose too much about meetings they had. It appears that none of them are too interested to work closely with Dotcom.

    We know the media have been like a hive of bees around the queen, but some MSM journos have also been very critical of him. Dotcom uses the media as he can, but it seems, there are great risks he faces doing so. Recent concerns were about Dotcom on one hand financing a political party launch, and on the other not being able to pay some creditors.

    In my honest opinion, I must share the concerns that Sue Bradford has already stated yesterday. This common “alliance” seems like a huge risk to take, and in my view it will spell the end of Mana, who have only had very moderate success so far, despite huge efforts.

    Money alone may help to get a campaign off the ground, but with the risks and questions that exist, I see it all ending up as a huge fizzer, whether they make it into Parliament or not, and soon the alliance will break up, and it will eventually end in Internet Party and Mana self destroying.

    The simple fact that Hone seems to consider this alliance has led me to give up hope for Mana, and to now only view the Greens as realistic, potential voice for many at the bottom to get a voice in Parliament.

    I am not enthused and encouraged by this discussion about a “confidence and supply” alliance between Dotcom’s party and Mana.

  4. I recon the big boy is going to pick up a few votes, especialy from the so called political iliterate youth.

    Dotcoms,electrol platform will obviously be based on technology,and his campaign for most will be fought on line, and high tech it will be, with the obvious advantage of the technology at his personal disposal and that will be directed at our youth vote.

    Could the supposed his camp be the isolated and political novice Brendan Horran.

    • ..@ finbar..

      ..what cd moran bring to the table..?

      ..(aside from (slight) name-recognition..) an estranged list-member of a minor party..

      ..he is headed for the exit in sept.. it’s not him..

      phillip ure..

    • Now yes, Brendan Horan is one who has been strangely silent on the speculations, unlike some others, and he would be one seeing the lack of prospects he would have as a lone, independent candidate for election. It makes sense that he signs up, and he is also rather “flexible” with topics or issues he tends to deal with.

      Brendan and Mana together, with the Internet Party? It is getting more interesting as well as bizarre by the hour.

    • There is also no such thing as “Free”. What they really are stating is that the Government will pay the Internet providers a whopping big slice of taxpayers money so people can surf the web at Marae’s etc. I know I’d prefer my taxpayer money to be spent on something else like Education or Health.

  5. Ah … help me out here . I’m not that bright .

    Large German man is here . He has a suspended prison sentence for swindling or was that embezzlement back home in Zer Fazerlands, amongst other charges I might add ?

    He’s made millions pirating the creative energy of others ?

    He gave two donations to John Banks of ACT infamy to/so as to facilitate / deliberately avoiding our parliamentary laws AFTER schmoozing the little fucker with a helicopter ride and a piss up ?

    His drowned cabbage face is everywhere now promising Big Times ?

    Now ! Now , he’s sidling up to Hone Hariwira ?

    I have one more question but first a story .

    I had a weird dream the other night . No , seriously . It was a goodun .
    I was asleep , thinking I was awake hearing noises . You know , doors opening , feet padding , sheets being carefully pulled away , then a warm body .
    I was dreaming I was awake yet half asleep when really I was out-to-it having a full-on dream . My female , front-bottom special cuddles , bipedal , human companion crept into my bed for snuggling and softly spoken words of perfume scented affection . When really , she was 442 kilometers away . I rolled over , surprised and delighted ! I asked ” What are you doing here ! My God , it’s great to see you . Oh my God ! What a surprise ? She said she’d left town at 5.00 pm and drove six hours to surprise me . I was surprised alright . I surprised myself by thinking IN MY DREAM that I must be dreaming so I woke myself up and as I laboured with that , my girl kept asking ” Where are you going ? Why are you leaving ? ”
    I woke up into exactly the same situation . Same bed , same linen , same ‘ feeling ‘ but no girl . Just a cold space that I try to avoid as I wriggle . It was beyond bizarre . It felt more like an hallucination .

    My question is this . Is this another fucking nightmare I’m having ?

    Cunliffes fizzled like a damp match . judith collins has gotten away with a lie and a swindle . Hariwira is being conned as are we all . Because don’t forget that tried and true psychological mechanism of being given fancy baubles to only be controlled by the threat of having them removed . That’s the double wammy of having corporates running the show after all .
    Dotcon is going to give us another , free cable . Aw bless . At what cost does Free come at these days ?
    Paranoid ? Suspicious ? You fucking betcha ! Who can blame me after all that’s happened to us over the last 30 + years .

  6. hello martyn..

    ..wd u b keen on standing on the internet party list..?

    ..i wd b 4 that happening.. it wd discount claims of any far-right conspiracy..

    ..phillip ure..

  7. A lot of uninformed people will quickly dismiss Kim Dotcom. That is a mistake. He will get votes and a decent amount, Hone is smart enough to at least consider joining forces and using MMP like the nats do. Politics is about risks, Mana would have to weigh that up, the risk of losing members or risk not getting more numbers in government. I won’t say blindly that I would vote for the internet party, but if he has policy surrounding privacy and internet freedom… I’ll jump straight on that wagon, and so should you! internet freedoms and ISP censorship are one of the biggest privacy concerns we should all have in this day and age. They way you use internet now could be stripped away with ease. It’s already happening in much of the western world.

  8. Kim knows how to make money and lots of it, he is a die hard capitalist. A likeable one as such, a fighter when cornered, holds some honorable values. A people’s capitalist, the Robin Hood of the internet, fighting to give us back our online freedom … and at the same time retaining his freedom to do what he likes on the net and make more money. That is the element of self interest. Would we accept this if such a deal would happen with … lets say with ACT?

    The motion that he could work with Mana without Mana losing it’s mana is is naive.

  9. The SIS refuse to confirm or deny whether they retain a file on me so it’s likely I too share being spied on by the state with Kim Dot capitalist.

    Sufficient common grounds to build a principled political alliance?

    Listen to Sue Bradford you silly buggers.

  10. At this stage I’m picking an alliance would help rather than hinder getting National out. The Greens could lose a few votes and maybe a potential MP, and Labour even fewer. But it will pull in some new voters and turn otherwise wasted Mana and Internet Party votes into MPs. It would gain more MPs for the left rather than fewer. And there would be less need for NZ First to be part of a Labour/Green government. Mana will survive even if the Alliance doesn’t survive long term, just like the Greens did.

  11. Oh FFS I hope TDB isn’t about to give more space to KDC and his idiotic dreams of grandeur.

    It’s a bloody internet party… without a website! It has a domain name with a placeholder page, which doesn’t even come up on the first page of google search results!!


    KDC wants you to use a slick App to give him money and let him move into NZ politics (albeit in the background, but don’t kid ourselves, it’s his party) and he hasn’t even thought out POLICIES!

    I can’t believe anyone would actually vote for that. If you want a protest vote there’s plenty of smaller parties, with policies, that have been around for a long time.

    Please. Stop taking KDC seriously. Just stop.

  12. Well I’m for Kim Dotcom. Though his aspirations might have been moderately right/libertarian he’s had a bit of an awakening at the hands of the scum sucking lowlifes that constitute the present government. While Key and Joyce are in play, the NZ political divide is no longer left and right, but honest and dishonest.

    That’s not to say you should let him supplant the important work that Mana has been doing – but he has skin in the game and has entered NZ politics for better reasons than some. More, he has some talent, and recognizes that he must offer some value both to voters and political allies.

    Let’s not have a go at his character just yet. If he wants a bit of attention, there are worse crimes – and prior to the FBI sanctioned hit on him he was seeking it through generosity: giving parties and barbeques, not by stitching up sneaky deals with the likes of the NSA or the Exclusive Brethren.

    Best of all, he’s a bit of a futurist, and that combination of tech literacy and vision is rare enough, especially in parliament.

    It’s true that the cash based immigration system is incredibly dodgy – we’ve had more than our share of Russian Mafia and other undesirables coming in on that ticket. In this sense we got lucky with Kim Dotcom – he has not been predatory on NZ – unlike the scurrilous and secretive property tycoons that make up most of the ‘investor’ category.

    He may get a seat or two, and if so I’m a whole lot happier with his influence than with Prebble’s, Craig’s, or Flavell’s.

  13. It’s a shame we don’t talk about Mana’s policies as much as we talk about the mainstream media’s Mana fantasies.

    For those of you interested in reality, here’s Mana’s education policy from the last election…maybe we should talk about that?
    It shits all over Labour’s neoliberal educational model

  14. I’m a recently new member of the MANA Movement. I have major respect for Hone and the MANA leadership, but I’m very sceptical of this potential merger. I see the possibility that the Alliance might have a greater go at the 5% threshold as well as extending the MANA influence to people that might not be compelled to vote for them at this recent time. Obviously, the go at the 5% depends on MANA’s 2-3 predicted seats. The thing is though, in making this Alliance, MANA might just end up jeopardising the 2-3 seats it is aiming for. Labour is hot on the heels of Hone in TTT; and Annette Sykes has the potential to knock out the Maori Party in Waiariki, but that might also be jeopardised by this merger. I trust the MANA leadership, but I’m really, really, really crossing my fingers that this doesn’t backfire.

    Again, this might just be the best “Plan B” that MANA has, because it just seems like the myth of a united Labour-Greens-MANA korero has been side lined by Labour’s “go-it-alone” attitude.

  15. My main concern with this party is that there is no ideological coherency. Mana may have been against the GSCB bills, but neither are front and centre of party identity. The socialism and indigenous politics of Mana, so far unsuccessful in achieving a list seat, may gain some votes from the alliance but at the expense of ideological coherence. Both parties appeal to different constituencies and agendas. Both would also be dominated by two core personalities – hardly the stuff of a sustainable political movement – and at the expense of Sue Bradford, who is the best politician involved in Mana. Essentially, it would become another version of the Alliance Party. If Mana wants to advance it’s agenda, it would be far more principled and smart to become an equal partnership, with second list spot going to someone credible on the left – either Bradford or Minto.

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