The issue with the Labour Green announcement was the lack of sizzle, or for that matter sausage. The line being floated that it won’t ultimately work because NZers some how can’t understand it however is a bit silly and desperate.
If NZers can be enthralled with the Game of Thrones and understand the machinations of the political forces of Westeros then they’ll comprehend Labour and Greens working together.
If Labour and the Greens can actually stand aside in certain electorates and pick up a few more party votes they do have a shot, unfortunately this latest clumsy fumble of a gesture lines up with other recent clumsy fumbles…
- Andrew Little’s choice of over crowded state house turned out to be the wrong state house.
- James Shaw’s clumsy fumble on Radio NZ pledging support for National after coming out for Labour.
- Labour’s hype over free education that wasn’t really free.
- James Shaw’s stuck in the headlights media performances.
- Labour’s swing and a miss over donations and hotels.
- Greens costly support of Red Peak that went no where.
- Labour’s confused position on TPPA with Phil Goff being allowed to vote for it.
- Greens quickly forgotten state of the nation wonk unit that would wonk on the political promises of Political Parties. Wonk. Wonk. Wonk.
…so lot’s of clumsy slips that don’t imbue trust.
They should have a list of electorates they will work together in and they should have at least a 3 policy platform to fight on.
By not having either of these, Labour and the Greens look indecisive and lacking in ideas.
A united Left terrifies the Right and its media mouthpieces, hence the roar from the pundits, but a lack of imagination in the execution of this civil union hasn’t helped the Labour Green case.
three policy platform
housing
jobs/employment
health
these are areas the Gnats are failing in terribly but there are many others I think the no frills approach is sometimes better but they need to get to work and devise their policies and watch out for the gnats who might steal them cause they have ran out of ideas
3 policy platform
housing
health
employment/jobs
many NZers still don’t know how MMP works
100% M Gray. NatZ won on knowing this.
“A united Left terrifies the Right and its media mouthpieces, hence the roar from the pundits, but a lack of imagination in the execution of this civil union hasn’t helped the Labour Green case.”
Yes correct Martyn,
We see a lot of merit in all collective Opposition forces now setting up a meeting like a Forum of “the coalition of the willing” to eject the toxic Natz and a plan marshalling their resources and endeavours to get a equally astute PR to set them up for the election victory next year.
They lack the prowess of Crosby Textor.
3 policy platform =housing , employment/jobs, health
Perhaps, Bomber, one day you will “get” that Labour is not remotely left-wing.
That’s not true Castro.
Probably is considering a backdrop of what the ultra right now consider left to be and that can be anyone who wants to have government represent the people rather than corporations so current labour is trying to walk the middle ground at this point but if they get the treasury benches who knows?
Well, it’s left in most areas, excepting economic fundamentals.
imo, that’s ultimately why its membership is so low, it took a long time, approx 25yrs, for that message to sink in, but sink in it finally did.
Disagree particularly in comparison with National. Re membership, there are a lot of factors involved there, it will improve, party memberships fluctuate with all political parties and Labour doesn’t have the big corporate drivers like National do.
100% true. Who brought in neoliberalism in the form of Rogernomics? Why did the Clark government go open slather on transnational capital immigration and not introduce a capital gains tax, AND sign a Free Slave Agreement with the largest dictatorship on the planet?
No its not 100% true. Why don’t you ask National those questions. Roger Douglas is long gone. That’s over 30 years ago, I cannot blame the current Labour party for what a Labour government did decades ago, just like I cannot blame John key for Muldoon and every other bad National government.
100% true, Words. Introduced neoliberalism through Rogernomics. Introduced large-scale importation of transnational capital and NO capital gains tax in Clark years.. AND signed a Free Slave Agreement with the world’s largest dictatorship. The only way the left will get in in this non-country is by the barrel of a gun, not through words. I hope I live to see the day, but don’t hold your breath…
…and did not roll back the Employment Contacts Act or did anything much to remove legislation that tilted against collective bargaining/organisation.
Show me a perfect political party and government… there is no such thing. Who knew a John key government would launch a war against Kiwis Richard? The previous Labour did a hell of a lot better than this National government, people were far better off then than what they are now.
“… signed a Free Slave Agreement with the world’s largest dictatorship. The only way the left will get in in this non-country is by the barrel of a gun, not through words. I hope I live to see the day, but don’t hold your breath…”
You take the name of a guy who overthrew one communist dictator only to then himself become one. You criticise China as “the world’s largest dictatorship” then follow up by quoting Mao, their communist dictator. You imply that you hope to live to see the day where others die.
You should submit your contributions to a political science professor. I’m sure you could get at least a D.
Indeed. And you are trying to deny the fact that the PRC is the largest dictatorship in the world in the entire history of the planet? You deserve an F for that, but would probably get an A for toeing the party line, eh. Labour is a right wing party and is so similar to National that it can’t get any traction.
Where did I say I denied it? Read it again. I said you criticised it, but I never said you did so wrongly. You seem to have missed my point entirely.
I’ll assume you’re just not very good at reading, since you’re not very good at writing.
“AND signed a Free Slave Agreement with the world’s largest dictatorship.”
The use of the word “slave” instead of “trade” implies that you hold a negative view towards the PRC.
So, since you imply a negative attitude towards the PRC, then why do you paraphrase their most notorious leader Mao Zedung’s “Change must come through the barrel of a gun”? If they are the big bad communists, why are you quoting their poster boy?
Now to your username. You call yourself Castro. Well, Castro started out as a guy who said, “Hey, this Battista guy is a bad dude, we need to get rid of him.” And so he did, and that was great, until of course, Castro ended up becoming the thing he first sought to eradicate. Then he was just a communist dictator, much like you criticise the PRC for being, yet you quote their guy Mao, and appellate yourself after the Cuban hypocrite…
So, after all of those completely contradictory outbursts on your part, you think it’s me who has failed to understand the absurdity of your post?
Think again.
Like I said, I do NOT at any point deny that the PRC is a communist dictatorship. That was never in my words. It was only a result of your inability to read my comment correctly. You assumed I said it, but it was never so. I merely pointed out the absurd adjunct between your nom-de-plume and your criticism of the PRC. If you are going to rail against communist dictatorships in one breath, you’d fare well not to go naming yourself after them and quoting them in the next breath.
TL/DR – You’re a bit of a dickhead.
No its not 100% true. Why don’t you ask National those questions. Roger Douglas is long gone. That’s over 30 years ago, I cannot blame the current Labour party for what a Labour government did decades ago, just like I cannot blame John key for Muldoon and every other bad National government.
Post Douglas Labour have become the status quo party.
It’s true that they now don’t introduce anything much in the way of furthering the neo liberal agenda.
But the important point is that they don’t work to reverse neoliberalism either.
So we are in the position that everytime the Nats and Act get into office and institute further ‘market’ reforms no one can now rely on Labour to reverse them. For example, Labour refuse to commit to renationalising the swindled state assets.
Hence the disillusionment, the missing million voters etc. These missing million are not stupid, they can see that they have no one working for them.
There are a lot of reasons people don’t vote Richard, it’s not solely down to just “Labour” that old rw meme doesn’t wash, and you don’t know the future and cannot say it will never change from what it is now. Things do change, and you cannot say that a future Labour coalition government under Andrew Little will not take steps to begin the change away from neoliberalism that’s dominated not only NZ but the world since the 1970s. It’s not going to happen in one big whoop either, its going to be a long process that will take time.
As a personal anecdote, I gave up on Labour after Clark stood down.
I would have anyway, as by then I had given up waiting for a meaning shift against neoliberalism to come from Labour or any of the parties on offer, save perhaps, the Greens.
It was never going to happen under Clark.
Never.
Since then, we have had no indication from Labour that it ever will happen.
Amongst other reasons, Labour are too terrified of being painted anti-business/anti-growth by the biased, and owned, MSM. They are too terrified that their coffers might run dry should whatever corporate donations they still command cease. Their ranks are still inhabited by Rogergnomes.
I stuck with them for a far longer time than many who saw the truth earlier.
Betrayal of trust is perhaps the hardest of all affronts to heal.
Asking for the missing million to just wait and trust is insulting.
Until they unashamedly rediscover their roots and show some courage they’re stuffed.
Whose asking the missing millions to wait? as posted previously, which you have ignored, there are a lot reasons why people don’t vote, it’s not just because it’s “Labour.”
MSM, who have always been in support of the right wing in NZ politics are vicious in their attack against Labour, no one could ever accuse the msm of being balanced and unbiased. The 2014 election campaign and the relentless onslaught against David Cunliffe was the worst I have ever seen, credit to the inner strength of the man that he is still standing. I can see why Labour, out of all the parties has to tread carefully, amazed that you can’t see it, and like I have already said, you don’t have a crystal ball and cannot tell the future, don’t judge what you don’t know. Assumptions can also be wrong too. Change takes time. If you want to get rid of National then no matter how you feel, it cannot be done without Labour, that’s the simple fact. It’s MMP.
Whose asking the missing millions to wait?
“…change takes time…”
“,…It’s not going to happen in one big whoop either, its going to be a long process that will take time…”
The thing is Words, we can agree 100% on the damage NAct are doing to this nation.
You believe Labour are the way back but the brutal facts indicate that Labour’s traditional support base don’t believe that is the case any longer. They see Labour as an establishment party too timid to move left.
I and others are merely telling you why. Yes there are compounding reasons,( I haven’t ignored them at all) but fundamentally left leaning voters do not see Labour as making any move to rolling back the neoliberal juggernaut.
As long as Labour refuse to confront the inconvenient truth about why left leaning people have abandoned them they’re stuffed as a party of the left.
Douglas is not long gone… he has not been executed for treason yet. Neither has Richardson or the rest of them.
The co founder of Act Roger Douglas is long gone, he aint coming back. Interestingly, Douglas was the architect of the superannuation scheme under the Kirk Labour government, that Muldoon binned, that would have made NZ a most wealthy and most envied country in the world today if Muldoon hadn’t of thrown away this country’s future, like all National governments do. I don’t know why Douglas became a traitor, but he’s gone. But lets deal with the present. The past cannot be changed, but our present course can be.
John key and his partners in crime should be charged with treason. We don’t have the death penalty in this country. maybe we can exile these traitors on a deserted island and let them fight it out amongst themselves, and just for good measure have Douglas et al charged with historical crimes against this country and its people , and throw them on the deserted island too. I am furious that Jenny Shipley is one of John key’s string pullers and has her snout still very much in the trough. Another reason to get rid of John key, get rid of all the old nat hangers on.
I’ve been suggesting a 3 party summit arrangement since last election , cross sharing strategies and tactics, – others have as well. I think the non declaring position of NZ First is a frustration to many.
But one thing is to be noticed, and that is the ‘big king hits’ on National are not the ticket,… its the mundane things. And that came with the housing crisis and even budget allocation. Bread and butter things.
Unemployment, health , education and welfare.
The classic standard fare. But its standard fare for a reason. It affects everyone, cannot be called tribal politics if the systems are obviously failing , and not only hits at the heart of the matter,- it hits the wallet as well.
The problem is for Lab/ Greens is timing. They can announce policy, but that could be preempted by National if they disclose details too soon.
By all means work out electorates beforehand to avoid cross purposes, its probably safe to choose 3-4 platforms now though. A balance needs to be struck between giving enough detail and too much detail that can be analysed by National and the MSM on those platforms, the MSM needlessly criticizing and National stealing ideas.
Then logic can be better served with NZ First coming to the agreement – either as Curwen Rowlinson says with an ‘All in’ coalition or as a confidence/supply position…
In fact , without saying too much , that triad situation would hit on all the high notes that are currently afflicting this country – if they played in unison emphasizing each individual party’s strengths of policy… it would be a pretty impregnable position . They would have National by the short and curly’s- and quite easily and early on in the piece.
Think that is a bit hard. Labour are getting there and this is a good move. The MSM and Trolls are all against the alliance so must be a good move.
Also agree with not releasing policy as otherwise it would all be about the policy and not the cooperation. The less information the better this early.
I also think it is a great opportunity for Labour to approach NZ First to talk about how to manage immigration policy in the future and shared interests so they are all on the same page.
Well said. Andrew Little did say he was in discussion with all of the opposition parties. Winston may not publicly admit it, but they are talking
The film of Andrew Little and Robertson having a beer while discussing the budget was pretty gauche too. They have to start being themselves.
Little couldn’t sort his Skype out.
Sort your Skype out Bai
In Game of Thrones, Green is the colour of Highgarden and Red is the colour of Lannister. So, in those house words the coalition must say Grow Steady Like the Rose and Hear Me Roar.
Besides, unlike the Nats a Labour government pays it’s debts!
Remember, the Greens have been trying to get an agreement out of Labour for at least four years. They just couldn’t get more than what they got here. Still, this is a start. The worry now is that it won’t go anywhere.
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