While Rob Salmond continues to bash activists for having ideas, the Labour Party remains on cruise control terrified they might spook the sleepy hobbits of muddle Nu Zilind. I think there is little risk of that, with the Greens tip toeing around trying to be as quiet as field mice (the Shaw inspired U-turn on their vote in favour of liquor licences for the RWC booze up shows how fractured they have become over his shock win), no one is spooking the sleepy hobbits of muddle Nu Zilind these days.
The reason the middle vote Key is because he has created an illusion of wealth for them via property speculation. They won’t recover their empathy, compassion or sense of egalitarianism until that bubble pops, so trying to woo them in the manner Rob wants simply risks alienating supporters into joining the missing million, and once a voter becomes disconnected, they rarely return.
We have a situation in NZ where the electorate are playing chicken with the Left. The middle refuse to accept that Key is the worst abuser of political power we’ve ever seen and pretend that he is moderate because the hard edge of right wing privatisation doesn’t impact them. The politically engaged progressive are furious at what Key has been able to get away with and that fury oozes out in social media in a way that makes the soft middle wince and back away in fright. The middle huddle to Mike Hosking and Paul Henry and Duncan Garner for the soothing words that there is no depression in NZ.
As long as middle class property values keep increasing, the 305 000 children in poverty, students in debt, Gen X and Y locked out of home ownership, private prisons, charter schools, freezing cold state houses and increasing inequality are somebody else’s problem and Mike, Paul and Duncs are there to tell them that’s true and that while Key may have said one thing on Monday, it doesn’t matter come Friday.
The economic crunch in America and Britain is more extreme than here and that’s why the Left are having a resurgence with candidates not afraid to actually stand proudly for Left wing ideas, here are Bernie’s 11. Could we see a Labour Leader stand for these without being measly mouthed and apologetic to the Business Roundtable while saying it?
i had to ponder long and hard over this… ok 30 seconds are up … would little a product of a right wing family stoop to being a socialist.. pigs might fly sooner
I guess you are referring to Andrew Little who, regardless of his family background, has spent most of his working life in the trade union movement fighting to achieve steps 3, 4, 5, 6 and by proxy 7, 9, 10 and 11. Would he call himself a socialist, probably not, but I think the label is irrelevant.
Andrew Little would probably not claim to be a socialist but I think that is just an irrelevant label anyway in his case. As a unionist he has spent his working life trying to achieve progress for working men and women in most of those 11 steps.
Go Bernie Sanders, a politician after my own heart. A socialist to the core.
Where is NZ’s Bernie Sanders?
The present line up in Labour is woefully lacking in common sense policies, such as those put forward by Bernie. While at the same time, the present government is destroying the very fabric of what was once a fair, decent, egalitarian great nation!
Winston Peters is the only politician that says it like it is which is why the media keep bringing up his age to get him out. Winston comes up with some great ideas and most agree. Why don’t they vote for him? They’re starting. Me included
1000% JackP
Winston is the most experienced politician to boot Key out as well
Because nobody trusts him ever since he held the country to ransom and went with National.
>> Winston Peters is the only politician that says it like it is <<
Since Labour helped get rid of Hone. That said, I heard an interview with Kelvin Davis where he clearly stated that there are three things that should never be privatised; police, courts, and prisons. So he's a minarchist not an anarcho-capitalist. Good to know…
Bernie Sanders is doing a great job but I worry about his ability to stay physically fit on such a long campaign trail. Without wanting to sound ageist, it’s sad that the American left is expecting a 74 year old to do the heavy lifting for the entire progressive movement.
The whole thing about Bernie is he is up front! He has said straight out that if got to be President he could not change the system. He needs everyone to be involved only that way could he accomplish something.
He says it needs to be a ground swell movement!
But also to accomplish a ground swell movement you need far sighted Leaders.
The closest we come in this country at the moment is Winston and he is in his 70’s!
The Labour Party is Dead!
No surprises that he is older – Corbyn not quite so old but in his 60’s. It’s because they both have adult memories of the world before about 1980. And so they know TINA is a lie. Their minds are not colonised by neo-liberalism and that is true for hardly anyone under about 55. But wonderful to see how much so many young people love both of them
let’s just do it…. Dammit!
I am sure that as an ex trade union leader Andrew Little would happily claim that Labour already endorses most of those policies, some of them he has spent most of his life fighting for. Numbers 1 and 2 seem to be at odds with each other. Do we really need to be building more roads, bridges (the classic Nat bribe) and airports. How about public transport, affordable housing, health centres, neighbourhood development projects, adult education centres, community child care facilities and increased apprenticeship training for starters.
I doubt also that number 8 is on anyones list. Alternatives to the big 4 already exist and why more New Zealanders don’t support local banks is beyond me.
Sleepy – you make a good point: The first two points are in direct conflict with each other. The Left don’t know if they’re red or green.
Demolishing the rest of this laundry list:
3. It is already easy to join a union: Anyone can! Maybe they should lower fees, because some seem unable to account for where all the money has gone….
4. Raise the minimum wage: In order to reduce employment opportunities for the unskilled and youth. You really want that?
5. Equal gender pay: This is already the law (sigh!)
6. Reform trade policies to retain jobs: Have you not considered that our trade partners might do likewise?
7. College is affordable and highly subsidised: as thousands of young Kiwis demonstrate every year by enrolling.
8. Break up big banks: So as to undermine the security of our savings and to increase banking costs? A key reason we survived 2008 so well was sound Australian owned banks. Careful what you wish for!
9. Health care already is available to all in NZ. Next you’ll be demanding 20 days annual leave.
10. Expand welfare: You’ll need to with these economic policies!
11. Close tax loopholes: Best of luck with that. Money is mobile. Look up the ‘Laffer Curve’, try and understand it and then get back to me.
“4. Raise the minimum wage: In order to reduce employment opportunities for the unskilled and youth. You really want that?”
Just to take one of the points you’ve raised, there is no evidence that raising the minimum wage reduces employment. The flaw in your argument, parroted from other right wing sources, is that it only takes into account one side of the equation: paying the worker. The other side of the same equation is that the money is spent on consumer goods, housing, services, etc, and boosts economic activity.
It is the same rationale used by the Nats to cut taxes in 2009 and 2010 – boosting economic activity by increasing income. (Though unfortunately the ’09 and ’10 tax cuts were directed at high income earners rather than low-paid workers.)
Hey Frank
Ask the Greeks how their high minimum wage, expanded welfare and unionism worked out for them….
One of the nice things about not being a socialist is that I’ve got all the evidence on my side! 🙂
Andrew – I could “Askthe Greeks how their high minimum wage, expanded welfare and unionism worked out for them”.
Sure.
In the meantime, you could ask Wall Street bankers and financiers how the Global Financial Crisis went for them. Especially after the billions paid to bail them out, and the thousands/millions who lost their jobs and homes.
Pay special attention to Goldman Sachs, which mis-represented the Greek economy to the Eurozone.
Mind you, I’m thinking that blaming Greece’s problems on a “high minimum wage, expanded welfare and unionism” works for folk like you who haven’t really looked in-depth into the problem… but, hey, who am I to prick your fantasy-bubble?
<a href="http://www.tikkun.org/nextgen/why-the-right-keeps-winning-and-the-left-keeps-losing"
Martyn, I’ve often thought that your attitude to “Middle New Zealand” is inaccurate and unhelpful. Some of the link above obviously doesn’t apply to us, but it gave me a whole new perspective.
Stuffed if I can work out how to post links properly. The system seems to be a bit munted.
<br Hello moderator, have tried to post twice but no luck whats up
I hope some else follows Bernies amazing race. Hes my idol hes speaking sense.
This was the best article Ive read articuating how bad John Key is and why.
I actually don’t know what Labour Policies are, apart from Cunliffe apologising for being a man, and a lesbian/unionism bent.
Labour need to get their acts together and start promoting their policies through the media. All we hear is whinging, we need something positive and constructive.
Kia ora Jack
I agree with this:
“Labour need to get their acts together and start promoting their policies…”
but disagree with this bit:
“…through the media”
Assuming you mean the corporate-dominated “news” media. This media system exists, and since no public organisations can avoid it, they have to do what they can to use it, rather than be used by it.
But pro-democracy political parties need to develop ways of promoting their policies directly to the people, and that includes both “new media” approaches (websites, social media etc), and “old school” approaches like growing the membership, and making sure they understand and can articulate the parties’ policies, holding public meetings, street corner meetings etc. Not just during election year either, when it comes off as too little, too late.
More importantly, I think a lot of people have had enough of policy being dreamed up in backrooms, and delivered to the people like Moses with his stone tablets. People need to actually be involved in envisioning the kind of society we want to live in, and debating what mix of policies could bring that about. You don’t need to market policy to people like boxes of laundry powder if they are already invested in it, because they were part of creating it.
The Greens do this the old school way (local branches sending delegates to policy conferences), and the Internet Party experimented with doing it using Loomio as a policy incubator. There are lots of ways to go about it, but it needs to facilitate thinking about the practical effects of policy on the whole society, rather than people just coming up with a laundry list of policies that suit their ideology (with all due respect to Bernie Sanders and his fans).
When the illusion of wealth has vaporised and there is no food in the cupboard because the supermarkets have closed down
We middle NZers will be alright with our vegy gardens, fruit trees echinacea roots and knowledge of how to be self reliant
going about our daily chores
wishing like hell people like Martyn would stand for PM or some other political position :-0
Is it really as simple as waiting for the big bang or the big burst
before we realise there was no need to worry
because only dogs worry and they get shot … don’t they.
NZ Politicians and people of supposed intelligence/authority are now so scared of saying the right/wrong thing just in case those out spoken loud mouth dolts like hosking, henry and the sad sorry broke orca and his band of miserable whinging friends etc will write lies and nag/get their most *powerful friends* like key little paddy joyce collins etc to drag them in front of the class/nation and pick their bones
with their addresses made public for maximin impact
just like bennett did to the 2 benny girls who dared have a say.
*kanye west* is going to stand for usa pressy in 2020
yikes! he can’t even sing
the world as we know it, is motoring down the deep dark
abyss at warp speed.
Meanwhile who ever is grooming the NZ Bernie
don’t forget to put dirt under his/hers nails
You’ve skilfully got this one right on Martyn.
The bubble is about to burst so we will sit and watch the whole propped up mirage vanish and the sleepy hobbits will hopefully awake.
Bernie is a Vermont oldie and just read the book Vermont folk olre medicine and realise their is more to this man than meets the eye.
70% of the Vermont population are over 65 and live in a harsh winter I have been there and know how to survive.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/D._C._Jarvis
The knives are out for Jeremy Corbyn especially because of his foreign policy ideas. His sympathy is with the oppressed Palestinian people. he does not look the other way.
The knives are out for Jeremy Corbyn, especially because of his foreign policy ideas. His sympathy is with the oppressed Palestinians. He does not look the other way.
Yep lets follow Bernie as he is gaining so much respect in the US among their 99% possibly half our 99% will follow also?
. Sleepy – you make a good point: The first two points are in direct conflict with each other. The Left don’t know if they’re red or green.
Not at all; most on the Left are both Red and Green.
……….It comes with the territory of having multiple bottom lines,. A concept alien to the Right.
Demolishing the rest of this laundry list:
……….You wish.
3. It is already easy to join a union: Anyone can! Maybe they should lower fees, because some seem unable to account for where all the money has gone….
……….a. Not so easy these days after the protections of law and bargaining rights of organised Labour have been abrogated;
……….b. Have you some evidence you would like to share?
4. Raise the minimum wage: In order to reduce employment opportunities for the unskilled and youth. You really want that?
……….See Frank’s point. Paying insufficient to live on is never a business plan. Next you are going to come up with that saw about raising the minimum to $100 an hour. That plays fine on Fox TV, New Zealand is a little more sophisticated. Intelligent use of minimum wage orders is entirely appropriate. That’s why every Western country has one.
5. Equal gender pay: This is already the law (sigh!)
……….Observed in the omission.
6. Reform trade policies to retain jobs: Have you not considered that our trade partners might do likewise?
……….This is New Zealand. We live and die by trade. Here we would say: Reform trade policies to create or retain more value-adding jobs here.
7. College is affordable and highly subsidised: as thousands of young Kiwis demonstrate every year by enrolling.
……….It’s the only game in town. We need everyone to improve their skills (many would run a mile from the debt they would incur) and ideally to do so without the noose of debt round their necks making staying in New Zealand, or coming home an unattractive proposition.
8. Break up big banks: So as to undermine the security of our savings and to increase banking costs? A key reason we survived 2008 so well was sound Australian owned banks. Careful what you wish for!
……….We are halfway to this goal with Kiwibank. Bernie Sanders would love an American Kiwibank. When a full commercial version will be even more attractive if it isn’t killed by the TPPA.
9. Health care already is available to all in NZ. Next you’ll be demanding 20 days annual leave.
……….Once again, the Americans would love our system, underfunded as it is more and more – as the midwives.. And try a little mental health issues. We’ve still go a ways to go.
10. Expand welfare: You’ll need to with these economic policies!
……….Empty sneering, response unnecessary
11. Close tax loopholes: Best of luck with that. Money is mobile. Look up the ‘Laffer Curve’, try and understand it and then get back to me
……….You don’t want to close tax loopholes? Thanks. Not that mobile. The Laffer Curve is a simple postulated assertion. It neither proves nor disproves, and it has nothing to say about fairness or loopholes. Maybe you had better have another go at understanding the difference between analogy and proof.
I hope they end up with Bernie Sanders Vs Chris Christie, because it would basically turn their election into a grand episode of Curb Your Enthusiasm, fulfilling the American narrative of truth becoming so much stranger than fiction that you couldn’t write fiction so engaging if you tried.
Plus, the only person on Curb more likely to come a cropper than Larry is Geoff, so that would mean Sanders would beat Christie.
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