I had no idea that Pundit was even still going, but apparently it is and a tongue in cheek comment about Josie Pagani has motivated her enough to decry me as abusive and a vilifier.
Normally I’m only really abusive and vilifying to the fact 270 000 children live in poverty, corporate welfare replacing social welfare, the war on unions, the rise of inequality, deep sea oil drilling, the decimation of worker rights, user pays in education, selling assets, tax cuts for the rich, the elimination of public broadcasting, beneficiary bashing and the mass surveillance and increase of police powers, but for Josie, she feels me calling Guyon Espioner a ‘neo-liberal’ and her a ‘Fox News Democrat’ is a terrible demonisation of her and evidence of the cruelty and evil intent of my good self.
Bless.
As someone who has faced social media barbs, I can understand the defensive lashing out, so let me explain. Josie, I call you a ‘Fox News Democrat’ because every interview I see you in, you end up agreeing with the inherent right wing bias of the host and even the other guest right wing commentator. Sometime I can’t tell who is supposed to be the left wing opinion in your panel appearances. Take for example your latest comments on Labour’s desire for gender equality in political leadership, again you side with the narrative given to you rather than challenge it and articulate a counter left wing narrative. Are you honestly suggesting that blue collar fathers will just accept that their daughters should be second class citizens in their own country? Explaining the values behind policy is how you win, not hiding and staying frightened of the argument and with Cunliffe as leader, he can articulate the values inside that policy in a manner which is empowering rather than as defeatist as you came across on the issue.
But I digress, because this is not an attack on Josie, merely an explanation of the use of the ‘Fox News Democrat’ term.
Josie notes recently I had an unfair outburst at Russell Brown and Giovanni Tiso, where I mistook their usual condescending comments about me on twitter as accusations of anti-Semitism rather than just a debate between them about how stupid I was. Silly me for being so sensitive. I note from a well placed source that Scoop accidentally used the same image years ago, but no denouncements from Tiso or Brown then – again, I digress, because as belittling as Tiso is, as sanctimonious as Brown is and as precious as Pagani is, they’re not the political enemy.
My new years resolution for 2014 is to not argue and bicker with my fellow comrades of the wider left whanau, because I know who the real target should be – this Government and their right wing allies destructive policies that are gutting our egalitarian country.
When someone as well renowned for friendly fire casualties as Queen of Thorns is calling for a wider unity on The Standard, it is a sign burying hatchets within the left requires far better effort than it is currently receiving.
I intend to uphold my end of that responsibility in 2014 by focusing my fire and blows on this Government because in an election that will be as close as this one will be, the frontline is everywhere and there is no place for idealogical fratricide.
“My new years resolution for 2014 is to not argue and bicker with my fellow comrades of the wider left whanau, because I know who the real target should be – this Government and their right wing allies destructive policies that are gutting our egalitarian country.”
Well said, Bomber. This is something which should apply to all of us.
Fighting for an egalitarian society is just plain wrong, whichever of the two definitions of the word you are referring to.
If you egalitarian in social standing, you obviously believe that the caregiver who supplied Codys to a 9 year old or a habitual violent offender deserve the same level of social status as a self employed, law abiding, god-fearing family man. Or maybe you mean an economically egalitarian definition in which, through a punitive tax system, the state removes the economic advantage the same family man has diligently and carefully built up over the years. Either way, you appear to favour state- sanctioned confiscation of hard earned and rightfully owned material wealth and social respect in the name of a spiteful petty agenda based solely on envy.
Workers, rubbish collectors, welfare mothers, bosses, accountants, nurses, Drs, the self employed, beneficiaries etc etc – they are all important in the structure of society – each have a role to play that keeps that society going, and each have a right to enjoy the combined harvest from that society in the forms of universal health care, education, law and order and human rights – selfishly proclaiming what is yours while ignoring the inherent societal privilege that got you there seems like tacky and churlish luck egalitarianism Mike.
Mike, you are the sort of person that drives people to create egalitarianism. The problem in society is not economic inequality (its a symptom that becomes an issue), the real issue is ethical inequality. Some people like you for example have the original personal deficiency.
Forget material and economic status, the real reason our society has issues is because of what is between your ears and in your heart.
Not sure how you arrive at social “status” in this discussion. Equal rights is surely the issue. I don’t think egalitarian ever equated to anarchy.
Noun : egalitarian – a person who believes in the equality of all people
Adj. : egalitarian – favoring social equality; “a classless society”
MIKE –
“If you egalitarian in social standing, you obviously believe that the caregiver who supplied Codys to a 9 year old or a habitual violent offender deserve the same level of social status as a self employed, law abiding, god-fearing family man.”
That comment alone disqualifies you from being taken seriously. And by making such allegations re a “caregiver” having done that, while clearly not knowing the background to it, you are a highly judgmental, divisive and uncaring person, who I personally have no time for.
Indeed, I cannot feel “equal” to anyone having such thoughts. It is your thoughts and opinion that leaves a huge gaping abyss between us. But then again, we have freedom of thought and expressions, that is why we here put up with you, while Kiwiblog or even that Whale(s)oil blog, they swiftly attack, down-vote and ban such strongly dissenting comments.
I make the ‘allegation’ regarding the caregiver supplying the Codys because the boy, on being asked where he got the drink, replied “my aunt” while a girl he was with remarked “he’s allowed”. Now that doesn’t sound like the sort of thing a responsible caregiver would do, does it?
On the contrary, I care more than you could ever imagine. It just makes me angry that someone with a responsibility such as that of a caregiver could selfishly abuse that privilege.
From the mouths of babes aye? Whether this really happened should be looked into more before proclaiming their word as TRUTH in public.
@ Mike – “god fearing”?!
What supernatural deity are you invoking to validate your worldview?
And why doesn’t your worldview stand on it’s own merits, without invocation of the paranormal?!
I can understand your argument. But iv spent a considerable amount of time in jail. Sometimes for crimes i didn’t even do. So be leave me their are innocents in jail. But to then treat them as a second rate citizen would only further an injustice that’s been imposed apone him by a state that’s now putting people in jail for not paying parking tickets. Everyone should be equal. Or maybe Maoris should take a leaf out of your book and start treating Pakihas like second rate citizens for the crimes of our father
“punitive tax system … the economic advantage the same family man has diligently and carefully built up over the years … state- sanctioned confiscation … hard earned and rightfully owned material wealth and social respect … envy.”
What you’re really saying is: Inequality is earned, inequality is justice. Egalitarians are concerned with punitive state-sanctioned economic systems that allow the hard-working CEO to earn dozens of times as much as her hard-working cleaners. Yes, a progressive tax regime can go some way to (very)partially offsetting the inequalities allowed and encouraged under our present economic systems. But that’s only ever a secondary ambulance-at-bottom-of-cliff solution, not the central goal of thinking egalitarians.
(oh, by the way, it’s not ‘envy’ to complain about injustice in economy/society, any more than it’s ‘envy’ for you to complain about injustice in taxes)
Almost everyone, left and right wing, agrees that honest work should receive honest reward (and lack of honest work should be penalised). The difference is egalitarians acknowledge the injustice in the CEO’s wages compared to the cleaner’s wages, or the fact that you can make more money manipulating numbers on a computer screen than actually producing a good or service, or the fact that when a poor person has no property and a rich person has multiple properties, the poor person has to pay the rich person to live. Egalitarians seek to identify, analyse and prevent these injustices… to create a truly fair society where if someone has a nest egg, it really is from their hard and wise work alone. And if someone is poor, it really is because of their stupid decisions alone.
You, however, pretend (against all evidence) that this fair world already exists. You pretend there is no injustice in the society or economy (just in taxes) and that any inequalities that exist are due to the personal choices and merit of the individuals affected. This is 100% ideology: exactly what the capitalist system wants us to think to hide its injustices and win our support so that capitalism can function smoothly. It has absolutely no basis in observable fact – here’s one piece of research showing that: http://m.esr.oxfordjournals.org/content/17/2/81.short
Are you saying your a god fearling family man?
Unfortunately Frank, this message does not seem to have got through to all members of the Left.
A post parodying The Daily Blog and its editor, Martyn Bradbury’s declaration of a truce with Pagani by conservative Right Leaning Labour member Scott Yorke has been reposted in full at The Standard.
In his parody of Martyn Bradbury’s remarks, Scotte Yorke at ‘Imperator Fish writes; “But for now, people, let us all unite. Your disgusting attitudes, your demented political views, and your purely Nazi ideology don’t matter to me, you despicable worthless scum, because we all want the same thing: victory for the left in 2014.
Scott Yorke puts a line into Bradbury’s mouth saying, “I also won’t be making any attacks on the pond slime over at The Standard,”.
Though obviously a satirical statement put into the mouth of Bradbury by Yorke. In the real world there are no grounds for it. Putting this statement in Bradbury’s mouth is not even vaguely something the real Martyn Bradbury would say. But it seems not everyone agrees.
‘The Standard’ writes: “It is nice that he has included the “pond slime over at The Standard” in this vow.”
As far as I can recall, not even in jest, has The Daily Blog editor and author, Martyn Bradbury, or any other writer at TDB ever engaged in sectarian attacks on The Standard, either satirically, or in earnest.
That The Standard “NOTICES AND FEATURES” has chosen to repost this satyrical attack on The Daily Blog in full, in my opinion, says more about the insecurities and “compulsions” of ‘The Standard’, than it does about anything about ‘The Daily Blog’ or Martyn Bradbury.
http://www.google.co.nz/search?q=First+they+ignore+you+then+they+laugh+at+you&client=safari&rls=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=WRnTUsLRLaaYiAfGxIDICw&ved=0CEEQsAQ&biw=1203&bih=622
In my view ‘The Standard’ need to lift their game and recognise the veiled conservative sniping posed as parody by ABC supporter Scott York for what it is.
http://imperatorfish.com/2014/01/07/my-ordeal-a-diary/
http://imperatorfish.com/2013/09/10/hard-left/
That’s going to be tricky because the Left is infested with traitorous Machiavellian maggots burrowing into the hearts and minds of the likes of you to destabilize and confuse and it’s that tactic which will get worse as the election draws near .
That’s why I personally like to use the Dark Side / Light Side context .
Left / Right is so confusing and abstract and certainly until shearer got the boot it was almost impossible to tell who was who .
The worst thing one could say about josie pagani is that she’s boring . As boring as the beige paint on the houses of the cringing middle class .
I dunno about a truce with Pagani. I hear her on the radio apparently representing me, and then everything she says is offensive to me.
I’ll support a truce if one of two things happen:
1 – She never goes on the radio and never blogs again. Maybe she can pick up a minimum wage factory job for 5 years and see if she learns about the realities of life.
2 – Or she can just claim she is representing the centre-right of politics.
I have nothing against Paganias a person, I’m sure she’s lovely, but she disempowers me and offends me when she talks and writes
My wider left whanau is not wide enough to include the likes of Pagani. I like to know who the class enemies are, and if it means I can’t be reasonable like Pete George, I can live with that. I had no problem in recognising Douglas and Prebble as not being of my whanau, even though they were Labour ministers. My attitude towards someone like Chris Trotter, for example, whom I consider to be on the right of the whanau, is much different from my attitude to Mike the intellectually deficient above, whom I consider well outside whanau boundaries.
“The left” – and its true spokespersons – are left to be found yet, in the mainstream media of these present days!
The main bastions of “left” thinking, debate and discourse is instead shown and found on forums like The Daily Blog and The Standard (plus a few others).
The mission must be to reach the wider public, to make them aware, that the “mainstream media” is not the “real media” anymore, and that it is losing its right to call itself “mainstream”.
Once the public has realised this, has made smart decisions and refocused, we will be half there to win the election later in 2014.
Let Panini (sorry Pagani) – and those of her ilk – stay and linger by the wayside, while we pass them, and move towards realising the better future we aspire to (which has nothing to do with said, abused term of a “brighter future”).
You play into the hands of the rightwing fascist National party…
I guess the news media like to get left representation they feel are palatable for them – Pagani being the most palatable to them. I always remember her deferring to Boag on Q&A and asking if Boag thought what she was saying was correct. So this person is representing my views? God save me. Under this fascist dictatorship of a government who work for their US masters and have NSA to massage the out pouring of news disguised as ‘good news’ where no one questions why the news is so good, whether in fact the news is really good and why the polls are high when people are genuinely hurting, pissed off and so many children live in poverty – we have Pagani to represent us where her main grief seems to be whether her friends can afford to buy houses. Affff! Bring on Hone I say.
Marc, Wini, Ovicula – this summarises my thinking on Pagani as well, and articulates what I related to in Bradbury’s ‘FOX News Democrat’ comparison. I don’t want to be represented on ‘the huddle’ with Larry Williams and Cameron Slater by someone who defers to plutocracy or mildly disagrees with it but affirms that we want the same thing, but by going about it differently. I do not want the same thing as the plutocracy and its useful idiots.
“My new years resolution for 2014 is to not argue and bicker with my fellow comrades of the wider left whanau”
Haven’t you just broken this already?
The “left” whanau are very good at burying hatchets, usually in each other. It is in the genes.
I am sure the “right” whanau also engage in internecine warfare. They just hide it better.
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