Oceania won’t be at war with Eurasian Barbarians – John Key’s doublespeak

1. John Key is a frivolous squanderer who has pretty squandered every advantage New Zealand has that other countries don’t, starting with the opportunity to take a neutral but pro-active role in peace initiatives. He and his government are arguably the most spineless bunch of negotiators New Zealand has had in its corner in living memory. For a so called “businessman” he is actually quite an easy pushover.

   • Well he is peaceful enough having provided gay marriage in NZ, and now wants to help stop gays being thrown off roof tops. And violence and subordination of women is base human behaviour also.

     Sorry, but today won’t be the day he apologises for being male. No, he’s not a pushover.

     • Harriet – I’d be satisfied if he apologised for going back on his election promise not to commit forces to Iraq. https://thedailyblog.co.nz/2015/02/26/that-was-then-this-is-now-26-john-key-will-let-slip-the-dogs-of-war/

2. Big posters of this blood splattered Key need to be posted all over NZ, BIG! People are not seeing through the doublespeak. I just heard Nicky Hagar on the radio putting it straight, lets hope he is given enough media to be heard and counter Key’s bullshit. P.s Put The Daily Blog details on the posters so everyone concerned has a place to learn more, this can’t be sitting right with most people. Education over doublespeak is what is needed to get through, stop Key in his ‘exposed’ tracks. Good old fashioned printing press… and stick them everywhere.

   • Much as I agree with most of the sentiments in this article, I find myself a little queasy about the image of JK covered with blood spots. I’m not sure if TDB should be going this far.

     • Yes, I must agree, this only serves the ones the post is criticising, as they will point this out to the MSM, whose willing servants of mediocricy and lack of research and investigation will then simply judge, too biased, over the top and thus not credible.

       Also the many brainwashed “middle ground” NZers will not be that appreciative, if they come across this post with the bloody picture, and will not bother reading the details.

       Very many are so conditioned, they are dismissing any criticism that seems over the top, even by first glance appearance. So Key and his spin masters will relax, as we continue to preach to the converted and inform the converted, and fail to get the message across to wider circles.

       The masses want chocolate, EFTPOS, infotainment and special offers to buy on the weekend, not hard, painful truths. That is the result of endless commercial and also government fed MSM reporting, that is superficial, and biased, and selective, and thus just adds to the brainwashing.

       Sad really, I wish I had the perfect answer to the problems we face.

3. You can be pretty much certain that if John Key is saying that “our commitment does not mean that we are going to war with ISIL”, then what he knows full well, and really means is this:

   “”our commitment DOES mean that we are going to war with ISIL”

   He knows it, he means it, but he prefers to lie to the public about it because that, apparently, is his modus operandi.

4. John Key is so full of shit at the moment on this subject. He and National have no idea what they are getting us into here and their real reason why, being the US military’s bestest buddies, is pathetic.

   But worse I can see no exit strategy either.

   • It is not true that Kiwis are the “US military’s bestest buddies”. That honour belongs to Aussies. We are merely among their more betterer buddies.

5. I live in Papakura not 5 kms from the Ardmore rifle range. The SAS HQ at Takanini is an equal distance. So what are we to think when a constant barrage of small arms automatic fire is heard this morning? Yep, they’re going alrighty and the way they’re practising, they’re not training others!

6. Spot on Martyn, Kate and Esoteric Pineapples
   ISIS is a banksters wet dream.
   Have no doubt that Keys blind trust has mil-tec stocks that will be doing quite nicely out of the next round of bankster wars and locally NZDF equipment upgrades and replacing whatever equipment/humans we burn through in this war.

   “Money money money….in a rich mans world”
   ABBA

7. You have totally divorced yourself from a critical view of the facts and have become more of a demagogue than an informer.

   To support your argument you cite the Iranian state media (PressTV) in a 10 month old news story which itself doesn’t provide any evidence to back up its overblown claims. And then you cite a scoop article which, if anything, states the opposite of what you claim.

   West Asia (the Middle East) is more than just a collection of equally bad states, there is such a thing as shades of grey you know.

   • How many shades of grey? Fifty? 😉

     • There are nineteen fully recognised states and about a dozen more partially- or unrecognised, so at least that many.

       And I’m not going to let one terrible film stop me using an appropriate metaphor.

8. You propose the solution of cutting funding to ISIS (Which may be too late at this point/impossible to do). How exactly would we go about doing this? There are geopolitical ramifications that have to be taken into account.

   • On the subject of funding…Iraq’s army has shot down two British planes as they were carrying weapons for the ISIL terrorists in Al-Anbar province, a senior lawmaker disclosed on Monday. http://www.globalresearch.ca/iraqi-army-downs-two-british-planes-carrying-weapons-for-isil-terrorists/5433089

     Ex FBI whistleblower Sibel Edmonds has also stated that ISIL is merely a rebranding of Al Qaeda, i.e. ISIL/ISIS is the west’s own frankenstein who are being used for destabilisation of region for greater Israel/US interests.

     So will our troops be helping to fight ISIL or helping them to fight?

9. Great article Martyn Key says we are not dancing to someone else tune Yeah Right!

10. The Syrian problem can be countered by Realpolitik negotiation with the Russians. Currently they are the only effective supporters of Assad’s regime. Their fear is that they will lose influence on one of the key players in the region. Right, so we must accept and even guarantee their interests there after Assad is removed – by them. This will allow the UN to sanction intervention in the area and allow Turkey to save face while getting involved in eliminating ISIS.

    The reason ISIS has been so successful to date is that they have experienced no serious, modern opposition. The Kurds, under-resourced as they are, have been fairly successful, a supported Turkish intervention would be likely win militarily in weeks rather than years.

    Alternatively there is nothing more certain than that a Western-led intervention has literally no chance of success without massive buy-in from all local interested parties. The regional authorities Islamic and ethnic credentials to lead their states would be severely compromised if they are seen as complicit with Western powers.

    Meanwhile, anyone else notice that John Key has started talking about “ISIL?”

    “Not Samuel but Lemuel, say I…”
    (The fast-talking, con-man Pardoner in the Canterbury Tales showing he knows scriptural stuff unavailable to the common man).

    A smug toadying Smart-Ass to the bitter end.

    • Nick, the truth is, the US is in a complete political and strategic dilemma, when it comes to the Middle and Near East. They have stuffed up so big after the 2 invasions of Iraq, of which the first one was somehow justified, and was only a limited advance, to defend Kuwait and Saudi Arabia from threats and aggressions.

      The second war and invasion was this bizarre “coalition of the willing” one, and I remember vividly the year when the western nations were very divided, when also many people went out protesting against any planned war against Saddam’s regime. And it was totally unjustified, as we later learned, with the claims about “weapons of mass destruction” having been total BS and largely made up, based on some speculation and otherwise lies.

      Going back further into history, the Brits, the French and others stuffed up big also, and no wonder there is little trust in that region in any “western” powers, as most also are opposed to what Israel has done and is doing, but the west continues to support Israel, no matter what they do and what lands they occupy illegally.

      Is it any wonder that radicalism has gone rampant in Syria and Iraq? And now we get this BS from Key and his government, about “joining the club”, the club of “fuck ups”, the club of liars and hypocrites, of commercially interested parties, where the governments dance to the tunes of the oil giants and other corporates.

      Obama and his government cannot now talk to Putin and Russian government, as there is the war going on in Ukraine. Putin will not bother talking with Obama about Syria, rather lay down his expectations, and Obama and the US government cannot accept those terms.

      Iran has been criticised, attacked and isolated for years by the US, they still struggle to negotiate a deal on the Iranian nuclear program, and Iran is playing its trumps there now, where they make demands that the US and many western governments do not want to agree to. So Obama cannot really make a deal with a regime they have no good relationship with.

      The US is totally reliant on their remaining “friends” in the region, that are the Gulf states including Saudi Arabia, and especially Saudi Arabia has an appalling human rights record. The US also now supports the Egyptian regime, run by military, while before they hesitantly supported the Arab Spring, and tried to work in some ways with Mursi and his government. But any smallish attempts on democratisation in Egypt have been laid to rest, so the US has decided to support the military again, and the undemocratic, human rights breaking regime there, as ISIS friendly groups are now active in Lybia, threatening also the stability of Egypt.

      I will not cover Lebanon, facing immense internal tensions and pressures, and the above shows, the US are stuffed re Middle East strategy, they are now relying on NZ and Australia, the post UK colonial boys and girls, to support them, and of course some European governments.

      All have no solution, NO solution, as to how to solve the crisis and deal effectively with IS. Iraq is just an artificial state on the map now, it does in effect exist NO longer. The Kurds have their strategy, so do the Sunnis and their fighter groups, and the Shiites hate the Sunnis, as Saddam and his regime were mainly Sunni, and so it goes on.

      John Key has kowtowed to Obama, as Obama is desperate, and will pull New Zealand soldiers into a fight that cannot be won, and blood will flow, I fear also blood of New Zealand soldiers, possibly also of others, as ISIS will find ways to lash out in various places, not just in the areas they control by their fighters.

11. We’re being dragged into a foreign crime orchestrated by the USA G.O.P. and our own pathetic pack of lying, quisling, muppets are selling us out to it because there’s money to be made out of dripping blood and burning babies .

    Any person showing support for our ‘ troops ‘ going there in any capacity other than making peace and offering help indicates a lack of intelligence at best .

    I just saw Yankee-Doodle-Jonky hollering in OUR Parliament that he’s not standing by while I.S. burns Jordanian fighter pilots .

    Where was his hollering when Israel burned, shot, blew up and dismembered Palestinian women and children for no reason at all most recently ? No reason, other than perhaps to hone Israeli urban warfare tactics and to sell weapons and munitions to the latest slaughter about to unfold that he’s pretending he’s outraged by .

    Jonky has to go . Or he’ll be welcoming a U.S. Naval flotilla here to round up and imprison dissenters like us .

    Israeli arms dealers .

    http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/witness/2014/05/lab-20145475423526313.html

12. I find this issue one of the hardest to take a position on. On the one hand ISIS are a very nasty vermin which one wants to exterminate, on the other is the evidence that all previous western interventions have made things worse. Personally I probably still lean towards the “its vermin lets stamp on it” position.
    However John Key and his governments refusal to put an intervention in a foreign country to a vote in parliament is inexcusable and yet another example of the underlying contempt they have for democracy.
    Also I find “The dear Leaders” histrionics on this matter totally unconvincing and yet another example of histories great and good exhorting others to shed blood – one notes that the elite rarely put themselves in the front line.

13. I always watched Seven Sharp to gauge opinion (I realise it is a sort of self-harming), since until Mike Hosking turns on our PM, I won’t believe the tide has truly turned. My theory being that Hosking is all about Hosking, and he panders solely to what he thinks are his fan base, i.e. if he feels his fan base has turned on the PM, he’ll be right there with them to protect his popularity (i.e. paycheck). So what did we get today? A five minute “interview” with the John Key that asked exactly none of the questions that needed addressing, and, after the usual fluff, the opinion pieces of the hosts – airhead Tony Street (seriously) used the time to voice her concern over perceived smaller car parks (presumably because she has just bought a Hummer and is finding it difficult to park???) and Hosking waffled on about NZ entrepreneurship using the Martin Jetpack as an example. Neither offered an opinion on THE story of the day, i.e. the sending of NZ troops to Iraq. I’m sure you can all draw your own conclusions.

    • @ Nitrium . When I accidently catch a glimpse of mike hosking and / or paul henry I think identical twin Ron Burgundy’s .

    • I can already visualise ISIS fighters using the Martin Jetpack to fly about and shoot at the rabbits below, on the green hills of Aoteaoroa, haha.

14. Sad day for Aotearoa. Some comments by Amy Goodman on war
    http://www.democracynow.org/blog/2015/2/6/amy_goodman_honored_with_if_stone

15. On the idea of cutting off ISIS from their financial sources: Trouble is that this essentially means not buying oil from the Arabs any more. This won’t happen because most of us value our expanding economy far more than we value people thousands of miles away being beheaded, burned or flogged to death.

    • Everyone please check out this video and let me know what you think. . .I would especially like to hear the thoughts of those that support this decision. Cheers!>>>

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oMjXbuj7BPI

      • So 2 people down voted my post. . . That begs the question. . . WHY?

        Did you watch the video and disagree with its content. If so what did you disagree with? I know I wont get an answer, just as I know that those that down voted it didn’t even bother to watch the video.

        Such is the ignorance of the majority, and the reason we are even having this ‘discussion’. Ignorant and arrogant folk that ‘know best’. . .yet the know nothing. No facts.

        So yeah. What did you down voters think of the video you thumbed down? Shouldn’t be hard to articulate a REASON!?

16. A very reliable media source in Europe has informed me that in Saudi Arabia there have this year already been 25 beheadings, apparently some for drug related offences, and these are usually conducted “publicly”.

    So when are the SAS and our US and Australian allies going to march into Riyadh, Jeddah and other places in Saudi Arabia, to end such horrific “atrocities”, over which John Key got so over excited in Parliament yesterday?

    ISIS is evil, for doing just that, so why not call a spade a spade, where it also applies elsewhere, Mr Key???

    • @ Mike in Auckland – absolutely spot on there.

      Also I don’t remember Key yelling and screeching across the House in raw gut busting rage each time his kin folk in Israel killed and maimed Palestinian civilians, namely children!

      • If I recall correctly, Israel ‘showed restraint’ for something like 13yrs while it had missles tossed at them almost weekly. And when they did respond with force they took the expensiive option, using missiles that were directed by radar, and loading the missles with just enough explosives to do the job, and not inflict collateral damage. And both options are not required under The Rules of War. That is why the British millitary called the IDF “The most moral army in history.”

        All the while, the otherside can’t even ‘show restraint’ over cartoons.

        • @ Harriet –

          What “otherside” are are you referring to in your final comment?

          Palestinians?

          When and where did they fail to “restrain” themselves over cartoons?

          I don’t remember any Palestinian retaliation over cartoons! They are too concerned trying to survive and rebuild their lives! Besides that Palestinians are made up of a diverse range of religions, Christian being one as well as Muslim.

        • They didn’t show much restraint when they marched in there and pushed out the Palestinians (and others) to occupy land that was not theirs for the taking . . . but I suppose that is a “different” story.

          • That’ll be the polite Israeli’s that you are talking about who boarded internationally backed ships carrying medical supplies to Gaza.

            The gentle, kind commando troops killed several of the ships supporters during their raid.

            How many others died as a result of Israel sealing off all access to Gaza’s coast with their naval blockade?

            The Israelis are not tolerant neighbours. They have been aggressively on the wrong side of the fence illegally for years now.
            Why can’t they piss off back to the area that was given to them?

        • There are many “most moral fighters” being trained in the bedrooms of our youth these days, playing interactive computer games involving endless shooting of well aimed, guided high-tech missiles, never missing their targets.

          With drones, not all that perfect I admit, the US and other forces are already using high tech missiles all over the Middle East, to hit targets, and according to your logic they must be the “most moral” fighters, who guide them to their targets. Sadly those “most moral” fighters seem to miss again and again, so innocent kids, wedding parties and so get “taken out”, somehow, as “collateral damage”.

          I am waiting for the SAS running a recruitment campaign, to recruit many of your younger “most moral fighters”, who have already some “basic skills” to fight ISIS and other evil doers, in the “most moral way”, like with drones, medium to far range missiles and what else there is.

          “Most moral” must also have been the bombing of Hiroshima, I suppose, the target was well hit, and the “evil” Japanese enemies were taken out in large numbers. No US American got their hands “dirty” doing that “clean hit” there.

          The IDF is using such high tech as I mention further above, and to call it “moral” is a bit rich, I fear, it is still part of the Killing Business, full stop.

    • Would you rather be beheaded by ISIS or incinerated by an Obama drone? Which method of killing is less evil, in your opinion?

17. john ‘rambo’ key doesnt need support, he will do it himself, he doesnt even need to be on the front line himself, he’s just going to send other peoples children to get shot up, Im sure hes pretty relaxed about it being a hero and all, not like the gutless wimps in the other partys

18. I find it hard to believe that our Prime Minister can declare war without the approval of his own cabinet or parliament??? Defence Act 1990 says Governor-general can raise armed forces – is there another Act we should look at?

    • @ John Key Truther –

      I think Key got the approval of his Cabinet, no doubt under threat of a nasty fate beyond their imagination befalling them, if they didn’t!

      I say this because I find it difficult to believe ALL National MPs agree with Key in his decision to take NZ into a conflict zone.

      What is needed is someone with expertise in the legalities of war and conflict to explain NZ’s position here, other than that involving defence of sovereignty, which isn’t the case in this situation, because prior to yesterday, NZ was not under threat of attack. Now with Key’s undemocratic decision, I’d say that could change rapidly!

19. Rambo Key will salivate when the body bags come home.

    He will use his MSM prowess to again brainwash us all into the “glorious battle for our fatherland” we are now engaged in.

    Just as Hitler’s Minister of “Enlightenment in 1939 also did as they invaded Poland.

    Yes Key is becoming a tyrant and dictator just as we saw happen in the 1930’s.

    How much can the people bear before the pendulum swings against Key and his crooks, as it did with Tony Blair over the last campaign against Iraq remember Blair’s words?

    “Saddam Hussein’s regime is despicable, he is developing weapons of mass destruction, and we cannot leave him doing so unchecked.
    “He is a threat to his own people and to the region and, if allowed to develop these weapons, a threat to us also.
    “Doing nothing is not an option … Our way of proceeding should be and will be measured, calm and thought through.”

    Like Desmond Tutu wanted Blair tried for crimes so should Key & co be tried for crimes against the NZ people for dragging us into a war that should never be one.

    Just remember Obama said during his first pre election speech that he would move away from Global conflicts and personally embark on an era of consultation and not confrontation. Yeah right

    Just look at his offensive attack on the Russians and the Ukraine, he is pushing us into conflict with them also.

    War mongers all over the place it seems.

    http://www.thewe.cc/weplanet/news/europe/uk_terror_state/blair_wmd_claims.htm

20. Another point. Doesn’t this decision of Key’s to take NZ into an international conflict, require the approval and signature of the Governor General?

    Or is Key able to bypass democratic process to keep favour with his US buddies?

21. Unusual to see the Prime Minister doing angry. Slow to anger? He hasn’t seemed all that angry over the four months since the decision to send the troops happened.

    He reminds me of Keith Holyoake who was forced by the Americans, as a member of ANZUS, to send a contingent to Vietnam. He later admitted that he really didn’t want to send anyone (who would have guessed we had a peacenik in such high places). He actually initially sent a tiny medical team. (Mission creep eventually expanded the contingent).

    My point is, if John Key is really that angry, why he isn’t doing more than the bare minimum he is boasting of. What he is doing sounds like a recipe for pissing of both ISIS and the Americans in one cunning weasel.

    You might also expect that he would have taken the bare minimum of interest in ANY of the minutiae of the deployment.

    (Did anyone else give a hollow laugh as he struggled to answer a single question – on Checkpoint last night, I think – about security, what might allow the troops to open fire, the mission, the goals, how to measure success, how to get out, how negotiation with the Iraqis is going and on and on as he fumbled out a carpet of flannel and fudge. Masterly!)

22. Three reasons for NZ not to send troops to Iraq
    • It won’t work. If the objective is to eliminate ISIS in Syria and Iraq there has been no proof that NZ joining the US and Australia in a training role will help. Rather the prospect of only 100 trainers making any kind of tangible difference in such a conflict would be laughable if the consequences weren’t so serious.

    • Violence begets violence. If we support the US in its war in the Middle East this will mark NZ as a target of future terrorist counter-attacks. There is an organisation formed with the very intention of being utilised in situations like this to create a united global front against threats to innocent civilians by armed forces. It’s called the United Nations and NZ recently became a member of its Security Council. Rather than sending troops to Iraq, NZ should be using diplomatic and economic measures to undermine support for ISIS.

    • It’s undemocratic. Only a minority (48%) of New Zealanders support the move. The majority (52%) don’t support a deployment or haven’t been convinced it is the right move. If those numbers sound familiar that’s because National only got 48% of the party vote in the 2014 election, the larger 52% of votes going to other parties. So we have a government who the majority didn’t vote for trying to implement a plan that the majority don’t want.

    To summarise, we have a plan that won’t work, being implemented by a government without mandate, which will heighten rather than diminish our chances of being subject to a terror attack.

23. ” . . . .Telling NZers that our troops will be behind the wire isn’t much security . . . . ”

    Agreed. Especially when there’s no actual wire to be “behind” anyway.

    Its just a metaphorical fiction dreamed up by some “Whirling-Dervish-like” spinner in Wellington (or maybe across the Tasman).

    A fiction dreamed up to give the voters a false sense of security – in other words yet another form of general misinformation designed to mislead the NZ public. Something this Government excels at.

24. So, hang on a minute.

    Could someone tell me who these allies are? Are they the same ones that did nothing when French Government agents committed state sanctioned terrorism against the Rainbow Warrior, and by virtue of it being in New Zealand waters in a New Zealand harbour, against the nation of New Zealand? Are they the same ones in an outdated Cold War era military alliance that was set up to contain the U.S.S.R.?

    Not that I would support an alliance even if it were in the 21st century, but this is like expecting Windows 95 to function perfectly on a computer connected to the internet today with whatever passed for virus protection back then. It ain’t gonna work.

25. Slightly off topic sorry, but regarding the picture of John Key, what is so bad about drone strikes? I don’t understand why drones are singled out. Maned fighter jets are used far more often to conduct air strikes, and the weapons they use have much larger warheads, producing more colateral damage and dead civilians. Thanks.

    • Guys that was a question not an opinion. What’s with the down vote?

    • To address your question, drone strikes are considered bad due to the degree of distance they place between the attacked and the attacker. They allow both a strike on an opponent and no risk to the life of the attacker, this is considered dishonorable and allows a degree of cognitive dissonance unheard of in times previous.

      Essentially drones controlled via joystick from a base hundreds, if not thousands of kilometres from their strike zone separate the act of killing from the killer allowing them to avoid facing the consequences of their actions more easily.

      There is also the matter of their extra-judicial use, in other words launching drone strikes across borders with no legal sanction.

      Don’t worry though, DARPA is working on the next wave of AI controlled killer-robots, I shit you not. So, feel free to be concerned about them instead, they really will be bad news. Completely independent machines designed to patrol and kill based on programming decisions made in a computer lab. Just for veracity’s sake, here’s a link;

      http://www.newsmax.com/SciTech/robots-artificial-intelligence-DARPA-Aiko-Chihara/2015/01/21/id/619833/

      • Unmanned combat vehicles are welcome from a military standpoint as they are simply the best way to kill people, where applicable. Compared to legacy systems, they are cheaper to manufacture, use much less fuel, safer for the operator, and are more precise. Of course they will be misused (extra judicial use, etc.), but i don’t think that will be any different from the misuse of soldiers, jets, etc.

        I don’t think killing people from afar is dishounerable. If you are justified in killing someone, it makes no difference. A soldier doesn’t shoot a person up close because it is hounurable, he does it because the person needs to be killed, and shooting them gets the job done. Likewise, a drone fired missile simply gets the job done. The only difference is the operator canot claim to have risked his life.

        I’m not sure how this cognitive dissonance is a bad thing, are we concerned about the drone operators’ mental health, or somthing else? (I had to look the term up, I’m probably out of my depth here)

        One benefit of robots is they are disposable, perhaps this will encourage governments to use force more recklessly?

        I know a lot about weapon systems but not much about politics, and law, thanks for the answer.

        • James. I would be grateful if you would watch the video I listed above and give me your thoughts about it!?. . .Same with everyone else who reads this thread. It is only 20 minutes long, surely we can spare 20 minutes/attention span/T.V time out of 1 day for an issue of such importance.

          I would be surprised if even one person who has viewed these comments has watched that whole video, and that has a lot to do with the bigger picture of why we are in this (generalized) mess (imo).

26. Remember we are heading over to the fuck up that we were all told was ” Mission Accomplished” …………. All the anti-war ‘fools’ were told to apologize after such a quick and easy ” Mission Accomplished”

    The wisdom of Bush and Blair with their ” shock & awe” had won their “crusade” and rebuilt a safer world ………..

    They lied then ………. and Key is telling us lies now.

    Gordon Campbell has highlighted how the most effective way New Zealander could help in the fight against ISIS ….. by donating to the Kurds who are presently fighting them on the ground with some success is probably illegal………..

    http://gordoncampbell.scoop.co.nz/2015/02/11/gordon-campbell-reluctance-to-treat-iss-enimies-as-friends/

    “For months, the underfunded, relatively poorly armed Kurds have racked up victories against IS in northern Iraq, and in Syria. However, some of their fighters are linked to the Kurdish PKK, which – well over a decade ago – was added to the UN’s list of terrorist organisations, under US pressure at the time to placate the previous government in Turkey, in its internal battle against its persecuted Kurdish minority. ”

    So helping the Kurds who are fighting Isis is not allowed because Turkey had them labelled terrorist.

    And Btw it is also from Turkey and Saudi Arabia that Isis get its funding and support ……….. our Allies.

    On a lighter note John Key and Mike Sabin have had a baby together …. see the wee fellas photo https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=606309239470278&set=a.122938834473990.15984.100002736218472&type=1&theater

27. re Drone strikes still kill about 25 innocents for every target hit …… and they often ‘ double tap’ which means killing helpers who are giving first aid after the first explosion …… re ‘crazy horse’ wiki video

    Spare a thought for the children living under these things 24/7 in countrys which the u.s.a has not declared war on .

28. that should be ‘ crazy horse helicopter ‘ for those who wish to google.**

    Warning it shows graphic murder .

29. What Key fails to explain to NZ is how ISIS have emerged from the desert and look like spec ops with new hiluxs, weapons, tactics and posing a threat to the entire world. And the Iraqi Army after years of US support and training still look likes Dads Army.

30. Just imagine if ISIS were a Western- backed proxy ‘army’ then the following would make sense:
    No threats against Israel, or even mention of Israel.
    ISIS Toyota convoys travel with impunity in broad daylight without fear of aerial attack.
    No evidence of ISIS casualties such as bombed out vehicles and dead terrorists.
    No video evidence of actual beheadings of hostages.
    ‘Jihadists’ from Western countries are able to travel to the Middle East without difficulty despite the multimillion dollar spying and security apparatus.
    Someone is paying the airfares and accommodation costs for those traveling to join ISIS without detection.
    That’s just for starters.

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