Why mass spying revelations are outrageous and when will Key resign?

By   /   March 6, 2015  /   102 Comments

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I’m not sure those who fought and died at Gallipoli did it so NZ could one day spy on the entire Pacific as a stooge for America.

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The right wing response to the incredible investigative journalism of Snowden, Greenwald, Hager, Fisher and Nippert is ‘so what’. Key’s attempt to brush this under the carpet sums up their position, if-our-spy-agency-wasn’t-spying-I’d-sack-them-nothing-to-see-here-move-along style of response that shrugs off all the revelations as a non-issue.

The casualness of the right wing response is aimed at not spooking the sleepy hobbits who went into the election deciding to side and trust with Key, those hobbits are now startled to see all the co-operation in the media and with the next revelations primed for the weekend papers, National and their proxies in the media need to downplay, downplay, downplay.

There’s a reason they need to do that, and it’s because what has been revealed is extraordinary.

America has decided the Pacific is their new friction point between China and themselves to decide who is the global super power, at about the time that strategic move was being decided, NZ suddenly starts sucking up every inch of Pacific Island electronic communications they can and passing all of that straight to the Americans.

This is outrageous.

Using 5 Eyes to spy on specific threats to our country is one thing, sucking up every electronic communication in the pacific and handing it directly over to the fucking Americans is a completely other thing!

Do we understand that?

I’m not sure those who fought and died at Gallipoli did it so NZ could one day spy on the entire Pacific as a stooge for America!

Our Government assists the United States of America in spying on our Pacific Island whanau, our neighbours and friends??? This is what we are asking our soldiers to die for these days? So we can be Americas nark?

Tonga, Tuvalu, Cook Islands, Tokelau, Kiribati, Nauru, Niue, Vanuatu & Samoa aren’t a bloody threat to NZ – John Key & his Government are!

I get the feeling a whole lot of milk powder is suddenly going to not meet the required paper work at a Chinese border.

When challenged on mass surveillance two years ago, Key said he would resign if any evidence came out that the GCSB was conducting mass surveillance…

Key: I’ll resign if GCSB conducts mass surveillance

Prime Minister John Key says he and the head of GCSB would resign if the spy agency were found to have conducted mass surveillance.

He made the comment to reporters at Parliament in the light of assurances that the changes to the GCSB Act 2003 would not mean mass surveillance of New Zealanders.

Asked if he and GCSB chief Ian Fletcher would resign if there were mass surveillance, he said yes.

…well we now have evidence that the GCSB is conducting mass surveillance, so when is Key announcing his resignation?

NZers were conned into trusting and believing Key, he has lied to our faces, he has promised to resign if he got caught lying, and now I’m guessing it will turn out he was lying about resigning if he was caught lying.

Those who voted National or didn’t vote have 3 long painful years to reconsider that decision.

 

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102 Comments

  1. Tiger Mountain says:

    dear leader conveniently slipped out of being SIS or GCSB minister, and wasn’t it someone associated with the office of the Prime Minister that may or may not have resembled John Key that promised to resign; not the current John Key that knows Hager’s material is not to be trusted even though he won’t tell us exactly why?

    our very first quantum PM–able to exist in two or more states simultaneously!

  2. Ike says:

    NZ’s 5eyes mates in Washington are going to have difficulty spinning this even though they must have known it the whole time . The Dutch report into MH17 shows that the plane was shot down by another aircraft. Yay yay USA. it is time to quit an organisation that is supposed to protect us but in reality aids those who would harm us
    http://cassad-eng.livejournal.com/133434.html

  3. Ike says:

    NZ has so far escaped the consequences of being a 5eyes member eg. no sanctions from Russia, probably because it is so small but, as you say Martyn, revelations like this could have a big effect on NZ’s relationship with China

  4. R Atack says:

    ‘or didn’t vote’
    You can’t blame the thinking non voter, as there was no alternative, every politician or want to be is a liar —– see Kiwi Saver.

    • George Hendry says:

      This disingenuous line is aimed at confusing people into believing that no other party is any better, so we might as well stick with with the known dishonest one we have.

      Fallacious, naturally – if a party turns rotten we need to keep getting rid of it, like food past its use-by date, until we find one that isn’t rotten. To cut the crap, not meekly accept it.

    • Dennis Dorney says:

      A ‘thinking non-voter’ is an oxymoron. On second thoughts delete ‘oxy’.

      • Tom says:

        Horse shit.

        Democracy turned out to be nothing more than a mandate for popular authoritarianism. Key is a popular tyrant. Fuck voting.

  5. Ann Johns says:

    He was lying about resigning if he was caught lying. That says it all about the great glorious FJK. He is an american front and he has thrown morals and integrity out the window in order to lick american arse. That’s fine when he did it personally on his way to becoming a thieving money trader but he shouldn’t have been allowed to degrade our whole country. What the hell do we look like now to those countries that voted for us to get a seat on the security council? Like lying bastards is what.

  6. Wynston says:

    “But that was then, not now!”
    What else should one expect as an answer from him?

    • Chch_Chiquita says:

      Maybe he wasn’t wearing his prime-ministerial hat when he said that. Or he will find that Helen Clark did the same.Or something like that.

  7. cleangreen says:

    “I’m not sure those who fought and died at Gallipoli did it so NZ could one day spy on the entire Pacific as a stooge for America.”

    1000% Martyn.

    I was in the army in 1960’s & almost went to Vietnam as a National servicemen.

    Looking back the army was to me the epitome of morality as I grew up as the solders arrived home from WW2 and after ward Korea and felt I was doing my duty as others had done before me.

    If anyone who past thorough my life had known how very bad our liberty, freedom and human rights have now been eroded by this same National Government that was in power then none I believe would have believed this erosion of our rights have been taken from us all.

    This is a criminal Government today and should be tried for treason and corruption of our state and particularly against those who gave their lives and service to fight for our freedom, me being one who was prepared then to give my life for.

    I am ashamed what we have allowed to happen during these years after the passing of my army comrades.

    At ANZAC day I will have to fight to hold back my tears of shame.

    • mary_a says:

      Good one Cleangreen. With you 100% here.

      You won’t be on your own fighting to hold back tears this ANZAC Day.

      There will be a tear shed in this household in absolute shame and disgust on that special day, as I’m sure there will be throughout NZ. Tears for the depths of squalor this corrupt, dishonest, deviant government has brought NZ down to.

  8. elle says:

    The Republicans in USA are agreeing to TPPA and its likely to be enacted very soon , Read Economy In Crisis,Americas Report Daily.

    Once the TPPA is signed and agreed to ,Key wont care about being in government or in NZ,his filthy work for Obama will be complete.

    The unions will be finished to enable the TPPA and all the crooks behind it to flourish without any opposition . Then its home to his vipers nest in Hawaii and a place at the top table and allowed to make more and more money , enough is never enough.

  9. Save NZ says:

    Fantastic article. In particular….

    Using 5 Eyes to spy on specific threats to our country is one thing, sucking up every electronic communication in the pacific and handing it directly over to the fucking Americans is a completely other thing!

    The other little understood thing about mass surveillance is that it is not even good for security, because to trawl through millions of pieces of data, even with computer help is not going to give you clear answers. It is reliant of gathering each piece and then manually making sense of it and then hoping you have it right. It is up to the skill of the analyst who is under no real scrutiny. This is the most expensive way to ‘secure’ the country and taxpayers should have complete transparency of the massive cost of this. I’m tired of the spin around the supposed benefits of mass surveillance. In the case of Monis and Emwazi the intelligence community may have even influenced their radicalisation and descent into terrorism. Monis should have been deported years ago and Emwazi was surveilled to the point he fled the country and became Jihardi John.

    Taking mass data and hacking into private phone calls of anybody from Joe Blogs to Government heads, like with Angela Merkel is both a massive breach of privacy and can not be considered a trustworthy or democratic act.

    At least Ian has resigned but what about Key?

    • mary_a says:

      @ SAVE NZ – good post. Concur with your statements re Monis and Emwazi.

      Didn’t John Key say something along the lines of both he and Ian Fletcher would resign, if NZ indulged in mass surveillance under their watch?

      Fletcher has walked.

      Now Key … ??

      Oh wait … he’s a denier and a pathological liar isn’t he?

  10. wild katipo says:

    XKEYscore.

    JOHN XKEYSCORE.

    The era of the John XKEYscore govt will go down in future history as the era in which this country danced with the most vile , deceptive compulsive liar ever to disgrace our shores.

    I’m sure many in the Pacific Islands community are starting to feel a growing sense of unease with these recent revelations.

    This odious little man has consistently lied on so many issues of major importance to New Zealanders , has blatantly run roughshod over our Parliamentary processes , lied when called to task , downplayed and trivialized important standards of our democracy….

    Truly ….this individual squirms like a maggot when boxed into a corner.

    In fact the term ‘ Maggot ‘ – not even snake – is more descriptive of the little shit than any other literary imagery that comes to mind.

    A filthy little maggot squirming and crawling through the rotting , stinking , fetid carcass that is the coming global government.

    One….would only have to start a compilation of all the lies and deceit that this disgusting , foul , little maggot has grown bloated and repulsive on to see how he has saddled us all with his viscous, sniveling , servitude to his financial masters of the USA and Europe.

    A truly worthless little man . A maggot.

    • cleangreen says:

      Wild Katipo, – 1000%

      We now have a very shady history to fight off, especially if labour split the northland FFP vote & allow the NatZ to continue to reign their terror on us all.

      So Labour will then be seen as a willing accomplice, & can be added to that black era of history also as partners in it all.

      Do Labour want this history to record this?

  11. countryboy says:

    The psychological wall that exists between us Kiwis and our lack of the ability to act to rid ourselves of this pestilence is the real problem here . If a boat load of Gerbils arrived armed with pointy carrots , we’d give up and surrender then get drunk and beat up our lovers .
    What might be the psychological key that will unlock the vault that the MSM has us captive within ?
    We humans need a leader . And we don’t have one . That is deeply worrying . While Andrew Little can stride about the halls or OUR parliament looking very concerned , head down , brow furrowed, he too seems locked up in an invisible prison ?
    Andrew Little should say , in a press release , that he will suspend all Labour Party activity and focus on demanding the resignation of key and his fellow quislings , order a commission of inquiry and demand that the Governor General does something. Anything .
    No other party should countenance spending another day in Parliament with john key or his supporters and in fact boycott parliamentary process, effective immediately, until action is taken .

    • Gosman says:

      Why do you think Andrew Little or in fact anyone in the Labour party or NZ First is not taking this approach?

      • Wild Katipo says:

        Gosman ….about your name….what did you do that causes you to seek privacy by using a pseudonym on this forum ?

        Could it be your a hipocrite when you talk about mass surveillance and the lies John XKEYscore stated last year that mass surveillance wasnt happening on New Zealand citizens…and now the Pacific Island nations?

        Why do you wish to cover your real identity here?

        Could it be that YOU have reasons to hide your identity?…..

        Please explain…….

  12. XRAY says:

    This is the Herald editorial spin on it to the mentally defective of NZ;

    “John Key will not expect too great a backlash from the New Zealand public, either. He will expect that, like him, they take a laid-back attitude to the activities of our spy agencies”.

    Yup, just like our rockstar leader, we are all so laid back about spying. So laid back it could be the new stress relief therapy to lower blood pressure.

    For a newspaper so loyal to the National Party I can’t quite work out why they have collaborated with Nicky Hager to front foot this release.

    • Save NZ says:

      Maybe they are laid back because they are homeless, or about to be homeless because of the growing inequality, so they don’t have the time or money to be up on this issue. With the MSM propaganda many people are divided on this issue.

    • 333 says:

      They ‘front foot’ the release so that they can control the narrative. . .As you said. They tell us relaxed, care-free, easy going, fun fun, beer guzzling, bbq’ing, All Black idolizing, etc kiwis that we don’t care about such insignificant and inconsequential matters as these. The usual I have nothing to hide so why should I be concerned. . .

      As one insightful lady commenter opined on Radio NZ this morning. . .(major paraphrasing. . .like it matter) : “They have a job to do, . . .who cares, its getting boring, (get a life etc)”

      Well. Those people should not be concerned,. . .they are acting in conformity with the program, . . .they are the governments perfect citizen, . . .only concern is on their wallet and their leisure. Integrity, honesty, compassion, thoughtfulness, . . .contemplation. Useless pass times for sulking softies. I’m a true kiwi see cuz i just don’t give a fuck.

      DO NOT THINK. . .DO NOT CARE. . .WHATEVER THEY SAY THEY DO, . . .WHATEVER THEY WANT. . .ITS THE KIWI WAY. . .I mean COME ON!!!

      GET SOME GUTS AND JOIN THE RIGHT SIDE. . .THE NATIONAL SHEEPLE SOCIETY.

      We wont have any change in this country until the wealthy start to lose their wealth and prosperity. What goal is there in life other than to serve mammon (money). . .and reproduce and strive to fulfill each and every desire.

      /Rant

  13. Gosman says:

    People fought and died for any number of reasons at Gallipoli. Very few of them would have even cared about matters of geo-political importance 100 years later.

    • Maama says:

      Gosman you are a pain. GO AWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • Ike says:

      Sadly I think that if those who fought and died in the past two world wars had known they were acting on behalf of bankers and big money, that would have profited whoever had won the war, they would have laid down their weapons or turned them on the financial elite who drive these propaganda driven events. Fortunately today we have the internet so we don’t have to rely on the propaganda mass media outlets . Unfortunately many people still believe the mainstream media. That is why blogs such as this are so important

      • Jack says:

        What a load of rubbish – If you think NZ soldiers would have laid down their weapons for those reasons you are sadly mistaken. My grandfather fought and died in the Pacific to protect New Zealand from the Japanese. Without the protection from the American Marines and other allies the Japanese would have invaded our shores. To get an idea of what they would have done to our population look up the ‘Rape of Nanking’ on google. My great uncle came to a village after the Japanese had been through and found the bodies of the villagers with certain body parts removed. In both world wars New Zealand soldiers fought to protect the lives of their families living in both New Zealand and Britain. My grandfather would never have dropped his weapons because he believed big bankers would profit from the war!

        • Ike says:

          HI Jack The Japanese were subjected to sanctions from the US that restricted oil to their growing country. As a result of this unfair inability on their part to get the “life Blood” of oil to enable their economy to function they launched their attack on Pearl Harbour. Many commentators say that the US government knew this was going to occur but let it happen because they wanted a reason for the USA to be drawn into the war. At the closing stages of WWII the USA dropped 2 atomic bombs on Japan. Many commentators say this was unnecessary as the war had already been won by the allies. I don’t wish to defend the behaviour of the Japanese during WWII which was often undoubtably atrocious and inhuman. Thats kinda the way people get watching their friends and family being dismembered and dying in pain. The whole idea that “humanity” is reserved for “western” people is peculiar if you think about it “History belongs to the victors” Do you imagine there were not terrible crimes vented on Japanese soldiers by allied soldiers.if you do I would suggest you are looking at war through rose coloured glasses. Look at the latest hollywood hit American Sniper. This glorifies the killing of the residents of a country in which the US army has no real reason to be active . Unless you consider protecting the USA’s right to cheap oil a reason. To get back to your response NZ would have had no need to be protected by the US marines if the US government had been more reasonable with the Japanese in the first place. Similarly the rise of Hitler in Germany was because of the unreasonable demands for first world war reparations placed on the people of Germany. Something similar is occurring today with the austerity demanded of the Greek population so that German ,French and British banks can be repaid. The greek rank and file did not greatly benefit from the period of financial excess that preceded the current recession, the Greek elite certainly did but by god the EU wants the general population to pay the bill.

          • Mike says:

            My uncle when fighting against the Japanese in Burma in ww2, told me some of the lads collected Japanese ears. I suppose they were ears from dead Japanese, but I’m not entirely sure.

    • wild katipo says:

      Here’s another one in the form of Gosman who cant see his own neo liberal hypocrisy when its staring him in the face.

      Get rid of that fake online name , Gosman ….if you have nothing to fear nothing to hide…tell us who you really are……or is it …deep down you really DO BELIEVE that privacy matters.

      I guess you do…so long as you can remain anonymous…..and to hell with everyone else, eh , mate?

    • Wild Katipo says:

      Gosman …ahem….You still have that psuedonym…Im beginning to think you actually DO believe in online privacy…..

      So much so that all of what you say about mass surveillance being good is a load of hypocritical lies and red herrings…..

      I think youre not only a blind idealogue but a greedy gold digger…..

      Watch out , Gossie…..their comin to getcha !!

      Better think up a few more pseudonyms cos their on to you Gosman…

      But you dont have to worry now, do you Gosman…them global one world govt types are just a bunch of good ole boys…and pshaw… youd like to have a sausage with John XKEYscore round the barbie , now wouldnt you….

  14. mary_a says:

    Did anyone else notice John Key sweating in an interview on TV 3 last night, while being questioned about the latest underhanded spying revelations in the south pacific?

    His forehead was quite damp and he was extremely uncomfortable, his voice with a faint hint of a quiver in it. He was finding it difficult to smile, instead producing something similar to a grimace, baring his teeth, like a rabid creature about to attack its victim. His eyes even more cold than usual, with a cruel glint!

    Great!

    Look forward to more of the same from him when confronted with this topic, to the extent he is held accountable for his suspect and corrupt activities during his three terms of office!

    Hopefully, this issue will be red hot in Parliament next week, with opposition parties putting the pressure on Key.

    Key is an absolute disgrace and an affront, as well as an offence to all the decent people of NZ and now it seems Pacific Islanders as well!

    • elle says:

      Oh but Key can rely on the speaker to make the topic of spying non negotiable under a suppression order of his making. Or Key will be out of the country or any rabid excuse he can think of .after of course blaming the left for supporting Nicky Hagar and Edward Snowden, who he claims are not credible.
      What do we do about him ,he must be removed from office,NOW!!!
      No good asking Governor General,he just dosnt have the guts to go against the lying bully, the rest of national MPS will say yes to everything ,Key picked them for that ability.No good asking anything from Labour, they wont rock the boat and wont step aside so that someone who does have the guts to confront Key. Most labour leaders don’t have the will to fight, old fashioned blokes that they are. VOTE FOR WINSTON to stop Keys majority,but even he cant stop the TPP they wont have a vote or referendum on it because Key knows it would be a resounding raspberry and a definite no.NZ DO SOMETHING NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE.

    • Wynston says:

      “He was finding it difficult to smile, instead producing something similar to a grimace”.
      His “smile” in which he shows his teeth always looks like a sneer to me!

      • Groucho Marxist says:

        well, they would say that wouldn’t they?

      • wild katipo says:

        ^ Guess Wall believes in privacy online , hence him using a fake name to hide his real identity…..

        Pro neo liberal right wingers always trip over their own bullshit , so , so easily its absurd.

        • Nehemia Wall says:

          [Repetitive. Please do not spam comments with similar comments that you have already posted.- ScarletMod]

          • Nehemia Wall says:

            Well I look forward to you being consistent. My responses are to Wild Katipo’s repetitive posts.

    • cleangreen says:

      Good summary Mary,

      Yes Key looks uncomfortable compared to how I saw him in the Morning breakfast show on TV one.

      He must have realised after the NZ spying allegations story broke that his immediate reaction was far to cavalier and extremely overdone as he said “I sleep easily, and there is nothing here to worry about.”

      He was probably advised by his henchmen that he had slipped up with his loose tongue yet again.

      Key is a dangerous sloppy politician at best, and a loose cannon and very dangerous at worst.

      He never learned the basic principals of the dignity of his office and should never have “Gilded the Lilly” so quickly as he did and lacked diplomatic prowess, that he has yet again embarrassed us all as kiwis in the court of Global public opinion.

      What a disgrace.

  15. Annonn says:

    Its unfortunate, but Mr Key has you caught on a technicality here: he said he would resign if it was found that there was mass surveillance on NZ citizens.

    In fact i would be surprised if this issue is still reported on in a month, the media will downplay this as a necessity for national defence, and in the best interests of New Zealand to have a ‘strong and capable’ spying network.

    This only goes to show how ambivalent the public is towards privacy rights. The “Moment of Truth” truly was a big and important reveal (not only in terms of how deep our ties go with the NSA/5 eyes, but also in terms of John Keys personality/audacity in labelling one of the most important whistle blowers of the internet age as “Dotcom’s little henchman” and a “loser” ), yet ~50% of New Zealanders chose to ignore or disregard this when it came time to vote.

    • elle says:

      How can you be sure 50% voted for Key , he refuses to say what the American plane was doing in NZ,lots of blokes carrying stuff off the plane ,then carrying stuff back on, my pick it was USA assisting in rigging the election,they do it in America time and time again,and John Key would welcome them hes such a cheat and liar.
      The Obama administration wouldn’t allow their plant to be taken down
      before their rotten game was over. Sure many Nat supporters voted, but I know lots that didn’t, Key lies so much why would we believe the result of the election .
      The Herald poll gave 50% to online poll backing Key , Daily Blog totally different,i know more people read the Herald than read TDB, but not all people are stupid , read the comments on the Herald opinion site ,biggest majority are negative about Key.So im picking these people didn’t vote in the mythical 50%.

      • Nehemia Wall says:

        Elle, Key consistently scores in excess of 50% approval rating on a wide range of polls. TDB’s demographic are hardly likely to support National or Key in any measure.

        • Nehemia/IntrinsicValue – Key’s “in excess of 50% approval rating” is meaningless unless you’re a slavish National/ACT sycophant. Hitler, Mao, Nixon, etc, had high public approval ratings as well. So really, what’s your point except to justify his questionable behaviour and mendacities?

          • NehemiaWall says:

            Frank/rumplestiltskin…you misunderstand. I was responding to Elle’s Tim foil hat comments about the election.

            • Wild Katipo says:

              Wall..it seems you wear an even bigger tin foil hat than Elle…

              Whats with the psuedonym on an online forum?…

              Could it be you dont even believe your own garbage about there being no need for alarm about national and international masss surveillance???

              Seems rather quaint you using a pseudonym on a safe online site as this…whats that all about?

              Got something to hide there , Wall?

              Please explain why you feel privacy online is important , Wall…

              • Nehemia Wall says:

                Safe? How do you know? I’ve used my actual name in on-line forums before with consequences I would have preferred to avoid. There are a lot of very odd people out there. How do feel about using your pseudonym, Wild?

                • Nehemia/IntrinsicValue – the difference between you and Wild Katipo is that s/he doesn’t parrot the cliche that s/he has “nothing to hide” when it comers to State mass surveillance.

                  You, on the other hand, do.

    • Blake for truth says:

      It is VERY misleading to continue to state that 50% of NZ’s voted for john key. Far from it. He got 47.04% of the voters who came out to vote and that is no where near 50% of the entire NZ registered voters. Low turn out equals a low interest and support. john key is not as popular nor has as much support as many would like to portray.

      • cleangreen says:

        BLAKE FOR TRUTH.

        Yes and how are we sure these polls are honest?

        They can rig them with source code programing.

        http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcxGGnmRQAs

        I for one would believe that this corrupt administration is prepared to use the untraceable political poll rigging electronic voting system called “Source code” that is used widely around the Globe now.

  16. Brown Under says:

    Some kiwi’s more worried about their morning latte than mass spying – we are fast becoming a nation of “i’m alright jack got my own back”.

    • 333 says:

      Too True!!!

      Everyone living in their own little world, . . .me, me, me mentality and it is only getting worse as we pass through the selfie generation, instant gratification.

      I notice this every day driving on the roads, . . might seem a little insignificant or an irrelevant matter, . . .but on my daily route I would say at least 50% of people omit indicating on round abouts and such . . Just. . .Because. . .

      Anyway. I see we have the usual (mentally ill) suspects here down voting every critical thought. . .Just. . .Because. . .

      Trying to make the willfully ignorant THINK is a thankless and possibly fruitless task. Yet that mentality, . . that ingrained brainwashing to NOT think and just go with the flow/herd mentality is the reason we find ourselves in this position today. . .and the reason the government would like as much information as possible on those of us that DO think and oppose the Nazification of our society, and the NWO system that is being shoved down our throats.

      Welcome to the future. We are all slaves anyway. So . . yeah!

  17. Blake for truth says:

    Glenn Greenwald, Julian Assange, Kim Dotcom and more WERE RIGHT ! ! about John Key and the GCSB. ” Key the Liar” through and through. So many have been duped and believe whatever the media affirms as gospel. Now lets expose our disgraceful pm john (Obama’s little lap dog) key and hold him accountable and get together to challenge his lack of ethics and dismissive elitist rhetoric. It is truly embarrassing for those few ” in the know ” that we have such a compromised so-called leader.

    Deluded National mp’s and naive unaware voters blindly following such a puppet. Bet you can’t wait to retire back to Hawaii now, hey Johnny boy ? Flames are getting hotter, hey johnny boy?

    Parliament Q & A tells it all if you really listen to john key and the rest and how much they seem to care less about the NZ people and our environment. They quickly bow and kiss a ____ as soon as their mega – multi – corporations and the UN and Obama says ” jump ! “. “How high do we jump ?” says Steven Joyce, Simon Bridges, Murray McCully and many more.

  18. jac says:

    Is Key’s daughter under SAS guard in Paris?

  19. Nehemia Wall says:

    “The right wing response to the incredible investigative journalism of Snowden, Greenwald, Hager, Fisher and Nippert is ‘so what’. ”

    That’s pretty much my response too. This ‘incredible journalism’ has revealed that Govt’s across the world, including ours, scan mountains of communications electronically trying to identify nasty bastards who mean ill will to the west. Where is the news?

    • Nehemia/IntrinsicValue – as I said to Gosman, you seem “relaxed” about your party (National/ACT) creating a surveillance state. Would you be still “relaxed” if it were a Labour/Greens government doing likewise? I suspect not.

      People like you would be the first to be screaming “nanny state” if Labour was government.

      Your tribalistic political devotion to your party is seriously clouding your judgement.

      • NehemiaWall says:

        Frank/rumplestiltskin…_the surveillance state you speak of has been put in place by successive Govt’s of varying stripes. If you think this is just the doings of the Nats, you are deluded. Oh and by the way, it is curious that you are prepared to accept the words of thieves (Snowden) and liars (Dotcom). Is it the company you keep?

        • Nehemia/IntrinsicValue – your comments are childish and don’t address the points I made. Derision, by itself, is not a response – unless you have no other response to make?

          By the way, most of the surveillance state has been enacted by National governments. The farcical “Terrorism Suppression Act” was a product of Labour, and is one we should have resisted a helluva lot more. I’ll give you that one.

          All the rest, are courtesy of National – the party of individual freedom.

          • Nehemia Wall says:

            You really haven’t made very many points worth responding to Frank. My point is simply that you support criminals and swallow their claims with barely any scrutiny. If they were attacking the left you’d be lining up to have them shot.

        • Wild Katipo says:

          Wall , Wall , Wall…..the PSEUDONYM !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          WHATS WITH THAT???!!!

          ONLINE PRIVACY ????!!!

          Don t you know John XKEYscores got your number?…

          Yet you still tell us ‘ theres nothing to fear, nothing to hide, nothing to see , so please move along ‘

          Then dont you think using a pseudonym is a little out-of -date and hypocritical ????

          Please explain.

    • Ike says:

      Nehemia, You say “they are looking for mean bastards who mean ill to the West” First off Everyone else in the world who is innocently going about there daily life deserves the same respect and rights as those in the “West”. Secondly the leader of the 5-eyes network, USA, has been caught red-handed supporting and in my opinion conspiring with a regime that deliberately targeted an airliner half filled with those from the “West” in order to advance its aggression towards Russia who up until then was fast becoming a “western ” partner in trade and international citizenship. The USA did this because the neocons who occupy all positions of power in the USA believe that they are exceptional people and that “American capitalism” is the system chosen by history (God) to rule the world. Now you may not give a fuck that these people can kill with drones, false flag events and their endless wars against rag heads, commies, gooks and brown people but there is a police state coming to a country near you if people do not oppose this rampant immorality so relax and enjoy your privileged life in your gated community or wherever the fuck you live

      • cleangreen says:

        Frank and all,
        Just ignore Goosman/Nehemia Wall.

        They sound boringly like the same bonehead trolls.

        We have bigger fish to fry.

      • NehemiaWall says:

        This police state you speak of is a direct response to Islamic nut jobs who place no value on life or freedom. When you and your ilk have the courage to name the problem and stop blaming the west, you’ll begin to understand.

        • So, Nehemia/IntrinsicValue, if I understand you correctly, to preserve our freedom and ways of life from “Islamic nut jobs”, we have to abandon our freedom and way of life and become a police state…?

          Hmmmm… you haven’t really thought this through, have you?

        • Wild Katipo says:

          Love that psuedonym ,Wall me old mate…..

          For online ‘ PRIVACY ‘….perchance?

      • NehemiaWall says:

        “First off Everyone else in the world who is innocently going about there daily life deserves the same respect and rights as those in the “West”.”

        Mm mm, interesting that, because I didn’t claim otherwise. It just so happens, however, that the west is being disproportionately targeted by these thugs.

        • Wild Katipo says:

          The psuedonym , Wall , the psuedonym…..

          WHY ???!!!

          Online privacy????!!!

          Your like Gosman – both of you use a psuedonym to protect your privacy online yet deny there is any need for concern over invasive mass surveillance of the New Zealand populace….

          Are you a hipocrite , mate?

          Or are you so far up John XKEYscores backside you cant your own double standards because of the darkness your in?

    • 333 says:

      I remember clearly The Simpsons Movie parodying the idea that the NSA or some such organization was using mass surveillance against ordinary/every(day) folk. . .They have made many such jokes throughout the series regarding the masons and such practices as stated ^. . .

      Seems the joke is on us. When speaking of someone such as yourself the joke is still a joke. . .It is just an ironic one. Probably the one that the writers actually intended but presumed (correctly so it would seem), . . .that it would be a “whooooosh!!!!”. . .way over their heads.

      P.S. . .wake me up when you have got over this whole left/right duality, divide and conquer strategy and see things ‘as they are’, . ..rather than presenting like this a game. . . with ‘teams’. . .and supporters. . .or as in your case. . .’FANS’.

    • kiwiburger says:

      Hey Nehemia what do you think about ttpa?

      • NehemiaWall says:

        Bring it on. Trade, not aid.

        • wild katipo says:

          And I see your still using that fake name to protect your privacy online……

          Why ?….

          Hypocrite.

        • Ike says:

          Yeah bring it on! Fraudulent banks with access to zero interest money able to buy up whatever they like. Investment bankers manipulating the foreign exchange market. (I sometimes think that the drop in the NZ/US exchange rate was payoff for helping National win the election provided it pursued US friendly policies.) Remember how Goldman Sachs helped the Greek government hide its poor finances by using derivatives so it could join the EU. Goldman Sachs then went on to bet against Greece. This is the sort of shenanigans that TPPA will enable in NZ. Once you lose your sovereignty it is extremely difficult to regain it. Trade is good. The TPPA is a partnership like paying your cleaning lady the minimum wage is a partnership. (NZ is the cleaning lady)

          • Nehemia Wall says:

            Oh dear, the conspiracy theorists are out in force on this one. Read and learn. Trade benefits all nations involved. It particularly benefits developing nations who otherwise would need our aid, which more often than not ends up in the hands of corrupt leaders.

        • kiwiburger says:

          Hahahahaha, yep your an idiot.

    • Wild Katipo says:

      WALLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

      WHATS WITH THE PSUEDONYM ON A PEACEFUL SITE LIKE THIS ????

      PLEASE EXPLAIN !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

  20. Mike the Lefty says:

    Even if it is proved beyond any doubt, Key will not resign because he will twist the argument into a question, something like “but what is mass surveillance anyway? taking an interest in what people are doing, what is so wrong with that?”. And Mike Hosking will answer: “Nothing at all!”

  21. Maria says:

    tell ya what…. the I-M alliance looks pretty angelic compared to these shenanigans lol Hone, Laila, Dotcom and co are the least of this countries problems. Far. Out

  22. Jim Rose says:

    The spying on Pacific island neighbours is where there has been a bloody successionist struggle and successive political instability in PNG, anarchy requiring foreign intervention in Solomon Islands, military coups in Fiji, and assorted corruption, organised crime and drug trafficking in most of the rest.

    All in all, finding out what’s going on before it happen and who is on the take or up to no good in the Pacific Islands seems quite a profitable investment of tax payers money.

    There are two complaints against the intelligence community. The first is that it goes round spying on people who should not be looked at until they commit an overt act. The second comes after any terrorist event where there are demands for public inquiries into the incompetence of the intelligence service because it was not spying on more people of vague marginal risk or who are mostly full of big talk.

    Every time a terrorist act is committed by someone marginally known to the security services, I don’t see anyone on the Left popping up after to say leaving that person of marginal interest free of surveillance was the price worth paying of not having meta data recorded?

    • The spying on Pacific island neighbours is where there has been a bloody successionist struggle and successive political instability in PNG, anarchy requiring foreign intervention in Solomon Islands, military coups in Fiji, and assorted corruption, organised crime and drug trafficking in most of the rest.

      Jim – seriously?!

      Is that what you’re going to go with to rationalise the spying on every South Pacific nation? That is pretty pathetic. In effect, you’ve just described ever neighbour in this region as a semi-failed state. That’s including countries which are peaceful and with no more social problems than our country.

      It amazes me how people like you can justify growing State surveillance by trying to paint a bleak picture that warrants increasing spying at the expense of peoples’ privacy.

      What’s the bet that if Labour was in power, you’d be one of those screaming at the top of your lungs, “Nanny State! Nanny State!!”.

      Well, at least we know what some right wingers are willing to support in their sycophancy of this government.

    • wild katipo says:

      Heres a trick for the ‘Ive got nothing to hide so nothing to fear about mass surveillance’ crowd…..

      Go online and email to all and sundry your emails, your facebook details, in fact your address , landline and cellphone numbers – indeed any thing and everything about you to the world- go on !…..make it viral…

      Then ,…come back and tell us how you feel….did you enjoy the experience of submitting all your private details, your banking details, the sexual conversations you had with your partner , your drug and alcohol habits, that spat you had with your mother the other day??…..

      Do that , report back and then tell us all how you don’t mind total strangers knowing everything about you.

      Til then?….shut the ‘ F ‘ up about your sanctimonious ,lazy , couldn’t care less shit attitudes.

      Its no hoper slack bastards like you who let Hitler come to power.

      And that include idiots like you , Gosman.

    • Ike says:

      Hey Jim I cannot recall a terrorist attack in the Pacific region so what is all this spying protecting us from. The recent incident in Australia was not terrorism but the actions of a madman claiming to be ISIS There was no evidence of any real association. The other Australian arrests, like the ones on the eve of the NZ election all resulted in the release of the suspects except maybe one prosecuted for owning a knife or something. Most of this terrorism hype is generated by official bodies to manipulate the population through fear. Their are many who believe that 9/11, the Boston Marathon and Charlie Hebdo all had US Neocon Government involvement and if you go on line and look at the evidence available it is difficult to dispute. Currently the US Neocon Government is ramping up hatred and fear against Russia. They have no expansionist plans.Why should NZ contribute information to these hateful people. Sure have a spy agency but they must be loyal to NZ first and not the USA or any other aggressive hegemonic country.

      • NehemiaWall says:

        And we never landed on the moon eh? You’re naivety is staggering.

        • Wild Katipo says:

          Erm….the psuedonym , Wall?…could it be that even a fantasiser like you feels the need to protect his/her privacy by using a psuedonym online?……why is that?

          COULD IT BE THAT ALL YOU SAY ABOUT GOVT SURVEILLANCE BEING A GOOD THING IS A LOAD OF HIPOCRITICAL RUBBISH????!!!!!…..

          I thought so…..

        • Ike says:

          No we definitely landed on the moon but if you believe that a skyscraper built of huge steel beams can collapse in the way the twin towers and building 7 did then you are naive.Ask the 2000 or so engineers that want a real enquiry. Why has the US govt banned access to the 9/11 report? Their is a documentary available online showing that the mayhem broadcast around the Boston Bombing was contrived. It includes one victim who was shepherded around for the original scene and was perfectly uninjured. A few weeks later she shows up at a hearing in a cast. Very peculiar. As for Charlle Hebdo. If you recall it occurred straight after Hollande called for an easing of sanctions on Russia. He was bought right back into the US/Nato fold. Apart from the accused boy who was at school who handed himself into police, the drivers licence left in the car, obviously an efficient and skilled terrorist, and just like the miracles recovery of the hijackers passport from 9/11 ground zero, the staged shooting of a police officer, and the “suicide” of a top french cop right when he had one of the most important cases of his life on his plate. You are the naive one
          Lets talk about MH17. The US was desperate to provoke Russia into aggressive actions in Ukraine. It still is. Kiev was crawling with CIA operatives and they needed something to drag a tardy Europe into the “lets get Russia ” gang What happens a civilian airliner has its flight path altered to pass over conflict zone and it is shot down killing around 300 Australians, Malaysians and Dutch and a few others. Before the aircraft hits the ground Cameron Abbott and Obama are accusing Russia of aiding the Ukrainian rebels in its destruction. Russia provides satellite evidence of another plane in the vicinity of the airliner at the time of the murder. USA provides nothing. Kiev provides demonstrably false photos of an alleged Buk missile launcher in the hands of the rebels and also confiscates the Kiev airport traffic control logs.. The BBC and American news media go into full anti Russian mode. The Dutch hold an enquiry that is quickly suppressed. A german pilot says there are obvious bullet holes in the wreckage. The whole thing goes away as it is obvious that they cannot pin it on the Russians and then this week the Dutch report is made available to some relatives of the dead and it clearly states that MH17 was shot down by another aircraft. The Ukrainians were the only ones with aircraft operating in that conflict. Who is the naive one?

    • NehemiaWall says:

      Yep, damned if they do, damned if they don’t. We live in a world of nutters trying to destroy our way of life in the name of their religion. We need to pre-empt the possibility of attacks, or they’ll be flying planes into buildings near us!

      • wild katipo says:

        Hey Laddie ….why do you not use your real name on this forum if your such a believer in no privacy , nothing to hide nothing to fear , ‘trust the govt’ ..etc , etc , etc ???!!!

        Please explain.

      • Nehemia/IntrinsicValue – “Yep, damned if they do, damned if they don’t. We live in a world of nutters trying to destroy our way of life in the name of their religion. We need to pre-empt the possibility of attacks, or they’ll be flying planes into buildings near us!”

        The French beat them to it in 1985. Oh wait, they were supposedly our “allies” weren’t they?

        By the way, do you realise how contradictory your comment is; “We live in a world of nutters trying to destroy our way of life in the name of their religion”?!

        They’re not destroying our way of life – we are, you silly little man. It’s our own government passing laws invading our privacy and enacting suppressive laws.

        I’m staggered you are foolish enough to buy into their tactics. Honestly, you just don’t think, do you?

        • Nehemia Wall says:

          Oh what irony! I remember well the left wailing that our security agencies failed to prevent the RW bombing, and here you are decrying the very actions that are keeping us safe. Oh, and just as a history lesson, Islamic terrorism began long before 1985. I’m not aware of the ‘French’ flying planes into buildings, bombing nightclubs or getting people killed in chocolate shops.

          • Nehemia/Intrinsicvalue – ironic then, that mass surveillance was never able to prevent any of those terrorist attacks. Including the French bombing of the Rainbow Warrior.

            And have not prevented terrorist attacks since.

            Why is that?

            Because mass surveillance is not geared toward terrorism. The “5 eyes” network is geared toward monitoring China and, along with the TPPA, to containing China’s growing economic/political influence.

            Your terrorist “straw man” is simply designed to frighten children like you, Nehemia/IntrinsicValue, who believe everything their political masters tell them.

  23. Kim Dandy says:

    I’ll say it again – ‘yes’ the election was rigged – to much (money) at stake, for those in power here in NZ, USA and China. I’m still holding my breath on the resignation.

  24. Kim Dandy says:

    ….and keep a close eye on Northland. They won’t want Winston stuffing up their plans, hence sending Key up, so when the by-election is fixed, media can say ‘Key’s visit was the key to winning Northland’, or something cheesy like that. Great democracy we have!

  25. Daniel Venema says:

    “..now I’m guessing it will turn out he was lying about resigning if he was caught lying.”

    In for a penny, in for a pound, right?

  26. Dave Rutherford says:

    Whenever I speak to the “nothing to hide, nothing to fear” crowd, their argument eventually breaks down to “the reason I have nothing to fear is it won’t ever happen to me and my mates”.In other words- Us and Them. As long as it happens to someone else they don’t care, and if that person is not one of Us? Well they probably deserved it anyway.
    Which completely misses the point, that once the State has this power, it can be used against anyone.
    With the growing politicisation of the apparatus of the State, it is increasingly likely that it will be.

  27. Funny how hose who say they have nothing to hide are the ones who value their privacy the most – https://fmacskasy.wordpress.com/2014/09/13/nothing-to-hide-eh/



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