Just what NZ needs – billions more in Chinese property speculation

1. So how long before I have to learn Mandarin in order to properly pay homage to my new overlords?

   • Never – give it 20 years and China will be dog tucker (I can explain why if you like). Besides Chinese businessmen want you to speak to them in English as English is the language of business. It’s insulting to them for you to try and talk to them in Chinese.

     China is a corrupt backward hellhole. It’s Muldoonism writ large where you can’t even sell popsicles without the government demanding a piece of the action. And the government have their corrupt little fingers in everything.

     • I don’t think you can compare Muldoon in any way shape or form to the evolving Chinese political history.

       Particularly with the executions and human rights abuses still going on in modern China ….Muldoon might have been hard but he was not that callous.

       • I’m talking their economy. Muldoon ran an economy that was heavily controlled, regulated, and protected. Just like the chinese economy.

         • Yes true. But ..In my eyes …I saw Muldoon as simply becoming a little too restrictive. Part of social democratic Keynesianism was the regulated economy.

           That is still my preference. And it works extremely well in wealth creation for all if done correctly…ie : Scandinavia etc..

           But not so much that it becomes destructive. I think Muldoon took it a bit far in the end…and it became more a personal thing for him.He was doing things that were detrimental to the NZ dollar.

           And that was because it clashed with his ideals – and a fair dollop of bloody mindedness.

           Perhaps China having been an emerging economy …from the straight jacket of communism ….they are still in that process…the problem is when the changes happen so fast..it destabilizes society.

           Perhaps that’s why it appears so restrictive. Yet economically they have changed in other ways quite radically.

           That said…it is important to draw a distinction between communism and a social democracy typified by a Keynes style economic ideology inasmuch as they are totally different beasts.

     • Ok Kevin I’m game, whats gonna happen to China over the next 20 years?

       • As the population ages the economy won’t be able to cope. Something like one worker will be supporting up to 15 senior chinese. That’s not sustainable. Also as the working class evolves they will demand better conditions and wages putting strain on the economy (this is already beginning to happen).

         China is politically communist but it’s economy is pseudo-capitalist. I say pseudo-capitalist because in a true capitalist economy things are self-correcting meaning the businesses which are uneconomic don’t survive and those that are profitable do. At least in theory and in most cases it’s true. But in China uneconomic businesses are allowed to survive because they’re propped up by the government who’s cronies have a personal stake in the business. In other words classic Muldoonism. Problem is sooner of later the whole thing collapses as uneconomic businesses end up outnumbering profitable ones.

   • If you drive down the Northern Motorway on the North Shore of Auckland there is a huge Bayleys Land for Sale written in large Mandarin writing with English in small print underneath ,so based on that little forerunner i’m picking it won’t be too much longer .
     I hate too say it but unless some drastic measures are taken regarding property buying rules and immigration almost immediately , NZ is stuffed.
     The horse has bolted ,it’s gone down into the valley , up over the first hill and can just be seen heading up over a distant hill, soon to be out of sight!

     • once NZers wake up….Key will be out!…the tide is already turning

       • Dream on Chooky,
         NZers will wake up too late- IF they ever wake up at all.

         “Key will be out?
         Like The Hydra, cut one head off and another will simply grow in it’s place.
         This monster has got it’s tentacles in every western country,

2. We used to protest the USA Buchanan coming into our ports ….well I got news for you all….

   When the food riots start ….there wont be any destroyers sailing into our ports….there will be an aircraft carrier stationed just outside Auckland harbour conducting regular fly overs .

   And the flag on that carrier will be a red one with 5 golden stars on it.

   Want a new flag?

   Done.

3. Well said Martyn ,what does it take to get people to see Key is to out ruin NZ . The country should be out organising a revolution but instead
   they do nothing .Its the same in uk as far as its ruined by Cameron another corporate puppet ,but they get out and protest, in their tens of thousands, the Torys had 28% of the vote out of a country of over 60million,something smells .We cant leave NZ to the polititions, we cant be sure which ones to trust .
   Key said we should learn to speak Mandarin, now we know why!!!!

   • What ?…so we can go around bumping into Chinese ‘ immigrants ‘ and fawningly grinning and saying sorry all the time in broken Mandarin ?

     No thanks.

     I wont be playing that sort of ingratiating game.

     NZ First , please….foreign nationals who don’t even live here second.

     And must we remind these characters…..they are a GUEST in our fine country.

     And if that sounds too bloody harsh for either the right wing or left wing to swallow – I MEAN IT when I say New Zealand First.

     And that goes for any other nationality that gets loans from THEIR govt to displace other country’s populations physically OR economically.

     • Well said WK, I think the plan is that China take over NZ ,the Chinese government is placing their people here for a reason .its like money laundering for that government, they take advantage of the small population ,if people keep coming in the droves Key keeps allowing(and bugger us )they will outnumber us in a very short time.
       China is leaving the US dollar so getting their money converted into NZ dollars,if NZ has any sense they will understand that the US dollar is on the out,and Key is probably planning to buy Chinese yen,he likes having a bob each way.
       Judith Collins and her husband are selling swamp kauri to the Chinese, its not meant to be sold unless made into products to be sold to China,so shes cheating again by polishing a slab of wood and calling it a table,or chiselling a pattern on a slab of wood and calling it a carving, she is still up to her money making tricks again, and John Key is allowing it.
       This is the most rotten and corrupt government NZ has ever had and its getting worse.

       • The fourth Labour government was almost as corrupt, and the Bolger government was almost as rotten, so it is a remarkable achievement for this National government to be both the most rotten and most corrupt government in NZ history. Of course they see themselves as the best and most open government in history and the sleepy hobbits smile and nod dreamily before going back to their own pipedreams.

       • I believe that the Chinese are money-laundering – and that’s not just a figure of speech, nor is it racist. A lot of speculators from all over the world are getting into the NZ housing market – and given how profitable that is, who can blame them – but mostly they are acting as individuals in an unco-ordinated way. I believe that the Chinese speculators are being funded by the Chinese Government.
         China is in a unique position because it has massive balance of payments surpluses in a host of foreign currencies that are difficult for their businesses to dispose of. I read some time ago (I think Ellen Brown was the author) that the Chinese Banks were buying up this foreign currency in exchange for Renminbi, and also are exchanging directly with some countries currencies (Australia is one, I hear) thus bypassing the US dollar.
         Exchanging currencies for their own Renminbi is not in itself wrong, but the accusation of the article was that the Chinese banks were creating the money that they used in these exchanges, effectively getting all this foreign currency at no cost.
         If they cashed up Chinese speculators with NZ dollars before they came here and banked the money in one of the Chinese Banks in Auckland, and if they then went out and bid successfully for a property, the same banks would fund the mortgage in NZ Dollars, which they had created from nothing (that is standard banking practice). I suggest that if this story is true there is a money- laundering racket going on, and no non-Chinese buyers could compete.

   • Any dared outspokenness and criticism of such foreign “investment” will instantly be labeled as being “xenophobic” and “racist”.

     Remember when Labour dared bring into discussion an extra tax or register for foreign real estate buyers? There was NO mention of ANY ethnic group of off-shore buyers, but instantly some “spokespersons” from the Chinese community labeled Labour as being “racist”.

     It is the same like with critcising Israel for killing Palestinian children and with committing human rights breaches or war crimes. Instantly someone will stand up and call such criticism “anti semitic” and “anti Jewish”, which it is mostly not meant to be.

     I wonder how much John Key has already sold this country out, to certain Chinese vested business interests?

     The government does all to minimise whatever happens in human rights breaches and in the way of spying on NZ from there, and goes to great lengths to accommodate their visiting dignitaries every time they come here.

     Key and his government are trying all to appease both the US and China, trying a juggling act that cannot go well for too much longer, and the interests of the ordinary New Zealanders come last, I fear.

4. I wouldn’t hurry to conflate the invasion of Chinese tax-evaders with a state driven takeover – but as Indonesia discovered, non-assimilating elites are problematic and well-ordered nations don’t allow them to reach problematic proportions.

   Unfortunately NZ is presently governed by a group with somewhat less intelligence, talent and dedication than a troupe of baboons. They’re stars when it comes to flinging their own excrement at competitors but they couldn’t run a cake stall much less a country.

   Our patriotic duty is to oust them and our moral duty is to see the traitors punished in accordance with our traditions. That involves hanging drawing and quartering – a messy business, but there is an enviably low rate of reoffending.

   • “somewhat less intelligence, talent and dedication than a troupe of baboons”

     they arent stupid – they know EXACTLY what they are doing. The problem is framing it for public consumption – thats where they come across as stupid

     • Absolutely correct, they know full well, what they are doing, same with the Saudi farm deal, costing hundreds of sheep their lives, all for some “deal” to be made with the Gulf states, which depends on Saudi support.

     • I have heard this argument before.

       In anything other than the very short term their policies are frankly disastrous for New Zealand.

       As Forrest Gump puts it: “Stupid is as stupid does”.

       IQ or ulterior motives do not excuse them.

5. At least the Chinese understand the concept of confiscation of assets. They did it en masse after WWII to foreigners in China, and to their own people.

   So eventually when NZ has the sense to elect a government which will remove the right of foreigners to own property in NZ they’ll not be completely surprised by NZ forcing them to sell their property back to NZ citizens.

   But as you point out Martyn, this is only going to happen if the young and poor in NZ bloody get out and VOTE.

   • For who?

     Mana would be best but NZ First might do something

   • You have not read the investment bit in the China NZ Free Trade agreement, I suspect.

     http://www.chinafta.govt.nz/1-The-agreement/2-Text-of-the-agreement/12-Chapt-11-Investment/index.php

     “Article 138 National Treatment

     Each Party shall accord to investments and activities associated with such investments, with respect to management, conduct, operation, maintenance, use, enjoyment or disposal, by the investors of the other Party treatment no less favourable than that accorded, in like circumstances, to the investments and associated activities by its own investors.”

     Also look up:
     “Article 143 Fair and Equitable Treatment”

     So if other “investors” from NZ, but also from other nations (e.g. Australia, the UK), are allowed to invest in business or even real estate here, then the same right must be granted to Mainland Chinese. That is what it basically means, no matter whether we can buy land there or not!

   • Sorry LARA , (and anyone else who believes that) you are still DELUDED.. Voting makes NO difference.
     In USA voting is rigged. I would say here too.

     There is going to have to be a MUCH MORE REALISTIC solution for the TRUE strife that NZ is in.

     IE : QUIT FEEDING THE CORPORATIONS !

     1) STOP SHOPPING AT SUPERMARKETS
     2) STOP WATCHING TV
     3)STOP BUYING NEWSPAPERS, RUBBISH POPULAR WOMEN’S MAGAZINES etc
     3)THROW AWAY YOUR CELL PHONES
     4) STOP BUYING CHEAP CHINESE IMPORTS – eg shopping at The Warehouse

     ETC
     YES sorry, but it’s ONLY down to doing these things (yes – TOO hard) that can make any difference.

     BUT a DIFFERENCE they would make very quickly.

6. “The wider game at play here is China’s cold war with America”

   Is there a cold war going on? I’m making no judgement either way. But if there is China has no chance of winning. America is an industrial powerhouse. One american worker is worth 100 chinese workers in terms of productivity. China is just a cheap peasant-driven economy that produces cheap consumerables for westerners. And they’re running out of peasants.

   Back in the 80s or whenever it was Americans were worried that the Japanese were buying America. Then the Japanese economy tanked and they stopped worrying. Same thing will happen here.

   • And back in the 1930’s the Americans were alarmed at the Japanese reverse engineering and mass producing junk which ended up on the American market.

     However if one could call today’s circumstances a ‘cold war’ it is an economic one. In the age of nuclear technology no side wants to fire first because of the guaranteed mutual destruction. Thus we have economic measures to force compliance.

     As for China …it is part of the BRIC nations.

     And strangely I prefer Vladmir Putin over Obama simply because the man talks straight , is dead serious and suffers no fools.

     And he is hugely popular with the Russian people. So hes got to be doing something right.

     Maybe its because he’s sticking it to the west and its New World Order economic plans.

   • Kevin you must be dreaming if you think China could never win against USA .
     Russia has organised an alliance with BRICS countries ,Brazil , Russia, India ,China, South Africa, all big populations with lots of resourses. Why do you think USA is lining up around Russian border countries and in the seas near Russia. USA fears the power of China and Russia,they are trying to intimidate Russia, they have tried sanctions and confistication of Russias money in Europe.
     The BRICS alliance countries are no longer reliant on US dollar they are having a new currency, building universities and other infrastructures.
     Look on the world map and see the size and might of these countries.
     As for calling Chinese peasants, look at the exam results ,Chinese students are always near the top, China is a tech world leader.China will never run out of your so called peasants or cheap labour in abundance.American workers are running out of jobs ,Chinese workers never will.

     • RT News channel had an interesting programme today Cross Talk with Peter Lavelle. It tells from 4 different points of view what they think of America ,one called it “a country in chaos and causing chaos around the world”.
       Another says America is angry that the BRICS are planning an alliance,saying :”America is the one that makes the rules and Russia etc have no business not following Americas rules.” Person speaking for Russia said the BRICS will build their own banks and they will follow the rules of fair and honest banking,America breaks its own rules.
       The line up of provocative military hardware by America around Russia is trying to call Russia’s bluff, while president Putin is quietly doing his thing.All four agreed that Ukraine situation was caused by America. One person from America ,one from London one from Russia, Peter Lavelle is an American working for RT news.The programme may be repeated , check it out .

   • Yep, The US is more likely to be winners, but saying that decades of charter schools, modified fats and coke cola have had their toll on the intelligence of the population. They know this, so are getting into militarised robots to replace people.

     However once climate change hits, like with Katrina, they will find dirty politics doesn’t really work on Mother Nature.

     Key is already building his Luxury Ark with plenty of live exports in his hold.

     He’s a speculator so can bet it each way.

   • I think you misunderstand the situation, Kevin. China might have been a peasant culture in Mao’s day but its a good deal more than that now. True they have filled our shops with cheap Chinese rubbish, but that’s because we are stupid enough to buy it. If they are asked produce top quality stuff, they can.
     It is following the same trajectory as Japan did years ago. I was in England when the Japanese economy was rising. At first we ridiculed the Japanese as mere imitators who could’nt produce original work. Where is England now? And Japan?
     The Chinese know exactly what produce to promote. It is the world’s biggest producer of solar panels. while we in NZ are still stuck with fossil-fuel mentalities. Kevin, you’re wrong.

7. To be followed by billions of sweatshop imports, trees being ruthlessly felled, illegal farming and industrial practices, illicit drug importing, and bribery as a way of life.
   I can hardly wait. This is not racism, this is observation of Chinese culture in action.

8. What’s communism got to do with it? Deregulated capitalism is what’s causing this mess!

9. Where are the masses speaking out AND ACTING OUT ? ?
   Where and when is Labour going to speak out AND ACT OUT ? ?
   Limp in Parliament when they should be bold and assertive putting these idiots up against the proverbial wall.

   These greedy psychopath corporate John Key buddy-club upper 1 % ers are laughing all the way to the bank while we sit on our backsides and allow it to happen. I know I sound cynical but it seems that this country is allowing way too much to happen when we should be out in numbers protesting more and writing more and speaking out more.
   United we are more powerful. Where is the fire in the guts?

   Where is Labour ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? Why can’t Labour join with other progressive parties and form an alliance RIGHT NOW to work together and bring more justice and sanity now ?

   Challenge the idiots in mass.
   Are we (politically) too insular ; fragmented ; scattered and brain washed ?
   Or has apathy and boredom and dead brains taken over ?

   If other folks in other countries can kick out the criminal bankers and stop fracking and challenge and win over Monsanto and E T C . . . . . . . . . WE CAN TOO ! !

   • Hi, I just wanted to say I’m overseas at the moment and New Zealand is NOT INSULAR, in my opinion. We might think it is because we’re so far away from everyone else we rarely get to see their societies in operation “on the ground” – Kiwis, by and large, are quite open in comparison to what I’ve seen the last week or so. NZs very refreshing for a lot of people, I think. (Sorry, just spotted the (politically) bit of your comment so no offense if I’ve misinterpreted your meaning there)

     • Janice, I agree and I do not mean ” insular ” – culturally or socially, just politically.

       We are a grand and wonderful country in so many ways but we have slowly allowed the governance of our country to be controlled by corporate interests and corporate lobbyists and they are running the show more than we the people are.

       I feel we have not payed enough attention to the loss of our sovereignty. They are harming the environment and we are loosing control of our assets and natural resources. We should have a government (by and for) the people, and not (by and for) special interests and foreign investors for the most part.
       I feel that our lying and lame PM is a corporation in disguise of a man.
       Corporate greed is the name of their game and we are paying his salary yet he respects and listens to us about as much as he listens to a woman who does not want her hair pulled.

       Consider checking out the Tavistock Institute and be prepared to be blown away at how long this plan as been going on and how MANY ” words ” that this Institute has coined and what they have and are still doing massively worldwide.

       http://educate-yourself.org/nwo/nwotavistockbestkeptsecret.shtml

       • Yes, this is a bit off-topic, but it does you good to get out of the country every five or six years, I think, even if it’s just a few days somewhere. Getting out gives you some perspective on the place. The whole “does NZ have a culture?” is just a product of being isolated, we have few places within easy reach to compare ourselves to. I think our attitude to “foreigners” and tourists is interested and open. The fact that we actually ask them what they think of the place – this is not common, as far as I can see, and what a great way to make people feel as if they’re actually there and that what they think matters.

   • Labour appears to be the same as National .maybe they are puppets to the corporations the pay is probably good.They will not go against National.

   • No we can’t Blake.
     Have you ever read Gordon McLaughlin’s Book about NZers?
     called “Passionless People”
     And it’s true. NZers are way too passive & feeble
     Remember, NZers don’t like to “complain” or “make a fuss” about anything

     Then, to complicate things further, NZ is now chock full of mass immigrants who came from worse and are only here to get themselves ahead..
     NZ as a nation is SUNK. SORRY. IT’S A FACT.

10. Well lets see.

    Asian migrants don’t commit crime, they don’t assault you as you walk down queen street late at night. They don’t beat their wives. They are polite and respectful when you talk to them. They are under represented in every single negative statistic and over represented in every single positive one from health to education.

    In other words they are an absolute boon to New Zealand.

    And yet we attack this group of immigrants with impunity while ignoring the elephant in the room which is pacific island migration which has a negative impact across the board. If that’s not racism I don’t know what is.

    • Well lets see, Hosea,

      1)You’ve overlooked the fact that Asian immigrants come from –
      a dog eats dog , survival of the fittest, human life has no value less evolved world.
      2) They don’t understand our (former )”fair go” NZ culture
      3) They view us as lazy
      4) They are more than happy to trample us into the ground & take over.

11. Why have wars, when you can simply embrace your enemy or competitor and “buy” him?

    Smart move, I think, by the Mainland Chinese government, they have already won the competition, as too many “Sleepy Hobbits” swiftly wake up when the coins drop into the tray. A deal and a sale is made instantly, and then it is back to sleep, or off on the next plane out, to the Gold Coast, into early retirement.

    I have seen it all, this “patriotism”, that in most only lasts for a game of the All Blacks, and is nowhere to be found anywhere else. Some blabber on about “Kiwi” this that and the other on talk back, but half of them never mean what they say, and the rest would never want to be seen next to John Minto and others at a protest in the street.

    That is the sad situation this country is in, I fear.

12. I agree with a lot of the comments on here. I believe New Zealanders can ‘see’ what’s happening, but need a decent strong leader to show them the way, in protests, in parliament wherever…
    In the Northland bi-election the people saw that in Winston.
    Winston is the only politician in this country that can get away with saying – stop immigration etc etc, without being called racist.
    I have never voted for NZ first as a party, but I will, if this is what it will take to stop this madness. I am happy to strategically vote for the betterment of this country. I am also happy to protest march about this and other issues.
    New Zealanders do care – they just need a way to come together to show it!

    • Absolutely spot on there Kim.

      A non aggressive, but assertive protest. A powerful collective of united Kiwis is what’s needed to create a strong presence of citizen discontent, on the streets AND outside Parliament, to get the message across. We have had a gutsful of being lied to, deceived, inequality, unfairness, corruption etc, at the expense of good, decent ordinary working class Kiwi folk!

      But first we need some forceful leadership to get us there.

      This is where the opposition parties could play their part and REALLY oppose this government, through standing with the people in protest!

    • You are living in dreamland too, Kim, if you naively still believe in the voting game.

      Or that “protest marches” make any difference..

      If you earnestly want to do something REAL, see my comment above to Lara.

13. Chairman Mao didn’t trust politicians or corporations. He trusted his comrades and the revolution but perhaps he was wrong. I used to hear that before the revolution three million Chinese starved to death every year on the streets of Beijing. In the harsh light of retrospection, perhaps Chairman Mao wasted his time. He should have stuck to his bad poetry and swimming in the Yangste. The descendents of those he saved from degradation and starvation are now playing casino capitalism with our housing market with the support of their so called politbureau. If the revolution hadn’t occurred the Chinese would have access to real estate speculation in their own country instead of acting as hysterical dupes of their own regime’s cuckoo colonialism.

    • Archonblatter

      You forgot to mention that Chairman Mao also HAD MILLIONS OF PEOPLE SLAUGHTERED!!!!!

      AND People being slaughtered is STILL HAPPENING in China.
      Not just executions (which are common) ..
      Falun Gung (meditation ) practitioners are ongoing being murdered and their organs sold for transplants.
      .
      Human life has no value over there.

      Do we want that philosophy to infect NZ and set us back a couple of hundred years??

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